Another ranger program??

[sarmed1]

My only issue with the Ranger program has been ranger rolling me hat.

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Where does this come from!!??  I understand the annoyances of tabs, and pistol belts and whistle chains and orange t-shirts in people comeing back from HMRS.  BUT NO ONE WEARS BDU/PATROL CAPS THERE!  So there is no "hey this is how your wear your hat after you leave".... they give students a doofy orange hat with the logo on it to wear..... the BDU  hat thing just somehow materializes out of thin air apparently.....

mk

[DG]

I think the proper wording should be:  taught in line with the CAP emergency services curriculm.  NESA nor HMRS nor Blue Beret or whatever school should be "the school ". 

There is nothin wrong with teaching additional curriculm, especially if a local need exists; then by all means add to meet the local/ mission need; and no not everyone else needs to know/learn the local/additional stuff.

I disagree that everyone needs to know someone else's local skill sets.  Yes it should be available to share as needed.   For example; those that live in the flat desert dont need to know the rope/mountain rescue of the northeast; likewise those in the Northeast dont need to know the desert survival that me be integral to operations in Arizona.

AMEN!

[DG]

NESA nor HMRS nor Blue Beret or whatever school should be "the school ".

I thought NESA was "the school", and that our curriculum was written by and updated by them?

It is, and those who try to assert otherwise are usually squeezing sour grapes for whatever reason.  As an organization we would be much better off if ES qualifications required completion of NESA in the same way that other similar organizations, including the  military, require all operators to complete standardized, baseline training.

It is the only school or similar activity with the sole purpose of training and qualifying CAP members to the national standards.  Anything "off-book" is a national pilot program coming soon to a pamphlet near you.  It has its own charter and and is staffed by members of the national ES curriculum committee.

If the "NESA Way" is different from "your way", you're doing it wrong.

WRONG!

[Eclipse]

Well, if you say so...

Let me guess, your wing has its own "way" that conflicts with what NESA teaches and you guys have had conflicts with people from another wing.  Rather than just get with the program, you prefer to make it up yourselves and ice skate uphill.

Close?

[RiverAux]

Last I heard, NESA was allowing use of the task guide when students were being tested for their quals.  If that is still the case, then NESA most certainly is in the wrong.  As long as that is the case, I won't be attending and won't really be encouraging others to do so as their testing system is substandard as far as I'm concerned. 

[Spaceman3750]

Last I heard, NESA was allowing use of the task guide when students were being tested for their quals.  If that is still the case, then NESA most certainly is in the wrong.  As long as that is the case, I won't be attending and won't really be encouraging others to do so as their testing system is substandard as far as I'm concerned.

So you're going to discourage others participation based on hearsay? When I was there this summer, that was definitely not the case, at least not in the school I was in. I will check with another person from my squadron who was there in a different school but I think your source is misinformed at best.

[Eclipse]

What?

Why would you not be allowed to use the task guide? What else are you going to use?
It's the authoritative document for the entire ES program.

[Spaceman3750]

Why would you not be allowed to use the task guide? What else are you going to use?

I think he means to look up answers while being tested - which is against policy IIRC. Studying before and after is kosher though and if that's what he's referring to then there is nothing wrong with it.

[Eclipse]

Who's policy?  Since when is tasking a closed-book situation?

The task guide is required equipment for use as a referral during missions.

[davidsinn]

Why would you not be allowed to use the task guide? What else are you going to use?

I think he means to look up answers while being tested - which is against policy IIRC. Studying before and after is kosher though and if that's what he's referring to then there is nothing wrong with it.

What tests? The tasks are demonstrate or discuss [topic at hand].

[Eclipse]

What tests? The tasks are demonstrate or discuss [topic at hand].

My point exactly - having the book in your hand will not help you if you've never seen a compass until that minute or don't know what your pace count is, etc.

[RiverAux]

There are a lot of tasks that knowledge questions only. 

[Eclipse]

There are a lot of tasks that knowledge questions only.

Yes there are, but where does it say ES is a closed book situation?

As Sinn mentions they are generally "identify" or "discuss", not "gotcha".

[RiverAux]

Where does it say that they are open book? 

[Eclipse]

Where does it say that they are open book?

Nice try, however if one wants to walk that way, any testing situation in CAP that is mandated closed book is indicated as such
in either the regs or accompanying text, and if ES has anything, it has a lot of regs and text.

The standard is "demonstrate to the satisfaction of the SET", nothing more, nothing less.

[arajca]

Where does it say that they are open book?

Look at most of the task evaluations. With a few exceptions, they say the trainee may use any equipment they have including this guide in performing the task. (Not a direct quote - too lazy to look it up for quoting)

[RiverAux]

Sorry, if you don't know the info, you don't pass my training class unless somewhere specifically it says open book.   If others are allowing the task guides to be used for simple knowledge questions then maybe I do need to stop defending CAP's ES program as much as I have. 

[Eclipse]

How about giving us an example of a "simple knowledge question" that using the GT Guide book gives you heartburn about?

[RiverAux]

Last time I looked there were about 20 GT tasks that could be handled by a written quiz.  Just about all of the GT3 tasks are included.  But, haow about O-0101?  Run across one of those snakes and you're not going to have time to dig the guide out of your backpack to figure out if it is dangerous or not. 

[N Harmon]

Last time I looked there were about 20 GT tasks that could be handled by a written quiz.  Just about all of the GT3 tasks are included.  But, haow about O-0101?  Run across one of those snakes and you're not going to have time to dig the guide out of your backpack to figure out if it is dangerous or not.

Guess how many of those snakes are in my AO? Or spiders for that matter. So who cares if they are dangerous? Don't mess with them.

The fact remains that the people who run NESA are the people who wrote the task guide. So it seems to me a little strange that they would allow some tasks to be completed open-book if they didn't intend those tasks to be completed that way.

The only task that is "closed book" is O-0703, Employ Ground to Air signals, where it specifically says the person being evaluated must draw the five distress signals "from memory".