ALERTING !

[calguy]

All of this technology is great but what's the aversion to a phone call?

In CAWG as an alerting officer, we use the phones and get poor and little response.  We have over 50 ICs in the Wing and I have telephoned at least 10 to 15 ICs with no response within our 30 minute alerting window before we have to turn the mission over to a defult IC.  Those that want to be alerted to a mission seem to always find a way to be in the loop, those that don't use it as an excuse for not wanting to respond. 

[KyCAP]

For the record... I am probably one of the largest geeks on the thread... In the IT business for 15 years now... Can name as many 4th generation programming languages and database engines as most on the list..

I am an IC as well.

EMAIL / TEXT is NOT the ONLY solution.   

If the AFRCC gets to me on the list... Once I wake up from the sleepy haze.. I kickout an email to our wing list server that hits half a dozen agencies and others who "NEED TO KNOW" we have a mission in their jurisdiction ( 2 minutes).  Then I pick up the phone and call the UNIT alerting officer or a Mission pilot and GTL in the right "area".

However, sometimes this takes a while.   An automated tool like:
http://www.universalalert.com/liveDemo/liveDemo.php

Emails, calls at the SAME time until it hunts you down and gets a response.

This should / would alleviate the "call up" process that is normally about 40 minutes of my "loading" the mission to get to mission.

And yes... AFRCC's list for KY are ALL IC's on their Alerting Roster in WMIRS.  Keep up the discussion.. Good information here.

[wingnut]

you guys don't get it!!!

CAWG has a "Mandated Alerting system", it does not matter what the members say, it does not matter how people complain, so "DO AS WE SAY NOT AS WE DO",

and NHQ wonders why people quit

It is a shame that dedicated and 'SKILLED" volunteers are beat down by a system that is broken and no one really cares to fix it.

[Eclipse]

What we don't "get" is how you can have 50 IC's, make 15 phone calls and not find someone to step up, many states have less than 10 total, assign the alert IC, and expect them to do their jobs.

Those that won't aren't on the alert list for long, and aren't IC's much longer after that.

This is volunteer SAR, not "Deal or No Deal".

[RiverAux]

All of this technology is great but what's the aversion to a phone call?

In CAWG as an alerting officer, we use the phones and get poor and little response.  We have over 50 ICs in the Wing and I have telephoned at least 10 to 15 ICs with no response within our 30 minute alerting window before we have to turn the mission over to a defult IC.  Those that want to be alerted to a mission seem to always find a way to be in the loop, those that don't use it as an excuse for not wanting to respond. 

Back when I was doing alerting for my squadron, I probably only left messages or otherwise couldn't contact about 20% of our ES force at any given time.  If you make 10-15 calls in a row without even TALKING to someone, there is a major problem there.  Those ICs are obviously not answering the phone on purpose. 

[isuhawkeye]

Here is an IC's perspective

When I was an IC in CAP I did the following to alert crews of a mission

1.  I posted an e-mail alert on the wing's virtual office.  this alerted the Wing CC, and the LO of the mission.   This also started a thread to archive mission activities.  This also served as an instant alert of the entire wing via e-mail.

2.  I logged on to the wing's text message system.  I would text the alerting officer for the closest three squadrons giving a heads up of the mission.

3.  I started calling unit alerting officers.  This part was often time consuming and frustrating.  If I got pas the unit alerting officer with out a response and a team from a reasonably close unit contacted me based upon my e-mail, or text messages then they got the mission.

I'm sorry that some members were not able to answer phone calls, pages, or e-mails. 

[ZigZag911]

We've been trying to put on "on call" roster (ICs, mission available aircrew & GTs) for years....people would sign up for a given week, standing night of the week, what have you....for some reason volunteer ambulance squads can make it work, but CAP (at least in NJW) has encountered difficulties.

I'm not sure whether it's the utter complexity of our lives or what, but I think something along these lines would simplify life for all.

Are there any wings that have a system like this in place?

[KyCAP]

Bump...

When it rains it pours...

Today I received Logins from the Ky National Guard for www.onecallnow.com and from the Lexington Fayette County Urban Govt for http://www.dccusa.com/communicator-nxt.asp for alerting.

CAPT Morgan and I have been testing with it this evening... Initial results looks like onecallnow.com is a very SIMPLE interface while Communicator!NXT is VERY complex and allows for some pretty neat things like pre-built scenarios and canned messages....  Very cool.

The Wing ES and DO are working with us to build a statewide voice and email alerting system using the latter.

[RiverAux]

Seems to me that this would be something that national should be taking the lead on so that we can get a better price for the use of such services. 

[RADIOMAN015]

Alerting & response, should be part of the overall AF operations inspection & evaluation of Civil Air Patrol wings.
You could even set up a central telephone number that the AF evaluator would sit at & when a member called in he/she would ask for member's ID#, unit of assignment, & than enter time member call was received.

I can recall numerous recalls & reporting in the Air Force.  What was interesting is apparently our intelligence was so good, that most calls start around 0530 hrs in the morning (and in my NCO days, I would track the recall response strength for a 300 member squadron, so my commander would always call me first rather than using the telephone tree, so I had to be sure I kept it going down otherwise nobody would show up ).  Can't recall ever getting a recall at any other time

Most cellphone companies allow relatively short text msgs to be sent to cell phones (as long as they aren't blocked from receiving text messages by the subscriber), that your email program will allow you to send.  Key issue is not to exceed the total # of characters authorized (so you have to determine which carrier has the smallest size msg limitation).

Also I think that ANY alert system should allow the member to include multiple email addresses (e.g. home & work) to also receive alerts.

In our squadron some key personnel have a telephone list of all members (as the comm officer I do) so IF we need to run an alert standby/response 1 or two of us can notify the appropriate qualified members.  That works fine & is staying within the Chain of Command, rather than wing wide systems or even nation wide systems.       

I also tend to feel that with all the rebanding of frequencies that we should consider getting cost estimates for a 1 or two channel monitor/receiver, so that we have an inhouse CAP radio wireless alert system also as a backup.  (using a radio scanner would be fine, BUT there's a limitation about releasing CAP frequencies to members, BUT I would think releasing the GUARD channel & the local repeater channel to those members that have taken OPSEC would work!)
RM

[N Harmon]

Why is it that our communications infrastructure for alerting need not have to meet NIMS standards for interoperability, reliability, scalability, and portability like our command and control network does? Is it because we will never be alerted when the telephone network isn't working?

[RADIOMAN015]

Why is it that our communications infrastructure for alerting need not have to meet NIMS standards for interoperability, reliability, scalability, and portability like our command and control network does? Is it because we will never be alerted when the telephone network isn't working?

I think you will find that each agency is response for their own alerting.  In order to be cost effective some state agencies combine there systems into 1 somewhat fail safe system.  Although, depending upon what disaster actual occurs that may result in response, there's no perfect sytem

CAP is not unique to volunteers not responding.  Many Volunteer Fire Departments have problems during certain times (generally 0700 to 1700 hrs local) of the weekdays to field a fire crews that meet recommended safety guidelines.  You do need for planning purposes to know who IS AVAILABLE versus just a call out to ANYBODY that might be available!

Again system wise, I think that it gets down to the potential of the telephone/wireless telephone not working versus the cost of alternative methods of notification.   My choice would be to keep the notification internally to our radio system with over the air notifications/alerts to very simple alert codes such as ALERT ONE (respond to unit hdqs or you could have Alpha suffixes for specific locations, eg ALERT ONE ALPHA would be squadron headquarters, 1B would be the commercial airport, etc...), ALERT TWO (standby for further alert instructions), & ALERT THREE (this is a test of the alert system 3A would be just to note the time; 3B call your (ES/Comm/Commander upon receipt), etc...
Any internal communications to CAP does not have to be in clear language and can be what we decide.  It's only when you are in interoperability.

Additionally, some agencies such as various state Emergency Management Agencies (key command & control centers) should also be given access to our network so that if we have problems throughout the state in our connectivity they can access & pass the information for us.

Additionally, there's also the possibility of high bird aircraft & the use of such aircraft as the National Emergency Airborne Command Post (NEACP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4 & other high flying Air Force assets (e.g. AWACS) to do an alert.  It would very interesting to condcut and evaluate a radio alert exercise (on a CAP simplex frequency from an asset flying at Flight level 40,000 feet!! 
RM           

[kc2ush]

My company has a "no cell phones during business hours" rule, but I made it clear I'm in CAP and may get called. No problems.

so does my school and i know i cant go on missions during school but my gtl will still call so its on me no matter when

[RRLE]

You might want to look into http://www.phonevite.com/ Phoneivte. I saw it mentioned on a few amateur radios boards. Apparently some radio clubs and ARES groups use it.

They have a 'free service' with limited features, some of which go away after a limited time and a pay service. 'Free' is in quotes since the free service is ad supported.

[sarguy]

cell phone, house phone and pager all go off at 2100.  I am aircrew and never go skulking around in the bushes: for any reason except to walk or crawl away from a downed airplane.  I happen to live where the rocks go up to 13,000 ft and the Sq whose airplane I fly has a rule that no aircrew gets released to fly in terrain that is above 5000 feet at Night.  Makes it pretty simple that we don't respond until first light, so why bother listening to some IC who is not a pilot who wants an aircrew to go into cumulus granite at night to find an errant ELT.  Absolutely no point in putting two or three perfectly good aircrew in harms way in the mountains in the middle of the night.  Sorry, but that is how it goes with us.  I have had five CAP associates killed due to stupid decisions made when things were too dangerous to fly.  I don't intend to join them if I can help it.

Please don't give me that crap about someone may be lying in a crashed airplane waiting for me to find them.  I have two distress finds and there were no survivors in either and both were in the mountains.

Better late than never on a response but some people actually respond to missions, run them and the like rather than tought their 2 whole finds...  Distress finds too?  That's awesome.  I guess that pales in comparison to my 6 in 3 months...  I wish I could be better....  Or the fact that I've been up close and personal with people that walk away alive.  The gratitue on their faces makes the 99% of the deceased finds worth it.  Too bad this is the type of impression I get from California.  Paul, let me know where you are and I'll give the Fire Department a call.  I'll let them know they don't need to respond to any medical aid at your house until first light.  Roads could be wet, lack of street lights perhaps?  Drunk drivers?  All make driving a fire truck into your neighborhood a high risk. 

Make sure you carry a PLB, Sat. Phone and local SO number if flying in California...  No way you'l survive otherwise

[SarDragon]

Better jump off your high horse there. I'll bet that bosshawk has a ton more time on missions than you do. How much time have you spent here in California, on missions or otherwise? What's the terrain like where you are?

I totally agree with his commentary. It is absolutely insane to go looking for a crashed a/c in the mountains after dark, particularly above 5000'. We don't have a lot of flat terrain here, except in the central valley, where it's pretty easy to find crashes. But then, most of our crashes seem to occur in the mountains. Imagine that.

We also have jurisdiction issues here that hinder our responses.