Minor in possession of alcohol

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I was once young and dumb and full of it myself, so I don't want to come down too hard on this cadet.

I got caught out with alcohol one time when I was a teenager.  My dad caught me trying to sneak in.  In retrospect, I wish he would have left me to the cops rather than what I went through with him for about three hours.

As a former DDRO, if I were the unit's DDRO, I would want to be part of counselling sessions with this cadet, to remind him of the CAP and USAF policies on substance abuse and illegal consumption by minors.  If the unit has a chaplain/CDI, having those involved could also be productive.  I believe the aim here is correction of behaviour, not necessarily punishment.

I don't know if I'd go as far as a 2B, since I really don't like those and the way they're too often abused, but I know I wouldn't be too happy if the cadet didn't own up with me and I found out about it after the fact...maybe a demotion/suspension.

[bflynn]

2-5. Policy on Controlled Substances.
a. Drug-Free Cadet Ethic. Regardless of age, cadets will not possess or consume tobacco products, alcoholic beverages, or illegal drugs in any form while participating in a CAP activity.

The above is consider "misconduct" and is a justifiable reason for termination.

That is an opinion.  I think you need to lighten up a little.  It is possible to uphold standards without kicking a 16 year old out for underage drinking.  Which would be better, to maintain the purity of the cadet corp or to keep a kid who needs a little extra attention out of trouble?

The guideline calls for the seriousness of the offense combined with repeated occurrences of the offence.  If a one time underage drinking conviction is considered a terminal offense then what in your book are the minor offenses?

[cadetesman]

If you have a youth/teen court program, that would be great.

I volunteer as an attorney in one, and the kids who are in it either have the choice of real criminal court, or youth court. In youth court, they admit guilt, and as an attorney, I either represent them or the state, arguing for more lenient, or harsher punishment.

In youth court, none of this goes on your record, and punishment is typically community service, jail tour, drug testing, etc.

So if you have that option, go with that.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

You have about a fifty fifty chance of your CC finding out from you posting here in the first place. Even if you didn't put anything about who you are on here, he can still find out. So just come clean.

[Eclipse]

2-5. Policy on Controlled Substances.
a. Drug-Free Cadet Ethic. Regardless of age, cadets will not possess or consume tobacco products, alcoholic beverages, or illegal drugs in any form while participating in a CAP activity.

The above is consider "misconduct" and is a justifiable reason for termination.

That is an opinion.  I think you need to lighten up a little.

Yes, it is, and one shared by NHQ (though again, primarily in the context of a CAP activity).  See KB answer 964.
I already said that I didn't necessarily advocate a termination, only that it is an option.

"Minor" offenses don't generally involve the criminal justice system.  In the case of alcohol or tobacco use by cadets, period, CAP and the USAF
have spent a fair amount of effort and expense in stressing that it is 100% unacceptable, so if nothing else, that message has been lost on this cadet,
(and by his statements, apparently on some of his peers as well).

[123Marine]

Point taken about this not being a CAP activity, but considering the USAF / CAP DDR emphasis, and this is a 16-year old
insinuating his conduct isn't "so bad compared to others", I'd say termination is certainly on the table.

That's not the route I would necessarily take for a (presumed) first offense, but it's an option to the commander.

I'm not saying my actions are mundane compared to others, I was saying many cadets base their life around CAP, I do not. And yes, this is a first offense. 

[Eclipse]

I'm not saying my actions are mundane compared to others, I was saying many cadets base their life around CAP, I do not. And yes, this is a first offense.

First time you used, or first time you were caught?

[123Marine]

I'm not saying my actions are mundane compared to others, I was saying many cadets base their life around CAP, I do not. And yes, this is a first offense.

First time you used, or first time you were caught?

First time used

[bflynn]

Yes, it is, and one shared by NHQ (though again, primarily in the context of a CAP activity).  See KB answer 964.
I already said that I didn't necessarily advocate a termination, only that it is an option.

KB 964 is specifically targeted at use during a CAP function.  Lacking information that this was a CAP event, CAPR 51-16 section 2-5 does not apply to this situation.  As Mr Spock would say, your logic is faulty, possibly clouded by your passion.

[Eclipse]

Yes, it is, and one shared by NHQ (though again, primarily in the context of a CAP activity).  See KB answer 964.
I already said that I didn't necessarily advocate a termination, only that it is an option.

KB 964 is specifically targeted at use during a CAP function.  Lacking information that this was a CAP event, CAPR 51-16 section 2-5 does not apply to this situation.  As Mr Spock would say, your logic is faulty, possibly clouded by your passion.

And you just aren't reading the threads, since I said that twice.

The point of the response, was that NHQ does, in fact, consider alcohol and tobacco use "misconduct" at a level which can be considered for termination.

[MIKE]

Look at teen court

They probably heard about it now, you sorta listed your unit.


See http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082203092704.pdf

That isnt my real unit, I'm not THAT stupid

Members will not knowingly make false or misleading statements with the intent to deceive or confuse others.

Members will not impersonate anybody else.  This includes a ban on falsely stating your grade, rank, position, membership status, or any other personal information.  Members not wishing to use their real name may choose their username as a pseudonym, but will not create and use any other false names.

[123Marine]

Look at teen court

They probably heard about it now, you sorta listed your unit.


See http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_082203092704.pdf

That isnt my real unit, I'm not THAT stupid

Members will not knowingly make false or misleading statements with the intent to deceive or confuse others.

Members will not impersonate anybody else.  This includes a ban on falsely stating your grade, rank, position, membership status, or any other personal information.  Members not wishing to use their real name may choose their username as a pseudonym, but will not create and use any other false names.

I have since removed my unit

[Spaceman3750]

It seems to me that the idea of terminating a cadet for a first-infraction alcohol offense would be counter to the goals of the cadet program. If we are to build capable leaders, we should be encouraging cadets to understand their mistakes and learn from them. So long as a cadet shows remorse and the readiness to take that mistake and become a better person because of it, they should be allowed to stay.

[Eclipse]

Agreed.

[Extremepredjudice]

It seems to me that the idea of terminating a cadet for a first-infraction alcohol offense would be counter to the goals of the cadet program. If we are to build capable leaders, we should be encouraging cadets to understand their mistakes and learn from them. So long as a cadet shows remorse and the readiness to take that mistake and become a better person because of it, they should be allowed to stay.

This.

If you have a youth/teen court program, that would be great.

I volunteer as an attorney in one, and the kids who are in it either have the choice of real criminal court, or youth court. In youth court, they admit guilt, and as an attorney, I either represent them or the state, arguing for more lenient, or harsher punishment.

In youth court, none of this goes on your record, and punishment is typically community service, jail tour, drug testing, etc.

So if you have that option, go with that.

And This. I posted a link to that above.

[bflynn]

And you just aren't reading the threads, since I said that twice.

The point of the response, was that NHQ does, in fact, consider alcohol and tobacco use "misconduct" at a level which can be considered for termination.

Yes, you stated twice that the reg didn't apply, then you referenced a KB answer that quoted the reg. So I reiterated your earlier point.

In any case the decision doesn't rest with any of us.

[abdsp51]

NO need to throw him to the wolves on it if it was a first time offense, but I think a heart to heart with him and or his parents would be in order.  The one thing that seems questionable here is his lack of integrity in regards to the dynamic.

[AngelWings]

My philosophy on situations like this is that you need to own every mistake you make. Mistakes are like debt, you own up to the fact you have it and then you pay it off with a lessoned learned, or you ignore them/ do not own up to them, and they keep stacking up until they take everything away from you, like in real life.

Now, just wondering, why were you drinking beer out in public? I know 15-18 year olds in my school who've had alcohol at parties before inside someones house, but never on the street.

[thatonekid]

^He has a point, do what you will about CAP but dont drink in public that was not an intelligent thing to do.

[Extremepredjudice]

^He has a point, do what you will about CAP but dont drink in public that was not an intelligent thing to do.

Giving advise on how not to get caught while doing an illegal activity isn't the smartest thing to do, either.