ALERTING !

[oak2007]

I found the alerting methods in California to be somewhat inadequate . The last mission alert was sent out by the IC via email and text at 0500, that if you your cell phone is set up to receive redcap messages . A phone call was made at 0700 to the IC stating the we had a crew ready to go. We were told that the mission was turned over to the Sheriffs Office when no one responded. Did the IC think of picking up a phone!. What is the point of a Wing/Group Alert roster Is this the common practice in other Wing?

[Short Field]

Just finished two separate AFRCC missions today.  We use the WMU pager alert system and a follow-up e-mail to all members to input their available into the IMU.   This works well with one key addition:  You call the squadron commanders and have them get a crew together for the first launch of the day.  The IC also should call and get a OSC and PSC to show up as well.  About the time the IC is starting to open up mission base, he should have crews and OSC/PSC arriving to prepare to launch.   First missions are normally fairly easy to plan.  Once mission base is operational, you can then start planning the rest of the day's activities and check the IMU for people to call in.   The key is phone calls to get a quick launch for the first missions.   We had an aircrew and aircraft ready to launch 1.5 hours after the IC was notificed by AFRCC.   

Relying on computers and pagers doesn't work because not everyone lives on the computer and carries their cell phone with them everywhere they go.  We also saw a few alert pages that didn't reach people for almost an hour after it was sent.

[Eclipse]

Checking...yes, its 2008, the only people who carry email and computers around are the ones who are considered ES assets.  The rest sit home waiting for the phone to ring and complaining no one called them.

Text pages / email alerts are the standard tools in many wings and work just fine.

The vast majority of ELT missions do not involve a mission base, or anything more than an IC and the field assets.

The last mission alert was sent out by the IC via email and text at 0500...A phone call was made at 0700 to the IC stating the we had a crew ready to go.

If a text was sent at five, why did the crew wait until 7 to call in?

[mikeylikey]

I whole heartedly believe in using the phone to alert people. 

PAWG had a mission last night that went out wholly by email for the first three hours.  After no positive responses, I get a call at 3AM asking if I checked my email, and if I was willing to show up at 6AM this morning for it. 

Ya......I may be up until 1AM playing on the computer, but email is checked maybe twice a day, once at work and once in the evening.  Thats about it. 

[arajca]

Here's a good twist...

We use NotifyAll for paging. When I signed up, I was told I could only put my email address in. Appearantly, so were alot of other members. So, when no one is responding to emails sent at O-too-early, the manager of the system decided to stop accepting sign-ups. Now that I have a text account set-up, I can't get signed up to get alerts! And I still hear complaints about no one responding. Go figure.

[Eclipse]

For clarity - my Wing uses both text / alpha paging and email simultaneously.

That covers those with regular cel phones, smartphones / iphones, etc., and regular email.

Rarely does anyone complain about not knowing about the missions.

Also, an increasing number of people only have cel phones, no landlines, so for them its the same device making noise, and if they are not answering the text page, they aren't answering the phone.

[Short Field]

I get a loud beep when I receive a text message.  Not real effective at waking me up in the middle of the night or even hearing it if the phone is in another room (I sleep the sleep of the innocent  ). 

Pagers and text messages are good,  but they are one-way communications with zero feedback - which is not the definition of communications.  A phone call that doesn't get answered (going to voice mail doesn't count) tells the caller they need to call someone else to get what they need.  And I have never gotten woken up by a email. 

By the time I got to mission base today for the second incident, I had two aircrew members ready to go and waiting for us.   Just FYI, our mission base is where the aircraft are located and supports six squadrons.

[JC004]

PAWG has a text messaging system, but it is only an awareness thing and not full activation.  It is a joint thing with PA SAR Council.  It is a thing for certain people, just for them to be aware of possible impending missions, mostly.  It's not wonderfully planned out, in my opinion.  I offered to develop a better way of doing it with a little PHP action, but they weren't interested.  Much like a lot of things I offer to build.  Oh well.

[M.S.]

you have missions in your area?      

cool.  i thought it was a CAP myth for a while...

[wingnut]

what if an alert went out and no one responded

It has happened many times in California, result the mission is turned over to the Sheriff Department.

[JohnKachenmeister]

what if an alert went out and no one responded

It has happened many times in California, result the mission is turned over to the Sheriff Department.

How can you tell the difference?

In CA the CAP dresses like deputy sheriffs.

[AlphaSigOU]

I guess some of us are expecting to live the life of the once-prevalent 'SAC-trained killer' sitting in the alert facility waiting for either the alert horn to go off of the words "FOR THE ALERT FORCE, FOR THE ALERT FORCE... KLAXON! KLAXON! KLAXON!" in the CAP SAR/DR world so we can fire up the 172/182/206/Airvan and bore holes through the sky looking for a downed aircraft. (Or the ground-pounders piling into a CAP van like a SWAT team called to action. The cadinks would eat that up!  ) The sad reality is that it's nowhere near that scenario.

While I'm a qualified MS/MO (among other ES specialties) I happen to live a little too far away from the squadron HQ (about 30 minutes) for me to take part in a crew, unless other squadron members that live closer are unavailable. Centralized alert resource response in Texas Wing is very limited, except for alerting officers to notify ICs to take a mission. Only when the ICs get an ICP set up will the rest of the raggedy masses get called up. By the time we're up and running  we've lost a lot of time.

I wouldn't mind seeing a rotating on-call list of ES personnel based on availability, but again, that's pie-in-the-sky.

[KyCAP]

This is a national level communications infrastructure issue in my thinking.   

I have been trying to work with the Ky NG and one of the larger cities in KY to "borrow" access to their alerting software.   But purchasing changes and security requirements have been tough to navigate...

NHQ could use a tool like Microsoft Speech Server http://www.microsoft.com/speech/speech2007/default.mspx to build a system around e-services data for the bulk of our work..

OR..
There are commercial alerting packages....
http://www.coderedweb.net/

http://www.voiceshot.com/public/urgentalert.asp?ref=uaemergencyalert

https://www.onecallnow.com/emergency/?gclid=CKjkppT00JMCFQMoGgod8EcRjA

Google is loaded with these services now.   A lot of the national "campus" emergencies have created more "attention" to the problem creating a lot of opportunities and thus solutions providers.     Two years ago when I was looking at this issue it was mainly "dispatch" and 'EOC' operations that were only looking for these tools.

[Eclipse]

Pagers and text messages are good,  but they are one-way communications with zero feedback - which is not the definition of communications.  A phone call that doesn't get answered (going to voice mail doesn't count) tells the caller they need to call someone else to get what they need.  And I have never gotten woken up by a email. 

Not in my world, or the world of anyone under about 25, to say the least.

Text messaging is the only way a lot of people communicate these days, and a quick, concise method to call up resources.

[KyCAP]

Eclipse's point is actually addressed by one of the packages that I didn't list earlier..

http://www.messageone.com/crisis-notification/

This is hosted in one of Dell's data centers and handles two-way SMS messaging.

[RiverAux]

Our Wing relies primarily on the IC calling up the squadron and letting the squadron put together whatever crew is needed for ELT missions.  For major missions, it goes much the same way however, an alert will go out over the wing email list to let everybody know that something big is going on and that they should be ready for it.

Interstingly, though the CG Aux doesn't do as as much call-out stuff, they are experimenting with using the CG's "Homeport" web page and associated systems to notify Auxies of emergency situations.  Actually got my first test alert yesterday morning via automated cell phone call and I hit "1" to acknowledge receipt.  Don't know the infrastructure behind it, but seems like a good idea. 

[Short Field]

[Text messaging is the only way a lot of people communicate these days, and a quick, concise method to call up resources. 

Communications:  I send an idea - you receive and understand the idea - I get feedback that you received and understood the idea.

A text message or page is fine if you get immediate feedback that the person you sent it to read it.  My point is that you don't know if the person you sent the message to actually read it (we are talking about Alerting here.  As I said, we use email and the WMU alert pager to ALERT people about an event.  This goes out to hundreds of people and tells them to put their availability into the WMU.  However, for the first sorties and the initial base staff, you had better call and make sure the manning will be there.   You don't want a alert call into the blind and have 20 Scanners, 20 Observers, 20 Transport Pilots, and ZERO Mission Pilots how up.

Granted people under 25 MAY be more into texting and email, but I don't think we could activate Mission Base or launch an air mission in our state just using people under 25. 

   the life of the once-prevalent 'SAC-trained killer' sitting in the alert facility waiting for either the alert horn to go off of the words "FOR THE ALERT FORCE, FOR THE ALERT FORCE... KLAXON! KLAXON! KLAXON!"   

BTDT - got the wings and medal to prove it.        Great job to finish ACSC and get your Masters but other than that - BORING!

[Short Field]

http://www.messageone.com/crisis-notification/

Looks like a great system - what are the costs?

[Eclipse]

OK, maybe there's more clarification needed on the difference between "alerting" and " staffing".

My wing alerts members via email and text paging. The alert says "mission x at area y, need G & A teams, call ###-###-####".   There is an expectation based on proximity to the situation and qualifications over who will respond, and if they don't, calls are made. 

Generally, the issue is too many people calling in but if no one reports in timely, we don't just let the clock run and
cross our fingers - telephone calls are placed to key individuals to insure the mission is accomplished, and some of the stronger units muster and deploy together.

If you're somewhere that throws a page into the ether and then stops, well that's not using the tools properly and I can see why all the frustration.

[notaNCO forever]

 I think sending a text or email is fine for warning that you might be called out. When you are called on a mission you need to get a actual phone call because if you send a text you don't no if they received it until they respond and depending on how good of reception they get that could take a while. As far as emails I want to know someone who checks theres at one in the morning?

[Eclipse]

I think sending a text or email is fine for warning that you might be called out. When you are called on a mission you need to get a actual phone call because if you send a text you don't no if they received it until they respond and depending on how good of reception they get that could take a while. As far as emails I want to know someone who checks theres at one in the morning?

Me, since I'm usually up anyway, and it comes in on my MDA, so if I'm listening to an MP3, watching a video, or just sleeping, the little doohickie on the night stand makes noise, but not enough to wake the whole house.

Email is no longer a "sit down, dial-up, experience" for most people - it comes on phones, televisions, PDA's, all over the place.

As to alerting via SMS, I can tell you that T-Mobile, among others, provide receipt confirmation on SMS.  So you may not know they read it, but you know if it was delivered.

[notaNCO forever]

I think sending a text or email is fine for warning that you might be called out. When you are called on a mission you need to get a actual phone call because if you send a text you don't no if they received it until they respond and depending on how good of reception they get that could take a while. As far as emails I want to know someone who checks theres at one in the morning?

Me, since I'm usually up anyway, and it comes in on my MDA, so if I'm listening to an MP3, watching a video, or just sleeping, the little doohickie on the night stand makes noise, but not enough to wake the whole house.

Email is no longer a "sit down, dial-up, experience" for most people - it comes on phones, televisions, PDA's, all over the place.

As to alerting via SMS, I can tell you that T-Mobile, among others, provide receipt confirmation on SMS.  So you may not know they read it, but you know if it was delivered.

Yea but not everyone can afford the technology especially after paying for all the other things you need to do GT work if CAP was willing to pay for a special phone or pager for each GTL I think it would be a great idea.

[Eclipse]

Yea but not everyone can afford the technology especially after paying for all the other things you need to do GT work if CAP was willing to pay for a special phone or pager for each GTL I think it would be a great idea.

This is not a "special phone", its a cel phone, you know the one that 90% of kids spend their whole lives texting on these days?

As to the cost of equipment, either you want to play or you don't, whining about what it costs is not an excuse, and the amount of gear needed to be an effective UDF guy costs about...zero...since its common items most people have in their possession as a matter of course.

And "GT gear" is not that expensive either - we're not talking about technical rescue here, the average CAP GT can exist quite comfortably for the average CAP missions on gear they mostly already own and what they don't cost about $20.

If you want to start with a Blackhawk Tac vest and work from there, its on you because of the choices you've made.

[notaNCO forever]

Yea but not everyone can afford the technology especially after paying for all the other things you need to do GT work if CAP was willing to pay for a special phone or pager for each GTL I think it would be a great idea.

This is not a "special phone", its a cel phone, you know the one that 90% of kids spend their whole lives texting on these days?

As to the cost of equipment, either you want to play or you don't, whining about what it costs is not an excuse, and the amount of gear needed to be an effective UDF guy costs about...zero...since its common items most people have in their possession as a matter of course.

And "GT gear" is not that expensive either - we're not talking about technical rescue here, the average CAP GT can exist quite comfortably for the average CAP missions on gear they mostly already own and what they don't cost about $20.

If you want to start with a Blackhawk Tac vest and work from there, its on you because of the choices you've made.

I guess your right but there is still the issue of GTL's that need to go to bed early because they get up early and will not hear there phone go off at night.

[KyCAP]

Most of the issues listed here are already addressed in most commercial alerting packages..

For example, go back to the link from AlertFind from Dell.

"AlertFind sends email, two-way SMS messages, and makes voice calls to find people regardless of location, at any time and on any device. It can deliver instructions, ask questions, collect responses and since it can tell if it has reached a live person, it can even transfer the recipient to a live representative or call bridge. Once found, AlertFind provides the tools to manage through the crisis and accelerate recovery."


http://www.messageone.com/crisis-notification/

[KyCAP]

BTW - The FCC is " implementing a nationwide text alerting system for disasters..

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/04/09/fcc.cell.phone.alert/

[KyCAP]

This one has a live demo and pricing starts at $30 per month..

http://www.universalalert.com/liveDemo/liveDemo.php

* - I just ran the demo.. Very cool.

[RRLE]

This is what the Aux is field testing now.

Emergency Communications System

The Auxiliary is investigating a strategy to communicate and manage our geographically dispersed human assets and facilities through the use of a sophisticated platform to alert and manage emergency response.

Global Security Systems (GSS), a commercial enterprise, has approached the Auxiliary with a first responder alert system which would replace our current 'calling tree' method of communications in times of disasters. The system would be free of charge to the Auxiliary, only requiring the Auxiliary to manage the system and use one of our servers to house the software. The Auxiliary Association is looking into an agreement wherein DisasterLan (DLan), 3n, and GSSNet would gift their respective systems to the Auxiliary at no charge.
This 3 part system, from 3 different manufacturers consists of:

o DisasterLan – a core set of tools with functions that include a call center, an incident status board, chat with integrated broadcasting, asset management, financial tracking, resource database, video streaming and security management.

o 3n mass notification system enables one person to communicate with hundreds or thousands of people, anywhere, anytime on any device.

o GSSNet is an FM based alerting, early warning and communication system. The FM system in the United States is highly survivable during any type of disaster and has many other advantages phone services do not have.

Source: Quarterly Briefing To The COMDT USCG Oct 2006 pdf page 11.

From a later Briefing the system is in field trial in 5SR and 8CR.

[brasda91]

As far as emails I want to know someone who checks theres at one in the morning?

I do ......when I'm working nights.   

[JC004]

SMS alerts are really easy to set up by an online system.  I helped a squadron ESO who PMed me from CAP Talk to set one up once.  Basically, we set up a mailing list and I made a PHP form with a password, which his alerting people could fill out.  It had the max number of characters, as well as a little guide on how to format the message. 

He said he really liked it.  It was free and easy to use.  I wonder what I did with the code...

If someone here wants me to help do that again for your squadron, I could see if I still have the code, or I could rewrite it.  Just lemme know.

[ZigZag911]

Texting or paging or whatever is fine for a daytime mission....probably get the word out more quickly....however, it's just not practical for middle of the night ELT missions....there's no substitute for waking people up with a phone call!

Sadly, many have gotten wise to IC techniques and now shut their cells off at bed time!

[bosshawk]

cell phone, house phone and pager all go off at 2100.  I am aircrew and never go skulking around in the bushes: for any reason except to walk or crawl away from a downed airplane.  I happen to live where the rocks go up to 13,000 ft and the Sq whose airplane I fly has a rule that no aircrew gets released to fly in terrain that is above 5000 feet at Night.  Makes it pretty simple that we don't respond until first light, so why bother listening to some IC who is not a pilot who wants an aircrew to go into cumulus granite at night to find an errant ELT.  Absolutely no point in putting two or three perfectly good aircrew in harms way in the mountains in the middle of the night.  Sorry, but that is how it goes with us.  I have had five CAP associates killed due to stupid decisions made when things were too dangerous to fly.  I don't intend to join them if I can help it.

Please don't give me that crap about someone may be lying in a crashed airplane waiting for me to find them.  I have two distress finds and there were no survivors in either and both were in the mountains. 

[♠SARKID♠]

This one has a live demo and pricing starts at $30 per month..

http://www.universalalert.com/liveDemo/liveDemo.php

* - I just ran the demo.. Very cool.

That is really cool!  I like how it has the real time feedback so you know who has gotten the message or not.

[KyCAP]

An alerting tool like this is also very useful when trying to scour for large numbers of ground teams (missing person searches) or large disaster activations that may occur.   

[wingnut]

So after 60 years of doing this why is it such a Problem I see a another failure from NHQ Command of not providing leadership on this, it seems that when it comes to getting things 'Really Done", the decision is regulated to the Wings who do it 51 different ways.

Currently AFRCC calls one number in California and initiates a lengthy game of "Lets find an IC who is answering the phone,  if the AFRCC calls Texas, the AFRCC must find an IC. surely there has to be a better way!

The Alerting system should be a COMM asset, comm includes Telephones too, Oh wait we do have a COMM section don't we, but there is not really any communication in CAP is there? I mean on a Archer Mission in Arizona last year my CAP radio (And the Plane from New Mexico) could not work in Arizona.

OK, here is a possible solution; Since we are a National Asset, then National HQ should take the Lead on this, instead of each State spending $30 to $60 dollars per month x 50 minimum $18,000 per year.  for $500/ Month AFRCC and/or NHQ could access  a CAP national computerized alerting system, one number for each state.

California; 1800-goo-pink
New York; 1800-goo-kosh
Texas;        1800-goo-bush
ETC, ETC
Instructions:
                  1. Press; "0" to initiate IC call up
                  2. Press; "1" call up all Mission pilots" (or Alert Crews etc)
                  3. press; "2"call up all members in State (Aliens are Approaching)
                  4. Press; "00" " Calls all Members" (Maj. Gen. Peneda is coming Back)

any number of variables can be used, and the IC can initiate the State call up, not AFRCC, but the NHQ could do it as well or AFRCC if NHQ was bombed or incapacitated due to high Winds (Joke). And lets keep it real, CAP can only Field maybe 20% of the mission Pilots for a real mission.

As for the  "if it is appropriate!" , or " when is it appropriate?", well that is for another thread.
Just one more Barb

I see nothing wrong with flying a DF mission in IMC at Hawthorn or Compton at 3am. I mean if you call in a crashed airplane the neighbors might call you a "snitch'. So AFRCC can safely assume that an ELT going of in LA is really a plane crash in downtown LA.

Bosshawk is absolutely correct about there is a real since of self inflatulation of some people who think "alerting means; "YOU MUST GO, I AM THE ALL AND POWERFUL OZ", but that too is for another thread on IC brain swelling. 

[SarDragon]

Well, actually, the CAWG system works like this:

1. AFRCC calls a single number in the wing, This number never changes. The person who answers the phone (Wing Mission Alerting Officer (WMAO)) changes every day, and as a part of the change, that single number is forwarded to a number that the WMAO actually answers.

2. The WMAO does the calling around looking for an IC. He/she has a utility available that locates ICs by distance from the satellite merge. The WMAO can then call on the ICs closest to the suspected location until one is found.

3. The IC sends put a page by email that goes to members who have signed up to receive these emails, either on their computer, or more commonly, on their cell phones.

4. Anyone who receives a page, and is interested in participating, calls the IC for assignment.

5. If there is no response after two or three pages, it's turned over to the local sheriff.

[wingnut]

LIKE I SAID in CALIFORNIA THE POOR WMAO guy has to call looking for an IC

Truth is last month several WMAOs called sometimes over 30 telephone numbers and did not find an IC, or if they did they got "CHEWED OUT". outcome. . .

They are not going to 'VOLUNTEER" to do WMAO anymore, why have a member deal with the stress, let a computer do it.

[ray]

Here's what I don't get about the CAWG system - why not have ICs staff the alerting phone number?  It seems like an unnecessary, time consuming, and frustrating extra step to have the WMAO find an IC first.  I know the reasoning is that it is better to have local IC's run the mission, but the initial IC can start working the mission while simultaneously trying to find a closer IC to take over.  This is what ends up happening most of the time anyways for late night missions.

At the very least, there should be a rotating system of 'on call' North, South, and Central ICs so that the WMAO just has to make one phone call after he or she is alerted.  Again, they're going to have to find an IC anyways, why can't we have this figured out before the AFRCC calls instead of after?

Right now, when I'm doing WMAO duty and the phone rings late at night, part of me hopes that it's a missing aircraft and not an ELT - then I only have one phone call to make.  Shouldn't it be this easy for ELT missions too?

[LittleIronPilot]

I am as techno-geek as the next guy...but [darn] some of you are missing the point.

A text/SMS message at 3AM is NOT going to get many people calling back. I mean if ANYONE asked "well I sent the email at 3am, did you check it" I would laugh and say "sure, when I freaking WOKE UP at 6am"....moron.

If you need people, you had better [darn] well call them in the wee-hours of the morning. Or you will get a flood of calls/emails starting at 6am....about three hours AFTER you said you needed someone.

Email/texting are great, within their limitations, to rely SOLELY on them is lazy and lacks intelligence IMHO.

[cnitas]

How is an email or text message supposed to wake me up at 2:00am?

I check email 2-3 times per day and carry my cell phone at all times.
If I need to respond in 3 hours or less, I need a phone call.   Otherwise I may not get the message in time.

[0]

Well what I do is have the emails act as txts and come to my phone.  I keep the volume on and keep it right next to me.  Plus I'm one of those ES Guys that has the LPer sound as my txt message notifcation.  That wakes me up every time.

[cnitas]

Plus I'm one of those ES Guys that has the LPer sound as my txt message notifcation. 

Thats pretty cool.  I might have to try that out.   

[0]

If you'd like I've got a zip file I can send you with 3 different modulation tones. 

[davidsinn]

What about those of us that can not have cell phones at work? Or zero internet access for most of the day?

[0]

well that's a problem then. 

[Short Field]

In our state, AFRCC calls one number that never changes.  It rings on the on-call IC's phone.  The on-call IC starts the mission but has the option of finding another IC closer to the incident or who is more qualified.

If you are having e-mail sent to you cell phone to wake you up, you must have a very specfic set of ruels for your computer to use to forward the emails to your phone.  Otherwise, the spam would keep you awake all night.

[0]

Well what I do is for the paging system enter my phone number @vtext as my email address.  That way this would be the only email coming through. 

[Short Field]

I use the same thing.  I just get one beep on the phone - way too easy to not hear if asleep.  We also find, depending on the phone company, some people not getting the text messages delivered to their phone for up to an hour.  Unless I am on-call, I don't have the phone near me at night.  Too many hell-spawned auto-dialers out there.

4. Anyone who receives a page, and is interested in participating, calls the IC for assignment.

We tell the members in the page to NOT call the IC.   The last thing an IC needs as a mission is starting up is to start fielding phone calls from the wing-wide membership.  We have them enter their availability in the WMU for use by the IMU.

A couple of phone calls to the squadron commanders or deputies gets the ball rolling on intial aircrews and ground teams.   

[MSgt Van]

My company has a "no cell phones during business hours" rule, but I made it clear I'm in CAP and may get called. No problems. 

[0]

Mine has actually told me if there is an actual missing aircraft they'll push me out the door to go on the mission.

[Eclipse]

What about those of us that can not have cell phones at work? Or zero internet access for most of the day?

You have to accept the fact that you are not part of the first-contact "alert" crews.

We can't build systems based on random idiosyncrasies of members with situations that take them off the grid.

Anythng so big that an "all-hands effort" is going to be needed will be in the news and there will be coordinated call-ups, etc. - Katrina crews were being stood up for more than a week with wings requesting daily updates on availability.

Anything smaller will have to happen without you.

I would also generalize that members in situations where they have no internet or cel phones during (their) working hours usually lack the flexibility to leave their jobs on short notice anyway.

[davidsinn]

I do have the flexibility but the only way that I can be reached is on a land line while I am at work. I am the Unit alerting officer and 2nd in command. My commander is even harder to reach during the day because he is TSA. Does that mean that we write my entire unit off as never being able to be quick response because someone is too lazy to make a phone call?

[Eclipse]

I do have the flexibility but the only way that I can be reached is on a land line while I am at work. I am the Unit alerting officer and 2nd in command. My commander is even harder to reach during the day because he is TSA. Does that mean that we write my entire unit off as never being able to be quick response because someone is too lazy to make a phone call?

You're getting defensive because your situation doesn't fit what has been decided (assuming your state works that way).

There's no response to that which isn't argumentative, but the Unit Alerting officer should be easily contactable and in a situation where that person can turn around and make follow-on contacts.

Most states do >not< alert on a unit basis because its not practical or necessary.  If your state does, you've got to work with whatever program and process they have chosen.

[N Harmon]

My squadron subscribes to this service:    http://www.call-em-all.com

So far it has worked really well. I think National HQ should look at investing into something similar.

[calguy]

cell phone, house phone and pager all go off at 2100.  I am aircrew and never go skulking around in the bushes: for any reason except to walk or crawl away from a downed airplane.  I happen to live where the rocks go up to 13,000 ft and the Sq whose airplane I fly has a rule that no aircrew gets released to fly in terrain that is above 5000 feet at Night.  Makes it pretty simple that we don't respond until first light, so why bother listening to some IC who is not a pilot who wants an aircrew to go into cumulus granite at night to find an errant ELT.  Absolutely no point in putting two or three perfectly good aircrew in harms way in the mountains in the middle of the night.  Sorry, but that is how it goes with us.  I have had five CAP associates killed due to stupid decisions made when things were too dangerous to fly.  I don't intend to join them if I can help it.

Please don't give me that crap about someone may be lying in a crashed airplane waiting for me to find them.  I have two distress finds and there were no survivors in either and both were in the mountains. 

What about the CAP aircrew that crashed above Bishop California and NOBODY searched for them until the next morning.  (18 hours later)  All 3 had broken backs and stayed with their aircraft until morning in the snow.  They started to walk out in the morning because they knew nobody was searching for them.  Were they pissed!   Many crashes occur during the day but by the time the flight plan goes overdue or the ELT has gone to mission it is nightfall.  Just to say I am not willing to go search for them because its dark or cloudy is just an excuse and you should move your aircraft to another squadron willing to do the job.  It is a dis-service to have a CAP aircraft and refuse to fly it at night for missions when others will.  Its sad to think there are leaders like you that would leave another pilot or CAP member out in the cold because you won't fly at night.  If it soooo hazardous, lets stop CAP from flying all missions at night.  Why do you let your crews fly to Imperial at night when you say it is so hazardous?  The paging system "flaws" are just another excuse for members not wanting or willing to respond.   The alerting system seems to work fine for those that want to respond.  Instead of bashing those ICs, pilots and ground folks  for responding, you should be thankful that they are willing to go out and do CAP's jobs that you get and take credit for.  Good thing that CAWG has just a few people that are willing to stop what they are doing 24/7 and would search for you at night, in the mountains in the rain.  Otherwise, you would die.

[Short Field]

What about the CAP aircrew that crashed above Bishop California and NOBODY searched for them until the next morning.  (18 hours later) 

Above Bishop CA?   I flew two CAP missions above Bishop - that put me on top of Boundary Peak.  Climbed to 13.5K ft and contoured down the mountain side looking for a crash. 

Just to say I am not willing to go search for them because its dark or cloudy is just an excuse and you should move your aircraft to another squadron willing to do the job. 

The only search you can fly when it is dark or cloudy would be a quick ELT search along the route.   And if it was cloudy, you had better be on a IFR flight plan - not 1000 ft above the ground searching.

If it soooo hazardous, lets stop CAP from flying all missions at night. 

Do you understand the difference between flying a search mission at night and just flying at night?  Most of the West is a huge black hole at night.  You can sort of see the mountains when they block out the stars.   Fly a contour search along side a mountain you can't see???

[Short Field]

You have to accept the fact that you are not part of the first-contact "alert" crews.

If all you are getting is text messages and pages, you are not one of the first-contact "alert" crews.  They get phone calls.

I would also generalize that members in situations where they have no internet or cel phones during (their) working hours usually lack the flexibility to leave their jobs on short notice anyway.

Flawed generalization.  Spotty cell phone coverage and a job outside can really limit the internet and cell phone coverage.  Even if you own the company.   

[brasda91]

For those comments regarding no cell phones or internet while at work, you can do what I do, get an alpha-numeric pager.  Where I work, camera phones are not allowed.  I do have regular access to internet though.  But if you want me to know immediately that there is a mission in my area, you would be better off sending me a page, if I don't answer my cell.

Just a few weeks ago, once of our IC's sent me an alpha page (my phone was turned off in my vehicle) for a possible UDF mission.  I was the first contact for the mission.

[davidsinn]

All of this technology is great but what's the aversion to a phone call?

[Duke Dillio]

^It's unsecure.  They are listening to us now.  Sssshhhh.  We don't want them to hear...

You know, super secret squirrel stuff....

Back to my knot in the tree....

[calguy]

All of this technology is great but what's the aversion to a phone call?

In CAWG as an alerting officer, we use the phones and get poor and little response.  We have over 50 ICs in the Wing and I have telephoned at least 10 to 15 ICs with no response within our 30 minute alerting window before we have to turn the mission over to a defult IC.  Those that want to be alerted to a mission seem to always find a way to be in the loop, those that don't use it as an excuse for not wanting to respond. 

[KyCAP]

For the record... I am probably one of the largest geeks on the thread... In the IT business for 15 years now... Can name as many 4th generation programming languages and database engines as most on the list..

I am an IC as well.

EMAIL / TEXT is NOT the ONLY solution.   

If the AFRCC gets to me on the list... Once I wake up from the sleepy haze.. I kickout an email to our wing list server that hits half a dozen agencies and others who "NEED TO KNOW" we have a mission in their jurisdiction ( 2 minutes).  Then I pick up the phone and call the UNIT alerting officer or a Mission pilot and GTL in the right "area".

However, sometimes this takes a while.   An automated tool like:
http://www.universalalert.com/liveDemo/liveDemo.php

Emails, calls at the SAME time until it hunts you down and gets a response.

This should / would alleviate the "call up" process that is normally about 40 minutes of my "loading" the mission to get to mission.

And yes... AFRCC's list for KY are ALL IC's on their Alerting Roster in WMIRS.  Keep up the discussion.. Good information here.

[wingnut]

you guys don't get it!!!

CAWG has a "Mandated Alerting system", it does not matter what the members say, it does not matter how people complain, so "DO AS WE SAY NOT AS WE DO",

and NHQ wonders why people quit

It is a shame that dedicated and 'SKILLED" volunteers are beat down by a system that is broken and no one really cares to fix it.

[Eclipse]

What we don't "get" is how you can have 50 IC's, make 15 phone calls and not find someone to step up, many states have less than 10 total, assign the alert IC, and expect them to do their jobs.

Those that won't aren't on the alert list for long, and aren't IC's much longer after that.

This is volunteer SAR, not "Deal or No Deal".

[RiverAux]

All of this technology is great but what's the aversion to a phone call?

In CAWG as an alerting officer, we use the phones and get poor and little response.  We have over 50 ICs in the Wing and I have telephoned at least 10 to 15 ICs with no response within our 30 minute alerting window before we have to turn the mission over to a defult IC.  Those that want to be alerted to a mission seem to always find a way to be in the loop, those that don't use it as an excuse for not wanting to respond. 

Back when I was doing alerting for my squadron, I probably only left messages or otherwise couldn't contact about 20% of our ES force at any given time.  If you make 10-15 calls in a row without even TALKING to someone, there is a major problem there.  Those ICs are obviously not answering the phone on purpose. 

[isuhawkeye]

Here is an IC's perspective

When I was an IC in CAP I did the following to alert crews of a mission

1.  I posted an e-mail alert on the wing's virtual office.  this alerted the Wing CC, and the LO of the mission.   This also started a thread to archive mission activities.  This also served as an instant alert of the entire wing via e-mail.

2.  I logged on to the wing's text message system.  I would text the alerting officer for the closest three squadrons giving a heads up of the mission.

3.  I started calling unit alerting officers.  This part was often time consuming and frustrating.  If I got pas the unit alerting officer with out a response and a team from a reasonably close unit contacted me based upon my e-mail, or text messages then they got the mission.

I'm sorry that some members were not able to answer phone calls, pages, or e-mails. 

[ZigZag911]

We've been trying to put on "on call" roster (ICs, mission available aircrew & GTs) for years....people would sign up for a given week, standing night of the week, what have you....for some reason volunteer ambulance squads can make it work, but CAP (at least in NJW) has encountered difficulties.

I'm not sure whether it's the utter complexity of our lives or what, but I think something along these lines would simplify life for all.

Are there any wings that have a system like this in place?

[KyCAP]

Bump...

When it rains it pours...

Today I received Logins from the Ky National Guard for www.onecallnow.com and from the Lexington Fayette County Urban Govt for http://www.dccusa.com/communicator-nxt.asp for alerting.

CAPT Morgan and I have been testing with it this evening... Initial results looks like onecallnow.com is a very SIMPLE interface while Communicator!NXT is VERY complex and allows for some pretty neat things like pre-built scenarios and canned messages....  Very cool.

The Wing ES and DO are working with us to build a statewide voice and email alerting system using the latter.

[RiverAux]

Seems to me that this would be something that national should be taking the lead on so that we can get a better price for the use of such services. 

[RADIOMAN015]

Alerting & response, should be part of the overall AF operations inspection & evaluation of Civil Air Patrol wings.
You could even set up a central telephone number that the AF evaluator would sit at & when a member called in he/she would ask for member's ID#, unit of assignment, & than enter time member call was received.

I can recall numerous recalls & reporting in the Air Force.  What was interesting is apparently our intelligence was so good, that most calls start around 0530 hrs in the morning (and in my NCO days, I would track the recall response strength for a 300 member squadron, so my commander would always call me first rather than using the telephone tree, so I had to be sure I kept it going down otherwise nobody would show up ).  Can't recall ever getting a recall at any other time

Most cellphone companies allow relatively short text msgs to be sent to cell phones (as long as they aren't blocked from receiving text messages by the subscriber), that your email program will allow you to send.  Key issue is not to exceed the total # of characters authorized (so you have to determine which carrier has the smallest size msg limitation).

Also I think that ANY alert system should allow the member to include multiple email addresses (e.g. home & work) to also receive alerts.

In our squadron some key personnel have a telephone list of all members (as the comm officer I do) so IF we need to run an alert standby/response 1 or two of us can notify the appropriate qualified members.  That works fine & is staying within the Chain of Command, rather than wing wide systems or even nation wide systems.       

I also tend to feel that with all the rebanding of frequencies that we should consider getting cost estimates for a 1 or two channel monitor/receiver, so that we have an inhouse CAP radio wireless alert system also as a backup.  (using a radio scanner would be fine, BUT there's a limitation about releasing CAP frequencies to members, BUT I would think releasing the GUARD channel & the local repeater channel to those members that have taken OPSEC would work!)
RM

[N Harmon]

Why is it that our communications infrastructure for alerting need not have to meet NIMS standards for interoperability, reliability, scalability, and portability like our command and control network does? Is it because we will never be alerted when the telephone network isn't working?

[RADIOMAN015]

Why is it that our communications infrastructure for alerting need not have to meet NIMS standards for interoperability, reliability, scalability, and portability like our command and control network does? Is it because we will never be alerted when the telephone network isn't working?

I think you will find that each agency is response for their own alerting.  In order to be cost effective some state agencies combine there systems into 1 somewhat fail safe system.  Although, depending upon what disaster actual occurs that may result in response, there's no perfect sytem

CAP is not unique to volunteers not responding.  Many Volunteer Fire Departments have problems during certain times (generally 0700 to 1700 hrs local) of the weekdays to field a fire crews that meet recommended safety guidelines.  You do need for planning purposes to know who IS AVAILABLE versus just a call out to ANYBODY that might be available!

Again system wise, I think that it gets down to the potential of the telephone/wireless telephone not working versus the cost of alternative methods of notification.   My choice would be to keep the notification internally to our radio system with over the air notifications/alerts to very simple alert codes such as ALERT ONE (respond to unit hdqs or you could have Alpha suffixes for specific locations, eg ALERT ONE ALPHA would be squadron headquarters, 1B would be the commercial airport, etc...), ALERT TWO (standby for further alert instructions), & ALERT THREE (this is a test of the alert system 3A would be just to note the time; 3B call your (ES/Comm/Commander upon receipt), etc...
Any internal communications to CAP does not have to be in clear language and can be what we decide.  It's only when you are in interoperability.

Additionally, some agencies such as various state Emergency Management Agencies (key command & control centers) should also be given access to our network so that if we have problems throughout the state in our connectivity they can access & pass the information for us.

Additionally, there's also the possibility of high bird aircraft & the use of such aircraft as the National Emergency Airborne Command Post (NEACP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_E-4 & other high flying Air Force assets (e.g. AWACS) to do an alert.  It would very interesting to condcut and evaluate a radio alert exercise (on a CAP simplex frequency from an asset flying at Flight level 40,000 feet!! 
RM           

[kc2ush]

My company has a "no cell phones during business hours" rule, but I made it clear I'm in CAP and may get called. No problems.

so does my school and i know i cant go on missions during school but my gtl will still call so its on me no matter when

[RRLE]

You might want to look into http://www.phonevite.com/ Phoneivte. I saw it mentioned on a few amateur radios boards. Apparently some radio clubs and ARES groups use it.

They have a 'free service' with limited features, some of which go away after a limited time and a pay service. 'Free' is in quotes since the free service is ad supported.

[sarguy]

cell phone, house phone and pager all go off at 2100.  I am aircrew and never go skulking around in the bushes: for any reason except to walk or crawl away from a downed airplane.  I happen to live where the rocks go up to 13,000 ft and the Sq whose airplane I fly has a rule that no aircrew gets released to fly in terrain that is above 5000 feet at Night.  Makes it pretty simple that we don't respond until first light, so why bother listening to some IC who is not a pilot who wants an aircrew to go into cumulus granite at night to find an errant ELT.  Absolutely no point in putting two or three perfectly good aircrew in harms way in the mountains in the middle of the night.  Sorry, but that is how it goes with us.  I have had five CAP associates killed due to stupid decisions made when things were too dangerous to fly.  I don't intend to join them if I can help it.

Please don't give me that crap about someone may be lying in a crashed airplane waiting for me to find them.  I have two distress finds and there were no survivors in either and both were in the mountains.

Better late than never on a response but some people actually respond to missions, run them and the like rather than tought their 2 whole finds...  Distress finds too?  That's awesome.  I guess that pales in comparison to my 6 in 3 months...  I wish I could be better....  Or the fact that I've been up close and personal with people that walk away alive.  The gratitue on their faces makes the 99% of the deceased finds worth it.  Too bad this is the type of impression I get from California.  Paul, let me know where you are and I'll give the Fire Department a call.  I'll let them know they don't need to respond to any medical aid at your house until first light.  Roads could be wet, lack of street lights perhaps?  Drunk drivers?  All make driving a fire truck into your neighborhood a high risk. 

Make sure you carry a PLB, Sat. Phone and local SO number if flying in California...  No way you'l survive otherwise

[SarDragon]

Better jump off your high horse there. I'll bet that bosshawk has a ton more time on missions than you do. How much time have you spent here in California, on missions or otherwise? What's the terrain like where you are?

I totally agree with his commentary. It is absolutely insane to go looking for a crashed a/c in the mountains after dark, particularly above 5000'. We don't have a lot of flat terrain here, except in the central valley, where it's pretty easy to find crashes. But then, most of our crashes seem to occur in the mountains. Imagine that.

We also have jurisdiction issues here that hinder our responses.