First Aid requirements

[Ed Bos]

At the time, I held an appropriate position outside of CAP that would make me a qualified trainer, but I did not conduct the training under the auspices of any agency, and provided no certification other than signing off my students' SQTR.  I documented completion of the standard with a Participation Letter, and called it a day.

You can't provide training under the auspices of another organization without providing the full materials and recording the training with them.  That the point of
having an outside body do it.  I'd be willing to bet you violated your trainer agreement, which means they weren't certified.  In effect, you personally trained then with no backing organization.

As a point of clarification, CAP Ground Team members would be considered "bystanders" according to http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/24000/24700/24757/ngfatos.pdf, but internally we use this and OSHA guidance to determine what sort of first aid training meets the GTM3 requirement.

I'm not sure how that's relevent to this conversation.

They're not certified. They're familiarized with the material, which is all CAP requires. There's nothing in the regs that states that you need a card.

[Eclipse]

They're not certified. They're familiarized with the material, which is all CAP requires. There's nothing in the regs that states that you need a card.

60-3 disagrees.

As a private citizen or CAP member you are not authorized to provide first aid training.

Period. 

As an instructor for one of the authorized providers, you are not allowed to provide training without the full materials and
procedures of that organization.

Period.

One of the reasons the regulations and program(s) are in such a self-conflicting, occasionally ambiguous mess is well-intention,
but misguided members choosing expedience and LCD interpretation over the common sense real spirit they
know was actually intended when the regulation or policy, etc., was written.

This puts themselves, the membership, and the organization at risk for the cost of expediency.

[RangerConlin]

From 60-3

f. First Aid and Emergency Medical Care. CAP is not an emergency medical care or paramedic organization and should not advertise itself as such. CAP will not be the primary provider of medical support on missions or training events though qualified personnel can be used to support such activities. The only type of medical aid that should be administered by CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable treatment deemed necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering. This treatment must be executed by a person qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level. When first aid or higher medical training is required for qualification in a particular specialty, the expectation is that the qualification course includes both knowledge and practical skills training;first aid courses taken on-line only are not acceptable; though members are not considered employees when supporting operations, courses are expected to meet the National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational Settings available at http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/24000/24700/24757/ngfatos.pdf or ASTM F 2171-02(2009), Standard Guide for Defining the Performance of First Aid Providers in Occupational Settings. CAP medical personnel are not provided supplemental malpractice insurance coverage, and any care provided is at the members own risk. Though medical supplies and equipment are not normally provided to responders, any reasonable supplies used on training or actual missions may be submitted for reimbursement as long as sufficient justification is provided.

[RangerConlin]

From 60-3

f. First Aid and Emergency Medical Care. CAP is not an emergency medical care or paramedic organization and should not advertise itself as such. CAP will not be the primary provider of medical support on missions or training events though qualified personnel can be used to support such activities. The only type of medical aid that should be administered by CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable treatment deemed necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering. This treatment must be executed by a person qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level. When first aid or higher medical training is required for qualification in a particular specialty, the expectation is that the qualification course includes both knowledge and practical skills training;first aid courses taken on-line only are not acceptable; though members are not considered employees when supporting operations, courses are expected to meet the National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational Settings available at http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/24000/24700/24757/ngfatos.pdf or ASTM F 2171-02(2009), Standard Guide for Defining the Performance of First Aid Providers in Occupational Settings. CAP medical personnel are not provided supplemental malpractice insurance coverage, and any care provided is at the members own risk. Though medical supplies and equipment are not normally provided to responders, any reasonable supplies used on training or actual missions may be submitted for reimbursement as long as sufficient justification is provided.

In regards to rendering first aid, this clearly states that we are allowed to administer first aid in order to save a life or prevent suffering.  These are rather broad definitions, broad enough that it bothers me that we are not covered by something.

[Eclipse]

You missed the part that in order to provide that aid we have to be certified by an outside organization that we are competent in that care.

[RangerConlin]

Forgive me, I skipped over that.  I personally am a licensed MFR, so I skipped it.

It basically boils down to you need to have a card. I would suggest sticking with AHA or something big like that, but you need a card.  Keep up the card to avoid possible problems, dont administer aid outside of your scope of practice,  and dont be an idiot while administering aid.

[sarmed1]

The 160-1 is the only place where I see anything about being from a certifiying agency.

Under General duties of Health Services Personnel:

b. Provide or arrange for the provision of training in first aid, CPR and other life-saving
measures by a certifying agency (American Red Cross, American Heart Association, American
Safety and Health Institute, National Safety Council, etc.).

the 60-3 just states you have to have training if required for a specific specialty, the SQTR just says "Complete Basic First Aid" .. it doesnt specify training, certification, card or any period of validity/expiration.

mk

[Eclipse]

the 60-3 just states you have to have training if required for a specific specialty, the SQTR just says "Complete Basic First Aid" .. it doesnt specify training, certification, card or any period of validity/expiration.

60-3 contains the specification which has been quoted several times in this thread alone.

[SARDOC]

Yes. In order to meet Civil Air Patrol regulations, the First Aid training course is required to be compliant with the National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational Settings, (NGFATOS)  This Standard suggests that the training agency/instructor issue a Course Completion Card or a Course Completion Certificate but does not require it (please note: It's not a CERTIFICATION Card).  According, to the standard, the Instructor should be familiar with the concepts of basic First Aid.

The Card only signifies that the individual attended the course and demonstrated a Reasonable proficiency in practical skills.  NGFATOS does not even require a written test for a Completion card to be issued.  So if you wanted to teach a First Aid Class to your Squadron you could do it in as little as Four to Six Hours (according to the Standard).

There is a lot of "Should" in this standard that allows for a lot of flexibility.  However, I would still recommend one of the canned programs from your Local neighborhood First Aid agency. (ARC, AHA, ECSI, Etc...)  These programs provide a lot more credibility.

[Eclipse]

Oh Kay...

Then for the sake of argument, how does one substantiate completion of the training without the magic card?

And no one with a clue is actually fixating on a "card" - but a certificate, or "something" has to be presented to an SET
to substantiate completion of appropriate training as per the standard.

"My mom's a nurse."  or "I skimmed NGFATOS on the train on the way home tonight." doesn't meet it.

So if you wanted to teach a First Aid Class to your Squadron you could do it in as little as Four to Six Hours (according to the Standard).

"You" can't (as in a CAP member acting in that capacity).  Also, just saying you are meeting the standard, doesn't meet the standard.

Those outside agencies and organizations have structured certification programs for instructors, and in turn liability insurance should you incorrectly use those skills, or they are taught incorrectly.

Standardized tests, etc., etc., are up to the training agency.   What they decide is "appropriate" is up to them, because they are accepting the risk to the reputation and finances should they
be producing poorly trained individuals.

CAP has made it clear that this is the standard, like it or not.

Outside training with an expiration date.

[SARDOC]

Oh Kay...

Then for the sake of argument, how does one substantiate completion of the training without the magic card?

The Standard is meant for People whose occupation requires them to have the First Aid Training.  OSHA leaves the Documentation of the training up to the particular employer as to not create an unreasonable burden on the Employer.  An OSHA Inspector would just be happy to ask on an inspection for the employer to provide the documentation.  It Could be the signed roster when the employer holds it's annual First Aid day accompanied by preferably the course curriculum to show that it met the standard.

OSHA regulations are specifically vague to that effect until there is a need to be more specific.

[Eclipse]

How about a relevent example.

Or this.

Take the class, scan the card, when it expires take the class again.

So much wasted time and mental hoops just to avoid being proficient in something important.
Everyone wants to "save lives" and wear the badges, no one wants to do the work.

Look no further for why CAP is where it is.

[SARDOC]

Standardized tests, etc., etc., are up to the training agency.   What they decide is "appropriate" is up to them, because they are accepting the risk to the reputation and finances should they
be producing poorly trained individuals.

Correct, Testing is up to the training agency but not the Civil Air Patrol adopted NGFATOS Standard.  The Standard doesn't require it because OSHA doesn't want to be responsible for those with limited intelligence skills or literacy level to lose a job they would otherwise be qualified for because they couldn't pass a First Aid Written Test.

[SARDOC]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Civil Air Patrol requiring the training. I suggest it and teach it under the auspices of the Training Organization that certifies me, I do also issue cards, because my training agency requires it... for a fee of course because that's how they pay their overhead.

That being said, you just can't just make up rules, to suit your argument.  It is the best recommended practice in every scenario, but because of the nature of our Organization they've decided to not make it a requirement even citing it as the example in the regulation.  They even adopted a Standard that typically would not otherwise apply to us. (Probably because it's the best written national standard for First Aid available in the Public Domain) However, the NGFATOS standard doesn't require it either because OSHA's Goal is get employers to comply without creating any unnecessary regulation or burden on the employer (this scenario doesn't apply to us either).  More later.

[SarDragon]

If recertification is not required, then why did my GTM3 and FLM quals expire on exactly the same day that my first aid expired, even though the other tasks were all current?

[Eclipse]

If recertification is not required, then why did my GTM3 and FLM quals expire on exactly the same day that my first aid expired, even though the other tasks were all current?

Maybe they fixed the programming as they indicated to me they likely would.

[lordmonar]

All of this can be solved if CAP quite simply  a) Identified a specific or group of specific agencies and courses that satisfied the requirements or b) build our own training program.

What they got now is okay....but leaves a lot of room for interpretation and/or misunderstanding.  It also is a little lacking IMHO of what you need for a field team in the first aid department.

Building our own training is not really that hard.

Break down what we want the GTM to be competent in into 10-15 tasks and build a SQTR.
Write a task guide and a training guide (just like we did for GTM 1-3).

No harm, no foul, no legal issues. 

That solves the whole "I got to spend another $40 for a stupid card" issue.  It solves the issue of "the reg says ARC Heart Saver Plus t.m. but that course does not exist anymore it is now Live Saver Easy t.m.....what do I do" issue.

WE set what we want our GTMs to know.  We Beg, Borrow, Steal the training from the military.  We tailor it for our own purposes and we move on.

[Eclipse]

I agree completely, and I'd also be strongly in favor of allowing our HSOs to provide this training and allow them to actually use their skills.
One could make the argument that the BSA has been doing this for years - I've basically spent the last 30 years of my life "relearning" what
I originally did as a Scout, however the BSA doesn't have an operational mission, so the likelyhood of ever using it is next to zero for anything
but buddy care.

That opens a lot of doors on both the good and bad side of the building, though.

[lordmonar]

I agree completely, and I'd also be strongly in favor of allowing our HSOs to provide this training and allow them to actually use their skills.
One could make the argument that the BSA has been doing this for years - I've basically spent the last 30 years of my life "relearning" what
I originally did as a Scout, however the BSA doesn't have an operational mission, so the likelyhood of ever using it is next to zero for anything
but buddy care.

That opens a lot of doors on both the good and bad side of the building, though.

That is exactly what we use our first aid requirement for anyways.   I'm not advocating that we start certifying EMTs or anything like that.
I am saying that we need more training then the average day care provider is required to learn....because the situations are different.

ARC built their training around certain assumptions.   The victim is going to be known some way to the rescuer, the victim will need care in an urban/suburban environment where EMT services are 10-15 minutes away and that "calling for help" may require you to go to the next room for the phone.

CAP GT ops are not going to be like that.  Calling for help may require you to hike 30 minutes to get out of the radio dead zone.  You may be an hour or more away from the nearest EMT services...and you may be hours away from the nearest road even if the EMT's can be where you left the van in 15 minutes.

So.....we need a more "wilderness" first aid course....with a lot of emphasis on patient transport, fracture/sprain/strain care, an emphasis on "trail" injuries and such.

While yes this is certainly something our HSO's can do to actually have a job.....but I would not restrict it to just HSOs.  It would be just another GTM task that any GTM SETS evaluator can sign off on.

[sarmed1]

This is by far the easiest and cheapest option I have found yet (comprimise that is)

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=13156.msg238480#msg238480

http://ecsinstitute.org/

Standard first aid, CPR and AED- one time investment for teh instructor kit $263.  Books are $11 if you get more than 5.  Cards are supposed to come with each book, but are basically $5 each if you order them seperately

mk