wing patch/grade insignia for bdu covers

[1sgtarcherCT062]

my first question, is the wing patch mandatory on bdus? my second question, is it mandatory that the grade insignia on our bdu covers have to be cloth?

[Hawk200]

No, and yes. If you're a First Sergeant as your username implies, you will not wear rank insignia on your hat.

[MIKE]

The wing patch is supposed to be optional, but some wings may vary on their interpretation of "optional."

[DC]

Some wings such as FL, have made the wing patch mandatory. Some wings make it optional, and I believe some wings ban it. PA has their people wear the wing patch if they have not been to Hawk Mountain, they wear the HM patch if they have.

As for grade insignia on covers, yes it must be cloth, and that is only for cadet officers and senior members, cadet airmen and NCOs only wear collar insignia, which is metal.

[1sgtarcherCT062]

thanks a bunch

[JoeTomasone]

To be technical about it, National made the Wing Patch optional, FLWG published a supplement making it mandatory.   This caused some problems at an encapment when some of the staff didn't get the word and went about ripping the patches off of some of the cadets who attended.

Officers (Cadet and Senior) wear embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap.

[mikeylikey]

PA has their people wear the wing patch if they have not been to Hawk Mountain, they wear the HM patch if they have.

Stupid PAWG.  Clearly violating the rules, yet National Leadership lets them get away with it.  

[DC]

This caused some problems at an encapment when some of the staff didn't get the word and went about ripping the patches off of some of the cadets who attended.

I would be so furious if that happened to me it's not funny. No one has the right to go around and rip patches off of other people's uniforms. Especially when they are doing it in ignorance of the proper mandate.

[cap235629]

just a clarification for those of us "Fat and Fuzzies"  Metal rank insignia is authorized on the BLUE BDU hat.....

[MIKE]

just a clarification for those of us "Fat and Fuzzies"  Metal rank insignia is authorized on the BLUE BDU hat.....

For senior members.

Edit:  May have to retract the above comment of mine... Latest ICL on the subject doesn't specify; however the previous did IIRC.

[SSgt Rudin]

To be technical about it, National made the Wing Patch optional, FLWG published a supplement making it mandatory.   This caused some problems at an encapment when some of the staff didn't get the word and went about ripping the patches off of some of the cadets who attended.

Officers (Cadet and Senior) wear embroidered grade insignia on the BDU cap.

Everyone keeps saying there is a FLWG supplement saying the wing patch is required but it isn't on the wing web site, the last supplement to 39-1 on the wing website is dated 01 Feb 04.

[JoeTomasone]

Everyone keeps saying there is a FLWG supplement saying the wing patch is required but it isn't on the wing web site, the last supplement to 39-1 on the wing website is dated 01 Feb 04.

My bad - it's a policy, not a supplement.

http://flwg.us/WPL_06-02_Patch_Policy.pdf

[davedove]

just a clarification for those of us "Fat and Fuzzies"  Metal rank insignia is authorized on the BLUE BDU hat.....

That would be fine at the squadron building, but I don't think I would want to be wondering around out in the field that way, where every tree branch is just waiting for the opportunity to drive those metal posts into your forehead.

[Eclipse]

^I have yet to find a way to put the pin on which does not have the bottom frog poking right through the
center of the head band.

[MIKE]

Because somebody read AFI 36-2903 wrong when they were writing the placement for CAP.

[0]

That would be fine at the squadron building, but I don't think I would want to be wondering around out in the field that way, where every tree branch is just waiting for the opportunity to drive those metal posts into your forehead.

Well in that case you don't have to wear the cover.  Unless your wing has a suppliment or policy on it, you only have to wear the cover if you're also wearing your Field Jacket aside from that cover is optional.

[Eclipse]

Well in that case you don't have to wear the cover.  Unless your wing has a suppliment or policy on it, you only have to wear the cover if you're also wearing your Field Jacket aside from that cover is optional.

?

There is no cover required for the blue field uniform, however with that said, whether yo wear one or not has no connection to whether you are wearing a field jacket (which is also not required).

[davedove]

Well in that case you don't have to wear the cover.  Unless your wing has a suppliment or policy on it, you only have to wear the cover if you're also wearing your Field Jacket aside from that cover is optional.

Well, since I am folically challenged, I DO need to wear the hat any time I am outside.

[0]

Well, since I am folically challenged, I DO need to wear the hat any time I am outside.

That's a horse of a different color.

?

There is no cover required for the blue field uniform, however with that said, whether yo wear one or not has no connection to whether you are wearing a field jacket (which is also not required).

My mistake i reread  the regs.  I could have sworn that I read somewhere if you had the field jacket on that cover was then required.

Edit:  I just found it.  Go to page 15 of the 39-1,  Chapter 4, CAP distinctive.  Read what is says about headgear.

[0]

That's a horse of a different color.


My mistake i reread the regs.  I could have sworn that I read somewhere if you had the field jacket on that cover was then required.

Edit:  I just found it.  Go to page 15 of the 39-1,  Chapter 4, CAP distinctive.  Read what is says about headgear.

[Eclipse]

Edit:  I just found it.  Go to page 15 of the 39-1,  Chapter 4, CAP distinctive.  Read what is says about headgear.

Page 15 doesn't say anything about headgear - make sure you're reading the March 2005 edition.

However page 87 does confirm what you were saying - interesting, going to have to correct some people.
I'd never be caught dead without hat in uniform (other that whites), so its never come up.

Headgear is not required, but the CAP baseball cap and dark blue BDU cap may be worn. If the dark blue field jacket is worn, the CAP baseball cap or dark blue BDU cap must be worn.

They should just make a hat required like with all the other uniforms. Its no wonder people have issues getting this stuff correct.



One interesting note that is on page 15, though:

The battle dress uniform (camouflage fatigue uniform) is worn when it is impractical or inappropriate to wear the service uniforms.

Which says to me that the majority of meetings should have members in whites, blues or golf shirts, not BDUs.

[0]

Page 15 doesn't say anything about headgear - make sure you're reading the March 2005 edition.

However page 87 does confirm what you were saying - interesting, going to have to correct some people.
I'd never be caught dead without hat in uniform (other that whites), so its never come up.

They should just make a hat required like with all the other uniforms. Its no wonder people have issues getting this stuff correct.

No problem National hid it deep within the regs. 

We're actually both right about where to find it.   When I went to look I opend just chapter 4 not the entire 39-1.  At least if you look at what page your PDF reader says you're on it's page 15.

As per what's appropriate as to when and where it all depends on what your unit does.  Some it's more apprpriate to be in BDU's.

[MIKE]

One interesting note that is on page 15, though:
Which says to me that the majority of meetings should have members in whites, blues or golf shirts, not BDUs.

Why the heck aren't the CAPM 39-1 quotes showing up? 

Right... Can you say utility uniform... No reason to starch it to death or cover it with a bunch of excess patchery.  Battle Dress Uniform taken a little too far.

[Duke Dillio]

That would be fine at the squadron building, but I don't think I would want to be wondering around out in the field that way, where every tree branch is just waiting for the opportunity to drive those metal posts into your forehead.

There's a quick fix to this problem.  Instead of using the metal frogs on the back of the insignia, rip two pencil erasers off of two pencils and use them on the backs instead of the metal frogs.  I've never had an issue since I started doing this years ago.

[SSgt Rudin]

There's a quick fix to this problem.  Instead of using the metal frogs on the back of the insignia, rip two pencil erasers off of two pencils and use them on the backs instead of the metal frogs.  I've never had an issue since I started doing this years ago.

AAFES sells a pack of 6 rubber frogs for less than a buck.

[Eclipse]

AAFES sells a pack of 6 rubber frogs for less than a buck.

This isn't an issue of covering the pin, this is an issue of something, anything, sticking through nearly the dead center of the headband into your forehead.  If the hat fits right a pencil eraser is going to be just as uncomfortable.

Remember, the insignia is 1/2" from the brim, not centered on the hat (vertically).

I'm not so into the metal grade I need to hurt myself - I bought a $2 baseball hat from Walmart that matches the uniform color exactly and moved on, sans any grade insignia.

[SSgt Rudin]

This isn't an issue of covering the pin, this is an issue of something, anything, sticking through nearly the dead center of the headband into your forehead.  If the hat fits right a pencil eraser is going to be just as uncomfortable.

Remember, the insignia is 1/2" from the brim, not centered on the hat (vertically).

I'm not so into the metal grade I need to hurt myself - I bought a $2 baseball hat from Walmart that matches the uniform color exactly and moved on, sans any grade insignia.

Tried to find it in 39-1 but, if you have the BDU style hat in navy blue can you just sew on a rank insignia?

[Eclipse]

Tried to find it in 39-1 but, if you have the BDU style hat in navy blue can you just sew on a rank insignia?

Yes - its in the ICL roll-up letter.

[SSgt Rudin]

This isn't an issue of covering the pin, this is an issue of something, anything, sticking through nearly the dead center of the headband into your forehead.  If the hat fits right a pencil eraser is going to be just as uncomfortable.

Remember, the insignia is 1/2" from the brim, not centered on the hat (vertically).

I'm not so into the metal grade I need to hurt myself - I bought a $2 baseball hat from Walmart that matches the uniform color exactly and moved on, sans any grade insignia.

Tried to find it in 39-1 but, if you have the BDU style hat in navy blue can you just sew on a rank insignia?

Yes - its in the ICL roll-up letter.

Problem solved 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

My bad - it's a policy, not a supplement.
http://flwg.us/WPL_06-02_Patch_Policy.pdf

Reads more like a mayoral proclamation, though. With respect to someone with eagles on his shoulders, I'm not sure a commander has to justify himself like that.

I'd be curious to see if the new leadership in Florida wants to retain this policy, or comply directly with national policy. Wouldn't bother me if wing patches went by the wayside altogether, especially when CAP's heraldry is chaotic and the selection of uniform patches is stupefying.

There's been speculation that the challenge-coin design from the 2008 wing conference would become a patch -- but I think that will prove problematic because of the intricacy at a small woven size if for no other reason. The coin was a great idea, though....

[lordmonar]

The wing patch is optional....but subordniate leaders always have the option to make the regulations more strict.

Such as.

The brown or black T-shirts are authorised with the BDUs....I as a squadron commander may say everyone in black...or everyone in brown.

So it is with the wing patch.

National says it is optional.
Region does not say anuthing one way or the other.
Wing says nothing.
I as a squadron CC can say....nothing, or I can say all on or all off.

If Wing says all on.....then I must do the same.

It is not rocket science and it is not a violation of the rules.

Now that does not mean someone can say....you can wear this patch instead (PAWG).

But I don't have any control over them.....maybe we will get a regional or national commander who will set the right tone and all the grousing we do on the internet may actually mean something.

[jeders]

This isn't an issue of covering the pin, this is an issue of something, anything, sticking through nearly the dead center of the headband into your forehead.  If the hat fits right a pencil eraser is going to be just as uncomfortable.

Remember, the insignia is 1/2" from the brim, not centered on the hat (vertically).

I'm not so into the metal grade I need to hurt myself - I bought a $2 baseball hat from Walmart that matches the uniform color exactly and moved on, sans any grade insignia.

Why not just forget the frogs and bend the posts down. I've seen it done, looks good and doesn't pierce your forehead.

[SSgt Rudin]

Why not just forget the frogs and bend the posts down. I've seen it done, looks good and doesn't pierce your forehead.

Thats what I used to do on my ball caps in the Navy, but it was more to limit the number of people who could steal it to the other e-5's. 

[Eclipse]

Why not just forget the frogs and bend the posts down. I've seen it done, looks good and doesn't pierce your forehead.

Multi-quotes still broken (I'm thinking this is actually an overt setting.)

Someone else suggested the same thing to me, but the idea of having a sharp pointy thing that clost to my forehead does not give me comfort, bent or no.

[davedove]

Someone else suggested the same thing to me, but the idea of having a sharp pointy thing that clost to my forehead does not give me comfort, bent or no.

Which is why I go ahead and sew on the cloth insignia.  Besides, it is supposed to be a field uniform, so the sew on insignia is more appropriate anyway.

[jeders]

Multi-quotes still broken (I'm thinking this is actually an overt setting.)

Someone else suggested the same thing to me, but the idea of having a sharp pointy thing that clost to my forehead does not give me comfort, bent or no.

Duct tape. 

Cover the posts with a couple of small pieces of duct tape or similar material and no more concern.