Pathfinder Technical School

[Eclipse]

I've heard of similar issues in other states I've worked in. Once, in Arkansas, I even was told flat out that "CAP would never be called out by the ________ Department of Emergency Management.

The issue there is that unless the "xEMA" is the agency that calls CAP out, it's irrelevant whether or not they like us.

In my wing, there is a lot of rhetoric about the state, but the missions all come from the local relationships.

If there is value to CAP for extra training, etc., so be it.  If it's just another card to carry in your wallet, then the
direct questions have to be asked about our involvement.

I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of people who love to have lots of cards in their wallet, none which
ultimately mean anything in a CAP context.

[catrulz]

First post here, so prepared to duck after hitting enter.

Read this entire thread.  The interesting thing that has not been mentioned is:  the creator of the MOWG Pathfinder School was a member of the National Emergency Services Curriculum Committee.  Pathfinder is not a new curriculum, by rather is THE curriculum, plus some.  While I would agree if the minimum standards are not met for GTM there is an issue, but if the standard is met and exceeded what's the problem?

I have been to the classroom portion instructed by the author and it was excellent training that is 100% compatible with the current curriculum.  I've been to NESA twice (GSAR both times), and there is very little difference and the differences adds not detracts from the National Standard.  My hat is off to the staff that took the time and effort to put this together, implement, and plan for it's future continuance.

[arajca]

The biggest issue we deal with is the folks who come back thinking they are 'special' or 'elite' because of the training. That leads to a breakdown of the concept of TEAM.

This frequently happens despite the claims from the school organizers that they discourage that mindset. Allowing special bling above that for other NCSA's only adds to the problem.

The main complaint about this particular activity has been the name Pathfinder. That implies a special or elite qualification. If it were the MOWG Ground SAR School, nothing implies anything special.

[Eclipse]

^ Yep.

The biggest issues we have behaviorally and attitudinally, especially with cadets, but also far too often with seniors,
is when you take something standard, give it a fancy name or special badge, and add nothing to the mission capability or ability.

You also can't add to the curriculum and then expect members to not want to use those skills.

As Arajca said, you then have people walking around thinking they are "special", when in fact their relevent mission
experience and ability may be less then those "not special".  If a particular wing wants to deal with that nonsense,
so be it, but CAP deploys for major incidents on a regional and national scale, including encampments and NCSAs,
etc, which solicit members from all over the country, bringing with them their "not-special-special", and for some
reason Wing CCs are reluctant to require the "non-special-special" be left at home.

CAP has a singular mission set and skill level, set by NHQ and dictated by the customers. Those wings with
terrain, weather, or other local challenges can address them with supplements that live and die within
their borders and don't require "special".

CAP, as an organization, would be much better off if it would learn this lesson and spend the time wasted on
the "not-special-special" working with the agencies who could actually get it work.  The majority of members
would trade their "not-special-special" for real decorations related to actual SAR and DR work.

[catrulz]

I agree somewhat, people do return from some activities with a superiority complex.  Look for instance, at returnees from NBB and Hawk Mountain.  Personally, I can deal with it, for the amount of time the ego takes to deflate.  And, generally the member (cadet or senior) is normally a better member for having attended.

If you all remember the early GTL SQTR's (ca 2000-2001), qualification required more than basic first aid/CPR.  This requirement was eased, in my opinion because of the difficulty and expense in receiving this training. 

I think every Wing should be tasked with implementing a Wing ES training academy.  NESA is a super activity (like I said I've been twice), but the expense and distance inhibits broad attendance.  My issue with CAP has never been over-training or worrying about how some training infates someones ego, but rather the incessant pencil whipping of qualifications.  And not only in ES but on specialty track qualifications and yes even on cadet promotions. 

Once again I applaud these guys, and disdain those that sign people off because they are buddies or are worried about political consequences.  As long as they are doing it correctly and by the standard, let them have the name and bling or a little ego.  Believe me you eventually tire of all these things.

[catrulz]

In another thread I read an entry talking about patting yourself on the back while pointing fingers at others.  This attitude more than any matches what CAP seems strive for.  I hope we're not teaching our cadets this skill.  I learn a lot on CAP Talk, but seems like there are lots of arguments about very little.  When major issues go un-noticed.

A school where you actually have to pass, and demonstrate skill is a good thing.  I think it's in line with the core values to recognize success of this magnitude.  And this is a huge success, and movement toward competence is a huge stride in the right direction.  If that means they get to call themselves a Ranger or Pathfinder or get to wear a blue beret, I'm okay with that.

[sardak]

If you all remember the early GTL SQTR's (ca 2000-2001), qualification required more than basic first aid/CPR.  This requirement was eased, in my opinion because of the difficulty and expense in receiving this training.

The qualification was "Complete Advanced First Aid or equivalent." It was dropped as a requirement because the only Advanced First Aid was that which the Red Cross taught, and the Red Cross was phasing it out. CAP itself was also evaluating what first aid training was really necessary. CPR as a separate certification was not required for GTL or GTM.

Mike

[Eclipse]

^ +1.

Other then removing the CPR requirement, nothing has changed in regards to what CAP considers "advanced first aid".

Your typical 1-day community-level class has always met the requirement.

[sarmed1]

^ +1.

Other then removing the CPR requirement, nothing has changed in regards to what CAP considers "advanced first aid".

Your typical 1-day community-level class has always met the requirement.

Not so.  At the time the ARC (and a few others) offered specific basic and advanced first aid courses.  The basic course was 16 hours  and was well....basic.  The advanced class was an additional 16 ( if I remember correctly), id have to look at my old books to see what "advanced" skills were taught. I think there were sections on backboarding, oral airways,  tomas half ring splints, the notched board traction splint, and more in depth discussion about different medical emergencies.

The problem for CAP was two-fold.a you could only get the cool badge by meeting the additional requirements.  Not just any old GTL.  b-the ARC was phasing out the advanced first aid course in favor of the emergency responder course-basically a 40 hour DOT curriculum first responder course (including a new and more expensive text)  More cost and more time made the additional training  cost prohibitive.   Next thing you know gtm gets broken into 3 levels and you get the badge for either one at the lowest level possible.

MK

[SPAATZ1315]

As a graduate of Pathfinders in the 90s, I am thrilled that they are starting this again. Yeah we did feel "special" and it was an honor to wear the Orange shoulder cord but when we went out on SAREXs those with the Pathfinders patch were held to a higher standard. We typically were trained better than the others and were considered leaders in ES. That is not to say others were not equally trained or even better than us but it was a sense of pride and accomplishment that was well respected in the MO Wing. I only hope they can bring back the level of training and respect that the Pathfinders school once represented. I most certainly applaud the effort and wish them all the best.

:clap:

Capt Ammon Hoover
COWG Valkyrie Cadet Sqdn
Spaatz# 1315

[Luis R. Ramos]

....We typically were trained better than the others and were considered leaders in ES. That is not to say others were not equally trained or even better...

An oxymoron... How can you even say that you were trained better than other groups, but that other groups were equally trained?

[LSThiker]

It is similar to saying "one of the best".  It is a contradiction of terms as by definition there can only be one best. 

[Luis R. Ramos]

I know what he means to say, but the way he is saying it is demeaning the others...

[sandite190]

Is there a winter pathfinder school?