First Aid requirements

[HGjunkie]

I looked up 60-3 for the requirements for first aid courses for ES ratings, and it's pretty vague.

Are Heartsaver First Aid courses deemed acceptable for CAP use? The last class I took was an ARC CPR/1st aid/AED but expired recently.

[a2capt]

I can't recall right this second where .. but when I was trying to figure this out "once and for all", I recall finding a curriculum listed and had to go and figure that if those sections were covered, then we're done. Because no where does it say who.

..and your sign off people have to buy it.

[Eclipse]

Did it meet the OSHA requirements for First Aid as indicated in 60-3?

If it was just CPR / AED, then the answer is "no".

Neither meets the standard or is required.

[HGjunkie]

..and your sign off people have to buy it.

Apparently that's the hard part... I've been told on numerous occasions that FLWG will reject an SQTR if it doesn't pass muster, for whatever reason.

Here's what the class covers:

[Eclipse]

OK, but it either meets the standard or it doesn't, and the're no way to tell from a topic list.

Heartsaver should be able to tell you that.

[Luis R. Ramos]

ALCON-

The Heartsaver First Aid class is the only First Aid class the American Heart Association gives. This class can be given with or without CPR AED.

Eclipse, Heartsaver cannot say anything on it as Heartsaver is not a company, an agency, or institution.

Heartsaver is an AHA classification for their job-related curriculum of First Aid and CPR classes for the non-medical responder. Just like the AHA classifies the CPR classes for the healthcare provider BLS for the Healthcare Provider.[/i]

You do not need CPR for CAP.

The card will say Heartsaver First Aid if only First Aid was taken, Heartsaver First Aid CPR/AED if both First Aid and CPR were taken, and Heartsaver CPR AED if only CPR was taken. We already know CPR alone is not accepted. All are part of the AHA curriculum.

The ultimate test is if once  you submit it, it gets rejected by the SET crew.

I can tell you it is ok, but upload a copy of your card and see if it is approved. And then tell us.

Or are you asking because you are looking for a class to take? If so, I submitted mine and it was accepted. As a matter of fact, New York SARTAC offers it just because it is a GTM3 requirement.

Flyer

[HGjunkie]

I would, but I'm lacking the disposable income to test the waters for a first aid class... right now it's either $90 for an ARC course or $30 for this.

I wish this was spelled out a little better. Maybe I should just ask FLWG/ES if they'll reject it or not.

[Luis R. Ramos]

What is the mystery? The regs have to be the way they are to take care of the way these classes change. When I started taking these classes and becoming instructor for them, the American Red Cross taught Multimedia First Aid, Standard First Aid, and another more advanced First Aid class.

Multimedia First Aid was like a basic First Aid class, yet would go in far more detail than the current First Aid classes offered by either ARC or AHA. But the content changed, since now we have EMT and Paramedics that can arrive well before the skills taught by those classes are needed. MMFA also covered splinting and  litter carry. Not covered by AHA First Aid.

CPR? I have taken and taught CPR in three distinct periods. In 1980 we taught the ABC, or Airway, Breathing, and Compression. We taught to open the airway by 1) one hand under the neck, the other on the forehead, 2) to listen, look, feel for breaths. If witnessing a heart attack, to thump the chest before compressions. We taught that you deliver four breaths before starting compressions, and after starting compressions, you give two breaths after I believe at that time were 18 compressions. Do not recall exactly as it was almost thirty years ago. Obstructed airway? We taught and practiced what to do in case of the responsive and unresponsive adult and infant. We turned the adult and slapped him in the back!

CPR in the 1990s we taught ABC, but no more lifting the neck, just pulling the chin up. We still had one hand on the forehead... No more precordial thump...

CPR in the 2010 is taught by following CAB sequence. No more practicing the obstructed adult, and no more turning an unresponsive adult over to give backslaps. Now we teach to do 30 compressions, 2 breaths, we do not look, listen, feel for breath but only look, etc.

If our regs become more precise in this, it causes the same problems the NRA badge is causing:misinterpretation.

Go ahead and take the Heartsaver First Aid class. As long as it is one in which you do practice with an instructor some skills. There are classes offered online, but these are spelled out as not acceptable in our regs.

Flyer

[Eclipse]

I wish this was spelled out a little better. Maybe I should just ask FLWG/ES if they'll reject it or not.

Flaying about in the road is much more productive.

Calling wing and asking, and/or calling the ARC and asking them if it meets the OSHA standard closes the discussion in 1-2 phone calls.

[lordmonar]

I would, but I'm lacking the disposable income to test the waters for a first aid class... right now it's either $90 for an ARC course or $30 for this.

I wish this was spelled out a little better. Maybe I should just ask FLWG/ES if they'll reject it or not.

Then have your squadron ES officer call the wing ES officer and get a rulling.

This is not rocket science.....if FLWG is strict....then FLWG should have a way of communicating to their people what First Aid Courses count toward the SQTR requirement.

[CAPSGT]

In a roundabout way, the CAP standards do require CPR training as well.  If you read the NGFATOS document cited, some of the topics required as core elements are Airway and Circulation training, which typically comes from a CPR training course instead of a First Aid training course.

The key elements to look for in a course to determine if it meets the standards or not are:

1) Is there an element to the course which an instructor validates (or provides remedial training if they cannot validate) that the student understands the material?  This can be accomplished through practical exercises, written examination, oral quiz, etc.
2) Does the course cover the following key topics:
  -Safety
  -Legal & Ethical Issues
  -Moving & Positioning Victims
  -Assessing a victim
  -Airways
  -Circulation
  -Medical Emergencies/Sudden Illness
  -Bleeding, Shock, and Tissue Damage
  -Injuries to Bones & Muscles

If the answer is yes to both of those, the course meets the standard.

A lot of online First Aid/CPR training sites have popped up online, but have no instructor to personally validate that somebody learned something.  They are not necessarily subject to the scrutiny and medical review that many of the major providers subject themselves to.

As a general rule, the big 3 that are generally accepted are American Heart Association, American Red Cross, and the National Safety Council.  When it comes to CPR, AHA is certainly the gold standard, but I don't know a ton about their First Aid course.  From what was posted earlier as quick bullet points, I would say that it probably does meet the standard.

I know that ARC and NSC (I teach First Aid & CPR for NSC) are now offering online versions of their courses as well, but their online model still requires an authorized skills tester to administer an in person test following the online training.  This would still meet the standard CAP requires.

[SARDOC]

This might answer a lot of questions.  If your Wing places stricter standards they need to delineate what those standards are.

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1309/kw/First%20aid/session/L3RpbWUvMTM3Njc4ODk4MC9zaWQvdGU0LXkxeWw%3D   

[Storm Chaser]

I would, but I'm lacking the disposable income to test the waters for a first aid class... right now it's either $90 for an ARC course or $30 for this.

I wish this was spelled out a little better. Maybe I should just ask FLWG/ES if they'll reject it or not.

The Heartsaver(R) First Aid course from the American Heart Association (AHA) does meet the criteria and will be accepted in FLWG. The difference in cost between this course and the American Red Cross (ARC) one is that the latter includes CPR (ARC doesn't offer First Aid only anymore), while the former (AHA) doesn't.

First Aid courses are accepted for ES qualifications as long as they meet the National Guidelines for First Aid in Occupational Settings or the Standard Guide for Defining the Performance of First Aid Providers in Occupational Settings. Normally, courses offered by AHA, ARC and ASHI are acceptable. One thing to keep in mind is that for the First Aid course to be accepted, it can't be a purely online course; it must have a hands-on, practical skills training.

[RTFB]

Florida Wing has completely gone rogue with respect to many ES training and qualification requirements.  As for the question of First Aid training, FLWG has unilaterally implemented its own requirement that one must have an unexpired first aid card.  The second sentence of CAPR 60-3 states: Practices, procedures, and standards prescribed in this regulation are mandatory and may not be supplemented or changed locally without the prior approval of NHQ CAP/DO.  Nowhere in 60-3 nor in the SQTRs for the specialties requiring first aid training does it state or imply that one's training must be "unexpired" or have any recurrency requirement (other than the requirement to renew the specialty itself).  The task is simply to Complete Basic First Aid Training or Equivalent.  By imposing an expiration date requirement, FLWG is changing the procedures specified in 60-3, and thus is clearly out of line.

But it gets worse.

The person responsible for approving OpsQual tasks at wing level has no knowledge of the field of emergency medicine and its many training modalities.  As a result, he rejects anything that doesn't sound familiar to him or have convincing artwork or wording on the card.  When the gatekeeper for approving first aid training doesn't know what ACLS or PALS is, I call that a problem.  To add insult to injury, there is no published list of acceptable agencies that will definitively please this whimsical creature.  So you run the risk of wasting money and time by taking a top-notch course that might give you CEUs for your professional license, yet it won't tick the box on CAP's mickey-mouse SQTR because Mr. Man hasn't heard of it.

[Eclipse]

You might want to spend a little more time reading that reg you cite before calling people out in public.
In this case, it isn't the only document which is relevent.

1. It is not "First Aid or equivalent". It is First Aid to a specific standard as indicated, specifically NGFATOS
a link to which can be found in 60-3. Not all training meets this. For example, the AED classes provided by
many school health classes and corporations do not, in and of themselves, meet the standard.

2. NGFATOS clearly indicates that retraining is at the discretion of the certifying agency, and that the
min/max must take into consideration a number of factors, including laws and the types of assumed
duties.

3. Just like a driver's license, when your card expires, you are no longer certified per whatever agency
or organization provided your training.  Ergo, you no longer possess any means to substantiate that
you have the required skill.

As a point of information NHQ has indicated to me and others that FA training not being an expiring item
has always been considered an "issue", and will likely be corrected on the SQTRs in the near future (60-3
is being revised as we speak).  Until then, members are expected to act "on their honor" in this regard.

As a reminder, assuming you are a member, you took an oath to follow the directives of those above you,
and abide by decisions they make, including ones you don't agree with.  In this case, if the training you are
referring to demonstrably meets the NGFATOS standard, and the wing won't accept it, then you have the
grounds for what would likely be a rather simple complaint.  Otherwise, whether it's "top-notch" or not is
irrelevent, since the standard is crystal clear.  And for the record, there is no shortage of organizations
which can provide that training if you are inclined to seek it out.

Your wing's ESO does not need a medical board of review for every completion card loaded in eservices,
either, since again, the standard is clear, and the training either meets it or it doesn't.  Usually
a Google search or a phone call can clear that up quickly.

One thing is certain, though, being derogatory about your wing staff, or CAP in general, isn't going to fix the problem.

[Eclipse]

ACLS and PALS, in and of themselves, clearly don't meet the standard, both by their definition and by common sense.

ACLS is designed for healthcare professionals who either direct or participate in the management of cardiopulmonary arrest and other cardiovascular emergencies. This includes personnel in emergency response, emergency medicine, intensive care and critical care units.

PALS:
The PALS Course is for healthcare providers who respond to emergencies in infants and children. These include personnel in emergency response, emergency medicine, intensive care and critical care units such as physicians, nurses, paramedics and others who need a PALS course completion card for job or other requirements.

In other words, if you qualify for this training, some other license or ID card already in your wallet would more then fulfill
the first aid requirement.

[tsrup]

Not to mention that ACLS and PALS are not first aid equivalents.

If you can justify for any ALS type course to me in a CAP context, then I am all ears.


In all practicality and legality, you will not ever be pushing epinephrine and manually cardioverting someone while wearing a CAP uniform. 


Sounds like someone tired to pull one over on their ESO and failed.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I am an American Heart Association instructor.

The only class that AHA offers that covers the standard is the Heartsaver First Aid. This class can be taught with or without the CPR AED module.

The AHA Heartsaver CPR AED class can also be taught without a First Aid module, but Heartsaver CPR AED module alone will not satisfy the referenced requirement as it would lack First Aid.

In other words, if the card says Heartsaver First Aid CPR AED or Heartsaver First Aid the requirement is covered. If it says Heartsaver CPR AED, it is not covered.

I am not a certified ACLS or PALS instructor yet I teach BLS for the Healthcare Provider and Heartsaver classes. Several times as I teach a BLS for the Healthcare Provider class, the students are also registered for ACLS or PALS.

In other words, by themselves ACLS and PALS are nothing. You still have to take the Basic Life Support class.

And tell me, PALS is Pediatric Advanced Life Support. How many of our cadets are infants? So even if CPR would still be required, PALS would still not be helpful as it does not address personnel we would be working with.

Flyer

[RTFB]

You guys are missing my point about ACLS/PALS.  I brought them up as an example of this person's ignorance of some of the most widely recognized healthcare certifications.  I know full well that neither course would qualify as a first aid course under the NGFATOS requirements, and I have not attempted to pass them off as such. 

As for the issue of expiration dates, many agencies now avoid using the terms "certification" and "expiration", preferring instead to use terms like "documentation of training" and "recommended date" for retraining.  So in these cases, the (dis)approver's argument that one's first aid card is "expired" would be incorrect and not valid grounds for disapproving the task.  Furthermore, certificates of training that do not have expiration/retraining dates at all have been rejected by FLWG.

[Eclipse]

As for the issue of expiration dates, many agencies now avoid using the terms "certification" and "expiration", preferring instead to use terms like "documentation of training" and "recommended date" for retraining.  So in these cases, the (dis)approver's argument that one's first aid card is "expired" would be incorrect and not valid grounds for disapproving the task.  Furthermore, certificates of training that do not have expiration/retraining dates at all have been rejected by FLWG.

Of course they are rejected, since a First Aid card without an expiration date doesn't meet the standard.

What certifying body was submitted that was rejected?  Because there aren't any that are compliant that don't have expiration dates.