Ground Team composition

[flyguy06]

This is for all you Ground Team Gurus.

Back in the day when I was interetsted in ES and ground team operations we organized our Ground Team in the following way. I was wondering how you guys organize your teams today.

We had the follwing personnel:

1 Ground Team Leader (a Senior Member)
1 Asst. Ground Team Leader (a Senior Member)
1 ELT operator
1 Radio operator
2 Medics
2 Engineers ( to move away debries and mrk off the crash site  with the "Do not cross" Tape)
2 note takers ( Take pictures of scene, interview witnesses, and aw a sketch of the crashsite)

This was before the days of SARTECH and GTM1, 2 and 3. I dont know how its done today

[Eclipse]

1 Leader, 3 members - all trained the same (at least GT3).

We don't have medics anymore, and we don't have "asst GTL's".

Most ILWG teams are either all seniors or mostly seniors.

The paractical realities of waking up kids at 2am. or their ability to self-transport at that timeis  self-limiting.

Considering we probably only have 100 people in the state that are actually current in Ground ops, putting 10 people per team is not going to happen.

[flyguy06]

See thats unusual for me in Atlanta. I hardly ever see Senior member ground team members.I am sure they are out there, but Idont see them very much. Its mostly cadets. 

If most wings are like that then that may explain why you gys are so ES gung ho

[Eclipse]

Well, I don't know about gung-ho, but we do have the busiest airport in the world (I refuse to recognize ATL ), and a LOT of larger GA airports.

I don't know how many the state gets total, but we probably get 2-5 ELTs a month in Group 22 alone.

We have a fair number of cadets involved in ES, but the vast majority are Seniors.

It might have something to do with the fact that we have a number of NESA staffers, too.

Most seniors I know joined for ES...

[lordmonar]

See thats unusual from wher eI am from. I hardly ever see Senior member ground team members. Its mostly cadets. We dont get a lot of misions at 2 am that require a GT either though.

If most wings are like that then that may explain why you gys are so ES gung ho

How can you have a ground team when you can't drive CAP vehicles?

[RiverAux]

I suspect that he meant that most of the GTMS are cadets with only a few seniors there to drive the van. 

[lordmonar]

1 Leader, 3 members - all trained the same (at least GT3).

We don't have medics anymore, and we don't have "asst GTL's".

Most ILWG teams are either all seniors or mostly seniors.

The paractical realities of waking up kids at 2am. or their ability to self-transport at that timeis  self-limiting.

Considering we probably only have 100 people in the state that are actually current in Ground ops, putting 10 people per team is not going to happen.

Not to mention that it would take 2 vehicles to transport them and their equipment.

[RiverAux]

Ground Team composition is usually dictated by who is actually willing to answer their phone at 10PM....

Seriously though we don't get very specialized since you never know who will be on any particular ground team.  Need to think of it like a Special Forces team in that everybody should be able to do almost everything in a pinch. 

[Chris Jacobs]

I was actually thinking about this problem the other day also.  Obviously you can't always count on every person being there, but you can have a plan in place for which jobs you are going to fill.  if you have 15 GT people on your active list and you have 6 jobs that need to be filled on every mission, i think you could find 6 out of 15 to go.  And having people specialize on certain things could only help make us look better.

i was also working on having a set ground team for my squadron.  Not just a pool of qualified people but a group of people that are dedicated to the idea of an actual set team.  I was thinking of giving every one a job so that we could accomplish more.  Have people be in charge of PAO, Logistics, Comm and so on.  these jobs would be to maintain the team continually. 

So i would love to hear from people about what jobs they feel are necessary for while being on a mission, and if you have any ideas off of the mission.

[lordmonar]

How many jobs do you need on the team?

Let's see.  While on the road....a driver, and an observer.  The observer helps navigate, monitor the ELT and operate the radio.

On the ground.  Elt Operator and and a navigator.

You physicaly need 4 people on your team (5 by NIMS standards to include a medic) put how many actions do you need to do at the same time?  Heck the GTL is can do everthing if he had enough hands.  The other guys just have to look for the crash site.

[flyguy06]

See thats unusual from wher eI am from. I hardly ever see Senior member ground team members. Its mostly cadets. We dont get a lot of misions at 2 am that require a GT either though.

If most wings are like that then that may explain why you gys are so ES gung ho

How can you have a ground team when you can't drive CAP vehicles?

The GTL or Asst. GTL (senior members) drive

[Eclipse]

See thats unusual from wher eI am from. I hardly ever see Senior member ground team members. Its mostly cadets. We dont get a lot of misions at 2 am that require a GT either though.

If most wings are like that then that may explain why you gys are so ES gung ho

How can you have a ground team when you can't drive CAP vehicles?

The GTL or Asst. GTL (senior members) drive

I've seen this a couple times here, what, exactly is an "asst GTL".

If they aren't rated for ES, they don't go.  If they are, they are just a GTM on the team.

[RiverAux]

It never hurts to designate somebody ahead of time to take over if something happens to the GTL. 

[Eclipse]

It never hurts to designate somebody ahead of time to take over if something happens to the GTL. 

If something happens to the GTL, you come home.  We're not the Green Berets.

[RiverAux]

Yes, but who is taking charge of the team in the meantime?  Who is deciding where to take the GTL?  Who makes the decision to go home?  Highest rated ES person there?  Highest rank?  Highest current position of authority in the squadron? 

That is why you decide ahead of time and make sure everybody knows.

[flyguy06]

See thats unusual from wher eI am from. I hardly ever see Senior member ground team members. Its mostly cadets. We dont get a lot of misions at 2 am that require a GT either though.

If most wings are like that then that may explain why you gys are so ES gung ho

How can you have a ground team when you can't drive CAP vehicles?

The GTL or Asst. GTL (senior members) drive

I've seen this a couple times here, what, exactly is an "asst GTL".

If they aren't rated for ES, they don't go.  If they are, they are just a GTM on the team.

When i say Asst. GTL. I am referencing the make up of "my" previous GT organization structure. Asst. GTL is a postion not a qualification. You can have a 30 person Ground Team, but you can only have one leader. So, in my Ground Team, the GTL and Asst GTL are BOTH qualified GTL's but postion wise, one is the leader and one is the assistant. When the leader has to go away for some reason, the Asst GTL steps up. He is already a qualified GTL

[Pace]

The way my old squadron trained was have a 6-10 person team assigned as the primary ground team since invariably one or more people wouldn't be able to make it at 2 AM when the recall went out.  The way we tried to operate was (from inside a CAP van from front to back, left to right with minimum quals in "[]"):

Front Row:
-Driver [GTM3] (no, not the GTL.  NHQ took the CAP driver's license out of the GTL SQTR for a reason)
-GTL [GTL/GTM1]

2nd Row:
-Fixed DF'er [GTM3](for when the L'Per is tied into the van antenna)
-Radio Operator [GTM3/MRO]
-JAT [GTM1 or GTL trainee)("Jack of All Trades" used as needed as a comms record keeper, navigator, relief radio operator, relief DF'er - mobile or fixed, etc. but will not be the medic or IO)

3rd Row:
- (3) Mobile DF'ers [GTM3](for when the L'Per is used outside of the van - can switch with Fixed DF'er if necessary)

4th Row:
-Medic [GTM3/EMT, Nurse, Doctor, etc.](I know what CAP regs state, but if I find a survivor, I want someone who knows what the hell they're doing by virtue of their profession to assess and stabilize that person until EMS can take over)
-PAO [GTM3/IO](Keep your friends close and your enemies the media closer.  It always helps to have someone trained to deal with the media on scene.)

The rest of the van space would hold gear.


Now before the flaming begins, I am well aware that a ground team operates only at the level of the least qualified member.  Those requirements listed above (hopefully) serve as some sort of measure of experience.  It wasn't necessary to fill all of those positions every time, but if you were on the team you knew exactly what your job was when it was assigned to you during the mission briefing.  It always worked well for us since you have to assume that every overdue or ELT mission involves a crashed aircraft with survivors.  Besides, the more involvement we had, the better morale and retention were.

[Pace]

This was before the days of SARTECH and GTM1, 2 and 3. I dont know how its done today

FYI, the current basic GT standard is a minimum of 3 ground team members (level 3) and a ground team leader.

[lordmonar]

Yes, but who is taking charge of the team in the meantime?  Who is deciding where to take the GTL?  Who makes the decision to go home?  Highest rated ES person there?  Highest rank?  Highest current position of authority in the squadron? 

That is why you decide ahead of time and make sure everybody knows.

A 4-5 man team does not rate a convoluted chain of command!

We don't worry about assistant element leaders or anything like that.  Although if you had large 20 man elements it would not be a bad idea.

If three guys in the field need to have a job title to make sure they can figure out what to do when their leader goes down.....then maybe these are not the guys you want in the field in the first place!

[flyguy06]

This was before the days of SARTECH and GTM1, 2 and 3. I dont know how its done today

FYI, the current basic GT standard is a minimum of 3 ground team members (level 3) and a ground team leader.

Thanks, Like I said I am not into ES anymore. Ouguys are way more into than I ever was. I was just curious how you organize. Maybe I will get back into it.