Clearly, CAP discriminates against the BBDUs. ;D
For ABUS:
Quote from: CAPR39-15.1.1.2. T-Shirt. A standard Desert Tan short or long-sleeved t-shirt will be worn under the ABU coat. Unit commanders may prescribe unit designation emblems, subject to the approval of the wing commander, not to exceed 5 inches in diameter, in cloth or silk screen, worn on the left side of chest. Logos may also be placed on the back of the t-shirt with the approval of the wing commander.
For BBDUS:
Quote from: CAPR39-15.2.1.3.1. Men. A black or tan short or long-sleeved crew neck t-shirt will be worn under the CFU shirt. Unit commanders may prescribe unit designation emblems, subject to the approval of the wing commander, not to exceed 5 inches in diameter, in cloth or silk screen, worn on the left side of chest.
Two things:1. I find it odd that a tan shirt is allowed to be worn with BBDUs.
2. You may authorize a logo for the back of the tan t-shirt worn with ABUs, but not BBDUs?
What say you? Any reason not to allow the same for BBDUs? Think that's just something they overlooked?
Quote from: Stonewall on July 23, 2021, 03:43:58 PM1. I find it odd that a tan shirt is allowed to be worn with BBDUs.
You can wear the desert tan T-shirt under the FDU now, ABUs have always required it, and woodland BDUs are done, so it would be a bit odd to retain the black T-shirt as unique item for this uniform. Maybe that's the thinking? I don't know.
I don't think anyone else is wearing desert tan T-shirts as a uniform item now though (OCP undershirt is coyote brown) so I guess we're going all-in on "former USAF uniform items that are not being made any more".
I'm sure the logo thing is just an oversight.
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 23, 2021, 03:54:10 PMQuote from: Stonewall on July 23, 2021, 03:43:58 PM1. I find it odd that a tan shirt is allowed to be worn with BBDUs.
You can wear the desert tan T-shirt under the FDU now, ABUs have always required it, and woodland BDUs are done, so it would be a bit odd to retain the black T-shirt as unique item for this uniform. Maybe that's the thinking? I don't know.
I don't think anyone else is wearing desert tan T-shirts as a uniform item now though (OCP undershirt is coyote brown) so I guess we're going all-in on "former USAF uniform items that are not being made any more".
Yes, I know the ABUs have always required it, and I wasn't referencing the Flight Duty Uniform (FDU), unless you were just mentioning it to mention it. I'm just saying, the Corporate Field Uniform (CFU), more commonly referred to as the Blue BDU (BBDU) allows the tan (sand) shirt to be worn as an undergarment.
OCPs require the "Tan 499" undershirt, that's the official color/terminology, not coyote brown.
Quote from: Stonewall on July 23, 2021, 04:03:51 PMunless you were just mentioning it to mention it.
No; I'm mentioning it to point out that the latest changes have eliminated the need for wear of the black T-shirt on
all uniform combinations and that it would have been odd to retain it as a unique item for the BBDU uniform.
As such it does not seem odd to me that "a tan shirt is allowed to be worn with BBDUs" as you originally stated: it is in fact now consistent across uniforms.
Quote from: NovemberWhiskey on July 23, 2021, 04:28:22 PMQuote from: Stonewall on July 23, 2021, 04:03:51 PMunless you were just mentioning it to mention it.
No; I'm mentioning it to point out that the latest changes have eliminated the need for wear of the black T-shirt on all uniform combinations and that it would have been odd to retain it as a unique item for the BBDU uniform.
As such it does not seem odd to me that "a tan shirt is allowed to be worn with BBDUs" as you originally stated: it is in fact now consistent across uniforms.
Gotcha. I have yet to see anyone wearing a tan shirt in BBDUs so I hadn't noticed the change in 39-1. It doesn't bother me, I just think the contrast between navy blue and tan is pretty significant. Makes it easier for consistency's sake, just didn't anticipate that change.
The only thing worse in appearance than a tan shirt under the CFU was
a white shirt under the CFU.
On one hand, encampments can now issue a single color shirt with no concern
about which uniform a member might wear, on the other, it's going to look terrible.
Quote from: Eclipse on July 23, 2021, 04:41:19 PMOn one hand, encampments can now issue a single color shirt with no concern
about which uniform a member might wear, on the other, it's going to look terrible.
As part of a Knowledgebase question I submitted about ABU vs. CFU - Activity/Encampment shirts (and hats) can only be worn while at that specific encampment/activity. Once it's over, that shirt/hat cannot be worn with a uniform again.
You might submit a Wing/Region supplement to change that, but as written that's how NHQ is seeing it.
Quote from: wacapgh on July 23, 2021, 08:32:10 PMAs part of a Knowledgebase question I submitted about ABU vs. CFU - Activity/Encampment shirts (and hats) can only be worn while at that specific encampment/activity. Once it's over, that shirt/hat cannot be worn with a uniform again.
That's in reference to non-compliant color shirts that some activities issue under the guise
of "identification" or...something.
No one going to take issue with a color-compliant shirt worn under a field uniform shirt, which you can't see anyway.
But then again I wear white socks and starch my field uniforms.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7LDSM77v/come-and-get-me-copper.jpg)
Quote from: Stonewall on July 23, 2021, 04:37:22 PMGotcha. I have yet to see anyone wearing a tan shirt in BBDUs so I hadn't noticed the change in 39-1. It doesn't bother me, I just think the contrast between navy blue and tan is pretty significant. Makes it easier for consistency's sake, just didn't anticipate that change.
Saw it last week at encampment, and - while it is allowed - I'm not a fan. At the end of the day, it looks like someone with poor laundry skills wearing a white shirt a'la 2004.
I'll stick with black as long as it's allowed.
Slightly off topic, but I wonder why the powers that be didn't authorize a matching dark blue T-shirt for the BBDU?
It would match as well as a black T-shirt (if not better) and would have looked okay with the BDUs when the dark blue tapes became approved.
Quote from: shuman14 on July 27, 2021, 07:09:24 PMSlightly off topic, but I wonder why the powers that be didn't authorize a matching dark blue T-shirt for the BBDU?
It would match as well as a black T-shirt (if not better) and would have looked okay with the BDUs when the dark blue tapes became approved.
Have you tried shopping for blue T-shirts? There's about a billion shades of blue out there.
Black is a bit easier to find.
Quote from: PHall on July 27, 2021, 08:12:28 PMHave you tried shopping for blue T-shirts? There's about a billion shades of blue out there.
Black is a bit easier to find.
True enough; there's shades of black as well.
Depending on the number of times washed my black t-shirts are shades of charcoal now. All are clean and fully service-able.
Quote from: Stonewall on July 23, 2021, 03:43:58 PMQuote from: CAPR39-15.1.1.2. T-Shirt. A standard Desert Tan short or long-sleeved t-shirt will be worn under the ABU coat. Unit commanders may prescribe unit designation emblems, subject to the approval of the wing commander, not to exceed 5 inches in diameter, in cloth or silk screen, worn on the left side of chest. Logos may also be placed on the back of the t-shirt with the approval of the wing commander.
Nobody noticed you can wear a patch sewn onto your T shirt?
Quote from: wacapgh on July 23, 2021, 08:32:10 PMAs part of a Knowledgebase question I submitted about ABU vs. CFU - Activity/Encampment shirts (and hats) can only be worn while at that specific encampment/activity. Once it's over, that shirt/hat cannot be worn with a uniform again. You might submit a Wing/Region supplement to change that, but as written that's how NHQ is seeing it.
At that point it becomes "Organizational Clothing" which can be worn anywhere a uniform is not required - which is actually quite a lot. You just don't wear it in conjunction with uniform pieces anymore.
The biggest violators I saw were actually region & national staff college polo shirts worn by base staff members at exercises. But there won't be any more of those now.
Quote from: shuman14 on July 27, 2021, 07:09:24 PMSlightly off topic, but I wonder why the powers that be didn't authorize a matching dark blue T-shirt for the BBDU?
It would match as well as a black T-shirt (if not better) and would have looked okay with the BDUs when the dark blue tapes became approved.
We switched to black t-shirts with the woodland camo BDU's in the mid-90's, so when BBDU's came along they simply adopted what we were already doing. Black was also allowed under all of the flight uniforms, so at an activity you could give out a black t-shirt and everyone was covered. Likewise, they now allow sand for the same reason, but we've never had an authorized blue t-shirt so no reason to start now.
Quote from: Capt Thompson on July 28, 2021, 12:20:30 PMQuote from: shuman14 on July 27, 2021, 07:09:24 PMSlightly off topic, but I wonder why the powers that be didn't authorize a matching dark blue T-shirt for the BBDU?
It would match as well as a black T-shirt (if not better) and would have looked okay with the BDUs when the dark blue tapes became approved.
We switched to black t-shirts with the woodland camo BDU's in the mid-90's, so when BBDU's came along they simply adopted what we were already doing. Black was also allowed under all of the flight uniforms, so at an activity you could give out a black t-shirt and everyone was covered. Likewise, they now allow sand for the same reason, but we've never had an authorized blue t-shirt so no reason to start now.
No disagreement with any of that, but the sand colored T-shirt under the blue BDU just looks wrong. Not as bad as slide on shirt rank worn on a raincoat, but still wrong.
Quote from: Dwight Dutton on July 28, 2021, 03:43:15 AMQuote from: Stonewall on July 23, 2021, 03:43:58 PMQuote from: CAPR39-15.1.1.2. T-Shirt. A standard Desert Tan short or long-sleeved t-shirt will be worn under the ABU coat. Unit commanders may prescribe unit designation emblems, subject to the approval of the wing commander, not to exceed 5 inches in diameter, in cloth or silk screen, worn on the left side of chest. Logos may also be placed on the back of the t-shirt with the approval of the wing commander.
Nobody noticed you can wear a patch sewn onto your T shirt?
I have several shirts from Air Force units that have their unit patch embroidered on the shirt.