Pathfinder Technical School

[Matt Kenyon]

I'm a JoAT at work. Seems to work just fine. GTM is GTM. Everyone should know the job of everyone else. If every PFC/Corporal is expected to be able to take charge of the Platoon in a SHTF situation, then "specialization" in an already "Specialty" field is going too deep.

Right, but you have to admit, a person that can do everything okay can't do anything great. We are'nt talking about cadets taking over a ground team, or the like. We are talking about a member that can set up the HF radio's or mobile repeaters in a low power, no power environment, like can be found in a disaster area, maintain them, and keep a net up. How about members that know all there is to know about Photographing damaged buildings, uploading the images and GPS data, and sending a finished product to SEMA, FEMA, or NGIA.

Professionalism has nothing to do with being paid or not being paid....aka being a volunteer......  Especially in the world of public safety.  Learn that lesson sooner rather than later and you will be impressed with how many more doors are open rather than shut.

I take your point, but don't agree. Maybe I'm not savvy enough to put it into words, but CAP doesn't, and never has, struck me as a professional organisation.








MK
[/quote]

[sarmed1]

JoAT is what kills this organization sometimes.  Lack of bodies forces many units to dual hat too many members.  (Or triple or quadrouple hat)  How can you focus on staying up to date and capable on GTM tasks for the once a year mission when you spend more time worrying about this weeks testing, next months trip to the air museum, promotion boards, getting the vans brakes changed and getting into that CLC course so you can get promoted.

The many other organizations I have volunteered my self in that are ES related (fire and EMS)  the rank and file member worries about one thing:  training for and responding to the emergency they are there waiting for....even if it only actually happens a few times per year.

The best run organizations I have seen are ones that keep a well defined split between administration and operations.  If you need someone to keep track of the finances, find someone who wants to do it and likes to do it, not someone who wants to fly a search aircraft that can also balance a checkbook.  There will always be people that can do both and times that they should do both, but that should be the minority not the majority.

MK

[Senior]

Eclipse, You are wrong again.  You do not know what you are talking about.  I wish you would stay quiet and have your keyboard taken away.

Pathfinder Tech School started in Missouri to teach the realities of SAR in Missouri.  It has a long and proud history
training members in Missouri and many other states with a common sense approach to SAR. 
In the very earliest days orange berets were awarded but WIWAC we wore a blaze orange ball cap while at the activity.  We were permitted by the Missouri Wing Commander to wear an orange shoulder chord with blues.  You were allowed to wear a patch on your OD green shirt and then later the Woodland BDU upon completion of the course.

The school always had a small amount of students.  It was never intended to be a large encampment type of event. 

Pathfinders, WIWAC was before NESA or any National level courses or curriculum.  It is a good idea to have smaller Wing or Region schools that allow training year round and are more economical. 

The school never had an attitude of arrogance, bling or "we are special".  It was always taught with the idea that we trying to help the victim in the best way possible.

I know some of the leadership for the current school.  I don't think it will turn into a Ranger Program with all thier problems.

The medic training is interesting.  Boy Scout Explorers in my area have medical specific Explorer Units.  What would be wrong with having medical professionals demonstrate or talk about that field.  We go to PJOC and are told "don't try this at home", so what is wrong with expanding the knowledge of motivated cadets as long as it preached that we can't do this in CAP. 

Missouri Wing received a National Commander's Commendation for all the SAR,DR work we did in 2011.  So we do a lot in Missouri Wing.  So to our detractors (in Illinois) and others please do some research before commenting.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Aaaand Suspended. Lol

[Garibaldi]

Aaaand Suspended. Lol

Sorry to be tardy to the hanging party, but why?

[PHall]

Aaaand Suspended. Lol

Sorry to be tardy to the hanging party, but why?

We're not allowed to tell Eclipse he's wrong.

[a2capt]

Probably a same IP.. as if the original Jackwagon episode didn't result in the ban-hammer.

[Senior]

Yes, suspended because I told someone to be quiet. 
Eclipse should still have his keyboard taken away.
Just the responses I expected from some members on this board not surprised at all.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If he's suspended...why is he posting? Lol

[PHall]

Because there's "suspended" and "SUSPENDED".

[AlphaSigOU]

So, other than the name and the chance of some bling (which wasn't even broached in any of the material I saw on the website), what is the problem?

Because, don't you listen to the news?  Everything has to be a national standard, and if it's not, it's defective per se.  Local concerns detract from a national focus.

So, by God, they need to teach high-altitude mountain survival in FLWG, and you better believe that NDWG better get their hurricane awareness training...not to mention HIWG's blizzard survival curriculum.

Only if HIWG had a SAR mission to Mauna Kea on the Big Island...

[JeffDG]

So, other than the name and the chance of some bling (which wasn't even broached in any of the material I saw on the website), what is the problem?

Because, don't you listen to the news?  Everything has to be a national standard, and if it's not, it's defective per se.  Local concerns detract from a national focus.

So, by God, they need to teach high-altitude mountain survival in FLWG, and you better believe that NDWG better get their hurricane awareness training...not to mention HIWG's blizzard survival curriculum.

Only if HIWG had a SAR mission to Mauna Kea on the Big Island...

If I'm ever reported missing in HI, I've managed to find a way to stow away in one of the domes up there and have hijacked the CFHT or something similar.

[a2capt]

Only if HIWG had a SAR mission to Mauna Kea on the Big Island...

No, it would be back to the Slab.. lets see if you'll sign up for that one ;-)

[SARDOC]

Actually the name of the school isn't really the issue - if you look at the school's currcilum documents,
it created MOWG-only "Pathfinder" ratings, including "Pathfinder Medic".

Unnecessary and inappropriate for CAP.

We already have GTM and Aircrew ratings that are compliant with CAP's mission set.

Just playing devil's advocate....GTM may be okay as a vanilla generic mission set....it may not be enough for the situation in MOWG.

So....again no problem with people adding new ratings....so long as they are not chaing CAP ratings.

I know that's the case in Virginia.  The Civil Air Patrol curriculum for GTM3 doesn't even come close to meeting the State Certification requirements for a Field Team Member.  As a Result the Virginia Wing in conjunction with the Virginia Department of Emergency Management host a Ground Search and Rescue college every year.  The graduates are CAP qualified at GTM1 and state certified as a Field Team Member.  They let CAP members from other wings attend and it's not terribly expensive, really all you're paying for is the Barracks and Food.

[Eclipse]

I know that's the case in Virginia.  The Civil Air Patrol curriculum for GTM3 doesn't even come close to meeting the State Certification requirements for a Field Team Member.  As a Result the Virginia Wing in conjunction with the Virginia Department of Emergency Management host a Ground Search and Rescue college every year.  The graduates are CAP qualified at GTM1 and state certified as a Field Team Member. 

And has this resulted in a large number of GT-centric missions the wing would have otherwise not been involved with?

[lordmonar]

I know that's the case in Virginia.  The Civil Air Patrol curriculum for GTM3 doesn't even come close to meeting the State Certification requirements for a Field Team Member.  As a Result the Virginia Wing in conjunction with the Virginia Department of Emergency Management host a Ground Search and Rescue college every year.  The graduates are CAP qualified at GTM1 and state certified as a Field Team Member. 

And has this resulted in a large number of GT-centric missions the wing would have otherwise not been involved with?

And if it hasn't?   Some places don't get many GT centric call outs....but one would assume that CAP would in Virginia would get ZERO call outs if they don't meet Virginia's Field Team Member requirements.

So long as Virgina Wing is not making the extra training a requirement to get GTM1....then what exactly is the problem?

[Eclipse]

Who said it's a problem?

However if they aren't getting missions because of the training, what's the point?
The message indicated GTM wasn't enough to be state certified. There's no reason to care unless it
brings missions.

[SARDOC]

I know that's the case in Virginia.  The Civil Air Patrol curriculum for GTM3 doesn't even come close to meeting the State Certification requirements for a Field Team Member.  As a Result the Virginia Wing in conjunction with the Virginia Department of Emergency Management host a Ground Search and Rescue college every year.  The graduates are CAP qualified at GTM1 and state certified as a Field Team Member. 

And has this resulted in a large number of GT-centric missions the wing would have otherwise not been involved with?

Yes, It has.  VDEM wouldn't call Civil Air Patrol unless they needed an Airplane.  Other than that, our Ground Teams were never requested until our members started getting certified with the state.

[Garibaldi]

I know that's the case in Virginia.  The Civil Air Patrol curriculum for GTM3 doesn't even come close to meeting the State Certification requirements for a Field Team Member.  As a Result the Virginia Wing in conjunction with the Virginia Department of Emergency Management host a Ground Search and Rescue college every year.  The graduates are CAP qualified at GTM1 and state certified as a Field Team Member. 

And has this resulted in a large number of GT-centric missions the wing would have otherwise not been involved with?

Yes, It has.  VDEM wouldn't call Civil Air Patrol unless they needed an Airplane.  Other than that, our Ground Teams were never requested until our members started getting certified with the state.

I've heard of similar issues in other states I've worked in. Once, in Arkansas, I even was told flat out that "CAP would never be called out by the ________ Department of Emergency Management. Their training is not on par with what we need, and their program is a joke." Even with a SARTECH II rating, ground team members wouldn't be called upon to assist in anything, not even to run donuts for the ICP.

[PHall]

I know that's the case in Virginia.  The Civil Air Patrol curriculum for GTM3 doesn't even come close to meeting the State Certification requirements for a Field Team Member.  As a Result the Virginia Wing in conjunction with the Virginia Department of Emergency Management host a Ground Search and Rescue college every year.  The graduates are CAP qualified at GTM1 and state certified as a Field Team Member. 

And has this resulted in a large number of GT-centric missions the wing would have otherwise not been involved with?

Yes, It has.  VDEM wouldn't call Civil Air Patrol unless they needed an Airplane.  Other than that, our Ground Teams were never requested until our members started getting certified with the state.

I've heard of similar issues in other states I've worked in. Once, in Arkansas, I even was told flat out that "CAP would never be called out by the ________ Department of Emergency Management. Their training is not on par with what we need, and their program is a joke." Even with a SARTECH II rating, ground team members wouldn't be called upon to assist in anything, not even to run donuts for the ICP.

Our lack of standardization in equipment, training and team make-up really hurts us.
The requesting agency has no idea what they will get.