Another ranger program??

[DakRadz]

Navy= Hooyah Has anybody seen my coffee cup? (As corrected by SarDragon)

Air Force (CAP, by extension): Donuts, anyone?
Coast Guard: This is a lighthouse, sir. Your call.

[SarDragon]

Navy= Hooyah Has anybody seen my coffee cup?

Air Force (CAP, by extension): Donuts, anyone?
Coast Guard: This is a lighthouse, sir. Your call.

Fixed that for you. 

[sarmed1]

To answer the original questions:

#1. Do we really need another "ranger" program?
#2. Are we now going to have to deal with every wing forming its own "ranger's"
#3. Can anyone please tell me what "ranger skills" are??

#1&2:  No not likely; but hopefully its more of an extension of the PA program.  A few years ago PA developed an "exportable" Ranger program:  basically the curriculm, leson plans, school methodology in one neat littel package.  It was to be made available to intersted Wing/Region DO's so they could build and run a local level program that was "equivilent" to the basic program done at HMRS (ie were FLWG program developed).  This program was further "pushed" by former MG Pineda, as he wanted a Nationwide Ranger program; there would be a basic school in each region that would then funnel applicants to HMRS for advanced/specialized training.  So #2 yes its possible, not likely and technically they wouldnt be any differant in skill sets to the "original" (which segways into #3)

#3 Off the cuff not specifically:  Somewhere I have a document that I broke out the Ranger specific skills from the Nat Curriculm GTM skills by Ranger Grade (if I can find it I'll post the info).  The basic breakdown I have always given people is this:  The ranger programs emphasis stems from its early survival type school origins.  Be able to be self sustaining in a wilderness environment for up to 72 hours. Be able to conduct SAR operations in the terrain most commonly encountered in Pennsylvania, including search for, find, communicate, treat and evacuate casulties from aircraft crashes or other missing persons.

This usually includes a greater emphasis on:
Outdoor (ie camping) skills
General wilderness survival skills (ie the I didnt bring it in on my back, how do I find it/fix it/make it stuff)
Land navigation
patient packaging and first aid
Mountain Operations...read in basic ropes and knots skills, rappeling, high angle/steep terrain rescue

GTM skills and quification as GTM3 thru GBD are required for qualification at the differant ranger ratings (so it is not a seperate qualification independant of the GTM program as some believe)

mk

[jimmydeanno]

I suppose it would depend on what the mission of each of "the schools" was.

NESA, in my eyes, is the place you go to get Emergency Services Qualifications.  It is "the" place to go for ES quals.

HMRS, in my eyes, is a wilderness leadership course. 

If HMRS is selling themselves as "a place to go for ES quals" they should be marketing differently, because that isn't what they do.

[sarmed1]

If HMRS is selling themselves as "a place to go for ES quals" they should be marketing differently, because that isn't what they do.

No, that is what they do, or more specifically ONE, of the things they do.  For NESA, that is the only thing they do (Well except for that Wilderness AFA school)  They do provide GTM training and it follows the National Curriculm and uses the GTM task guide as it the base training/testing document.    They just happen to do other things as well.

Personally I think that they (HMRS) need to clearly slpit thier programs;  If they are going to be the training point for PAWG for GTM type training, offer GTM3-GBD specific training.  Then offer a seperate Ranger qualification program; including the summer school, make GTM "whatever" a requirement of application then they area able to spend the time just concentrating on the outdoor, navigation and the other Ranger specific skills.   Trying to rope (no pun intended) all of the basic GTM level skills and then "Ranger" into the same week for someone who is a zero level is challenging for an instructor to produce a capable graduating student by the end of theweek.

mk

[SitRep]

Ranger is just a hook to get the young cadets in to it. it does not in any way shape or form make them a ranger.

[HGjunkie]

Coast Guard: This is a lighthouse, sir. Your call.

I saw that video. Needless to say, many lol's were had. 

[Thrashed]

I am a GBD, GTL, UDF, MRO, FLM, FLS.... i must have missed the part about needing "ranger skills" to perform those duty's, and i would still like to know...what are the "ranger skills"?

Or can we admit that the title "ranger" is just used to get kids and unmotivated SM's into ES?

http://www.pawingcap.com/hawk/standardsandeval.htm
see the above link for PA's Ranger skills.  Their "SQTR's".

[Spaceman3750]

I am a GBD, GTL, UDF, MRO, FLM, FLS.... i must have missed the part about needing "ranger skills" to perform those duty's, and i would still like to know...what are the "ranger skills"?

Or can we admit that the title "ranger" is just used to get kids and unmotivated SM's into ES?

http://www.pawingcap.com/hawk/standardsandeval.htm
see the above link for PA's Ranger skills.  Their "SQTR's".

Hmmm... Things don't seem to get interesting until Ranger 1st Class (and even then it would be a walk in the park for many). Hawk Mountain has a winter school going for it. I'd likely eat my boots for a winter (or fall) session at NESA, due to the fact that I can't go this summer.

[C/Martin]

My only issue with the Ranger program has been ranger rolling me hat. I grew up around Rangers wehn my dad was in the Army, so it is natural for me to ranger roll. And I get in trouble a whole lot for doing it. Cause somone will be like, "You didnt go to the Ranger NESA." I even had a Cadet Major that told me you can not ranger roll a BDU cap (which is false if you know your fact).

I am just waiting for a Airborne school so CAP can regulate Blouse boots with the service dress.

[Spaceman3750]

"Ranger NESA"? I think the SAR gods are displeased with you now.

Also, unless you can cite where in CAP ranger rolls are explicitly authorized they're not, no matter what you know.

Parade boots are already authorized with blues IIRC.

[C/Martin]

wow, parade boots are authorized? Are red berets also (red berets in the Army symbolize Air Borne)?

[jimmydeanno]

I even had a Cadet Major that told me you can not ranger roll a BDU cap (which is false if you know your fact).

Apparently, you do not know your facts.

3. BDU Cap: Either the USAF or Army style BDU cap or camouflage BDU baseball cap may be worn
with the BDU uniform. Senior members, cadet NCOs, and airmen do not wear any type of insignia
on the cap. Cadet officers wear the embroidered grade insignia centered 1/2 inch above the visor on
the BDU cap. Cap will not be worn crushed or rolled. Marine style BDU cap is not authorized.

[Spaceman3750]

wow, parade boots are authorized? Are red berets also (red berets in the Army symbolize Air Borne)?

No. 39-1 is your friend. I would have cited but I'm on my phone.

You should know this already Chief.

[HGjunkie]

wow, parade boots are authorized? Are red berets also (red berets in the Army symbolize Air Borne)?

If you wore a red beret in an AF uniform, you may be mistaken for a PJ.

[SarDragon]

wow, parade boots are authorized? Are red berets also (red berets in the Army symbolize Air Borne)?

If you wore a red beret in an AF uniform, you may be mistaken for a PJ.

If you wore a red beret in an AF a CAP uniform, you may be mistaken for a PJ tool. 

[GroundHawg]

+1
Red berets in the AF are CCT. PJs wear maroon. And neither is authorized in CAP.

[FlyTiger77]

wow, parade boots are authorized? Are red berets also (red berets in the Army symbolize Air Borne)?

In the belief that no nit is too small to pick, I believe that would be a maroon beret.

[EMT-83]

I even had a Cadet Major that told me you can not ranger roll a BDU cap (which is false if you know your fact).

Apparently, you do not know your facts.

3. BDU Cap: Either the USAF or Army style BDU cap or camouflage BDU baseball cap may be worn
with the BDU uniform. Senior members, cadet NCOs, and airmen do not wear any type of insignia
on the cap. Cadet officers wear the embroidered grade insignia centered 1/2 inch above the visor on
the BDU cap. Cap will not be worn crushed or rolled. Marine style BDU cap is not authorized.

"Cadet, what happened to your cap?"
"Sir, I'm a Ranger!"
"Outstanding! Now fix your cap."

[GroundHawg]

"Cadet, what happened to your cap?"
"Sir, I'm a Ranger!"
"Outstanding! Now fix your cap."


Im totally using this...