Eyes on a dress right dress

Started by xray328, April 13, 2016, 06:04:30 AM

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xray328

We were "discussing" if, on a dress right dress, your eyes look 90 degrees or 45. Is it head 45, eyes 45 for a total of 90 with your eyes looking directly at the guy next to you or head 45, eyes 45 both locked together forcing you to use your peripheral vision? The reg just says head and eyes at 45.

I was taught to look at the guys nose next to me, but I'm seeing otherwise now.


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abdsp51

Have you consulted the drill manual?  They taught this in basic....

lordmonar

Head 45 degrees you should be looking with your eyes to get you alignment.   Not looking at some ones nose.   

Really!  I don't understand why people have to take things to such extremes. 


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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Tim Day

Quote from: abdsp51 on April 13, 2016, 06:14:15 AM
Have you consulted the drill manual?  They taught this in basic....
Since the OP quoted the drill manual almost verbatim I'm speculating that OP did in fact consult the drill manual and was asking a clarifying question.
Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander

abdsp51

Quote from: Tim Day on April 13, 2016, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 13, 2016, 06:14:15 AM
Have you consulted the drill manual?  They taught this in basic....
Since the OP quoted the drill manual almost verbatim I'm speculating that OP did in fact consult the drill manual and was asking a clarifying question.

I can assure you he did not quote the manual verbatim...

Tim Day

Quote from: abdsp51 on April 13, 2016, 12:50:11 PM
Quote from: Tim Day on April 13, 2016, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on April 13, 2016, 06:14:15 AM
Have you consulted the drill manual?  They taught this in basic....
Since the OP quoted the drill manual almost verbatim I'm speculating that OP did in fact consult the drill manual and was asking a clarifying question.

I can assure you he did not quote the manual verbatim...
Hence the "almost"  ;)

Here it is verbatim: "turn their heads and eyes smartly 45 degrees to the right"

And what he said was "The reg just says head and eyes at 45." Which is true.


Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander

xray328

I've always looked to get my alignment, but there were cadets turning their head to 45 degrees and their eyes were locked looking straight ahead using peripheral vision while some were actually looking hard to the right at the person next to them. Just wanted to make sure I am teaching the correct way. And yes, I did consult the manual before coming on here (learned that lesson)...just needed clarification since some were doing it one way and some were doing it another.

HGjunkie

You could take it either way:

  • Both the eyes and head move as a single unit 45 degrees
  • Move the head 45 degrees AND move the eyes 45 degrees

Honestly? As long as you're not being obnoxious about trying to stare at the head of the person next to you, shifting your eyes isn't a big deal to maintain proper alignment. If your head is at 45, you're good. Then worry about more important things.
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

Майор Хаткевич


xray328

#9
The cadet in that picture (page 32) is looking hard right.  I know it's trivial, it's just came up last though so I thought there might be a consensus. Not a big deal (at all), thanks.


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Luis R. Ramos

But has the head correctly at 45 degrees. The eyes seem to be at another 45 degrees. May be looking at the sum of 45 + 45, but the head is correct. That would be good.
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

xray328

Right. That was the question, 45 or 45+45.  Again, it's trivial but since it's being taught, let's teach it correctly.  I'm assuming it might be more important in a drill comp situation.


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Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: xray328 on April 13, 2016, 06:13:53 PM
Right. That was the question, 45 or 45+45.  Again, it's trivial but since it's being taught, let's teach it correctly.  I'm assuming it might be more important in a drill comp situation.


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I always told cadets head 45 - eyes 45, makes a 90.


The idea is to look "right", but since the head only goes 45 degrees, the eyes must also go 45 degrees.

xray328

Thanks, that's what I was taught as well.  Last night the cadets were staring off into space, defeats the purpose. Regs aren't clear here though so it's tough to back up.


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Luis R. Ramos

I always have taught it as eyes staring at the same heading the head goes. No additional 45 degrees. They do not need the additional 45 degrees to use their peripheral vision to see the person on their right (or to the left in case of eyes left).
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Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on April 13, 2016, 10:16:14 PM
I always have taught it as eyes staring at the same heading the head goes. No additional 45 degrees. They do not need the additional 45 degrees to use their peripheral vision to see the person on their right (or to the left in case of eyes left).
Peripheral vision alone wont work.

Luis R. Ramos

Moving head at a 45 degree angle without moving the eyes another 45 degrees? It worked on the 20+ parades I have attended...

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Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

Eclipse

#17
Humans have a central cone of vision of about 3°, anything outside of that degrades significantly, to the point where
the average person can perceive an object's presence, without accuracy in regards to what it is, at somewhere around 60°-80°
peripherally, and can perceive with fair accuracy at about 30° (to either side, with variations based on eye health).

With your head turned 45 degrees, you should be able to accurately perceive the presence and location of the person next to you in ranks
without difficulty, as that gives you a perceptible view that is nearly to the marchers right or left (45° +~30°).

In other words, you can perceive the presence, location, and movement of the person next to you with enough accuracy to react accordingly.
You would not, however, likely be able to see or even perceive, the next one over and back from you person to your 4-5 o'clock or 7-8 o'clock position without turning your head further in the respective direction.

*edits to clarify

"That Others May Zoom"

stillamarine

Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on April 14, 2016, 01:13:26 AM
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on April 13, 2016, 10:16:14 PM
I always have taught it as eyes staring at the same heading the head goes. No additional 45 degrees. They do not need the additional 45 degrees to use their peripheral vision to see the person on their right (or to the left in case of eyes left).
Peripheral vision alone wont work.

SDI SSgt Brown, DIs SSgt Senft, Sgt Young and Sgt Hernandez and Sgt Lorance would disagree with you. I remember vividly what happened when my eyes were not facing the direction my head was facing.
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

HGjunkie

Quote from: stillamarine on April 14, 2016, 01:19:46 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on April 14, 2016, 01:13:26 AM
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on April 13, 2016, 10:16:14 PM
I always have taught it as eyes staring at the same heading the head goes. No additional 45 degrees. They do not need the additional 45 degrees to use their peripheral vision to see the person on their right (or to the left in case of eyes left).
Peripheral vision alone wont work.

SDI SSgt Brown, DIs SSgt Senft, Sgt Young and Sgt Hernandez and Sgt Lorance would disagree with you. I remember vividly what happened when my eyes were not facing the direction my head was facing.

Well, for one... this isn't the USMC or MCRD.
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

stillamarine

Quote from: HGjunkie on April 14, 2016, 01:28:39 PM
Quote from: stillamarine on April 14, 2016, 01:19:46 PM
Quote from: Capt Hatkevich on April 14, 2016, 01:13:26 AM
Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on April 13, 2016, 10:16:14 PM
I always have taught it as eyes staring at the same heading the head goes. No additional 45 degrees. They do not need the additional 45 degrees to use their peripheral vision to see the person on their right (or to the left in case of eyes left).
Peripheral vision alone wont work.

SDI SSgt Brown, DIs SSgt Senft, Sgt Young and Sgt Hernandez and Sgt Lorance would disagree with you. I remember vividly what happened when my eyes were not facing the direction my head was facing.

Well, for one... this isn't the USMC or MCRD



Maybe not. But having served in three branches, plus being involved in CAP for almost 30 years (with some breaks) most (not all) of the drill manuals are the same.
Well, for one... this isn't the USMC or MCRD.
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

HGjunkie

I'm inclined to agree that the basic drill is the same, but the interpretation of 2903 can be taken either way. And in the end, unless you're doing something like NCC, it honestly doesn't actually matter if everyone is doing it the same way and it looks correct.
••• retired
2d Lt USAF

Майор Хаткевич

#22
So...I was starting to waiver, thinking that MAYBE I interpreted it wrong (wouldn't be the first time!).

Then I went to the drill manual:


Quote3.8. Eyes Right (Left) and Ready Front. The commands are Eyes, RIGHT (LEFT) and Ready, FRONT. These commands may be given at a halt or while marching. The preparatory command and command of execution are given on the right (left) foot while marching. On the command RIGHT (LEFT), all persons, except those on the right (left) flank, turn their heads and eyes smartly 45 degrees to the right (left) (Figure 3.6). To return their heads and eyes to the front, the command Ready, FRONT is given as the left (right) foot strikes the ground. On the command FRONT, heads and eyes are turned smartly to the front (figure 3.7).


Drill already establishes that at attention you're eyes are looking forward. So why would you need to turn your head and eyes, 45 degrees?


Here's some photos from the web:

kwe1009

I have been in the Air Force for nearly 30 years and spent about 3 years with the Honor Guard and honestly this never came up.  Head goes to 45 degrees and move you eyes as necessary to ensure that you are properly aligned.

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: kwe1009 on April 14, 2016, 03:13:57 PM
I have been in the Air Force for nearly 30 years and spent about 3 years with the Honor Guard and honestly this never came up.  Head goes to 45 degrees and move you eyes as necessary to ensure that you are properly aligned.


Agreed,


It's a very minor point. I keep sitting in my office, turning my head 45 degrees, and going between eyes looking "straight" and 45 degrees from head...sure, both work, but by moving my eyes, I can clearly see to the 90 degree angle from my body, not just "kinda sorta blurry". And I got them Mark 1.1 Lasik eyes.

Luis R. Ramos

Quote
...what happened when my eyes were not facing the direction my head was facing.


Some are saying in this thread "While traveling, head goes 45 degrees right. Eyes get to be another 45 degrees."

This is exemplified by these characters. First three characters represent direction of travel. Second one is head at 45 degrees. Last one is direction eyes are facing after another 45 degrees. In this scenario, the eyes are not facing the direction the head is facing.

/\      /
  |     /    --->

Others are saying in this thread "While traveling, head goes 45 degrees right. Eyes do not need to be another 45 degrees."

This is exemplified by these characters. First three characters represent direction of travel. Second one is head at 45 degrees. Last one is direction eyes are facing without another 45 degrees. And this is having the eyes facing the direction the head is facing.

/\      /    /
  |     /    /
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer