TIGERSTRIKE DF Unit

[Major Lord]

Wingnut,

I don't think Firestorm has made any secret of the knowledge that the principals are all CAP members and are trying to sell to CAP-there is nothing unethical about that per se, unless the people making the purchasing decision in CAP are also benefiting from the sales of products ( self-dealing). I don't know if Bob Miller will be in uniform in Riverside, or actally trying to sell the device, rather than just showing it. I agree that acting as salesman for your own products while flying the CAP flag would be wrong, but we don't know for sure if thats the case. My Squadron's former commander, Lt. Col. Gordon Ziegler, died last week, so I will be at the funeral, but I would love to get a chance to see a Tigerstrike ( and test it) in person. Hopefully someone else with the experience and knowledge will be able to give us an after action report. So far, none of these demonstrations have produced what I would call a credible product review. At Murray Craig's request, I am going to contact the Firestorm office to try to set up a demo for interested people. Will advise.

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

This is why CAP has consistently been in trouble with the USAF over the years.

Cite, please.

Without comment on this situation, that's a strong statement with no backing.
CAP has had relationship issues with big blue, but its not because of our people hawking wares in uniform.

[Major Lord]

Eclipse,

Wasn't there an allegation that a Motorola employee and CAP NHQ member spec'd CAP purchases of Motorola gear, that went undelivered to the field? The question of self-dealing was raised in that inquiry, but I am not sure how it resolved. I remember that there were other agencies investigating.

Major Lord

[Eclipse]

No idea, but unless Wingnut is aware of some pattern of ethics violations in his area, to say that we're "consistently in trouble with the USAF" because of procurement issues just isn't cricket.

[jimmydeanno]

Hmmm...let's take at the route this discussion is going down and how it relates to professionalism and our core values...

A respectful person assumes others operate in good faith, unless he or she has a compelling reason to believe otherwise. The principle calls for CAP members to assume their fellow members are trying to help the CAP mission, not pursue personal gain.

Yep, I think that about sums it up. YMMV.

[Major Lord]

I would agree with you that to say that we are consistently in trouble with USAF over procurement issues is somewhat of an overstatement. "Consistently in trouble"  could be once a decade, as opposed to once a week. Perhaps the modifier "occasionally" ( in trouble with USAF) would have been a better choice of words, but maybe Wingnut has more complete info in this regards than we do.

In the last few years, we have seen CAP members at the highest levels of the Corporation act in bad faith, even perhaps criminally so. A "respectful person"  presumes that others are acting in good faith, but when the situation imperils the whole group, a prudent man will not rely on good faith alone, but on a diligent examination of the facts.

Major Lord

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Wow, that will teach me to get sick and spend a few days away from the computer.

If only CAPtalk were used by more members of CAP...there have been PLENTY of people that have gotten hands on with the TigerStrike, but sadly, it seems none of them are users on CAPtalk.  Perhaps they just don't like drama?  And, of course, if we ask them to set up an account and give their impressions, people will then say "Oh, yeah, another Firestorm employee jumping in here and making fake claims..."  So far as I know, myself and ES Forever! are the only Firestorm employees in the forums.  But, as most of the guys are CAP members, I could be wrong.  I think we're the only two that have posted on this thread, though.

Next Saturday I hope to be handing a TigerStrike to Al Sayre, who I believe has stated he's an engineer, and has a few engineer buddies that also want to see it, and letting him get some time with it.  He would seem to me to be a credible and objective reviewer, especially since he came to us, not the other way around.  After that, I hope he'll pop back in here (I can't see him not) and post his impressions of it.

Not that that will make even the slightest difference to those people that, for some reason, have a problem with Firestorm and wish to do little more than tear down a company trying to improve things, but perhaps it will settle some questions for those with open minds.

[Major Lord]

Jim,

Al Sayre would make and excellent and unbiased evaluator for your product prototype. I am sure you can understand our skepticism; Generally, when we hear about products that are too good to be true, we assume that its a scam. I have not been able to verify that Firestrom has ever sold a single unit of anything to anybody, so the company is unproven. Produce a working product and you will set our hearts at ease.

The Firestorm Website states: "We have become a leading provider of Radio Direction products, technologies, and data for government agencies and professional markets in the search and rescue field" Can you please explain what this means, and which agencies you are referring to?

I have taken the liberty of opening a Yahoo group For those interested in Tigerstrike and Firestorm: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tigerstrike/

Major Lord

[ES forever!]

So here goes....

First, Jim or I am not going to respond more unfounded allegations about the company or the product as it is clear several of you are going to try and kill the thread.

Second, we are here to talk about the technology.... So Al I read your article about the Altoid DF unit you are selling on EBAY for $70. ea. Lets talk about comparing the technology of your Mint Box Unit as it compares to the TigerStike. So how much -dbm does your device have and what fltering are you using?  We have recently discover the LARK filters and are very happy with them, although very expensive. We believe that the kind of filtering and preamp are necessary to achieve the sensitivity that is needed in today's mission.

Third, In the Eagle Call article you admit your unit is for close in work only (Page 3) and is a FM receiver vs the Tigerstirke Digital version (DSP) and of course it is software programmable, the benefit of using the latest technology vs an old chipset.

Fourth, what is the opinion of the group watching this post and what valuse would you place on it, a simple 406 receiver that would decode and display the beacon data. Let me know We have a design meet in AZ next week. How much would you pay for that additional feature.

Well there you are, a technical engineering oriented post

[Major Lord]

Murray,

There is no comparison in the units. My unit had a sensitivity of 119 dBm. Its strongest point was its very low cost, its weakest point, the fixed-frequency operation. I found with a Diamond MAY-1000, it would detect an ELT in LOS conditions at about 8 miles. Naturally, we never have line of sight conditions, else we could see the aircraft wreckage! The FM receiver was so that people could use it with a Doppler direction finder as a tuner-engine, since you need an FM receiver to make that happen. If you are trying to paint me as a disgruntled competitor, you are barking up the wrong tree-I am not in that business. I sold a low cost kit at a loss as a service to CAP people who could not afford an L-Per. My direction finder had the singular advantage of actually existing.....I have no interest in shutting down this thread but it appears to me that your websites' claim is just not true, and your failure to respond to it speaks volumes. I will be more than happy to apologize to you form my skepticism about your product, but someone with credibilty needs to validate and authenticate the unit beofre that happens. I don't believe your product is real, but thats just my opinion.

Major Lord

[ES forever!]

Ok as this is a product discussion, what is it that you think is not real, and then I would be happy to discuss that technology we used to create the feature... Be specific what feature?

[SE_Tigerstrike]

Major Lord...

Which agencies I can't really say, something I know you understand, because you said the same thing in the article you wrote praising your Altoid DF device.  I DO have an announcement I am chomping at the bit to make, but can not make until such time as the purchaser allows.  It WILL be announced, and since this thread has grown to such an overwhelming degree, it'll be announced here as well.

Yes, there HAVE been units sold, and yes, it DOES exist, I have one sitting in a case right beside me, AND have posted pics of it for you to enjoy.  Al Sayre will get to play with it next Saturday, and will give his impressions, good or bad, as he sees fit.  The mere fact that I am not going to ask the company for a client list and post it for you doesn't speak volumes of anything, other than the fact that I am not an idiot.

As for the yahoo group...  Why?  Do you work for us now too and I just didn't get the memo?

someone with credibilty needs to validate and authenticate the unit

So, anyone that has issued an opinion on the TigerStrike thus far automatically has no credibility?

[Major Lord]

Allrighty then:

1) I don't believe that the digital compass will aid in providing an accurate bearing in a design using a wide lobed 2 element yagi design. You may have .5 degrees compass of accuracy, but you won't be able to distinguish a bearing within more than 10's of degrees. Its like putting a laser sight on a catalpult. As far as distinguishing tilt or elevation change with a low-gain, horizontally-polarized yagi 5 feet above the ground, I say.....not!

2) I don't belive that you can significantly outperform the L-per's sensitivity, without allowing your receiver to desense, since the selectivity will be commensurately wider.

3) I don't belive that you will be able to use digital signal processing to any practical end with a 121.5 signal that may be anywhere from a series of intermittent pulses, to a dead carrier, to a full quieting tone swept signal. Its good that its frequency agile, ( so SAREX-ONLY people can play too) but that is actually a deficit, since the front end filters need to be wide enough to pass the entire band of interest, preventing the creation of a tigh bandpass filter to use with your super-high gain receiver.

4) I don't believe that you can increase the range of detection with the limitations of your antenna.

5) I don't belive Ground teams are going to bring laptops into the wilderness and have them work when needed in adverse conditions.

5) I don't belive that a cellular based data link is going to be of any value in actual searches, since its pretty easy to find airplanes without DF gear when they fall in cities.

6) These are all based on the presumption that you actually have a device, something not yet demonstrated.

7) I do believe that you have accepted money as pre-payment on purchases, and that these units have not been delivered.

8) I don't believe that any government agencies have purchased these devices.

9) I do not believe that the Tigerstrike has been Part 15 certificated to be lawfully offered for sale.

Well, I think thats a pretty good start.

Major Lord

[ES forever!]

good that is a start:

Point 1) 

Part A
So you don't believe that a digital compass is a good thing, Sorry you think that, since you are a GTL you know that some of your GTMs are not the best at map reading, so why not provide some tools that make it easier for them to take the bearing. As for the manufacturer of the compass we put in the Tigerstrike, this is their specs, and since is came from a milspec torpedo I am sure of the .1 degree accuracy.

Part B
It is not a wide lobe yagi design, it however a HB9CV which which has a very smooth more pointed front lobe is very accurate, see if you would call Bob Miller as I have been suggested for the last 2 weeks you might get to see one work for yourself. Is your enginering background that has you an expert in see an product and knowing the lobe width, I did how ever notice in the article that you wrote about yourself in Eagle Call you are a PI, suspect of everthing I guess and looking for conspiracies.

Point 2
So let me understand this, you think that our technology using more modern technology chipset and advances in components are incapable of surpassing 20 year old through hole mount components and technology...  This is like saying the IBM XT can never be beaten in speed...... I am sorry this is a completely invalid and unscientific premise.

Point 3
Part A) Perhaps some of the more recent advancements in DSP have past by with out you seeing them. This is a software driven receiver and it has multiple personalities that can be called in based on the type of detectable signal, from carrier to sweeptone. The software package we are using is called freescale, although it is not free it is an awesome and very flexable about how it processes the signal. Clearly I will not discuss proprietary methods of how we do certain things, but I will tell you how we accomplished them.

Part B) I am sorry , you must have missed the demo portion of the website www.fsems.com that showed that we actually have multiple boom/antenna arrays that as specifically tuned to the frequency we are hunting, since all the antenna preamps and filters are built in to the boom, the receiver is frequency neutral until a boom is put in place and it identifies itself.

Point 4) With out actually revealing all the technology we are using, you are welcome to hold that belief however false in reality it is.

Point 5) Once again that is your opinion based on you past history, however with the UMPCs like the ACER One is very rugged as we have learned in the field trials, and frankly many of the GTLs in SOCAL routinely carry their notebooks in the field, once again your experience is limited to you.

Point 6)

Part A) Yes there are places where the cell will not work BUT, there are more place that it is routinely available as the CDMAGSM technology expands, come on now we know there are lost of crashes that happen within cell coverage, now you are just being silly. To suggest that the CAWG DO is not a credible person, well you can tell him that yourself the next time you see him, I suspect he wont agree with if I know Ron Butts.

Part B) I have encouraged several of the CAP and non CAP participants to post their observations after seeing our demos this week. The response I have gotten back is "Why are you being attacked and why do I want to attacked if I say something positive. " So I have no idea why on the first and the second I would have to agree, so we will just have to wait for the weekend.

As for the rest these issues, they  are not technology based and are company confidential, and we are not in a court of law, so I am not guilty if we dont answer to your satisfaction.

[Major Lord]

Murray,

This is all probably moot. Al Sayre will either have a unit to evaluate on Saturday and prove me wrong, or he won't. I would be delighted if your unit performs well. The proof as they say, is in the putting.

On the photos I saw, I did not see the 225 degree phasing line, so I assumed that these were simple Yagis. Thats a good approach.

Major Lord

[ES forever!]

No it is not a moot point, I just blew your arguments to bits based on the FACTS and TECHNOLOGY and you refuse to apologise to the readership as you promised, now I am done responding to your unsubstantiated claims, you have refused to call Bob Miller (909-519-1152 cell in case you missed it earlier) to view one yourself, in your own words, you lack of actions speaks volumes.

I am truly sorry that this thread has had to endure this childish play, we are here to share the philosophy and technology that has made the Tigerstike a great piece of gear. It is not perfect and as all equipment has limitations, but with the users of the Tigerstrike's help we can make it more outstanding than it already is.

We are not here to be combative or offensive, and will not file multiples IG complaints against another CAP member we don't agree with, that would be a misuse of the CAP process in a commercial endeavour. We are here seeking to respond to questions about the technology and use of the Tigertstrike as it unfolds.

I am still looking for input on the 406 receiver part as an addition or whether or not it is a good thing or not...

[MIKE]

Lock.