CAP Rangers

[Stonewall]

In the Army we called them MUTA-5 weekends (Men Under Tent Asleep?)

Military Unit Training Assembly.  Each MUTA is a 4 hour period, but you don't get paid any more if you work longer than 8 hours a day.  In the Air Guard we call them a UTA, just lose the "M".

We did MUTA 5s in my Army Guard unit too.  We also did a couple per year at my last squadron, usually over the summer or during winter break.

[afgeo4]

I have stayed OUT of the Ranger/Hawk Mountain/Berets/Bling/etc. discussion because I really am not interested in trying to look like a Frenchman.  But...

My head is starting to hurt with all the NIMS/SARTECH/MEDIC requirements vs. CAP Rangers.  I want a solution that will make the folks happy, not make us look like idiots, and is simple and fair in its application.

So:

1.  What WE as CAP guys do is unique.  We operate ground teams to aid in searches conducted by aircraft.  They are trained in coordinated searches with an aircraft, communication (with and without radio) with a search aircraft.  Our GT guys are trained in basic fieldcraft, and rely on external support for their operations.  They can be tactically employed in two ways:

     a.  As separate teams, consisteng of CAP members only, and operating with a CAP airplane.

     b.  As a liaison element with another agency's SAR ground team, to provide coordination with a CAP airplane (Not at all unlike the Air Boss in an infantry unit who is an Air Force officer and pilot who coordinates the air support).

2.  The Air Force, in its own AFI, identifies these CAP ground-pounding people as "Rangers."  We limit that term to HM grads, and guys who complete a HM curriculum in Florida and elsewhere, but the AF does not.

3.  The cadets like berets.  We can't get around that.  Officers look pretentions in them, but the cadets love them.

So...  Proposed solution for discussion:

1.  GTM-3 requirements will be unchanged, and upon qualification as a GTM-3 , the GT badge will be awarded.

2.  GTM-2 requirements will be enhanced to include a minimum 3-day (2-nights) training bivouac in the field.  The training should fill the three days, be challenging, and mission-related.  At the conclusion of GTM-2 a beret will be awarded to cadets, but without a beret flash.

Will some form of standardized guide be provided for these activities or will each one wing it? WIth the very general guidance listed here, you never know what you'll end up with. The problem with three full days is, except for summer,  cadets can't do Friday or Monday, and many seinors can't do Fri/Mon year round.

3.  GTM-1 completion gets the cadet a generic beret flash.  Maybe just a modified wing-and-prop cadet cap insignia.

How about the old National Emergency Assistance Training patch, minus the arc? It's about the right size. See CAPM 39-1, pg 125, for picture. Or, if having the word "Ranger" is important, replace the stars with "RANGER". Using something not specifically cadet related is good if senior member wear the beret as well - see comment below. What about grade on the beret? You know that issue will come up.

4.  NBB and Hawk grads go directly to the beret, but with a distinctive flash, one for NBB and a different one for HM.

5.  GTM-3 and GTM-2 will be designated "Ranger Trainees" and GTM-1's, NBB grads, and HM grads will be designated "Rangers."

Do HM and NBB meet the GTM1 requirements? If not, why should they be called "Ranger" if that title is for GTM1's?

6.  Officers get the GT badges, but should not wear the beret unless they are instructing at NBB/HM, and once the class ends they put the BDU patrol cap on.

If the beret is the only thing identifying Rangers, why not let officer wear them?

7.  NO OTHER BLING.  No patches, belts, bibs, whistles, sabers, sidearms, pins, funny hats, nothing!

Flame away.

OK, I had a skeleton of an idea.  If you want to flesh it out, fine.

First.  Yes.  The GTM-2 bivouac should have specific training goals, established Nationally.  How these goals are met is the local commander's job.  I have no problem with a Friday afternoon through Sunday afternoon bivouac meeting the standard.  In the Army we called them MUTA-5 weekends (Men Under Tent Asleep?)

I did not look up the ES patch you described, but I'm sure it would be fine.  I have no problem with embroidered officer grade on the flash for both cadet and adult officers.  We would just have to establish background colors for the different flashes.  As a future National Commander, I delegate such details to my future staff.  There is no pressing need to identify the word "Ranger" anywhere.  The badge and beret will identfy Ranger Trainees, the beret flash will identify qualified Rangers.  Identification is symbolic.  If you don't know the symbol for a CAP Ranger, you have no need to know who is one!

The last time I checked the curriculum at both HM and NBB, they DID meet the minimum standards for GTM-1.  If this has changed, as the future National Commander I order it changed back.

Somebody else already convinced me to allow officers to wear the Monica Lewinsky Hat.

Dear future Maj(Gen),

Will you be authorizing the tan beret as the beret of choice?

[isuhawkeye]

when I was the ES director at NBB we did not complete GTM1.  our foccus was on UDF.  that's the mission at Oshkosh, and there is not appropriate time for the GT1 level of training.  NBB is not so much a training ground as it is a live mission.

[JohnKachenmeister]

George:  My staff is working out the details.  I'm too important to concern myself with minutae.

Hawkeye:  We'll have to fix that.  Add some training to the NBB, or require some home-station training before reporting to NBB.  Easy fix.  Actually, we will probably have more heartburn deciding on a beret color that would make everyone happy.  Geroge from NY wants tan.  NBB implies a blue one.  The PA guys will want orange so they can blend in with the deer hunters.  California will want either pink or lavender so they can interface with the other silly-dressed SAR people.

[Gunner C]

John

Even in Vietnam, and Honduras, we had a club.

Ah yes.  The club at Soto Cano.  I left some of my best brain cells there. 

Sergeant, I'm going to a meeting in Palmerola.  I'll be under my usual table if you need me!

So that's where I know you from! 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Camp Oso Grande (Big Bear), Departmento de Yoro, 1986-87.  Building the Famous Farm-to-Market Road.  The club that had all the patches on the wall got the one from the 300th Military Police Command from my left arm!

[Stonewall]

Love you guys, I really do  but, um, topic drift...

[BigMojo]

I'm with Stonewall here on the drift...I think the horse died about 3 pages ago.

Full Disclosure: I have taken some Ranger courses at the Glades School, I'll probably get a "grade" of some sort. I don't drink the Kool-aid, but if you can look beyond the bling, they are teaching some good stuff there and giving cadets the practical field experience they wouldn't get on a regular basis otherwise.

It was structured, had a lesson plan, and was well taught. At least in this current incarnation down here I didn't see an infatuation with bling, and no cocky attitudes. The Cadet Commander is our squadron Dep. Commander, he's about as level headed as they come, and is a hell of a motivator and teacher.

[Stonewall]

but if you can look beyond the bling, they are teaching some good stuff there and giving cadets the practical field experience they wouldn't get on a regular basis otherwise.

And that goes with what I've said from the beginning, however, as I did say on the first page of this discussion, no one should jump to any "advanced" status or rating, whether it be recognized or not, without first being at the basic level, to include all the stuff it takes to get GTM qualified.

And I'll look past the bling when the "ranger community" does.  Prove it to me that the entire HMRS group, Florida or otherwise, can survive without a single piece of blingage.  Remember, I attended a HMRS course too.  So I'm not speaking without my own personal experience.

[BigMojo]

I agree, I think GTM3 should be a pre-req to attending any "ranger" training. I don't have much experience with the Ranger people outside of those down here. I did see a lot of rolled bdu covers and excessive tabs at Lakeland a couple weeks ago, and I agree that ain't right.

I know they are looking for a director of ranger training in FL wing...you interested Stonewall? 

[Stonewall]

I know they are looking for a director of ranger training in FL wing...you interested Stonewall? 

Because the first thing I'd do is change the name from "ranger" to "ground operations training" and lose all the bling, and people just can't live like that.

[Gunner C]

I know they are looking for a director of ranger training in FL wing...you interested Stonewall? 

Because the first thing I'd do is change the name from "ranger" to "ground operations training" and lose all the bling, and people just can't live like that.

+1

[Stonewall]

Actually, I'd call it AGOS (Air, Ground Operations School).  Modeled after the 80s course from National Capital Wing.  It had everything you needed.

Gut Check
Quality in advanced aspects of GSAR
PT
Classroom

Air Ground Operations School.  Something I never experienced but saw videos, pictures and heard tons of stories about.  I showed up to National Capital Wing too late.  I think their last AGOS running was 1990, I got there in 1992.

The Staff:  75% former cadets, Mitchell and higher.  75% prior military, to include Special Forces, Ranger, and Airborne Infantry.  All ground team member or leader.  Cadets and Seniors.

The Setting:  Ft. Belvoir, VA Training Areas 8 and 9 (a huge area) all to themselves.  [Then] Ft. Belvoir (Davison AAF) Air Assault School obstacle course and rappel tower plus AAS Instructors available.  NO RANK for students, only a roster number taped to their fatigue hat.  Students were cadets and seniors alike totaling between 25 and 45 from what I understand.

Training:  7 days straight, all in the field.  Survival, first and foremost.  I have pictures from AGOS of them killing/eating both chickens and rabbits, living in natural shelters, washing in the creek, boiling water, building fires....  Tactical radio communications.  Setting up different types of radios and antennas.  Signalling exercises (mirror, panels, natural).  Water survival in Pohic bay to include water crossings, poncho rafts, etc.  Ropes course to include rappelling (wall and skid); negotiating the obstacle course several times over different days.  Land navigation out the wazzoo.  ELT tracking.  Lost person search.  Team level SAR competitions.  Medical training from 18Ds.  And the bread and butter of the course, air/ground coordination/communications.

Graduation:  No tabs, no bells and whistles, not even a certificate.  Just excellent training in leadership, followership, core operational skills, life skills and a gut check.  No one was ever hazed, just treated as equals while enduring some good training.  Actually, there was talk (back then) of creating a "RESCUE" tab to put over the nametape or something.

This went on for at least 5 or 6 years, starting in either '85 or '86.  I actually have the photos that belonged to the squadron because the guy that took command after my time was a POS who lost everything from the actual Charter we had hanging on the wall from 1960-something, to a brand new L'Per.

AGOS Formation.


AGOS Inspection.


Rucksack Flop.


Old school ruck march...

[mikeylikey]

^ I like that!

[afgeo4]

George:  My staff is working out the details.  I'm too important to concern myself with minutae.

Hawkeye:  We'll have to fix that.  Add some training to the NBB, or require some home-station training before reporting to NBB.  Easy fix.  Actually, we will probably have more heartburn deciding on a beret color that would make everyone happy.  Geroge from NY wants tan.  NBB implies a blue one.  The PA guys will want orange so they can blend in with the deer hunters.  California will want either pink or lavender so they can interface with the other silly-dressed SAR people.

Sorry, but George is from NY and a Jew... so sarcasm was automatically implied. There should be hell no way that CAP "Rangers" should be able to wear a tan beret that symbolizes Army Rangers. Or tabs for that matter, especially over branch tapes (HIDEOUS!). How about a "Buckaroo" Patch on right breast where the ES patch normally goes and call it a day?

Seriously, is a Hawk Mtn grad who isn't current in his/her GTM rating really more important than anyone else? More important than someone who is current in his/her GTM rating?

[JohnKachenmeister]

OK, I got the sarcasm part.  I don't understand the rest of your post.

I THINK I made it claer that HM grads were NOT to be given special awards not available to all qualified GTM's.

Where did I go wrong?

[afgeo4]

OK, I got the sarcasm part.  I don't understand the rest of your post.

I THINK I made it claer that HM grads were NOT to be given special awards not available to all qualified GTM's.

Where did I go wrong?

You joined CAP?

[sarmed1]

And I'll look past the bling when the "ranger community" does.

It would only be a limited look....There was a period there for a few years where Tabs we outlawed, and for the most part complied with (mostly those out of state that never got the wing CC memo confirming and re-iterating the national prohibition.)  Of course belts, ascots and funny hats (but technically 39-1 authorized) were still in and orange T-shirts (not so much legal) ....but thats as close as it got.  Like I posted in the other thread....the only way that things wil remain status quo is with a compromise....some official piece of bling that anyone can wear anywhere...other wise HMRS types will campaign for all the bling they can, and anti blings will campaign for no bling at all......whichever side wins the other will campaing until the decision is reverese and so on and so on......

Personally I think that if the bling went away the program and the training would be seen in a much better light, but with it all people see is the silly bling and have a difficult time getting anything past that.

I like the AGOS concept too.  When I got on board in TXWG thats a lot what we did with the GSARSS program (or ATS as it was)  we took best practices from HMRS, PJOC, Ranger, SF airborne and the civilian SAR community and picked what worked and did a kick but SAR themed teamwork/leadership type activity.  3rd year we got approval from national to award GTM badge as meeting NESA type activity equivilent and thats as far as the bling went......at some point the wing DCP put a cord into the cadet programs award list but that wasnt asked for or even cared about.  People came because word of mouth said it was an awsome activity not because of any bling......

mk

[JohnKachenmeister]

In the Army we called them MUTA-5 weekends (Men Under Tent Asleep?)

Military Unit Training Assembly.  Each MUTA is a 4 hour period, but you don't get paid any more if you work longer than 8 hours a day.  In the Air Guard we call them a UTA, just lose the "M".

We did MUTA 5s in my Army Guard unit too.  We also did a couple per year at my last squadron, usually over the summer or during winter break.

Stonewall:

The Army uses the term "UTA" as well.  A Unit Training Assembly is one 4-hour drill period.  A Multiple Unit Training Assembly (MUTA) is several 4-hour drills strung together, like on a weekend.  A MUTA-4 is full days Saturday and Sunday.  A MUTA-5 is one UTA on Friday night, tacked onto a MUTA-4 over Saturday and Sunday.

This goes back to when Guard and Reserve units met on weeknights, just like CAP units.  Each 4-hour period was one weekly meeting, and counted as one day of duty for retirement.  When weekend drils became more popular, the 4 weeknights were all done together.  The Friday night MUTA-5 came about because some months have 5 weeknight meetings.

That's why a weekend drill counts for 4 days of duty for retirement purposes... it takes the place of 4 weeknight meetings.

I was only kidding about "Men Under Tent Asleep."

Sort of like BOAC:  "Buying Officers Another Career."  and BOBC:  "Bringing Officers Back for Counseling."

[Stonewall]

Yeah, I know all about the MUTA stuff, I'm in the Guard.  But I didn't know you were kidding around.  I really need to learn how to see when someone's being sarcastic and when they're being sserious.