Looks like a big one is coming. 1300 National Guardsmen are being called up in anticipation. Any CAP units prepping for a call out?
http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2012/10/28/millions-across-east-coast-brace-for-uperstorm-sandy/ (http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2012/10/28/millions-across-east-coast-brace-for-uperstorm-sandy/)
Quote from: JK657 on October 28, 2012, 07:22:15 PM
Looks like a big one is coming. 1300 National Guardsmen are being called up in anticipation. Any CAP units prepping for a call out?
http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2012/10/28/millions-across-east-coast-brace-for-uperstorm-sandy/ (http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2012/10/28/millions-across-east-coast-brace-for-uperstorm-sandy/)
My unit and most of my wing is.
PA is ready. Been working on getting aircrews together all day.
Good luck guys!
My wife had to bump her flight home from Boston visiting her sister from tomorrow to Wednesday, so you folks in MAWG take good care of those folks there too!
NJWG has had a staff put together for a few days now. Ground Teams standing by, aircrews still being assembled.
New York City Group alerted squadrons in New York City to provide senior member support regardless of whether they are General Emergency Services qualified or not. These will be deployed, most probably, in support of the Office of Emergency Management, and VOAD, a coalition of volunteer agencies and corporations at the shelters.
New York State Governor has ordered shutting off all trains, regional trains, and bus service. New York City Mayor ordered shutting off all city subways and buses, both actions effective as of 1900 local time. There is a mandatory evacuation order for all city residents living in Zone A, which includes Coney Island and Far Rockaway in Brooklyn and Battery Park area of Manhattan, although includes many other coastal areas of the city. Public schools are closed on Monday, and maybe Tuesday as well.
For my squadron, I am out as I am a public school teacher. Since the city opened shelters, I am working the shelter as a city employee. Another member is also a public school teacher in the same condition. Another member is a CERT employee, and her team has been called out. That leaves three ES members off our squadron's ES response.
Take care,
Flyer
North Carolina is on standby, but this is going to mostly be a hurricane miss for us. We might get a call tomorrow or Tuesday if the winds are not too bad. Right now the TAFs are calling for gusts to 30kts in Raleigh through 2000 EST Monday night, so if that holds true we are probably not flying anywhere tomorrow.
Rhode Island getting ready for post storm damage assessment.
Quote from: phirons on October 29, 2012, 01:47:21 PM
Rhode Island getting ready for post storm damage assessment.
How is it in Rhodie? I know here in MA it isn't too bad, at least not bad near the coast.
Quote from: Thrashed on October 28, 2012, 09:02:10 PM
PA is ready. Been working on getting aircrews together all day.
Are they going to fly during a hurricane/tropical storm/nor'easter? Have you guys been mobilizing ground teams, communications teams, shelter teams supporting general ES activities?
My wing has been helping staff the state EOC and gathering personnel to assist the the state wherever we can including getting ready for the post damage assessment.
Not till wednesday... Maybe....
New Hampshire Wing has sent out emails to prepare and be ready for it if we are in fact called out.
Nothing as of yet.
NER has set up area coordination center in NH (they believe it's outside storm impact area) to work with the wings on post-storm tasking from 1st AF & FEMA.
Wings work directly with state emergency management authorities. When a wing needs additional help, region coordinates response between the wings.
Quote from: SARDOC on October 29, 2012, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on October 28, 2012, 09:02:10 PM
PA is ready. Been working on getting aircrews together all day.
Are they going to fly during a hurricane/tropical storm/nor'easter? Have you guys been mobilizing ground teams, communications teams, shelter teams supporting general ES activities?
Ground and aircrews are standing by. Flying will be post storm photo missions. No ground action yet.
Quote from: Thrashed on October 29, 2012, 06:19:17 PMGround and aircrews are standing by. Flying will be post storm photo FEMA 'spy' missions. No ground action yet.
;D
Quote from: a2capt on October 29, 2012, 06:27:57 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on October 29, 2012, 06:19:17 PMGround and aircrews are standing by. Flying will be post storm photo FEMA 'spy' missions. No ground action yet.
;D
OPSEC VIOLATION! >:D
Quote from: JeffDG on October 29, 2012, 06:35:04 PM
Quote from: a2capt on October 29, 2012, 06:27:57 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on October 29, 2012, 06:19:17 PMGround and aircrews are standing by. Flying will be post storm photo FEMA 'spy' missions. No ground action yet.
;D
OPSEC VIOLATION! >:D
And you did it too when you called attention to it! >:D >:D
Quote from: a2capt on October 29, 2012, 06:27:57 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on October 29, 2012, 06:19:17 PMGround and aircrews are standing by. Flying will be post storm photo FEMA 'spy' missions. No ground action yet.
;D
Oh no! All that wind is going to blow off the tin foil hats and people will be exposed!
Quote from: Walkman on October 29, 2012, 08:02:04 PM
Quote from: a2capt on October 29, 2012, 06:27:57 PM
Quote from: Thrashed on October 29, 2012, 06:19:17 PMGround and aircrews are standing by. Flying will be post storm photo FEMA 'spy' missions. No ground action yet.
;D
Oh no! All that wind is going to blow off the tin foil hats and people will be exposed!
How dare you! The CAP Core Value of Respect requires you not show such disrespect to people who wear tin-foil hats, or indeed, even think such disrespectful thoughts (without showing same), as Respect is an absolute value and must be lived in thought, word and deed at all times. I demand your immediate 2B for such violation! >:D
Quote from: JeffDG on October 29, 2012, 08:32:55 PM
How dare you! The CAP Core Value of Respect requires you not show such disrespect to people who wear tin-foil hats, or indeed, even think such disrespectful thoughts (without showing same), as Respect is an absolute value and must be lived in thought, word and deed at all times. I demand your immediate 2B for such violation! >:D
hangs head in shame...
Quote from: Walkman on October 29, 2012, 08:58:34 PM
Quote from: JeffDG on October 29, 2012, 08:32:55 PM
How dare you! The CAP Core Value of Respect requires you not show such disrespect to people who wear tin-foil hats, or indeed, even think such disrespectful thoughts (without showing same), as Respect is an absolute value and must be lived in thought, word and deed at all times. I demand your immediate 2B for such violation! >:D
hangs head in shame...
And to think I just friended you on FB. Now I'm going to have to spend all night reevaluating that. ;) 8)
Parts of MA are evacuating certain parts of their town. My town has two neighborhoods being evacuated and good god all mighty, I've never seen flooding like I have today.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 30, 2012, 01:02:11 AM
And to think I just friended you on FB. Now I'm going to have to spend all night reevaluating that. ;) 8)
LOL!
To get things back on track.
I have a colleague who was in DC yesterday, staying in Baltimore, who had to move his hotel 30 minutes West as his hotel was closed.
At ~1900 local time, the winds were driving rain into his closed hotel windows.
So...
AT 2230 local, I'm trolling the web cams.
Times Square is just wet streets and no wind, Myrtle Beach, SC is just windy, Boston shows fog, Atlantic City's current NOAA conditions just show "mist and fog".
Now, the Brooklyn Bridge and Wall Street cams appear to be down, and I saw a news story about "everything below 39th being dark", but was that preventative shutdowns or outages?
Was Sandy just a really bad storm coupled with uber hype?
Edit: I'm looking over some CNN photos - I see a fair amount of flooding, and that construction crane in NYC - supposedly that went down
in 20MPH winds with 30MPH gusts. In Chicago we refer to wind like that as "balmy".
Quote from: AngelWings on October 29, 2012, 03:46:36 PM
Quote from: phirons on October 29, 2012, 01:47:21 PM
Rhode Island getting ready for post storm damage assessment.
How is it in Rhodie? I know here in MA it isn't too bad, at least not bad near the coast.
Glad I'm in the north half of the state. The Providence Hurricane Barrier seems to have worked.
All of the island communities of NJ were wrecked today with the tides... attached is one picture to show the extent of flooding and one from Atlantic City to show damage.
These pretty much sum up the status of my community right now.
Quote from: Eclipse on October 30, 2012, 02:46:00 AM
So...
AT 2230 local, I'm trolling the web cams.
Times Square is just wet streets and no wind, Myrtle Beach, SC is just windy, Boston shows fog, Atlantic City's current NOAA conditions just show "mist and fog".
Now, the Brooklyn Bridge and Wall Street cams appear to be down, and I saw a news story about "everything below 39th being dark", but was that preventative shutdowns or outages?
Was Sandy just a really bad storm coupled with uber hype?
Edit: I'm looking over some CNN photos - I see a fair amount of flooding, and that construction crane in NYC - supposedly that went down
in 20MPH winds with 30MPH gusts. In Chicago we refer to wind like that as "balmy".
The crane was hit by 90 mph winds with gusts over 100mph when it went over.
Tunnels and subways were flooded. Some power areas were shut down others were outages. A power plant suffered an explosion in their basement when it was flooded several workers are trapped hopefully higher in the building, though Con-Ed is denying any of it. I don't know about that the video is pretty convincing. Long Island is in for a long night as the basin fills with flooding and the storm surge, most likely will end up with a different inter-coastal landscape.
So overall these are but a few of the stories of Sandy. I would say that it was/ is an extremely unusual and strong storm requiring a large amount of media warnings considering its large size, over 900 miles in diameter, number of states directly hit, and density of population.
Fire departments along Long Island Sound are receiving calls from folks wanting to be rescued; they were too dumb to leave when the mandatory evacuations were ordered.
Lots of flooding, but the water is receding faster than predicted. We'll see what things look like in the daylight.
Quote from: spaatzmom on October 30, 2012, 04:18:32 AM
The crane was hit by 90 mph winds with gusts over 100mph when it went over.
I saw some of those reports, and don't know how they are figuring speeds that high - per NOAA, at no point has Sandy developed winds that high. The max gusts of the whole storm have "only" been to 90 with sustained winds at 75 - nothing to trifle with, clearly, but not what some sources are reporting.
The crane was knocked over around 1430 local time when the storm was still gathering speed and winds were much lower.
Quote from: EMT-83 on October 30, 2012, 04:35:55 AM
Fire departments along Long Island Sound are receiving calls from folks wanting to be rescued; they were too dumb to leave when the mandatory evacuations were ordered.
I love Christie - he was being pretty "direct" about the Mayor of Atlantic City who told people to stay put in local shelters. As well as telling people
that if they did stay, after being told to leave, they were on their own for a while.
The Weather Channel reported earlier that the runway as La Guardia was under water.
No report from Laura Reichardt, she's by NYU, west of East Village, about 40 blocks south of Times Square..
Quote from: Eclipse on October 30, 2012, 04:39:59 AM
Quote from: spaatzmom on October 30, 2012, 04:18:32 AM
The crane was hit by 90 mph winds with gusts over 100mph when it went over.
I saw some of those reports, and don't know how they are figuring speeds that high - per NOAA, at no point has Sandy developed winds that high. The max gusts of the whole storm have "only" been to 90 with sustained winds at 75 - nothing to trifle with, clearly, but not what some sources are reporting.
The crane was knocked over around 1430 local time when the storm was still gathering speed and winds were much lower.
Not sure how the skyscrapers affect the wind, but I know there is a phenomena where they create faster and more dangerous winds. There have been a couple of meteorologists that stated their wind meters, probably Kestrels, broke during that particular time in that area with 90mph as the last measurement showing on the meter and another with over 100mph during a gust on his.
As far as never developing winds that high, that is not true. At about 3:00 p.m. EDT (1900 UTC) on October 24, Sandy made landfall near Kingston with winds of about 80 mph (130 km/h). Just offshore Cuba, Sandy rapidly intensified into a Category 2 hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson scale with 110 mph (175 km/h) winds. Shortly thereafter at 1:25 a.m. EDT (0525 UTC), the hurricane struck Cuba just west of Santiago de Cuba. At landfall, Sandy had a well-defined eye of over 23 mi (37 km) in diameter, and flight-level winds reached 135 mph (216 km/h). Granted this was prior to hitting the US, but it did reach those speeds during its life cycle.
Skyscrapers make great wind tunnels. Wind speeds increase significantly when blowing down the streets between modest (6-10 floors) buildings. There have been instances of the windows getting sucked out of buildings because of this.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 30, 2012, 06:30:44 AM
Skyscrapers make great wind tunnels. Wind speeds increase significantly when blowing down the streets between modest (6-10 floors) buildings. There have been instances of the windows getting sucked out of buildings because of this.
Yup the Hancock building in Boston comes to mind. It was forever popping its windows making walking around that area interesting until they figured out some extra structural thing to reinforce the windows. Glad I didn't have to travel into Boston that often back then.
Quote from: SarDragon on October 30, 2012, 06:30:44 AM
Skyscrapers make great wind tunnels. Wind speeds increase significantly when blowing down the streets between modest (6-10 floors) buildings. There have been instances of the windows getting sucked out of buildings because of this.
The Venturri effect, writ large.
Okay, I certainly don't expect there to have been much CAP activity associated with the hurricane up till now, however, when NHQ puts out a "preparation" press release on the 26th http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?preparations_begin_as_hurricane_sandy_heads_toward_east_coast&show=news&newsID=15171 (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?preparations_begin_as_hurricane_sandy_heads_toward_east_coast&show=news&newsID=15171) you'd expect them to follow up with daily updates.
I suspect that the reason we didn't hear anything over the weekend is that they don't work weekends -- an often noted problem in regards to NHQ public affairs and emergency events. But, there should have been something yesterday.
Now that most of the storm has passed we might really expect to see some CAP work and I'd hope it gets covered.
Amazing how the storm is basically evaporating over the Great Lakes. No rain in the forecast East of Lake Michigan, even though the storm's edge
is making things windy.
I too am surprised that they haven't been continually issuing press releases about what is going on daily, unless of course Civil Air Patrol isn't doing anything in these states. Which I know isn't true, but that is the impression I get when there is no news and they have put restrictions on all the Civil Air Patrol personnel to not release any information in the areas impacted by the storm without clearance from National Public Affairs. You'd think in return they would be on top of this and continually be issuing statements. Unless of course, due to OPSEC requirements the spying we are doing for FEMA needs be kept confidential....I think I've already said too much.
MIWG was sent an email last night to get prepped in case we're needed. No call to us yet, but they want us standing by.
Any other wings in the surrounding states in stand-by mode?
Quote from: Walkman on October 30, 2012, 01:11:26 PM
MIWG was sent an email last night to get prepped in case we're needed. No call to us yet, but they want us standing by.
Any other wings in the surrounding states in stand-by mode?
I know we are in standby mode, I think we are going to be assisting other states though. This Civil Air Patrol Emergency Services concept is starting to be more of a regional concept than just staying within the wing. That's a good thing.
Here in New Hampshire we felt it, but not the brunt of it like New York or New Jersey. Our GTs are on standby, and the likelihood of us being called out is getting smaller and smaller.
All the best to those affected by this and you are in my thoughts and prayers.
I would expect NJ and NY untis to be out photographing the damage and assessing what needs to be done. Any reports of damage to CAP planes, equipment, or personell?
I was stationed in Queens and Western Nassau yesterday. Lot of trees down, 90% of the island is without power. Dozens of fires in the 1st and 3rd Divisions. Over a hundred houses burned in Breezy Pointe.
Quote from: JayT on October 30, 2012, 04:54:40 PM
I was stationed in Queens and Western Nassau yesterday. Lot of trees down, 90% of the island is without power. Dozens of fires in the 1st and 3rd Divisions. Over a hundred houses burned in Breezy Pointe.
My unit or group still hasn't been put on standby and I'm starting to get annoyed. Where's your squadron?
Quote from: NY Wing King on October 30, 2012, 09:23:12 PMMy unit or group still hasn't been put on standby and I'm starting to get annoyed. Where's your squadron?
Really? There's -A LOT- more going on out there than them looking for CAP. Go study for your next Achievement.
Quote from: NY Wing King on October 30, 2012, 09:23:12 PM
Quote from: JayT on October 30, 2012, 04:54:40 PM
I was stationed in Queens and Western Nassau yesterday. Lot of trees down, 90% of the island is without power. Dozens of fires in the 1st and 3rd Divisions. Over a hundred houses burned in Breezy Pointe.
My unit or group still hasn't been put on standby and I'm starting to get annoyed. Where's your squadron?
Not an active member. I'm a Paramedic. Stay home and be safe.
NHQ did get a release out today: http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?preparations_begin_as_hurricane_sandy_heads_toward_east_coast&show=news&newsID=15171 (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?preparations_begin_as_hurricane_sandy_heads_toward_east_coast&show=news&newsID=15171)
QuoteNATIONAL HEADQUARTERS – With northbound Hurricane Sandy slamming into the East Coast, wings in the Northeast and Middle East regions have moved aircraft inland or into hangars and are keeping a close eye on the storm while awaiting requests to assist as needed.
Preparations began Thursday in the Maryland Wing, for instance, with members making plans to safeguard aircraft and vehicles. The next day, Maryland members began to direct aircraft to make use of available hangar space at home stations. In addition, specified aircraft were directed to alternate airfields, with CAP planes at Easton, Frederick Municipal, Easton and Martin State airports moved to Greater Cumberland Regional Airport.
Also Friday, the Maryland Emergency Management Agency asked that the wing staff the CAP desk at the Emergency Operations Center in Reisterstown around the clock , from 5 p.m. Sunday, Oct. 28 through 7 a.m. Wednesday.
To the south of Maryland, Col. David E. Crawford, North Carolina Wing commander, cautioned members to "hope for the best, but expect the worst" in the face of the storm and its aftermath.
The State Emergency Operations Center began receiving damage and flooding reports from some coastal communities Sunday. Hard hit was Pender County, particularly Topsail Island, where beach homes are built close together.
In addition, thanks to a major winter storm that moved in from the west even as Sandy was bearing down on the East Coast, "wet snow is falling in the North Carolina mountains, and Gov. Bev Purdue declared a state of emergency for 24 counties — this in addition to some 40 counties in eastern North Carolina," Crawford said.
"The North Carolina Wing is on full alert, and we are prepared to mobilize our personal and assets when we get the call."
Wings elsewhere in affected areas as far down as Florida have also taken steps to move or otherwise protect CAP aircraft from damage.
Those wings and others throughout the potentially affected areas are poised to respond to requests for assistance, which could include such missions as aerial imagery, emergency communications support, searches for missing aircraft or people, distribution of food or water, checking on residents or helping to fill and stack sandbags.
Well, the release was dated today but was basically the same as the one they sent out before it hit.
Quote from: JayT on October 30, 2012, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: NY Wing King on October 30, 2012, 09:23:12 PM
Quote from: JayT on October 30, 2012, 04:54:40 PM
I was stationed in Queens and Western Nassau yesterday. Lot of trees down, 90% of the island is without power. Dozens of fires in the 1st and 3rd Divisions. Over a hundred houses burned in Breezy Pointe.
My unit or group still hasn't been put on standby and I'm starting to get annoyed. Where's your squadron?
Not an active member. I'm a Paramedic. Stay home and be safe.
+1
FF/EMT-P here - we were a little busy in SE PA but otherwise dodged a major bullet. I didn't expect and didn't receive an activation call from CAP.
Quote from: fyrfitrmedic on October 31, 2012, 12:24:53 AM
Quote from: JayT on October 30, 2012, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: NY Wing King on October 30, 2012, 09:23:12 PM
Quote from: JayT on October 30, 2012, 04:54:40 PM
I was stationed in Queens and Western Nassau yesterday. Lot of trees down, 90% of the island is without power. Dozens of fires in the 1st and 3rd Divisions. Over a hundred houses burned in Breezy Pointe.
My unit or group still hasn't been put on standby and I'm starting to get annoyed. Where's your squadron?
Not an active member. I'm a Paramedic. Stay home and be safe.
+1
FF/EMT-P here - we were a little busy in SE PA but otherwise dodged a major bullet. I didn't expect and didn't receive an activation call from CAP.
Hospital based and paid employee of the volunteer service. We've been pretty busy, but my primary area wasn't hit as hard as it could of been. My hospital based gig got slammed after I went off tour apparently. By around three pm ish yesterday they we pulling us off of our CSL's and having us shelter inside. Be safe brother.
I'm fairly sure that no NJWG assets were damaged.
I was out for 12 continuous hours of disaster relief today. After being out all day, I saw that there's a lot of damage. They could really use CAP's help out there but we're not getting the tasks at the moment (at least on the ground). If we were to get some more ground tasks, we could definitely use some help from other wings.
Edit: Ground missions pending... no further details to be posted on here anyway.
Found a picture of CAP Cadet handing out food in Queens NY for Sandy victims.
(http://s17.postimage.org/6b7dcswe7/Sandy_CAP_Cadet.jpg)
Slide Show
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49596252/displaymode/1247/?beginSlide=1 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49596252/displaymode/1247/?beginSlide=1)
C/AB with one insignia wrong and one missing.
Yea, I went there.
Actually both cutouts are there, but they are not 1 inch up and centered, the wing patch looks to be one inch instead of 1/2 inch. But uniform inspection was not the reason for my post.
The young man was providing participating & represented CAP well.
It's not clear in the photo, but those people are handing the food back, because they noticed the improper insignia placement. Not.
Quote from: 754837 on November 01, 2012, 08:49:37 PM
The young man was providing participating & represented CAP well.
Precisely
(http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/16/00/67/3673559/3/628x471.jpg)
Yesterday's release:
QuoteMIDDLE EAST REGION — The Maryland Wing began photo imaging flights today to document Hurricane Sandy's damage in Calvert County and along the Chesapeake Bay shoreline, while the Delaware Wing's imagery flights for the Federal Emergency Management Agency entered a second day.
Meanwhile, along with those two Middle East Region wings, Civil Air Patrol's National Operations Center reports that five Northeast Region wings are flying Hurricane Sandy relief missions – Connecticut, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York and Rhode Island..
At first light this morning, Lt. Col. John Henderson, the Maryland Wing's homeland security officer, flew Christina Macey of the Calvert County Emergency Operations Center over specific points of critical infrastructure in the county; CAP's photographs will be compared with baseline photographs of the same area to determine the extent of the damage. The photos were taken by Majs. Jim Schmidt and Jeff Koubek, the Harford Composite Squadron's communications and assistant communications officers, respectively.
North of Maryland, three Delaware Wing mission pilots – Majs. Bob Buccino, wing director of operations; Ray Stone, wing counterdrug officer; and 1st Lt. Steve Cannon, assistant operations officer for the Coastal Patrol Base 2 Memorial Composite Squadron – began flying out of Dover Air Force Base and New Castle County, Summit and Sussex County airports late Tuesday afternoon. They continued flying until low visibility that evening prevented further photography.
The Delaware Wing flights, expected to continue through Friday, are concentrating on roads and bridges and providing images to access routes encumbered by trees, mud, water, electrical wires or other obstacles. FEMA will use the photos to assess storm damage and to allocate the resources needed to restore the roadway infrastructure.
In Maryland, Capts. Marty Sacks, assistant operations officer for Group 2, and John Ralph, Bowie Composite Squadron commander, will fly imagery missions today to provide the state Emergency Management Agency with damage assessment photos of the Chesapeake Bay shoreline as well as areas around Ocean City on the Atlantic coast.
The hardest-hit areas -- including the barrier islands and the Atlantic coastline from the Delaware to the Virginia state lines; the west side of Chesapeake Bay from Gunpowder Falls to Dundalk, Baltimore Harbor and Riviera Beach; and the west side of Chesapeake Bay from Green Haven through Annapolis and to Chesapeake Beach -- are designated as top priority.
The Maryland Wing will also take photographs of Kent Island, the eastern shoreline in Talbot County, the eastern shoreline of Dorchester County and the western shore of the Chesapeake Bay from Chesapeake Beach south to California, in St. Mary's County. The final sortie will cover the southern part of Chesapeake Bay, including Deal Island south to Crisfield, the islands west of that area and north along the coast to Taylor's Island.
The Maryland sorties are expected to continue through Friday, when the Susquehanna River is expected to crest.
"These flights provide a critical service to the state of Maryland in determining infrastructure needs and problems in real time," said Col. John Knowles, Maryland Wing commander. "I salute the members of the Maryland Wing for the innumerable ways in which they have stepped up in this crisis, from setting up a staging area and conducting flights to repositioning aircraft and manning the state EOC."
Along with aerial imagery missions, the Delaware Wing also provided 24-hour emergency radio coverage at the state Emergency Management Agency from Oct. 28-Oct. 30, as Sandy was bearing down on the area. The coverage included operation of a statewide radio net with regularly scheduled check-ins.
That support also included high-frequency communications in case the emergency reached a point where the normal communications infrastructure was unavailable.
"The Delaware Wing participates in homeland security and disaster response exercises that tests the readiness of local, state and national organizations responding to national-level emergencies, including both natural disasters and terrorism incidents," said Col. William "Ziggy" Bernfeld, wing commander.
"The support the wing is providing in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy is the type of activity our members are trained to support, and they are doing an excellent job."
At least as far as this release goes, we're apparently sticking in the little lane we have for ourselves of doing overflights and taking photos. Guess New York wing hasn't got their public affairs guys working on this as no mention of a CAP ground game.
I heard anecdotally that all the GIIEP systems were being held back for, or moved to, the DA.
In ref. to the cadet in the photograph... Imagine how good he feels being involved in the recovery of a true emergency! This, in my opinion, is one key to cadet retention; actually providing a service. Hopefully we will see his photograph some day in the future with 3 diamonds on his collar.
My post actually had a separate underlying point. If he is most likely a new cadet, hasn't been instructed on uniform wear, what are the chances he has a 101 card? I dont think something like this would need it, but if this cadet gets hurt, who's liable?
Quote from: usafaux2004 on November 01, 2012, 10:00:32 PM
My post actually had a separate underlying point. If he is most likely a new cadet, hasn't been instructed on uniform wear, what are the chances he has a 101 card? I dont think something like this would need it, but if this cadet gets hurt, who's liable?
The bigger issue is that he does not have his curry done and therefore does not have his GES at the very least.
He would be ineligible for mission tasking.
That could, in and of itself, be grounds for denying insurance coverage IN THEORY.
In reality if that cadet got hurt, the squadron commander that allowed him to participate in an assigned mission would be in some hot water.
However, that is if he is acting as part of a mission that has a mission number. If the squadron he's a part of just scrounged up some food and decided to donate it, that's their own thing.
All in all, we're all reading too much into this. (myself included)
Todays release - NE region -- there is a little mention of a ground game
QuoteNEW HAMPSHIRE – Northeast Region aircrews expect to make 16 more flights today and 20 Friday as they continue assessing damage from Hurricane Sandy, with some also looking for people possibly stranded in deep snow in West Virginia.
The flights follow 25 damage assessment sorties carried out Tuesday and Wednesday. The first aerial missions took place Tuesday as soon as winds subsided sufficiently, as aircrews photographed damage to the coastal areas of Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and Rhode Island, along with Massachusetts' Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket Island and Rhode Island's Block Island.
CAP members also conducted flights over Maryland and Delaware in CAP's neighboring Middle East Region, which includes West Virginia.
"It's a large cooperative effort between the Northeast Region and Middle East Region," said Lt. Col. Paul Ghiron, Northeast Region director of emergency services.
The Northeast Region mobilized aircrews and other personnel before Sandy struck the northeast coast, launching two flights over Connecticut and Rhode Island, staffing emergency operations centers in each state, sending liaison officers to three Federal Emergency Management Agency regions, staffing the New York City Joint Emergency Management Center and helping the Red Cross load supplies onto trucks in New York.
"So far our response is on the order of what we did last year with Hurricane Irene," Ghiron said, "but we expect to eclipse that.
"We expect to do hundreds of sorties and obtain thousands of images for FEMA," he said.
The region's central command post in New Hampshire is pulling aircrews from all nine wings – Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Vermont – in the Northeast Region, Ghiron said. Hundreds of members are involved in the air and on the ground, including officers and cadets providing assistance to Red Cross shelters in New York and New Jersey.
The storm's impact varied widely from state to state.
In Rhode Island, "there are whole houses completely moved and places where houses are no longer there," said the wing's commander, Col. Benjamin Emerick. "There are a lot of boats mixed in, too."
His wing has "been flying the past two days, in between the bad weather bands," Emerick said.
The Rhode Island Wing has been averaging 3½ flights a day, with multiple aircrews using the wing's lone CAP plane Tuesday and Wednesday and generating about 600-700 digital damage assessment photos of the state's storm-battered coastline, he said.
Wednesday morning, he said, FEMA's director of operations for the state received a bird's-eye view of the coastline courtesy of one aircrew.
In addition, aircrew members have used one of the Rhode Island National Guard's Geospatial Information Interoperability Exploitation – Portable kits to provide live video of portions of the flights to the state Emergency Operations Center.
The Maine Wing's aerial missions actually began a few days before the storm neared, with two flights carried out Sunday to supply 63 aerial photos of the state's coastline south of Portland.
"The state was pretty proactive," said the wing's commander, Col. Dan Leclair said. "That way, they would know the extent of the damage."
Minimal damage was also reported in New Hampshire, where the wing flew a mission Wednesday to evaluate the impact on forested areas of the state.
The Northeast Region established its Area Coordination Center after a meeting and conference call with available personnel Monday. The center opened Tuesday morning in Concord, N.H., as the storm was bearing down on the area.
Ghiron said the Northeast Region is unusual in that it overlaps three FEMA regions – six New England states in Region 1, New York and New Jersey in Region 2 and Pennsylvania in Region 3. The command is responsible for receiving taskings from the FEMA regions and relaying them to the involved wings to carry out.
The center is being staffed from 7 a.m.-9 p.m. daily by 10 to 15 CAP members from the Maine, New Hampshire, New York and Rhode Island wings. Lt. Col. Paul Mondoux, Northeast Region director of safety, and Lt. Col. Robert Shaw, the region's chief of staff and commander of the New Hampshire Wing's Hawk Composite Squadron, have been designated as the area incident commanders.
Wasnt hard to do, but I did some digging and am 90% sure I have identified the cadet, his unit and lack of GES qualification.
But as Travis has said we may be reading too much into it.
NHQ did set up Hurricane Sandy as one of the significant missions that gets its own web site: http://www.capvolunteernow.com/highprofile_missions/hurricanes/2012__hurricane_sandy/ (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/highprofile_missions/hurricanes/2012__hurricane_sandy/)
NHQ's Sandy site is pretty weak.
The lack of ground team missions is not surprising.
After the Northridge Earthquake in 1994 we had "ground team" missions for about 3 or 4 days and then they pretty much dried up.
But we ended up supporting the Red Cross for about 6 weeks.
Handing out meals from the Red Cross ERV's (Emergency Response Vehicle) and running their warehouse facility at Van Nuys Airport.
Matter of fact, that warehouse operation was just about a 100% cadet run operation with minimal senior member oversight.
Wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Hurricane Sandy DR mission ended up doing something along the same line.
Well, I'd consider Red Cross type missions "ground" missions. We're not going to have a lot of traditional CAP ground team missions after most national disasters and I don't think many expect that to ever change. However, other uses of CAP members for ground-based missions are certainly possible but there has been and I suspect will continue to be no national direction or policy on what those missions might be and what we should be training for.
Anything with the word "mission" behind it has specific requirements in regards to qualifications, training, and supervision.
Working a shelter in a DA, IMO, should not be done ad-hoc as community service. There are far too many variables and
risks to allow members to do it with zero training, proper supervision, funding, and not the least of which, liability and
personal injury protection.
The logic is quite interesting.
A slick-sleeve cadet, or senior member with a wet ID card, who wouldn't even be allowed to observe a UDF training exercise,
is perfectly OK to have working in a hazardous area, doing Lord knows what, for lord knows who, and with no requisite supervision
under the auspices of a "unit activity".
In this case we're talking about square miles of flooded areas with downed power lines, open gas mains, who knows what in the water,
who knows what in the population, and people who may be "less then honorable" in regards to how they treat a member. No one
who isn't at >least< GT3 should even be looking in that direction, let alone be allowed to work the zone.
While doing house-to-house searches in Mississippi, I used just about every piece of gear in my kit, not to mention having to keep
my wits about me the entire time. We had high-birds, regular radio checks, team procedures, not to mention a who laundry list
of SOP should things go "bad".
Properly trained CAP members can be a big asset in these cases, but untrained personnel should not be involved on any level.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 02, 2012, 02:32:51 AM
Properly trained CAP members can be a big asset in these cases, but untrained personnel should not be involved on any level.
Thats the thing -- our ground teams don't have any real training other than in wilderness SAR. CERT is available but there is no requirement for it and no doctrine on how CAP teams can do CERT stuff (some of which arguably is not possible under current CAP regulations).
We have desperately needed a doctrine on use of CAP personnel in ground based disaster relief missions for decades. The lack of it shows in situations like this.
CERT training through HLS is gone in the next few months.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 02, 2012, 02:44:13 AMWe have desperately needed a doctrine on use of CAP personnel in ground based disaster relief missions for decades. The lack of it shows in situations like this.
I'd have to pretty much agree - the idea of a ready force of members who can be self-sufficient for several days on a few hours notice
has huge value, but the lack of definition of duties hurts us in getting the phones calls.
CAP training in ES is geared for air operations and ground teams. emphasis on TEAMS. However in disater relief, CAP operates under outside agencies as directed. The outside agency is usually the County or area Emergency Management staff. So in one respect, the CAP member working with distribution of food,water and emergency supplies is self-deployed. There are many areas in disaster relief where CAP can be useful, but rarely as a unit, but rather as needed to suppliment the paid professionals, or to supply needed manpower.
How often has CAP deployed as a unit to a disaster relief practice or test on the county or area level? From what I've observed in Florida, the few Squadrons that have an MOU with Emergency Management are the only units active in a hurricane aftermath. And it seems they have taken opart in the EM training run by the County. But even then they operate under EM or in some cases FEMA control and command.
USAF and TSU-
You have commented on the possibility of CAP members operating without Gen ES and other ES training.
I say again, that squadrons in New York City were told to allow senior members and cadets over 18 whether they were qualified in ES or not to work during this emergency.
In my opinion, as I am ES Officer for my squadron, this removes any incentive for them to train themselves in Emergency Services. But when the request comes from Group, who am I to complain? And if the request to "include any senior regardless of whether they have ES quals" comes from Group, it also probably has the blessing of the Wing.
So far, the duties assigned to my squadron members appear to be at shelters, and work that may be considered for MSA.
Take care,
Flyer
I think it's great that they allow them to do something, but without doing the research as someone has done, I doubt that cadet is 18+.
Quote from: flyer333555 on November 02, 2012, 02:10:00 PM
USAF and TSU-
You have commented on the possibility of CAP members operating without Gen ES and other ES training.
I say again, that squadrons in New York City were told to allow senior members and cadets over 18 whether they were qualified in ES or not to work during this emergency.
In my opinion, as I am ES Officer for my squadron, this removes any incentive for them to train themselves in Emergency Services. But when the request comes from Group, who am I to complain? And if the request to "include any senior regardless of whether they have ES quals" comes from Group, it also probably has the blessing of the Wing.
So far, the duties assigned to my squadron members appear to be at shelters, and work that may be considered for MSA.
Take care,
Flyer
By removing the GES requirement you've opened the door to allow members without curry (though those would be very rare at the 18+ mark) and seniors without level 1.
This also means no requirement for any NIMS courses, or even basic knowledge of how CAP operates at that point.
I'm not going to Monday Morning Quarterback your Wing King, especially since I'm nice and cozy as far away from an ocean as you can get, and I can't really imagine what's going on. But if he want's to accept responsibility for placing untrained members in the field, well, I guess thats on him.
Then again, just exactly how much of our training does deal with unloading stuff from a vehicle and handing it to people?
Really? Is that much different than unloading supplies for an air show?
Granted you've not got agitated, hungry, freaked out people clamoring for what you've got. But it's not like they're out there alone either.
River-
To me, Red Cross type missions can be a mix.
Damage Assessment type is more akin to Ground Teams and UDF. Shelter operations are more like Mission Staff Assistants, in which you escort the Guests (as one of the administrators was telling us we should call the evacuees) from registration to designated areas. You could collect also info.
Flyer
Fine - then require MSA.
You can't have people in uniform, with no training, qualifications or supervision wandering around "helping".
It seems like a good idea until someone gets hurt, or hurts someone else, then the disavow parade starts.
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 02, 2012, 02:46:30 AM
CERT training through HLS is gone in the next few months.
"What you talkin' about Willis?"
CERT gone?
Quote from: CAPR 60-3. Section B. 1-10. d.
d. Only qualified CAP members, qualified members of other agencies with which CAP
has an approved memorandum of understanding, and CAP mission trainees under the
supervision of a qualified person may participate in CAP operational missions. There will be at
a minimum a 1-to-3 ratio of supervisors to trainees when trainees are utilized.
Seems pretty cut and dry.
You are either qualified or you are not. If you are not, then stay home, and remember this for next time.
Quote from: tsrup on November 02, 2012, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: CAPR 60-3. Section B. 1-10. d.
d. Only qualified CAP members, qualified members of other agencies with which CAP
has an approved memorandum of understanding, and CAP mission trainees under the
supervision of a qualified person may participate in CAP operational missions. There will be at
a minimum a 1-to-3 ratio of supervisors to trainees when trainees are utilized.
Seems pretty cut and dry.
You are either qualified or you are not. If you are not, then stay home, and remember this for next time.
Easy for you to say when you're not in the middle of the disaster area.
The local commander seems to have exercised some "Commander's descrition" on this one.
And since no one, in authority, in NYWG has called them on it. I guess they'll live with it.
Quote from: PHall on November 02, 2012, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: tsrup on November 02, 2012, 06:51:07 PM
Quote from: CAPR 60-3. Section B. 1-10. d.
d. Only qualified CAP members, qualified members of other agencies with which CAP
has an approved memorandum of understanding, and CAP mission trainees under the
supervision of a qualified person may participate in CAP operational missions. There will be at
a minimum a 1-to-3 ratio of supervisors to trainees when trainees are utilized.
Seems pretty cut and dry.
You are either qualified or you are not. If you are not, then stay home, and remember this for next time.
Easy for you to say when you're not in the middle of the disaster area.
The local commander seems to have exercised some "Commander's descrition" on this one.
And since no one, in authority, in NYWG has called them on it. I guess they'll live with it.
I have been to quite a few disaster areas. And I wouldn't put unqualified personnel in the middle of them. Period.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 02, 2012, 02:32:51 AM
Properly trained CAP members can be a big asset in these cases, but untrained personnel should not be involved on any level.
:clap: :clap:
I agree wholeheartedly. CAP goes on and on about safety, sometimes more than is necessary. We claim to be a professional resource but when something big happens we sometimes fall all over ourselves in our haste to "do something," throwing caution out the window in the process. At a minimum we should know all deployable CAP members are trained to ensure they won't needlessly add to the victim count.
Want to help support CAP in Sandy's relief effort? There is a crowd sourcing effort to identify damage done from Sandy. If you have a few spare minutes follow this link to rate pictures taken of areas affected by Sandy.
http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?cap_members_ask_to_help_rate_aerial_damage_photos_in_online_crowdsourcing_project&show=news&newsID=15281 (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?cap_members_ask_to_help_rate_aerial_damage_photos_in_online_crowdsourcing_project&show=news&newsID=15281)
When If I become a Wing Commander, and wear Lt Colonel oak leaf, I will follow the regulations as written.
If I become a Wing CC or Group CC, I will not ask for anybody, I will ask for those qualified in ES.
Although at the moment, even though I have 10 years in CAP, I wear the single white/silver bar of a lieutenant.
I will not question anyone wearing a gold oak leaf in command of a Group, when in the middle of an emergency writes a captain of his Group who is the ES Officer to "call out anyone whether they are qualified in ES or not." I am pretty sure that person consulted with his boss, who wears a white/silver oak leaf.
He had reason to do so, and that is his prerogative.
Flyer
For starters, Wing CC's wear eagles, not oak leaves.
Quote from: flyer333555 on November 02, 2012, 10:01:12 PMI will not question anyone wearing a gold oak leaf in command of a Group, when in the middle of an emergency writes a captain of his Group who is the ES Officer to "call out anyone whether they are qualified in ES or not." I am pretty sure that person consulted with his boss, who wears a white/silver oak leaf.
Who he may, or may not have "consulted with", does not change the very specific regs on this matter, nor will it matter
in a court room if the member is injured and requests benefits, or injures someone else and wants to be defended
by CAP's counsel. People with common sense do not rely on a "court's goodwill", when they knowingly break clear regulations
and do "what they have to".
Riveraux hit the nail square - we spend enormous amounts of time, money, and member initiative and good will on procedures, safety requirements,
training, and monitoring qualifications, and then in some parts of the world, that all goes out the window the minute things get sporty because
practical reality conflicts with the lack of ES programs in those same wings.
We can't have it both ways and maintain any air of legitimacy or credibility.
If CAP is to be an "all hands on deck", so be it. Many other orgs function that way.
But in the current paradigm of CAP, you're either qualified, or you're not. And if you're not, you
stay home. Period.
Otherwise, how is anyone trying to stress training and proficiency supposed to stand in the front of the room with a straight
face and get people to "waste" their weekends, when they know it won't matter in the end?
Quote from: wuzafuzz on November 02, 2012, 06:50:26 PM
Quote from: jimmydeanno on November 02, 2012, 02:46:30 AM
CERT training through HLS is gone in the next few months.
"What you talkin' about Willis?"
CERT gone?
The DHS director 'round hea was telling me the other day that the 20 hour course for CERT is going away at the start of next year. Their funding to run the course, materials, etc., have been eliminated and they will no longer be offering it.
Quote from: flyer333555 on November 02, 2012, 10:01:12 PM
When If I become a Wing Commander, and wear Lt Colonel oak leaf, I will follow the regulations as written.
If I become a Wing CC or Group CC, I will not ask for anybody, I will ask for those qualified in ES.
Although at the moment, even though I have 10 years in CAP, I wear the single white/silver bar of a lieutenant.
I will not question anyone wearing a gold oak leaf in command of a Group, when in the middle of an emergency writes a captain of his Group who is the ES Officer to "call out anyone whether they are qualified in ES or not." I am pretty sure that person consulted with his boss, who wears a white/silver oak leaf.
He had reason to do so, and that is his prerogative.
Flyer
I'm going to throw the flag on this one. As a CC it is my job to make sure that even when these requests come from above, that my unit still complies with regulation.
It would be my prerogative to ensure that these issues were brought up the chain of command and clarification was made.
Supplement or waiver to CAPR 60-3 cannot be done at the unit level or even the group level. It must be done at the wing level and approved by CAP-USAF, The Region, and NHQ.
If the order came down, my response would be "Sir/Ma'am, you understand that this order is in violation of CAPR 60-3 as written, and that it would place my personnel at risk?"
Who knows, maybe this was an oversight that the wing wasn't aware of at the time and now they are,or steps were taken to either get the appropriate waiver or supplement that I wasn't aware of and then I'm told to shut up and color.
As a Unit CC I am duty bound to disregard unlawful orders. If the Wing CC want's to nail me for not calling up unqualified members, I'd have the backing of the regulation in an IG investigation.
Quote from: tsrup on November 03, 2012, 12:19:37 AM
Quote from: flyer333555 on November 02, 2012, 10:01:12 PM
When If I become a Wing Commander, and wear Lt Colonel oak leaf, I will follow the regulations as written.
If I become a Wing CC or Group CC, I will not ask for anybody, I will ask for those qualified in ES.
Although at the moment, even though I have 10 years in CAP, I wear the single white/silver bar of a lieutenant.
I will not question anyone wearing a gold oak leaf in command of a Group, when in the middle of an emergency writes a captain of his Group who is the ES Officer to "call out anyone whether they are qualified in ES or not." I am pretty sure that person consulted with his boss, who wears a white/silver oak leaf.
He had reason to do so, and that is his prerogative.
Flyer
I'm going to throw the flag on this one. As a CC it is my job to make sure that even when these requests come from above, that my unit still complies with regulation.
It would be my prerogative to ensure that these issues were brought up the chain of command and clarification was made.
Supplement or waiver to CAPR 60-3 cannot be done at the unit level or even the group level. It must be done at the wing level and approved by CAP-USAF, The Region, and NHQ.
If the order came down, my response would be "Sir/Ma'am, you understand that this order is in violation of CAPR 60-3 as written, and that it would place my personnel at risk?"
Who knows, maybe this was an oversight that the wing wasn't aware of at the time and now they are,or steps were taken to either get the appropriate waiver or supplement that I wasn't aware of and then I'm told to shut up and color.
As a Unit CC I am duty bound to disregard unlawful orders. If the Wing CC want's to nail me for not calling up unqualified members, I'd have the backing of the regulation in an IG investigation.
+1 -- Well said. My thoughts, exactly.
Has anyone considered that A lot of DR work is very similar to routine volunteer service. If someone serves food at a homeless shelter or unloads a truck at the Salvation Army is that any different in times of disaster? After all CAP offer a ribbon for hours of community service.
Just a thought
Not necessarily to stir the pot, but a critical reading of CAPR 60-3 regarding DROPS is very important to grasp the scope of what is needed for CAP to do, and to also realize that our current (and stale old paradigm) SOP of deploying ground teams into a DR environment is quite irresponsible and needs to change.
From CAPR 60-3:
Page 24
e. Only personnel holding a valid CAPF 101 (or authorized on equivalent computer rosters noted below) containing the applicable specialty rating(s) may be assigned to perform duties on CAP operational missions.
This is an inherently important statement that can't be overemphasized. It basically means that when conditions warrant, do you what you have to do to get the job done. --
Page 27
g. There are some duty positions that CAP does not have specific specialty qualifications identified. Any CAP IC can appoint any GES qualified member to fill these gaps in order to meet the needs of the mission, but must use good judgment to select personnel who have the appropriate training and backgrounds to be able to successfully complete their assignment.
Bottom line is, Disaster Relief, according to Federal Law is our job and yet as someone mentioned, CAP has yet to develop a doctrine for meeting the requirements dictated. This glaring discrepancy has been mentioned several times on CAPTalk over the years.
And, I hate to say it, but the few air missions we fly providing digital images into whatever black hole they go to, when we have literally thousands of members on the ground that can be organized, trained and making a huge difference on the ground during a disaster doesn't cut it. I'm not opposed to the air mission, but when being flown, the infrastructure should be in place to get those images directly in to that state and/or local EOC for immediate feedback/effect by the state/local decisionmakers. In the current situation in NY and NJ, it my distinct feeling that there should be a tremendous showing of CAP personnel on the ground doing what needs to be done (provided they have the proper credentials). This is a disaster and response of historic proportions that will deserve studying for years to come in terms of what we did, didn't do, and could have done better.
Each wing really needs an aggressive DR staff, at least three or four deep to address training and partnering challenges from the local units and local emergency management to the state level. Partnering with emergency management at local and state level takes a genuine level of commitment and must be long term. It's not easy and can be a political minefield if CAP drops the ball when the time comes to deploy.
Another gem from 60-3.....that is not a mere suggestion but a requirement:
(4) Coordinate with local agencies for training, equipment, joint exercises, plans, etc. Ensure all commitments can be met. Do not over-obligate your unit.
If a local unit's ES shop doesn't have anyone who can take time to meet with and partner with their local EM shop....that's a problem.
In a state-wide disaster like NY and NJ are experiencing, the primary CAP IC would be based at the State EOC with a couple of people to address/coordinate various taskings as they come in. At the parish/county level, an agency liaison rep would be at that local EOC in the event CAP personnel are conducting operations in that political jurisdiction. If that 'network' of CAPIC and Agency Liaison isn't in place, it sets the stage for C2 or C3 issues and can cause definite confusion. This is something that must be exercised prior to an event happening to address issues as they arise.
:o Sorry for rambling, this is a pretty big soapbox of mine... :-X
Quote from: isuhawkeye on November 03, 2012, 11:46:42 PM
Has anyone considered that A lot of DR work is very similar to routine volunteer service. If someone serves food at a homeless shelter or unloads a truck at the Salvation Army is that any different in times of disaster? After all CAP offer a ribbon for hours of community service.
Just a thought
I would tend to disagree with you as an actual DR environment is extremely hazardous if for no other reason the stress of both the responders, and the victims and what that entails.
We train all of our folks in this program:
http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is26.asp (http://training.fema.gov/EMIWeb/IS/is26.asp) to be able to participate in distribution operations and it's nothing like a homeless shelter situation. Local emergency managment agencies are well familiar with the POD program and usually welcome groups willing to organize and provide those services. CAP in North Carolina is a primary provider of POD operations. The manual is an excellent resource to keep on file.
Quote from: isuhawkeye on November 03, 2012, 11:46:42 PM
Has anyone considered that A lot of DR work is very similar to routine volunteer service. If someone serves food at a homeless shelter or unloads a truck at the Salvation Army is that any different in times of disaster? After all CAP offer a ribbon for hours of community service.
Just a thought
The Community Service ribbon is recognition for service that is completely unrelated to the Civil Air Patrol.
If they are called up for service to do disaster recovery work under the auspices of the Civil Air Patrol that means they are covered under the insurance of the Civil Air Patrol and/or the United States Air Force and must comply with all the regulations involved.
So yes it is different. If they want to volunteer for the salvation army they are free to do so and sign up through the Salvation Army process to get covered by their liability insurance in the event of an injury or accident. That would be outside the auspices of the Civil Air Patrol.
Quote from: LTC Don on November 03, 2012, 11:48:23 PM
Not necessarily to stir the pot, but a critical reading of CAPR 60-3 regarding DROPS is very important to grasp the scope of what is needed for CAP to do, and to also realize that our current (and stale old paradigm) SOP of deploying ground teams into a DR environment is quite irresponsible and needs to change.
From CAPR 60-3:
Page 24
e. Only personnel holding a valid CAPF 101 (or authorized on equivalent computer rosters noted below) containing the applicable specialty rating(s) may be assigned to perform duties on CAP operational missions.
This is an inherently important statement that can't be overemphasized. It basically means that when conditions warrant, do you what you have to do to get the job done. --
Page 27
g. There are some duty positions that CAP does not have specific specialty qualifications identified. Any CAP IC can appoint any GES qualified member to fill these gaps in order to meet the needs of the mission, but must use good judgment to select personnel who have the appropriate training and backgrounds to be able to successfully complete their assignment.
Bottom line is, Disaster Relief, according to Federal Law is our job and yet as someone mentioned, CAP has yet to develop a doctrine for meeting the requirements dictated. This glaring discrepancy has been mentioned several times on CAPTalk over the years.
emphasis mine
-Still would bar cadets without at least curry and senior members without at least level 1.
Quote from: LTC Don on November 03, 2012, 11:48:23 PMThis is an inherently important statement that can't be overemphasized. It basically means that when conditions warrant, do you what you have to do to get the job done. --
Page 27
g. There are some duty positions that CAP does not have specific specialty qualifications identified. Any CAP IC can appoint any GES qualified member to fill these gaps in order to meet the needs of the mission, but must use good judgment to select personnel who have the appropriate training and backgrounds to be able to successfully complete their assignment.
Fair enough - what are the key words there.
IC - which means there's a mission number at a minimum. A unit CC, on his own, cannot approve a CAP mission - safety valve.
GES Qualified - while I personally disagree with the term "GES Qualified" (GES is a pre-requisite, not a qualification), that at least
requires Curry cadets, and L1 seniors, who have at least
glanced at the most basic tenants of our ES rules, including the
ICS chain of command.
60-3 does not allow for the average Unit CC to just run out the door with 3 slick sleeves to start "doing what needs to be done".
Like the whole world of ES, there's rules and a process - in this case, that hurricane was coming up the coast for a week+, more then
enough time to get units fully spun up and at least minimally qualified, assuming they could be bothered.
Wing CC's have the full power to spin up C-Missions on their whim, and can spin up 911T missions when warranted, so there's no
such thing as "not enough time".
So back to the original point - you're either qualified, even if that means minimally, or you stay home.
GES ought to be a routine element in getting new members -- cadet & senior -- started in CAP.
Even those who come in professing no interest in taking part in ES activities should be urged to complete this very fundamental training, for the simple reason that when disaster strikes, nearly everyone wants to contribute.
If they have GES, we can utilize their services as deemed appropriate by their commanders (who need in some cases whether to permit an individual to respond at all) and the mission IC and staff (concerning what responders will actually do).
There are always jobs that need doing at shelters, ICPs, staging areas and similar venues...some are very simple clerical tasks, others logistical...we can't sit here and decide who can do what on the ground.
What we do know is that for the member and the organization to be protected from liability, those members all need the basic preparation to participate.
If it were up to me, GES would be required for the Mitchell (encouraged sooner, for capable cadets)and for completion of Level 1.
Quote from: ZigZag911 on November 04, 2012, 05:17:44 PMIf it were up to me, GES would be required for the Mitchell (encouraged sooner, for capable cadets)and for completion of Level 1.
I'd say it should be required for Curry and Level 1. It's not like its complicated.
At least that way 1/3rd of our mission wouldn't be treated as optional.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 04, 2012, 05:27:43 PM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on November 04, 2012, 05:17:44 PMIf it were up to me, GES would be required for the Mitchell (encouraged sooner, for capable cadets)and for completion of Level 1.
I'd say it should be required for Curry and Level 1. It's not like its complicated.
At least that way 1/3rd of our mission wouldn't be treated as optional.
You know, this is one of the better ideas I've heard on CAPTalk in a long time.
The last press release http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?massive_aerial_image_mission_seen_as_caps_largest_ever_under_way_in_sandys_aftermath&show=news&newsID=15285 (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?massive_aerial_image_mission_seen_as_caps_largest_ever_under_way_in_sandys_aftermath&show=news&newsID=15285) says and I thought this was interesting:
QuoteCAP aircrews from the Northeast, Middle East and Great Lakes regions expect to fly 60-70 sorties and a total of 200 hours capturing images of every square inch of the eastern coastline, Leclair said.
The mission, which is being flown in a grid pattern similar to those CAP follows in conducting search and rescue missions, represents a paradigm shift from how the organization has conducted aerial photo missions in the past.
"This is a cultural change in how we take pictures," Leclair said. "Yesterday we were looking only for damage, but today we will photograph everything, regardless of whether there is damage or not. We will give FEMA the broadest view of what's occurred as possible, which will position them to readily pinpoint the areas of greatest need."
Quote from: RiverAux on November 04, 2012, 10:35:17 PM
The last press release http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?massive_aerial_image_mission_seen_as_caps_largest_ever_under_way_in_sandys_aftermath&show=news&newsID=15285 (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?massive_aerial_image_mission_seen_as_caps_largest_ever_under_way_in_sandys_aftermath&show=news&newsID=15285) says and I thought this was interesting:
QuoteCAP aircrews from the Northeast, Middle East and Great Lakes regions expect to fly 60-70 sorties and a total of 200 hours capturing images of every square inch of the eastern coastline, Leclair said.
The mission, which is being flown in a grid pattern similar to those CAP follows in conducting search and rescue missions, represents a paradigm shift from how the organization has conducted aerial photo missions in the past.
"This is a cultural change in how we take pictures," Leclair said. "Yesterday we were looking only for damage, but today we will photograph everything, regardless of whether there is damage or not. We will give FEMA the broadest view of what's occurred as possible, which will position them to readily pinpoint the areas of greatest need."
Interesting...looks like I have a new photo tasking to work into exercises for my Wing this year.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 04, 2012, 05:27:43 PM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on November 04, 2012, 05:17:44 PMIf it were up to me, GES would be required for the Mitchell (encouraged sooner, for capable cadets)and for completion of Level 1.
I'd say it should be required for Curry and Level 1. It's not like its complicated.
At least that way 1/3rd of our mission wouldn't be treated as optional.
But it is optional.
Quote from: PHall on November 05, 2012, 12:08:57 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 04, 2012, 05:27:43 PM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on November 04, 2012, 05:17:44 PMIf it were up to me, GES would be required for the Mitchell (encouraged sooner, for capable cadets)and for completion of Level 1.
I'd say it should be required for Curry and Level 1. It's not like its complicated.
At least that way 1/3rd of our mission wouldn't be treated as optional.
But it is optional.
The mission, at the wing level, has three points, none of which are optional.
Units within a wing have to pick up their piece, as directed by the Wing CC, to accomplish the total mission.
The fact that many Wing CC's never provide this direction, or believe that Units should be self-directed and actualizing
is a problem which needs to be corrected.
When you join the CAP, you join the total force, with the total mission, not one prop.
Members may be free to choose the how and where they are involved, but the organization does not, and the
units should not, have that option.
Quote from: JeffDG on November 04, 2012, 11:55:28 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on November 04, 2012, 10:35:17 PM
The last press release http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?massive_aerial_image_mission_seen_as_caps_largest_ever_under_way_in_sandys_aftermath&show=news&newsID=15285 (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?massive_aerial_image_mission_seen_as_caps_largest_ever_under_way_in_sandys_aftermath&show=news&newsID=15285) says and I thought this was interesting:
QuoteCAP aircrews from the Northeast, Middle East and Great Lakes regions expect to fly 60-70 sorties and a total of 200 hours capturing images of every square inch of the eastern coastline, Leclair said.
The mission, which is being flown in a grid pattern similar to those CAP follows in conducting search and rescue missions, represents a paradigm shift from how the organization has conducted aerial photo missions in the past.
"This is a cultural change in how we take pictures," Leclair said. "Yesterday we were looking only for damage, but today we will photograph everything, regardless of whether there is damage or not. We will give FEMA the broadest view of what's occurred as possible, which will position them to readily pinpoint the areas of greatest need."
Interesting...looks like I have a new photo tasking to work into exercises for my Wing this year.
On the subject of the FEMA Photo Survey Flights: Surely someone on here has participated in the process of developing that new methodology and will share their information, but in the meantime I will relate what I can from Louisiana Wing's recent experience with this new approach.
My understanding is that FEMA has been working with NHQ and one or two Wings to develop this new approach. (Sorry, I don't know which Wings.)
The basic idea is to be a cheap satellite/U2 replacement. Vertical shots straight down, from altitudes of 8 - 10 thousand feet, with the Nikon DSLR cameras set to their maximum resolution. This yields a minimum resolution of something like 1 or 2 meters per pixel, which is sufficient for FEMA's purposes of wide area damage analysis.
The sorties are flown much like a grid search, with minimal (but some) photo overlap so that you bring back photos that can be geolocated into a Google Earth-like system. (I was told there were a couple of different systems in use, but I know Louisiana was using the data in their Virtual Louisiana system, which is a licensed standalone Google Earth implementation, which many State EMAs now have.)
Of particular note: FEMA provided all of their target coordinates and maps in GMRS military grid format. We had to provide for conversion of all the target coordinates before issuing taskings to aircrew. (Remember that the US SAR Manual (I'll find the quote later) says it is CAP's responsibility to translate from non-DegreeMinute coordinate systems, so we should be prepared for this to happen more in the future.)
The images are geocoded during/after flight with location info, and renamed according to the target name, coordinates, and date/time, but no data was visibly stamped on them. This makes sense given they were being used as overlays on a globe, no need for a bunch of CAP logos and title info floating around.
FEMA uses this info to count damaged structures and roads, tarped roofs, etc.
Our mission after Hurricane Isaac went pretty smoothly once we got a system in place for processing the FEMA requests, and got aircrews used to the new paradigm. Hopefully if this program continues we will get NHQ/NESA/etc. providing some definitive guidance on this new approach.
--
Thom
Quote from: PHall on November 05, 2012, 12:08:57 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 04, 2012, 05:27:43 PM
Quote from: ZigZag911 on November 04, 2012, 05:17:44 PMIf it were up to me, GES would be required for the Mitchell (encouraged sooner, for capable cadets)and for completion of Level 1.
I'd say it should be required for Curry and Level 1. It's not like its complicated.
At least that way 1/3rd of our mission wouldn't be treated as optional.
But it is optional.
Yes, it is Optional. I encourage all of the members of my unit to support all three missions of our organization though. I
Harass strongly encourage them to at least get GES and one mission qualification, even if it's just to understand our mission. I also ask that members complete the Yeager award in support of our AE mission. With as many Cadets as my unit has everyone is assigned a duty assignment or task that supports the Cadet Program.
Not being too far away from WIWAC, I can say that the cadet perspective on the ES was split: Those who like the hardkewl, those who are "meh" about it, and those who are completely uninterested.
Hardkewl kids had the Kevlar helmets and tactikewl gear, maybe even at times cared for the training (beyond getting the GMT badge).
"Meh" was my group, where I did the training, but realized that the missions are rare enough, and cadet time availability/opportunity small enough where this really is not a big part of the cadet program.
Then those who are uninterested...because that's not what they joined CAP for.
Cadets are in the CAP Cadet Program. Their focus should be on the Cadet Program, and AE to at least the extent that it is needed for the CP (Modules, Rockets, etc).
Anything beyond should not be required of the cadets, because when you get them doing enough of the stuff they don't want to do, they simply quit.
Squadron CC's have the discretion to hold off on the CAPF 11 for new members if they so choose to require GES as a requirement, correct?
This may be a non-starter as there are supposed changes coming to the PD program...doubtful any ES requirements will be included, but who knows what the final result will be.
Quote from: RickRutledge on November 05, 2012, 09:19:12 PM
Squadron CC's have the discretion to hold off on the CAPF 11 for new members if they so choose to require GES as a requirement, correct?
This may be a non-starter as there are supposed changes coming to the PD program...doubtful any ES requirements will be included, but who knows what the final result will be.
No, a commander may not hold off on a CAPF 11 until GES is completed. A commander may issue an approved supplement requiring GES for any promotion other than duty performance, of they so choose.
Quote from: RickRutledge on November 05, 2012, 09:19:12 PM
Squadron CC's have the discretion to hold off on the CAPF 11 for new members if they so choose to require GES as a requirement, correct?
This may be a non-starter as there are supposed changes coming to the PD program...doubtful any ES requirements will be included, but who knows what the final result will be.
No they don't. The member either completed the requirements for Level I as spelled out in the regs or they didn't.
Quote from: RickRutledge on November 05, 2012, 09:19:12 PM
Squadron CC's have the discretion to hold off on the CAPF 11 for new members if they so choose to require GES as a requirement, correct?
This may be a non-starter as there are supposed changes coming to the PD program...doubtful any ES requirements will be included, but who knows what the final result will be.
So, how exactly could a Squadron CC require GES in order to approve Level 1, when Level 1 is a prerequisite of GES?
Quote from: RogueLeader on November 05, 2012, 09:40:29 PM
No, a commander may not hold off on a CAPF 11 until GES is completed. A commander may issue an approved supplement requiring GES for any promotion other than duty performance, of they so choose.
Answer I needed.
It seemed like a simple solution but I was unaware that we were prohibited from teaching GES and encouraging members to get credit prior to their Level 1 being processed. I have a new member who completed his as NHQ was processing his Level 1 paperwork as encouraged by me, he was allowed to go in and complete it and was given credit before his level 1 was credited. Although, he was not allowed to participate in any outside activities until his Level 1 was processed. I've never seen it written that GES has a Level 1 pre-req, can you site? Just for future reference?
Go to My Ops Quals, and pull up the SQTR for GES. (Yes, there really is one.)
I've looked at it so infrequently that I had forgotten that was a pre-req, however, that still doesn't bar the death by powerpoint correct? The only place I can see that being an issue is with taking the test, which my new SM was able to do before the Lv1 was processed as complete, maybe it's a eServices/eLearning bug...Please forgive my grey matter flatulence.
You can take it before LV1, it just won't turn on until the 11 is processed.
That still doesn't mean a CC can make up rules on the fly. This is my #1 pet peeve.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on November 05, 2012, 10:28:56 PM
That still doesn't mean a CC can make up rules on the fly. This is my #1 pet peeve.
No one was making up rules on the fly, it was simply a question. This is my #1 pet peeve.
The best case would be to make GES part of Level I, just as the other online tests are today.
As pointed out, a commander may not add additional hoops to the existing regs for professional development
or promotions, either the member completed them or they didn't.
Quote from: RickRutledge on November 05, 2012, 10:07:04 PM
It seemed like a simple solution but I was unaware that we were prohibited from teaching GES and encouraging members to get credit prior to their Level 1 being processed. I have a new member who completed his as NHQ was processing his Level 1 paperwork as encouraged by me, he was allowed to go in and complete it and was given credit before his level 1 was credited. Although, he was not allowed to participate in any outside activities until his Level 1 was processed. I've never seen it written that GES has a Level 1 pre-req, can you site? Just for future reference?
Quote from: CAPR 60-32-3 e. General Emergency Services (GES). To participate in emergency services training or operations, personnel must be current traditional members (not patrons, cadet sponsors, AEMs, or legislative members) having completed level one and cadet protection training (senior members) or achievement one (cadets).
Yup. When granting GES, it has a line for Curry / Level 1. It has to be entered, or no GES. :)
Quote from: SARDOC on November 06, 2012, 02:36:23 AM
Quote from: CAPR 60-32-3 e. General Emergency Services (GES). To participate in emergency services training or operations, personnel must be current traditional members (not patrons, cadet sponsors, AEMs, or legislative members) having completed level one and cadet protection training (senior members) or achievement one (cadets).
Got it. We can still teach it, especially if the Lv1 is complete and awaiting processing, but no credit to be received until Lv1 credit is complete.
We had a new SM start this summer. We did a full Level 1 class for him and then right into GES, the idea being he gets started off quickly. I know there are new members that don't want to be heavily involved in ES ops, but there are few people that would balk at helping in an emergency. Mentoring new members into Curry & Level 1 plus GES quickly is a good foundation to CAP overall.
My wing has two crews working. One issue is the new incoming storms which will likely put things on hold for a bit.
Something that just struck me - assuming they didn't vote absentee, these guys will not be able to cast a ballot.
Bummer.
Quote from: Eclipse on November 06, 2012, 04:57:42 PM
My wing has two crews working. One issue is the new incoming storms which will likely put things on hold for a bit.
Something that just struck me - assuming they didn't vote absentee, these guys will not be able to cast a ballot.
Bummer.
I hope they get a chance to vote. Stay safe.
Quote from: SARDOC on November 06, 2012, 05:11:10 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on November 06, 2012, 04:57:42 PM
My wing has two crews working. One issue is the new incoming storms which will likely put things on hold for a bit.
Something that just struck me - assuming they didn't vote absentee, these guys will not be able to cast a ballot.
Bummer.
I hope they get a chance to vote. Stay safe.
I had dinner with those crews last night, Bob. Those that didn't vote absentee before leaving are hosed. Fanboy is in that boat. He's got Skyfall tickets for Wednesday night, too, he's gonna miss that. Bummer.
ETA: Wait, they're from Chicago. Vote Early, Vote Often, right?
MIWG has three crews/AC over there.
Quote from: NIN on November 07, 2012, 05:00:44 AM
I already got the fill from Red Robin One.
As a quick aside, I met Col. Burke this summer at the SAREVAL. Knowing both of you were MIWH cadets, I asked him if he knew you. He raised his eyebrows and replied with a hesitant "...yeeesss..." It was kinda' funny.
Back to the thread at hand.
http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?ny_wing_helps_red_cross_distribute_food_supplies_to_sandyaffected_areas&show=news&newsID=15287 (http://www.capvolunteernow.com/todays-features/?ny_wing_helps_red_cross_distribute_food_supplies_to_sandyaffected_areas&show=news&newsID=15287)
New York Wing spends more than 1000 man-hours helping Red Cross load food. One might argue that this sort of effort is probably actually more useful than all the aerial photographs we took.
Quote from: RiverAux on November 08, 2012, 08:28:33 PM
One might argue that this sort of effort is probably actually more useful than all the aerial photographs we took.
ARE taking. The birds are still here in the NG hangar waiting on Wx today
Sorry, I just go by what our public affairs officers manage to get out there :(
I don't think anyone posted this link yet, or at least I didn't see it.
Zoom in and check out our work, still in progress!
http://fema.apps.esri.com/checkyourhome/ (http://fema.apps.esri.com/checkyourhome/)
Quote from: RiverAux on November 08, 2012, 11:16:48 PM
Sorry, I just go by what our public affairs officers manage to get out there :(
By the looks of the message traffic we will be taking pictures for quite some time.