Vehicle Roof Markings

[EmergencyManager6]

Actually followed the wrong white van once at a SAREX. We were practicing ground/air coordination without direct radio contact between units.

Our van entered a section of road with a pretty good canopy. When it emerged from the trees a couple of minutes later, we resumed the track (of the wrong vehicle).  With communications relayed through mission base, it took a few minutes to figure out what had happened.

Eat it Eclipse!

[Eclipse]

Actually followed the wrong white van once at a SAREX. We were practicing ground/air coordination without direct radio contact between units.

Our van entered a section of road with a pretty good canopy. When it emerged from the trees a couple of minutes later, we resumed the track (of the wrong vehicle).  With communications relayed through mission base, it took a few minutes to figure out what had happened.

And then everyone moved on with their life.

Would roof markings make an occasional situation like this easier?  Probably.  Is it worth the $150-200k projected coast of retrofitting the fleet (low-end 2006 estimate)?
No.

[davidsinn]

You could get a cheap lightbar for less than the decals. Even if you didn't turn them on it should be more than distinctive for our purposes. Plus it has the addition feature of making you more visible on the flight-line and when stopped along the side of the road unlike the one trick pony that is a decal.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Actually followed the wrong white van once at a SAREX. We were practicing ground/air coordination without direct radio contact between units.

Our van entered a section of road with a pretty good canopy. When it emerged from the trees a couple of minutes later, we resumed the track (of the wrong vehicle).  With communications relayed through mission base, it took a few minutes to figure out what had happened.

Eat it Eclipse!

Just bursting with professionalism.

Can someone explain a reason for an aircraft to follow a van?

[Eclipse]

You could get a cheap lightbar for less than the decals. Even if you didn't turn them on it should be more than distinctive for our purposes. Plus it has the addition feature of making you more visible on the flight-line and when stopped along the side of the road unlike the one trick pony that is a decal.

A decent lightbar, professionally installed, would be even more, but a magnetic strobe from Pep Boys would be a good solution, and could be moved to other vehicles if needed, and stowed when no in use (less temptation to use it).

[RiverAux]

I have been in situations where they didn't want to broadcast target coordinates over the radio and they had the van lead the aircraft to the site. 

But, generally the aircraft is trying to lead the van somewhere.

[DakRadz]

Actually followed the wrong white van once at a SAREX. We were practicing ground/air coordination without direct radio contact between units.

Our van entered a section of road with a pretty good canopy. When it emerged from the trees a couple of minutes later, we resumed the track (of the wrong vehicle).  With communications relayed through mission base, it took a few minutes to figure out what had happened.

Eat it Eclipse!

Just bursting with professionalism.

Can someone explain a reason for an aircraft to follow a van?

So this is being posted by an Emergency Manager from FLWG??

A guy by that description was banned once. Then he made a second account, and I caught him, reported him, ban. Is this the third?

Of course, I could be wrong.

[jeders]

Actually followed the wrong white van once at a SAREX. We were practicing ground/air coordination without direct radio contact between units.

Our van entered a section of road with a pretty good canopy. When it emerged from the trees a couple of minutes later, we resumed the track (of the wrong vehicle).  With communications relayed through mission base, it took a few minutes to figure out what had happened.

I would wager that this almost never happens. Usually the only time that a marking on the roof would help is when a ground team is staged somewhere and the aircrew is going to lead them in. And then it's only really needed at the meetup. If your ground teams and aircrews are training properly, this becomes a moot point because they will know how to use other attraction techniques and how to maintain contact with a vehicle/aircraft. And in case you think I don't know what I'm talking about, at a recent SAREX I worked the same basic sortie on two separate days, first as an observer then as a GT SET.

[NIN]

bunch of years ago (1998? Ouch) I had a Nissan Pathfinder as my POV/GT Vehicle.
We went out on a SAREX once, aircrew kept complaining it was hard to see from the air (its not exactly a "big white van" or like Dave's big 'burb.)

So I went out, got a 3/8" sheet of plywood and cut a 4x5 or 4x6 chunk off, painted it gloss white, and then masked and sprayed an almost 4' wide orange triangle on it with not quite 2' high orange numbers below the triangle.  8 drilled holes and some of those industrial sized zip ties later, I had this big honking air-ground ID panel atop my GT vehicle.  Two pieces of foam pipe insulation kept the plywood from scratching up the roof rack.   It was easily removable with a pair of wire dikes, and reinstallable with 4 more zip ties. (again, I used the big thick black ones, not the little flimsy ones)

For a vehicle with a roof rack, it took about $25 in supplies to give it just enough to be seen and identified.

[SarDragon]

Bright orange magnetic signs work ok.

Only if there's no roof rack. This isn't as big an issue on real vans, but many SUVs, including my personal 'Burb, have them, and any sort of roof marking becomes tedious and complicated.

Hood.

BAD idea!

Sunlight at the correct angle can cause a horrendously distracting reflection.

[DakRadz]

Actually followed the wrong white van once at a SAREX. We were practicing ground/air coordination without direct radio contact between units.

Our van entered a section of road with a pretty good canopy. When it emerged from the trees a couple of minutes later, we resumed the track (of the wrong vehicle).  With communications relayed through mission base, it took a few minutes to figure out what had happened.

Eat it Eclipse!

Just bursting with professionalism.

Can someone explain a reason for an aircraft to follow a van?

So this is being posted by an Emergency Manager from FLWG??

A guy by that description was banned once. Then he made a second account, and I caught him, reported him, ban. Is this the third?

Of course, I could be wrong.

And the PM... By the way, everyone, I am in no way, shape, nor form a moderator, nor do I intend to impersonate one.

Though I did consider buying the site a few months back...

Your petty smart!

PLEASE ban me!   

I only spoke up in the first place because I've never seen anyone tell Eclipse (or anyone else) to "eat it." The attitude seemed familiar...

[KyCAP]

Hrm...

The saying.. "Trust but verify" comes to mind.

How about we start with the assumption there are "thousands of white vans" on the road.   When you make first contact.. Tell them to pull OVER to an driveway or shoulder of the road so that you can VERIFY you have them.   Takes 30 seconds, costs nothing.

Placing things on the roof is also going to have to be continuously maintained.. So, the $500 is just the start - 10 years later.. you're doing it again... If you need to stick antennas on the roof then you cause problems with the materials, etc.  For those of us who are learning from those who "been there and got the T-shirt" it's a "good idea" with a problematic implementation and very little payback...

[PHall]

Pull over to the side of the road, have somebody get out and wave?
Aircrew sees person waving, problem solved.

[♠SARKID♠]

Have cadet put on ANSI-3 safety vest, duct tape to roof.  Light cadet on fire for night ops. 

[SarDragon]

bunch of years ago (1998? Ouch) I had a Nissan Pathfinder as my POV/GT Vehicle.
We went out on a SAREX once, aircrew kept complaining it was hard to see from the air (its not exactly a "big white van" or like Dave's big 'burb.)

So I went out, got a 3/8" sheet of plywood and cut a 4x5 or 4x6 chunk off, painted it gloss white, and then masked and sprayed an almost 4' wide orange triangle on it with not quite 2' high orange numbers below the triangle.  8 drilled holes and some of those industrial sized zip ties later, I had this big honking air-ground ID panel atop my GT vehicle.  Two pieces of foam pipe insulation kept the plywood from scratching up the roof rack.   It was easily removable with a pair of wire dikes, and reinstallable with 4 more zip ties. (again, I used the big thick black ones, not the little flimsy ones)

For a vehicle with a roof rack, it took about $25 in supplies to give it just enough to be seen and identified.

Awesome idea! I bet that corrugated plastic they use for election campaign signs would work well, too.

[DakRadz]

Have cadet put on ANSI-3 safety vest, duct tape to roof.  Light cadet on fire for night ops.

Safety and CPPT come to mind, as well as pure idiocy.

You have to make sure the cadet is in a Nomex flightsuit if you're going to set them afire. Then it's okay. Remember what HMRS says- safety before uniform regulations!

[SarDragon]

From Dan, you really gotta assume a crap-ton of smileys with the post.

[DakRadz]

I was going for the same effect. Gotta read the second line as a continuation of the first, heh.

Besides, who wouldn't at least put on some Nomex before being set blazing?

[tribalelder]

Flexible magnetic sheeting in a contrast color either in the 3 foot triangle or cut into numerals (not necessarily ome piece numerals). There may be another white van, but not with roof of hood markings. Old sources were Dick Blick and Johnson Plastics- haven't done this anew in ages.

[RiverAux]

I just don't understand how anyone could believe that this isn't a good idea.  Certainly there are a lot of good ideas that may cost too much for CAP to implement and there are a variety of ways it could be done and those warrant discussion, but increasing the visibility of a target on the ground is ALWAYS going to make things easier on the aircrews.