Boy Scout SAR merit badge

[Garibaldi]

Gee, the military ONCE had this same view. However, I'm sure reading between your lines, you don't feel we should discriminate. Well, we do. We do a lot. We discriminate against convicted felons,  ANYONE who is listed as a sex offender (regardless what degree or offense it might have been). We discriminate against anyone who has a record of battery or abuse rather it's beating children or their spouse. We discriminate against anyone that could be a threat to the boys. Heck, we even discriminate against smokers.  Not saying your GAY people are a threat but they do make people feel uncomfortable so that's enough for the policy, for now at least. Now, it took the Navy years before it shaved off its beards. It took the Coast Guard till 1984 to do the same. It took the military years before we allowed women be in charge of units designed for combat. Matter in fact, I think it was the CG who first allowed women to command 95ft patrol boats. We discriminate against raciest. So, as far as the GAY thing goes, I can bet, in about 20 or so years, you might see gays be open and be in scouts. However, till the MAGORITY of parents keep telling the scouts they don't want gays mixing with the boys, I can bet that's going to change anytime soon. Now, you can sit back and pick on one thing the scouts discriminate against, but as you can see, I'm sure there are MANY parents out there today who are happy with our standards. So,  you may choose to keep your kids out of the program. But your just cheating them out of an experience that just might serve them one day. I never was a scout myself but I have one son, an eagle scout, and one as a star scout who are. All I can say is it's just as enjoyable to watch them start their first fire, cook a meal for 20 and sleep in all kinds of weather. As good as it is to seem them get their first touch down, or drive off on their first date. Priceless. Just something to think about before you pull this gay card thing mate.

Discriminating against convicted felons? Sorry, but you sorta forfeited your right to lead any sort of normal life once the gavel went down and you started your prison sentence. OK, that's a bit extreme I admit, because a lot of folks who have completed their sentences and probation and parole get a certificate of restoration of civil rights. Hell, some guy even petitioned then-President Clinton before he left office for a pardon so he could fly for CAP. I don't know what the circumstances were but I think it was granted.

I don't call keeping felons, rapists, child molesters, murderers, thieves, and embezzlers out of CAP any sort of discrimination. We don't even have any sort of rules other than "good moral character" keeping gays out of CAP. That codicil would also potentially eliminate pagans, Wiccans, Druids, people with alternative sexual lifestyles other than homosexuality, illegal aliens (yes I said it), and Catholic priests as well.

I'm not gonna go into the whole gay thing because to me it's a non-issue. In my 30-odd years of being in CAP I have yet to meet someone that I even suspected was gay. Not to say that there aren't any at all, I just haven't met any.

Discriminating against smokers? Where in the rules does it say we can't smoke? In CAP we have pretty much the same rules about smoking with one difference: we just can't do it in front of the cadets.

My point is, officially we, meaning the CAP corporation, are not an organization that discriminates willy-nilly. We have rules in place to protect not only the members but the organization from lawsuits and dangerous potential members. That's not discrimination; it's just good common sense.

[Flying Pig]

Discriminating against convicted felons? Sorry, but you sorta forfeited your right to lead any sort of normal life once the gavel went down and you started your prison sentence. OK, that's a bit extreme I admit, because a lot of folks who have completed their sentences and probation and parole get a certificate of restoration of civil rights. Hell, some guy even petitioned then-President Clinton before he left office for a pardon so he could fly for CAP. I don't know what the circumstances were but I think it was granted.

CAP is a non-profit corporation.  I don't think the President has any say in who we allow in to CAP nor does he have any say in who we allow to be a mission pilot for that matter. Appeal to the President for a pardon, sure, happens all the time.  Appeal to the President to make CAP let you fly?  I doubt it. 

[lordmonar]

To be fair to RadiomanUSCG.......yes we do discriminate as the word is defined by websters.

We do not discriminate based on gender, religion, race, disability, sexual orintation as defined by the DoD policy.

That being said....CAP and the BSA have an absolute right to decide who they are going to let into their organisations.........hence the discussion. 

Just a side question....how does CAP discriminate against smokers?  That's a new one to me.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Another RM another rant. Given the recent revalation of molestation and cover up in the BSA (guess how many were gays?) I think their policies look even sillier than before.

[RogueLeader]

We do not discriminate based on  sexual orintation as defined by the DoD policy.

Cite please.

I'm not saying we do, or should, just where is that in the regs?

[Cool Mace]

We do not discriminate based on  sexual orintation as defined by the DoD policy.

Cite please.

I'm not saying we do, or should, just where is that in the regs?

Every member has to go through the non discrimination training when they first join. Cadets and seniors alike. 

[RogueLeader]

Section 2: Civil Air Patrol Policy of Nondiscrimination. It is Civil Air Patrol policy that no member shall be excluded from participation in, denied the benefits of, or subjected to discrimination in any CAP program or activity on the basis of race, sex, age, color, religion, national origin, or disability (formerly handicap). It is Civil Air Patrol policy that no applicant meeting CAP's minimum age requirement will be denied membership in CAP on the basis of race, sex, age, color, religion, national origin, or disability (formerly handicap).

[RogueLeader]

We do not discriminate based on  sexual orintation as defined by the DoD policy.

Cite please.

I'm not saying we do, or should, just where is that in the regs?

Every member has to go through the non discrimination training when they first join. Cadets and seniors alike.

Yes, but by CAP regulation, Sexual Orientation is NOT a protected class.  See above quote from 36-1.

[Cool Mace]

This is true according to the text. But I wouldn't want to be the one to try and fight it. I think any member would be dumb to try and discriminate against sexual orientation, IMHO.

[RogueLeader]

This is true according to the text. But I wouldn't want to be the one to try and fight it. I think any member would be dumb to try and discriminate against sexual orientation, IMHO.

I'm not saying I would either.  I'm just saying what is.  I can't abide false information being put out.

[Майор Хаткевич]

This is true according to the text. But I wouldn't want to be the one to try and fight it. I think any member would be dumb to try and discriminate against sexual orientation, IMHO.

I'm not saying I would either.  I'm just saying what is.  I can't abide false information being put out.

Not mentioned because it's a non-factor.

CAP never had a ban on Gays. CAP never had a DADT. CAP has no need to lay it out as a protected class (which I do not believe it is, federally), or as a "now allowed" type of deal.

[RogueLeader]

Not mentioned because it's a non-factor.

CAP never had a ban on Gays. CAP never had a DADT. CAP has no need to lay it out as a protected class (which I do not believe it is, federally), or as a "now allowed" type of deal.

See:

To be fair to RadiomanUSCG.......yes we do discriminate as the word is defined by websters.

We do not discriminate based on gender, religion, race, disability, sexual orintation as defined by the DoD policy.

That being said....CAP and the BSA have an absolute right to decide who they are going to let into their organisations.........hence the discussion. 

Just a side question....how does CAP discriminate against smokers?  That's a new one to me.

bold for emphasis.  That is not what the regs say.  That is the point I'm trying to make.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The regs don't say anything. Lordmonar was wrong on origin, but he's not wrong on the policy we hold.

[Garibaldi]

Discriminating against convicted felons? Sorry, but you sorta forfeited your right to lead any sort of normal life once the gavel went down and you started your prison sentence. OK, that's a bit extreme I admit, because a lot of folks who have completed their sentences and probation and parole get a certificate of restoration of civil rights. Hell, some guy even petitioned then-President Clinton before he left office for a pardon so he could fly for CAP. I don't know what the circumstances were but I think it was granted.

CAP is a non-profit corporation.  I don't think the President has any say in who we allow in to CAP nor does he have any say in who we allow to be a mission pilot for that matter. Appeal to the President for a pardon, sure, happens all the time.  Appeal to the President to make CAP let you fly?  I doubt it.

What happened was he was denied membership due to something he did as a youth and it was hindering his application. He appealed to Clinton for a pardon so he could join. Let me see if I can find the link.

here it is:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2026&dat=19981225&id=uswqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=6dAFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6483,2122486

[That Anonymous Guy]

Anyone else notice the article on Bin Laden in the lower left?

[RogueLeader]

The regs don't say anything. Lordmonar was wrong on origin, but he's not wrong on the policy we hold.

Yes they do.  Yes he is on one detail.

Section 2: Civil Air Patrol Policy of Nondiscrimination. It is Civil Air Patrol policy that no member shall be excluded from participation in, denied the benefits of, or subjected to discrimination in any CAP program or activity on the basis of race, sex, age, color, religion, national origin, or disability (formerly handicap). It is Civil Air Patrol policy that no applicant meeting CAP's minimum age requirement will be denied membership in CAP on the basis of race, sex, age, color, religion, national origin, or disability (formerly handicap).

There is no mention of sexual orientation being a protected class, and thus no protection.

You don't have to like it.  That is a direct quote of the entire paragraph in CAPR 36-01.  Thus, a commander can deny membership if said applicant if so desired, and the member does not have any protection or recourse (other than going to a different unit.)

I'm not saying that they would or should, just can.

[Garibaldi]

Anyone else notice the article on Bin Laden in the lower left?

*shudder*

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm not saying that they would or should, just can.

And then one whiff of this to NHQ, and the CC gets replaced and the member, if passing the background check becomes a member.

I seriously doubt NHQ would want that type of egg on their face if something like that hit the media.

[RogueLeader]

I'm not saying that they would or should, just can.

And then one whiff of this to NHQ, and the CC gets replaced and the member, if passing the background check becomes a member.

What reg was broken?  You may not agree, and I understand what you are saying, but there is grounds for an IG complaint if the CC was removed.

I seriously doubt NHQ would want that type of egg on their face if something like that hit the media.

I agree, but the CC has that right to make those calls, and NHQ should back up the CC as there was nothing improperly applied by the regs.  NHQ can always amend the reg to include that protection, if so chosen by the powers that be.  Until then, they get to deal if it does.

[RadiomanUSCG]

Gee, from the response, seems I touched a nerve. Go back and READ my post fly guys. I would have ASSUMED that the AF enlists people who can think between the lines, but I've been wrong before.  Here, I'll make it easy. When the dinosaurs are all dead and gone (you know, the ones who write policy?), you will continue to see pockets of resistance accepting a life style that the rule makers find left of center.  Now, as we have seen, some policy has changed but go back and look at history. You can’t ask the majority to accept a life style they feel is wrong.  And funny thing too. Those of you who are serving in the AF (military in general) knew how the military treats it’s females and their rules on gays, but you still re-enlisted or stayed in.  So, does it make you feel big beating up on an organization that has done more good than harm to those who have earn the rank of eagle?  It’s a private organization who has ties to the military rather anyone likes it or not.  The military recognizes the skills these boys bring to the table and that’s why when they leave boot camp, they leave one rank above the normal recruit.  So, why not write your fearless AF General  and question them why the military pays homage to a bunch of kids who are being taught to be homophobic?  I’m sure that will go well for ya. 
The military isn’t perfect. Our govt isn’t perfect and nor are the Boy Scouts, 4H or FHA organizations.  Everyone still has their pet peeves but I think for the most part, we are trying to work it out or wait it out. As far as I’m concerned, the military still discriminates against women but that’s another thread. This one has been hijacked long enough. 

Now, back to the SUBJECT of this thread. The scouts SAR merit badge seems like a mix of wilderness survival, first aid, Emergency prep, camping, hiking, orienteering and with a touch of safety.  One poster took a stab at how lame it was. We are not teaching these “kids” to take over a rescue coordination center but to learn and respect  the planning and execution process. Maybe it will teach them not to become a statistic. Some of our eagles went on to be EMT’s, Firemen, Army medics, 2 brothers are both Air Force with one a PJ and the other, well, he rather people not know but he travels a lot ;-) and OH MY GOD, even a Coast Guard boarding officer.  We had a couple who worked with the county sheriff during the summer in a program that put them on horses and atv’s during search activities (under supervision of course).  They will learn the lingo, methods and what goes on at from the command level down to the different  branches of the SAR team(s). I really fail to see why anyone has a problem with that. If a scout or group of scouts learn something that saves someone’s life one day, even if it’s their own, then the program is worth it. I’m sure none of you have a problem with that. But like I said, I could be wrong.