I have been thinking as of late about the current NCSA's that CAP offeres our cadets.
Then I started to think "What COULD we offer our cadets that we don't already?
So here is the question.
If you designed an NSCA what woulf you make it out to be?
Good question. It is something on which I would need to give more thought, but is a major priority of my regime once my coup is complete.
I would offer no bling what-so-ever... Except for the NCSA ribbon and maybe a coin. No patches or funny hats etc... but it would be the most awsomest NCSA ever... because I thought of it. It would probably involve military small arms and crew served weapons and/or things that explode real good. ;D
Quote from: MIKE on September 19, 2007, 11:06:15 PM
I would offer no bling what-so-ever... Except for the NCSA ribbon and maybe a coin. No patches or funny hats etc... but it would be the most awsomest NCSA ever... because I thought of it. It would probably involve military small arms and crew served weapons and/or things that explode real good. ;D
Mike,
While I also appreciate the "Things that go BIG BOOM in the night" and I also agree about NO BLING, lets get serious for just a minute. Ok not even that long. What would you want to do?
I was thinking of an Boot Camp, NCO - Drill master type of camp.
Couple of people I know of are working on creating a mantracking course for CAP GTMs and GTLs here in TN. Our Group CC is a former Metro Nashville detective, and one of ~100 master mantrackers in the country. He works with a lot of the state agencies (TN State Police, Tenn Bureau of Investigation) and teaches their troopers and agents these skills. I think that would be a neat course to do. Not so much an NCSA, but still.
Personally, if I was back as a cadet, I would want an NCSA where I get to shadow a crew of a C-130 or C-17 or C-5 for a week and fly with them for a week (maybe over to Hawaii, Guam, perhaps Germany, nothing over in the Sandbox though). Maybe a course, as well, where cadets can spend time with the USAF Air Traffic Controllers and get an intro into their operations, maybe get to spend a week at their tech school and then a week at an operational base learning all the different things.
I guess where I'm really going is that there should be more activities where cadets can shadow USAF or other service personnel and learn their jobs, and if it would be something they'd be interested in.
NASA Familiarization Course(s) - NOT another Space Camp!
Cape Kennedy
Houston
Edwards AFB
etc....
Show the value of math, science and engineering degrees in college.
Quote from: SJFedor on September 20, 2007, 01:47:36 AM
I guess where I'm really going is that there should be more activities where cadets can shadow USAF or other service personnel and learn their jobs, and if it would be something they'd be interested in.
I'm not a cadet, but I think shadowing EOD would be super cool...
Quote from: jimmydeanno on September 20, 2007, 12:00:28 PM
I'm not a cadet, but I think shadowing EOD would be super cool...
(http://jcolgan004.googlepages.com/BombBoys.jpg)
Fixed missing image. Here we go ^^^
^pic from above (paste in address line): http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/Bombsquad.jpg
That is GOOD! >:D
Quote from: jimmydeanno on September 20, 2007, 12:29:54 PM
^pic from above (paste in address line): http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/Bombsquad.jpg
That is GOOD! >:D
WIWAC, I did my basic encampment at MCAS Cherry Point. We got to spend a few hours with the base EOD, they're some cool guys. Let us play with their toys and all. Had this really awesome room with all sorts of inert things that used to go boom.
I also drove the bomb robot into some GySgt's truck. He wasn't too thrilled.
Something like http://www.tallahasseecap.org/commcamp/ . It doesn't have to be sponsored by Rangers, we just needed a sponsoring organization and our group/sq CC said we weren't capable of it while Capt Cason said "Let's do it".
Quote from: LeoBurke on September 20, 2007, 03:45:51 AM
NASA Familiarization Course(s) - NOT another Space Camp!
Cape Kennedy
Houston
Edwards AFB
etc....
Show the value of math, science and engineering degrees in college.
Though it ain't been called Cape Kennedy in years... the Cape reverted back to the old 'Cape Canaveral' moniker, but the NASA facility is John F. Kennedy Space Center.
I like it... tell us more! ;D
Aviation Medicine Encampment.
Spend some shadow time with Para jumpers, air evac, Long range air evac (like the C 130's flying guys from Iraq to Ramstein), and in the Civilian world fixed wing and rotor wing air EMS. Because of the way heat effects rotor wing transport on the civilian side it would be a winter encampment.
It's a chance to see that aviation does more than deliver ordnance.
Air EMS!
Life from Above!
Is there a National C/NCO school? One thing I have noticed as a need in CAP is quality C/NCOs helping their officers run the program.
Quote from: flyerthom on October 13, 2007, 05:55:28 PM
Aviation Medicine Encampment.
Air EMS!
Life from Above!
I like that one. We have a very close working relationship with our local Medevac companies and the cadets always enjoy dealing with them. Sometimes I think CAP turnes out more EMS folks than military.....combining EMS and aviation is a natural.
Anyone need the phone number to Flatiron so they can suggest it? LOL
Quote from: floridacyclist on October 15, 2007, 01:02:03 PM
Quote from: flyerthom on October 13, 2007, 05:55:28 PM
Aviation Medicine Encampment.
Air EMS!
Life from Above!
I like that one. We have a very close working relationship with our local Medevac companies and the cadets always enjoy dealing with them. Sometimes I think CAP turnes out more EMS folks than military.....combining EMS and aviation is a natural.
Anyone need the phone number to Flatiron so they can suggest it? LOL
I think it depends on the Senior member influence. In my Squadron, we have a lot of Tuskegee Airmen and pilots, so cadets natuarlly are interested in military aviation
I'd like to see a National Communications activity. Each Wing or Region hosts a week long Comm encampment during the same time and pools Comm resources (equipment and personnel) from each Wing or Region.
There are so many people out there who know more about radios and radio theory than I could possibly learn in a lifetime on my own. Cadets could learn how to set up a base (or mobile) station, what antennas work best (how to build them?) and run the HF nets for a week. Ideally we could even partner with HAMS and get the cadets their licenses.
Most cadets only get exposure to radios at a practice or actual mission, but don't get much into the how or whys. Heck, a lot of cadets have CAP call signs and the only time they've touched a radio was during BCUT and ACUT classes.
Hopefully Seniors would be invited too ;D
Quote from: Psicorp on October 17, 2007, 05:18:05 PM
I'd like to see a National Communications activity. Each Wing or Region hosts a week long Comm encampment during the same time and pools Comm resources (equipment and personnel) from each Wing or Region.
Jamie,
Talk to Lt Col Dave Montgomery. During our meeting in Flint he outlined a week long 'Comm Encampment' that's going to coincide with our regular Basic encampment and RCLS at the Alpena CRTC next year.
Apparently they'll just use the base for billeting and meals, but the training will be off site. It'll be open to cadets and seniors from what he said.
I don't remember all the details, but it did sound exciting. If I wasn't already tagged as PAO for the encampment, I wouldn't mind doing that myself.
FloridaCyclist already ran a week long ES training and communications course. At the end cadets took the FCC ASmateur Radio Technician class license exam. I understand most if notr all cadets passed it plus getting their ACUT card.
Yeah, we covered that further up the thread...including a link.
A second year NFA, that would focus on the post solo part of the PPL.
Quote from: sixgunjoe on November 05, 2007, 06:56:46 AM
A second year NFA, that would focus on the post solo part of the PPL.
Yeah, but having a year inbetween without any recurrency training wouldn't do too well for retainment of knowledge. Perhaps doing a 6 week long NFA that allows the person to go from nothing to private. Lots of $$$ though.
True
Quote from: MIKE on September 19, 2007, 11:06:15 PM
I would offer no bling what-so-ever... Except for the NCSA ribbon and maybe a coin. No patches or funny hats etc... but it would be the most awsomest NCSA ever... because I thought of it. It would probably involve military small arms and crew served weapons and/or things that explode real good. ;D
EOD Tech Academy??? :)
I'd want to start a school similar to NMMA, but include heavy drill and uniform instruction, along with master classes with the Air Force Concert Band.
Free lyres and instrument specific maintenance supplies for all students.
Quote from: MikeTA on January 23, 2008, 04:04:54 AM
I'd want to start a school similar to NMMA, but include heavy drill and uniform instruction, along with master classes with the Air Force Concert Band.
Free lyres and instrument specific maintenance supplies for all students.
So like NHGA with music instead of rifles....
I love the idea of the Air EMS activity, maybe toss in First Responder training with it?
I don't know if any other wings do this but FLWG has career shadowing http://www.flcadet.com/CareerShadowing.aspx (http://www.flcadet.com/CareerShadowing.aspx) I have heard nothing but good things from the cadets who have gone.
Also I think it would be nice if NCSA's we offered at more locations at different time frames, this would allow more cadets and seniors to attend the activity as well as reducing travel cost.
Quote from: SSgt Rudin on January 23, 2008, 04:46:26 AM
Also I think it would be nice if NCSA's we offered at more locations at different time frames, this would allow more cadets and seniors to attend the activity as well as reducing travel cost.
SSgt Rudin,
Take a look at the NHQ NCSA page (http://www.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=6521&audienceID=4), and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
There are over 30 NCSAs in 20 different states from coast to coast, as far north as Wisconsin, and as far south as Maxwell AFB, AL. Prices start as low as low as $175 for a full week.
Some start in late May, some last until mid-August. (One NCSA is off cycle. The Civic Leadership Academy in Washington D.C. starts in late February.)
Travel costs are certainly an important issue. Cadets receive full airfare for Cadet Officer School, but most activities require the cadets (or their wings and units) to cover transportation costs. Transportation costs are one of the reasons the activities are spread so far apart, to maximise the possibility that an activity can be relatively local for most cadets.
Thanks for your thoughts on reducing costs.
Ned Lee
DCP, PCR
I'd like to see a wilderness survival course. Something that includes all of the shelter building, wild edibles, water procurement, minimal supply techniques beyond what might be taught at some of the SAR academies we have now. The Canadian Air Cadets have it as part of their standard training. They learn how to survive, and then get dropped off in the woods alone for a day or two and have to make it on their own(I understand we wouldn't be able to do that, what with leaving cadets w/o SM supervision and all). But still, its a great skill set to have and is a lot of fun. I've taken a few courses myself and love it.
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on January 23, 2008, 05:45:49 AM
I'd like to see a wilderness survival course. Something that includes all of the shelter building, wild edibles, water procurement, minimal supply techniques beyond what might be taught at some of the SAR academies we have now. The Canadian Air Cadets have it as part of their standard training. They learn how to survive, and then get dropped off in the woods alone for a day or two and have to make it on their own(I understand we wouldn't be able to do that, what with leaving cadets w/o SM supervision and all). But still, its a great skill set to have and is a lot of fun. I've taken a few courses myself and love it.
Aren't they trying to start a survival school at an Evergreen facility? Also apparently there's a push to get more people to go to the California cadet survival school. People who took part in it circulated the following to just about every CAP Facebook group.
QuoteGreetings, and Happy New year. You have been contacted because you a member of a facebook group related to Civil Air Patrol. This message pertains to Cadet Survival School (CSS), an annual CAWG activity which will occur again this coming August.
CSS is an activity like no other. Last year's attendees were privileged to participate in a week-long course that stretched both their mental and physical limits. Classes were taught on such subjects as disaster preparation, basic aspects of woodcraft, water confidence, and the "survivor mentality." Students spent a significant amount of time living in the field, and were able to practice rappelling and shooting during the course of the week.
CSS is NOT for the faint of heart. Participants are expected to behave like adults, as self-sufficiency and responsibility are two aspects that the course strives to impart to students. Students make real choices about how they will keep themselves and their team in good condition while surmounting real-world challenges put before them by instructors.
The instructor cadre at CSS is top-flight. Last year, students had the opportunity to learn from individuals with a wide variety of experience in both military and civilian sectors to include: several officers and enlisted members of the USAF (including two pilots and an aircrew member), a civilian government contractor with experience in nuclear force protection, and an EMT.
CSS welcomes students from out of state, as long as all necessary paperwork is taken care of. CSS is looking for motivated, creative cadets to serve as cadet staff next year. All cadet staff members are also first-time attendees; CSS operates differently from encampment. Any cadet interested in serving as staff for CSS in August or attending as a basic should contact any of the following people (who both have facebook):
deleted
Information on Cadet staff and students is as follows:
2.5. Student Staff. To maximize safety and training value, cadets shall not instruct at CSS. Student staff exists to assist with administrative and logistics issues, as well as ensuring good order and discipline among the students.
2.5.1. Senior Ranking Officer (Cadet Commander)
Responsibilities:
-Get the students to the right place at the right time in the right uniform
-Teach survival and leadership from within the students
-Act as a liaison with encampment cadet staff
-Raise awareness about CSS throughout the year
-Be available for planning and execution of the school (no scheduling conflicts)
-Assist the senior staff as required
-Maintain good order and discipline among the students
Desirable Attributes:
-Cadet Staff at encampment
-Advanced cadet officer
-Experience in field training activities such as PJOC, HAWK, NGSAR, etc.
-Able to lead in a stressful, dynamic environment
2.5.2. Team Leader (Flight Commander)
Responsibilities:
-Duties as directed by the SRO and Senior Staff
Desirable Attributes:
-Cadet Officer
-Experience in field training activities
2.5.3. Student (Basic Cadet)
Responsibilities:
-Prepare for CSS by accomplishing all assigned reading
-Prepare for CSS through physical conditioning
-Follow all instructions
-Ensure own safety
Prerequisites to participate:
-C/SSgt or higher
-Completed Encampment
-No physical or mental disabilities that might hinder safe and effective training
-14 years or older prior to start of CSS (waiver-able on a case-by-case basis)
-Basic working knowledge of fieldcraft skills such as:
--Fire craft
--Food/ water procurement
--Shelter making
--Signaling
Quote from: Ned on January 23, 2008, 05:35:41 AM
Quote from: SSgt Rudin on January 23, 2008, 04:46:26 AM
Also I think it would be nice if NCSA's we offered at more locations at different time frames, this would allow more cadets and seniors to attend the activity as well as reducing travel cost.
SSgt Rudin,
Take a look at the NHQ NCSA page (http://www.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=6521&audienceID=4), and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
There are over 30 NCSAs in 20 different states from coast to coast, as far north as Wisconsin, and as far south as Maxwell AFB, AL. Prices start as low as low as $175 for a full week.
Some start in late May, some last until mid-August. (One NCSA is off cycle. The Civic Leadership Academy in Washington D.C. starts in late February.)
Travel costs are certainly an important issue. Cadets receive full airfare for Cadet Officer School, but most activities require the cadets (or their wings and units) to cover transportation costs. Transportation costs are one of the reasons the activities are spread so far apart, to maximise the possibility that an activity can be relatively local for most cadets.
Thanks for your thoughts on reducing costs.
Ned Lee
DCP, PCR
I was talking more along the lines of having the same activity at multiple locations at different times.
IE:
NHGA Westminster, MD: June 1-14
NHGA Edwards AFB: June 15-29
NHGA Maxwell AFB: July 1-14
So on and so forth for all the activities that this would be possible with. Obviously if you want to go to NBB or PJOC your stuck. But is there a reason this ^ is not possible for activities that do not rely on another organization/event?
Quote from: SSgt Rudin on January 23, 2008, 01:47:06 PM
I was talking more along the lines of having the same activity at multiple locations at different times.
IE:
NHGA Westminster, MD: June 1-14
NHGA Edwards AFB: June 15-29
NHGA Maxwell AFB: July 1-14
So on and so forth for all the activities that this would be possible with. Obviously if you want to go to NBB or PJOC your stuck. But is there a reason this ^ is not possible for activities that do not rely on another organization/event?
We already do that for some of the more "fungible" activities like the flight academies and the AF Space Command Familiarization Course (offerred at non-overlapping dates at Patrick, Peterson, and Vandenberg AFBs).
But for most of the other NCSAs, practical reasons make it very, very difficult to offer multiple iterations.
All NCSAs are really run by volunteer members like you and me, and not by the corporate staff at NHQ. And the commitment to serve as an NCSA activity director or staffer is considerable. These hard-working members devote incredable amounts of time and energy to their activities. God Bless 'em.
To use your NHGA example, Lt Col Jett Mayhew is the director of the HGA. She and her crew have created a terrific activity that involves the use of actual USAF Honor Guard instructors for much of the training. Her personal contacts and dedication are critical in maintaining this highly-sought-after activity.
I literally cannot imagine how she could clone the school and put in the hands of others or take it on the road herself without a significant change in the curriculum and "look and feel."
And it is pretty much the same with the remaining activities. Behind each one is a particular group of dedicated officers who already give two weeks of their vacation and family life to support a specific activity.
Again, thank you for your work with cadets and your ideas on how to improve NCSAs.
Ned Lee
DCP, PCR
So if Lt Col Mayhew left the program the activity would fall flat on its face?
That sounds like a problem that needs to get fixed.
Quote from: cnitas on January 23, 2008, 06:15:01 PM
So if Lt Col Mayhew left the program the activity would fall flat on its face?
That sounds like a problem that needs to get fixed.
It's not about her, it's about her crew. She could leave and someone else would take over (she's already trained people for that). Trying to reconstruct that activity somewhere else would be difficult.
How about bringing back the old (before my time) FAA FC? Hold it in OKC and not only include Traffic Controllers, but bring in NTSB investigators and everything else that the FAA does.
I've always wanted to do a national speech and debate academy. The cadets would learn parliamentary (NPDA) style debate, and receive instruction on informative and persuasive speech... Then compete against one another. Actually, my idea is to have Wings send teams to a Region/National competition, but an NCSA would be cool too.
It's something I would have loved when I was a cadet. It fills a gap in our training (not much intensive oral communication training is covered now), and will help cadets immensely in their futures.
Quote from: sjtrupp on January 23, 2008, 06:39:52 PM
It's not about her, it's about her crew. She could leave and someone else would take over (she's already trained people for that). Trying to reconstruct that activity somewhere else would be difficult.
That is not what Ned said...
I believe the NHGA is a great program, and I applaud those involved, but I do not see why we cannot try and get more than 1 rotation.
I agree it would be difficult. But not something that several more dedicated officers could not put together, particularly if they model what has already been done.
Any new activity will be 'difficult' to establish.
Quote from: SSgt Rudin on January 23, 2008, 01:47:06 PM
I was talking more along the lines of having the same activity at multiple locations at different times.
IE:
NHGA Westminster, MD: June 1-14
NHGA Edwards AFB: June 15-29
NHGA Maxwell AFB: July 1-14
So on and so forth for all the activities that this would be possible with. Obviously if you want to go to NBB or PJOC your stuck. But is there a reason this ^ is not possible for activities that do not rely on another organization/event?
I think that having multiple locations and times for each NCSA would be/is a great idea. A few things I notice that may hinder it though:
1) NHQ would need to hire more CP staff to accomodate the substantially increased workload for NCSAs (Go from 30 to 90 NCSAs!)
2) Finding qualified responsible seniors that can make the commitment, every year and ensure continuity between the different locations and directors.
3) Funding I could see being a major roadblock. If you have multiple locations at multiple times for each NCSA (using the example above) you'd need 3X the funding, unless each NCSA became self-funded (participants fees cover 100%). Without that, NHQ would be looking at (with the above example) a need for 300% more NCSA funding.
4) Is there enough demand for NCSAs to warrant multiple locations for them all or would/could increasing the number of locations possibly increase demand for them?
Quote from: cnitas on January 23, 2008, 06:59:42 PM
I believe the NHGA is a great program, and I applaud those involved, but I do not see why we cannot try and get more than 1 rotation.
I agree it would be difficult. But not something that several more dedicated officers could not put together, particularly if they model what has already been done.
Any new activity will be 'difficult' to establish.
I basically concur -- any new activity is indeed difficult to establish.
And pretty much every activity we have now is as a result of several dedicated officers "putting something together."
There is nothing to stop anyone from developing and putting on a cadet activity. After several successful iterations at a local, wing, or regional level, the folks behind an activity can apply to have their activity "go national."
For example, I love the idea of a "speech and debate" kind of activity. It's a great idea.
Now, it's time for someone to put one together at the wing or region level and make it happen. If successful, it could make a great NCSA.
We are not short of great ideas for NCSAs.
We are short of -- to use your terms -- "dedicated officers" putting together a successful activity and making it work.
Mostly because these same dedicated CP professionals are already tasked out as squadron, group, wing, or regional CP staffers and have their hands full with their current jobs. Plus encampments and the existing terrific wing, regional, and national cadet activities.
The National CP crew isn't failing to add to the over 30 NCSAs because they are evil and want to deny cadets an activity. They are already working very, very hard to support our existing activities.
(And for another thread -- if I had spare CP resources, I'd probably try to find a way to help support unit meetings rather than develop new NCSAs. While NCSAs are very important,
90% of what we do or fail to do with the cadet program happens on squadron meeting nights.)
Ned Lee
DCP, PCR
I don't want to further derail the thread, but a few clarifications:
Quote from: jimmydeanno on January 23, 2008, 07:31:07 PM
1) NHQ would need to hire more CP staff to accomodate the substantially increased workload for NCSAs (Go from 30 to 90 NCSAs!)
NHQ clearly needs to hire more CP staff. That would be true even if we reduced the number of NCSAs. But remember, every NCSA is run and staffed by regular volunteer seniors like you and me. The NHQ corporate staff does have some administrative oversight responsibilities, but the lion's share of NCSA work is not done by NHQ in the first place.
Quote
2) Finding qualified responsible seniors that can make the commitment, every year and ensure continuity between the different locations and directors.
True, that.
Quote
3) Funding I could see being a major roadblock. If you have multiple locations at multiple times for each NCSA (using the example above) you'd need 3X the funding, unless each NCSA became self-funded (participants fees cover 100%). Without that, NHQ would be looking at (with the above example) a need for 300% more NCSA funding.
Almost all NCSAs
are self-supporting. Only a very few like COS, IACE, and CLA receive any sort of corporate support. That's why fees are so high for the flight academies and things like NHGA.
Quote
4) Is there enough demand for NCSAs to warrant multiple locations for them all or would/could increasing the number of locations possibly increase demand for them?
Good question. Remember, cadets must have already completed encampment before they may apply for NCSAs, which normally means that cadets are in the second complete year of membership before they can apply.
And many NCSAs have necessary pre-requisites for age, grade, or achievement (IACE, COS, CLA, etc) that further limit the size of the applicant pool.
Last year, some NCSA slots went unfilled. We may already be near saturation on NCSAs given the current number of cadets, and the costs and logistical factors involved.
Ned, I think we are in complete agreement.
I as a CP guy myself find that I am 'used up' at the squadron level. I would love to spend all summer helping at various NCSAs, and/or putting on new activities, but alas I have a job and a family who sometimes want to spend time with me :-\
But this was why I jumped in initially, if there is an NCSA in danger of failing because of a single dedicated member, we need to shift some load because eventually, everyone 'falls out' for some reason.
Quote from: cnitas on January 23, 2008, 08:16:11 PM
but alas I have a job and a family who sometimes want to spend time with me :-\
Don't you hate it when they get in the way :P
Quote from: sjtrupp on January 23, 2008, 06:39:52 PM
How about bringing back the old (before my time) FAA FC? Hold it in OKC and not only include Traffic Controllers, but bring in NTSB investigators and everything else that the FAA does.
NTSB isn't part of the FAA. They're a separare, non-regulatory agency.
But actually, considering what a crunch the FAA says they're in for controllers, that would be a very good 2 week course to hold. Anyone friends w/ the current FAA Administrator?
I think that it should be either a SAR survival school, where you get a rating to stay out longer than 24 hours, or a specialty tracking school to be able to obtain ratings in tracking.
QuoteI'd like to see a wilderness survival course. Something that includes all of the shelter building, wild edibles, water procurement, minimal supply techniques beyond what might be taught at some of the SAR academies we have now
.
HMRS runs what is typically a 4th year returning student course, known as Echo Sqaudron or Special Advancved. In part its designed to prepare students for completion of the Expert Ranger Rating. Regardless of your opinion about the Ranger program aside, it covers those type of requirements that people are looking for in a wilderness survival course. They typically spend most of the 9 days in the field at all times of the day regardless of weather conditions (a little safety factor is applied during lightning)
QuoteSUMMARY OF ECHO COURSE CURRICULUM
NAVIGATION
#610 - TOPOGRAPHICAL MAP INTERPRETATIONS
#611 – LATITUDE AND LONGITUDE
#612 – UNIVERSAL TRANSVERSE MERCATOR (UTM)
#613 – CAP GRID SYSTEM OVERVIEW
#614 – LAND NAVIGATION COMPASS WORK (BOTH NIGHT AND DAY)
#615 – AERONAUTICAL NAVIGATION
#616 – FIELD EXPEDIENT DIRECTION FINDING
#616B – NATURAL DIRECTION DETERMINATION
#616C – TIME DETERMINATION
WOODSMANSHIP
#620 – FOOD PROCUREMENT
#621 – WATER PROCUREMENT
#622 – SWIMMING
#623 – EDIBLES
#624 – CUTTING TOOLS
#625 – FIRE BUILDING
#626 – SHELTER BUILDING
LEADERSHIP AND PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT
#630 – CLASS PREPARATION
MEDICAL AND SAFETY
#640 – INJURY PREVENTION AND FIRST AID
#641 – MAKESHIFT LITTERS AND PATIENT TRANSPORT TECHNIQUES
#642 – FIREARM SAFETY
#650 – EQUIPMENT
#660 - COMMUNICATION
RESCUE
#670 – ROPE WORK
#672 – RAPPELLING
#673 – ROCK CLIMBING
SEARCH
#680 – TRAIL MARKING
#681 – SIGNALING
ADMINISTRATION, HISTORY, ORIENTATIONS, EVALUATIONS, TESTS
#690 – HISTORY AND VISION OF ECHO SQUADRON
#691 – RANGER WRITTEN TEST
#692 – NAVIGATION TEST
FIELD EXERCISE AND PRACTICUMS
#695 – SCENARIOS AND TEAM/SKILL BUILDING COURSES
The web site says Ranger First Class is a prerequisite, but I am sure that an out of stater that is an experienced SAR type, ie GTM1/GTL or GBD could request consideration. If you have questions let me know & I'll see what I can find out (the wife ran the course for quite a number of years)
The Evergreen school was initaly billed as another HMRS exportable training program. Basically HMRS run not at HMRS. Same curriculum, same staff trainnig requirements etc etc. TP wanted to spread Ranger Schools out to all Regions, dont know how that plan or things at Evergreen will play out now that he is no longer in the hot seat. (as a note the current interm commander attended the school this past year and was also seemingly impressed)
mk
The biggestproblem with adding new NCSA is transportation. The old activities relied on USAF airlift support which is no longer available. In the Southeast Region there used to be an exchange program between Wings for males and a second for females. In the exchage cadet from X Wing would be airlifted to Y Wing to visit aerospace activities or in the case of the females visit other squadrons and reside with host families. Sort of a mini IACE.
Now transportation costs limit the location of activities such as FAAOC and others. It might be possible for Wings or Regions to add new activities Florida, Alabama, California for example could add an activity at the NASA operations in those Wings. Probably the various airlines could restart the Stewardess schools. (OK so Stewardess is politically incorrect)
Finances limit the transportation to Blue Beret or HMRS for many cadets. So until USAF finds it has a surplus of C-130's just sitting around, the chances of airlift to new NCSA is rather remote. Where support is lacking, is not the CAP Corporate side, but rather the CAP-USAF side of the house. There are probably many activities that could be restarted, but it would require the National Cadet Committee and HQ CAP-USAF to See what is possible. For example, cadets from Alabama, Mississippi, Florida and Georgia could visit Tyndall AFB to see how the Rescue center operates. FAA Centers throughout the country could operate a mini FAAOC. But to get any activity, the National Cadet Committee on the Corportae side of the house needs to coordinate with the CAP-USAF side to find possible regional or Wing activities. From what I see the National Cadet Committee does very little and appears to be ineffective. Input from the National Cadet Advisory Council would be of help, but again little is done since it only meets once or twice a year.
Quote from: Ned on January 23, 2008, 05:35:41 AM
Travel costs are certainly an important issue. Cadets receive full airfare for Cadet Officer School, but most activities require the cadets (or their wings and units) to cover transportation costs. Transportation costs are one of the reasons the activities are spread so far apart, to maximise the possibility that an activity can be relatively local for most cadets.
We are organizing a Greyhound Buspool to Hawk Mountain this year. For $149 round-trip, you get on Greyhound at a designated time in Tallahassee, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, or points in between and all bus routes converge in Jacksonville with all personnel transferring to the same bus for hte remained of the trip. Coming home is the reverse. It only takes a day to get up or back and you can sleep on the bus. Seems like a decent way to beat the cost of flying (over $500.00 from Tallahassee) while not having to worry about falling asleep at the wheel on the way home.
I think Greyhound is an often-overlooked mode that can offer some real savings over flying or even driving as expensive as gas is getting.
Since my family will be in the middle of our bike ride when it's time for Hawk, we will stop at my father-in-law's house in SW MI, drive back to Hawk in his car or take the bus (cheaper for the 4 of us to just drive), do Hawk, drive back to SW MI, ride our bikes to Oshkosk, do Blue Beret, and then carry on West.
In the scheme of an activity such as HMRS, that can get very gear dependant, more so if you are in a staff type postion, the bus is a very good idea when you are looking at volume and types of gear. Less chance of having to ditch the flamable/explosive type items one may keep in their gerar when riding the bus.
mk
as an update (I cant seem to get into edit)
The other big part of the "Echo" program that people usually stumble on is rope rescue related skills (come on its Hawk Mountain)
So if you are coming from outside PA and are interested in the course it woudl be of benefit to have more than the CAP GTM knowledge of rope work. ie something that meets the NFPA 1670 requirement for operations level training.
(gear and equipemnt, ropes and knots, rappeling, belaying, self rescue, pick off, basic rigging and hauling systems are the skills/areas that come to mind)
mk
I think that the Illinois Comm/Sec program from 2004 (I dont know if they still do it) would be a good NCSA if expanded.
Hmmm, what new NCSA would I make if I could..... assuming no hang-ups about TS clearances an all......
Military Intelligence FC (AIA, DIA, NRO) - One week learning about IMINT, analysis, MASINT, HUMINT, and other cool spy stuff
DARPA - learn about UCAVs, UGVs and other cool stuff that the cadets who decide to join the RM will be using eventually.
Area 51 familiarization course ;D
can't think of any more right now.
It would be expensive, but I could see a First responder or EMT-B "crash" course done in 2-3 weeks.
Its 120 hours in IA for EMT - B
Not sure on FR, in a year we could add EMT - I (85)
Thoughts??
Wilderness First responder would be my vote (as thats the minimum rrecomed proposed under the the new FEMA resource typing for Land Search Teams) and its realitively easy...most bill out at 60-80 hours.
Having taught crash course EMT: bad idea......back in 2002ish it became mandatory for all USAF medical technicains to obtain and maintain NREMT-B cert. We did a number of courses, by the time I was on board they were up to a 3 week class (the rest of the training group in my reserve wing said they were having dismal results with the 2 week), even in the 3 week we were having problems with some people (I'd say 2-3/10 failing either the written or practical on the first try) and these were people that had completed the course at one point in time.
expensive is not an issue....the program we teach thru at HMRS (AAOS/ECSI) offers a FR course at cost of books...so like $65. They have no age restriction on their students, so thats only limited if cadets want certification by NREMT or their state if offered.
mk
FR class done in 2 weeks......Its possible, tough, we would have to limit the classes to 30-40 students.
Couple questions.....
What are the National Registry minimums for the FR?
are ride time and clinicals applicable to the First Responder?
As far as Age limits I cannot find any. HOWEVER... what would be a good age for cadets to start to learn advanced medical curriclum?
I think 16 to 18 would be a good start. Thoughts?
HMRS medic course includes advanced wilderness first aid course (36 hours) plus the extra field sanitation information we include, a "field internship" as part of the 3 day survival hike. All in the 9 day course (or 7 1/2 day..day one starts a 1300 and day 9 is graduation) Given they are long days...usually 10-12 hours of class time.
some states limit certification age to 18...Pa is one of a few that allows FR and EMT at 16. NREMT limits EMT's to 18, no age is in place for FR that I can find. I have not found anything on "clinical" hours for first responders, the NREMT site states a course that meets the DOT curriculum, the DOT curriculum says clinical as required by the state (paraphrase)
mk
I'll get ahold of the local FR class and see what they say about clinical time.
In a perfect world we could bring back the Jet Orientation Course. Two weeks long with one week dedicated to flying in (then) T-33s. Those days are long gone. :::::SIGH:::::
GC
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 20, 2008, 03:32:44 AM
FR class done in 2 weeks......Its possible, tough, we would have to limit the classes to 30-40 students.
Couple questions.....
What are the National Registry minimums for the FR?
are ride time and clinicals applicable to the First Responder?
The standard FR course is 40 hours, that could be done in a week. Say do 5 days of training, 3 days of hands on practice and a day for testing? I did my FR over the course of a month, two hours on Tuesday and Thursday and six hours on Saturday for four weeks.
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 20, 2008, 04:45:47 AM
As far as Age limits I cannot find any. HOWEVER... what would be a good age for cadets to start to learn advanced medical curriclum?
I think 16 to 18 would be a good start. Thoughts?
I think 15, with prior First Aid and CPR certification. At the 16 to 18 range you can start going for EMT. FR is a great way to bridge the gap between First Aid and certrifications that actually require licensing. I think a 15 year old should be able to grasp the course material and be able to competently apply it.
Ok, first responders course....
60 hours of classroom, No clinical or Ride time.
I talked to an instructor of the FR class and he indicated that it was just as rough as the EMT - Basic without worrying about transport.
He also indicated that 2 weeks for the course was pushing the limits of learning, but was possible.
Also you would have to go back to your home state to take the practicals, then the national exam.
We coule set this up is several ways. We would have to limit class size and identify prereq's for the course.
Then.....we know there will be attrition, what do we do with those that "fail" the course through exam failures?
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on September 20, 2007, 01:37:25 AM
I was thinking of an Boot Camp, NCO - Drill master type of camp.
How about a week spent at BMT at Lackland? They could do what real flights do and get an MTI who's between flights to push them through. Might also be good for new MTIs to train.
I wish USAF would identify high demand - low density career fields and offer summer activities in those careers to our cadets at no cost. It may end up yielding a good number of enlisted men and women who are interested specifically in those fields.
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 22, 2008, 04:46:19 AM
Ok, first responders course....
60 hours of classroom, No clinical or Ride time.
I talked to an instructor of the FR class and he indicated that it was just as rough as the EMT - Basic without worrying about transport.
He also indicated that 2 weeks for the course was pushing the limits of learning, but was possible.
Also you would have to go back to your home state to take the practicals, then the national exam.
We coule set this up is several ways. We would have to limit class size and identify prereq's for the course.
Then.....we know there will be attrition, what do we do with those that "fail" the course through exam failures?
Send them home? In a normal class you could tutor them, but there would not be time during an NCSA. If they cannot keep up with the course then why keep them around, you are not doing them any favors... Maybe give them a second chance at the final test, if they fail it twice they fail the course..
Quote from: DC on April 22, 2008, 11:10:14 AM
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 22, 2008, 04:46:19 AM
Ok, first responders course....
60 hours of classroom, No clinical or Ride time.
I talked to an instructor of the FR class and he indicated that it was just as rough as the EMT - Basic without worrying about transport.
He also indicated that 2 weeks for the course was pushing the limits of learning, but was possible.
Also you would have to go back to your home state to take the practicals, then the national exam.
We coule set this up is several ways. We would have to limit class size and identify prereq's for the course.
Then.....we know there will be attrition, what do we do with those that "fail" the course through exam failures?
Send them home? In a normal class you could tutor them, but there would not be time during an NCSA. If they cannot keep up with the course then why keep them around, you are not doing them any favors... Maybe give them a second chance at the final test, if they fail it twice they fail the course..
In my current Basic course you can fail each of the test's only once, get a re-take, if you fail that you are out.
Also there are a maximum of 4 retakes out of 8 tests.
Why are you guys so hardcore about First Responder's courses? CAP, by nature and mission isn't a first response agency. It just isn't what we do. There are agencies that are first responders. Volunteer ambulance corps and volunteer fire brigades come to mind. I think if you want to be first responders, you should join them and make a difference! We have our missions and we need more training for that. We want to make a difference doing air and ground searches.
Now I know you guys will tell me that in the wilderness our ground teams could be the first ones to get to the victims, but tell me... how many missions like that are there a year? What percentage is it of the total missions we go out on? How critical was it for our members to be qualified as first responders on those missions?
I'm sure that when you look at the real statistics you'll realize that it's a skill that 99.99% of members would never get to use in the field. Now don't y'all think it'd be a better use of time and money to teach them something they would use?
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 22, 2008, 02:17:56 PM
Why are you guys so hardcore about First Responder's courses? CAP, by nature and mission isn't a first response agency. It just isn't what we do. There are agencies that are first responders. Volunteer ambulance corps and volunteer fire brigades come to mind. I think if you want to be first responders, you should join them and make a difference! We have our missions and we need more training for that. We want to make a difference doing air and ground searches.
Now I know you guys will tell me that in the wilderness our ground teams could be the first ones to get to the victims, but tell me... how many missions like that are there a year? What percentage is it of the total missions we go out on? How critical was it for our members to be qualified as first responders on those missions?
I'm sure that when you look at the real statistics you'll realize that it's a skill that 99.99% of members would never get to use in the field. Now don't y'all think it'd be a better use of time and money to teach them something they would use?
The point of NCSAs isn't always to directly benefit CAP by training members. It is a cool thing that a cadet that is interested in medicine but can't be an EMT yet can pursue. Around here cadets can't go on REDCAPs anyway, so there is little point in cadets attaining GTM certification, attending NESA or any of it. The purpose of NCSAs is to provide the experience to cadets, not be a more efficient way of achieving ES training. Its about the cadets, plain and simple.
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 22, 2008, 11:19:47 AM
Quote from: DC on April 22, 2008, 11:10:14 AM
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on April 22, 2008, 04:46:19 AM
Ok, first responders course....
60 hours of classroom, No clinical or Ride time.
I talked to an instructor of the FR class and he indicated that it was just as rough as the EMT - Basic without worrying about transport.
He also indicated that 2 weeks for the course was pushing the limits of learning, but was possible.
Also you would have to go back to your home state to take the practicals, then the national exam.
We coule set this up is several ways. We would have to limit class size and identify prereq's for the course.
Then.....we know there will be attrition, what do we do with those that "fail" the course through exam failures?
Send them home? In a normal class you could tutor them, but there would not be time during an NCSA. If they cannot keep up with the course then why keep them around, you are not doing them any favors... Maybe give them a second chance at the final test, if they fail it twice they fail the course..
In my current Basic course you can fail each of the test's only once, get a re-take, if you fail that you are out.
Also there are a maximum of 4 retakes out of 8 tests.
Yeah, but that's EMT-B. FR is not quite a complicated. It's pretty much the same deal, BLS, EMTs just add a few additional skills, and get a lot more practice at it. When I did my FR it was divided up into sections (Airway, CPR, Soft-Tissue Injures, etc) and there was a short quiz at the end of each section, but it was more of a class deal. Then at the end of the course we had a 100 question written test, with a minimum 80% passing grade. We also got homework, the books we worked out of (Brady's First Responder, 9th Edition I think) came with a workbook. After each class we would go home and do the section of the workbook that corresponded with the days course work. Nobody in my class of about 10 had any problem with the test, the lowest grade was like an 85 or something...
FR is a nice qualification. For anyone, especially those (and I think its bigger than 0.01%) that may need it because they are active in land SAR or Disaster relief. NCSA's should be about learning about oppurtunites for cadets. Leave schools that qualifiy you for something or enhance you existing abilites to be their own animal ( ie HMRS, NESA, COS etc etc)
A medical carreer NCSA would be nice; even a military one. Learn a little about the some of the high speed medical stuff out there do some shadowing and ride alongs....aeromedical evac fixed and rotor wing, critical care transport hazmat/rescue medicine, military medicine and what you need to do if thats the path you want to go down in your carreer civilian or military. Honestly San Antonio would be a great place to develop such an activity. You have Lackland AFB, Fort SAM Houston, Brooks City Base and Camp Bullis right there. Wilford Hall/Brooke Army Meidcal center both are level 1 trauma facilities, Lackland has an active reserve fixed wing aerovac program as well as the school for the AF at Brooks City Base, Critical care air transport school is at Brooks as well as most of the Air Force's AD teams including pediatrics are out of Wilford hall. BAMC has one of the premier Burn units as well as a Burn Transport team, FtSam/Camp Bullis runs all of the Armys medic programs plus tri service DMRTI (defense medical rediness institute) there is a very active civilian rotor wing program in the city plus a NG helo unit. (and PJ indoc is there too....could play that tie in as well)
that would be cool.....
mk
Here's my idea:
Start by going out with an Army field artillery battery and shoot their guns.
Then go to an Army Tow Missile Company and fire their stuff live.
Then hop on an AC-130 for a fun filled joy ride live fire.
Then jump on a Navy boat with some 5 inch guns for more live fire.
Maybe join some forward observers on a hill to watch the stuff come down.
And finally, have a BBQ.
Indirect Fire Familiarization Course.
I know I'd love it.
Quote from: sargrunt on April 24, 2008, 04:01:52 PM
Here's my idea:
Start by going out with an Army field artillery battery and shoot their guns.
Then go to an Army Tow Missile Company and fire their stuff live.
Then hop on an AC-130 for a fun filled joy ride live fire.
Then jump on a Navy boat with some 5 inch guns for more live fire.
Maybe join some forward observers on a hill to watch the stuff come down.
And finally, have a BBQ.
Indirect Fire Familiarization Course.
I know I'd love it.
Minus the stuff I striked, I did that with a group of Cadets about 3 years ago! It was Awesome.
When I was at DM the base Liason coordinated for our cadets to sit in on a live fire (might have been GBS though cant remmeber for sure)CSAR type mission demo....mission/situation briefing...then bus ride to Gila Bend AS hike up a really big hill watch the A-10 CAS and the rescue pick off...we missed something in there so via radio he got the A-10 to come in low and fast on a simulated straffing run on the way out...it was pretty cool....
mak
QuoteNow I know you guys will tell me that in the wilderness our ground teams could be the first ones to get to the victims, but tell me... how many missions like that are there a year? What percentage is it of the total missions we go out on? How critical was it for our members to be qualified as first responders on those missions?
Doesn't matter -- under the new national standards we're going to need to have someone on our ground teams to do that sort of stuff.
Quote from: DC on April 22, 2008, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 22, 2008, 02:17:56 PM
Why are you guys so hardcore about First Responder's courses? CAP, by nature and mission isn't a first response agency. It just isn't what we do. There are agencies that are first responders. Volunteer ambulance corps and volunteer fire brigades come to mind. I think if you want to be first responders, you should join them and make a difference! We have our missions and we need more training for that. We want to make a difference doing air and ground searches.
Now I know you guys will tell me that in the wilderness our ground teams could be the first ones to get to the victims, but tell me... how many missions like that are there a year? What percentage is it of the total missions we go out on? How critical was it for our members to be qualified as first responders on those missions?
I'm sure that when you look at the real statistics you'll realize that it's a skill that 99.99% of members would never get to use in the field. Now don't y'all think it'd be a better use of time and money to teach them something they would use?
The point of NCSAs isn't always to directly benefit CAP by training members. It is a cool thing that a cadet that is interested in medicine but can't be an EMT yet can pursue. Around here cadets can't go on REDCAPs anyway, so there is little point in cadets attaining GTM certification, attending NESA or any of it. The purpose of NCSAs is to provide the experience to cadets, not be a more efficient way of achieving ES training. Its about the cadets, plain and simple.
Why is it that you do not believe that CAP is a first response agency? We are sometimes the first on scene of some pretty horrific stuff.
While I agree with you in principle, I have to admit that giving cadets and Officers the tools that are needed to complete and compete on the National SAR level. NIMS will give CAP fits unless CAP finds a way to get the training done.
While CAP will still be able to 'do' Search and rescue, you will find that even with high levels of training, unless you have medical staff on your team, you are a type III or IV team at best. I will look up the specifics and post them later.
Bottom line is that our members need this training.
Quote from: DC on April 22, 2008, 05:22:12 PM
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 22, 2008, 02:17:56 PM
Why are you guys so hardcore about First Responder's courses? CAP, by nature and mission isn't a first response agency. It just isn't what we do. There are agencies that are first responders. Volunteer ambulance corps and volunteer fire brigades come to mind. I think if you want to be first responders, you should join them and make a difference! We have our missions and we need more training for that. We want to make a difference doing air and ground searches.
Now I know you guys will tell me that in the wilderness our ground teams could be the first ones to get to the victims, but tell me... how many missions like that are there a year? What percentage is it of the total missions we go out on? How critical was it for our members to be qualified as first responders on those missions?
I'm sure that when you look at the real statistics you'll realize that it's a skill that 99.99% of members would never get to use in the field. Now don't y'all think it'd be a better use of time and money to teach them something they would use?
The point of NCSAs isn't always to directly benefit CAP by training members. It is a cool thing that a cadet that is interested in medicine but can't be an EMT yet can pursue. Around here cadets can't go on REDCAPs anyway, so there is little point in cadets attaining GTM certification, attending NESA or any of it. The purpose of NCSAs is to provide the experience to cadets, not be a more efficient way of achieving ES training. Its about the cadets, plain and simple.
I'm cool with a medical careers cadet activity. Either civilian or military will do. A week spent with an Aeromedical Evacuation Squadron or at a base hospital would be very useful. I just don't think getting First Responder is a good summer activity. It's too narrow in appeal and application for cadets.
One I would create would be an advanced honor guard encampment. It would last a week and a half and we would train with the Marine Corp silent drill team and the old guard that guarded the tomb of the unknowns. Oh and I would start up the old Airborne school in Indiana and PA.
Quote from: colorguard_rifle on April 25, 2008, 11:08:39 PM
One I would create would be an advanced honor guard encampment. It would last a week and a half and we would train with the Marine Corp silent drill team and the old guard that guarded the tomb of the unknowns. Oh and I would start up the old Airborne school in Indiana and PA.
There is already the Honor Guard Academy, which I believe does train with an Air Force Honor Guard. Usually military NCSAs are Air Force related, Air Force Auxilary and all.
I can see mucho insurance issues with any thing that involves jumping from aircraft...
Hey we did it once we can do it again and I was looking at a joint srvice Honor Guard school that way everyone knows we're out there.
Quote from: colorguard_rifle on April 26, 2008, 01:00:38 AM
Hey we did it once we can do it again and I was looking at a joint srvice Honor Guard school that way everyone knows we're out there.
When though? The '50s, '60s? CAP is a different organization these days, and back then people understood what 'at your own risk' meant, now all people understand is the word 'lawsuit'.
Well just look at the PJOC forms and read the fine fine fine print like I had to use a magnifying class.
I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this but I wouldnt offer another cadet encampment. I would however design a miniature OCS for Officers. Figure a week or two for those SMs comprised of Leadership, Communication, PT, military history, etc.
NO, this wouldnt be SLS or CLC revised.
Class to be taught by RM Officers, NCO's and business execs.
^ Umm... COS? ???
No. Im talking a mini OCS for SENIOR MEMBERS. Not for cadets
What about a Rescue Swimmer/Water Survival Course?
Somewhat a PJ Indoc/USCG Rescue Swimmer intro course? Could be done by either or both services.
Intensive water survival training with rescue techniques (sans fighting in water).
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 27, 2008, 05:59:41 AM
What about a Rescue Swimmer/Water Survival Course?
Somewhat a PJ Indoc/USCG Rescue Swimmer intro course? Could be done by either or both services.
Intensive water survival training with rescue techniques (sans fighting in water).
Well we already have PJOC.....
USCG AST mini course would be fun.....
Jumping on this one late so forgive the backtrack...
Quote from: LeoBurke on September 20, 2007, 03:45:51 AM
NASA Familiarization Course(s) - NOT another Space Camp!
Show the value of math, science and engineering degrees in college.
AFSCFC in Florida?
I can set that up for Houston though. Got some good contacts for: a) JSC mission control; b) JSC astronaut training for space station; c) area contractors; d) NASA Ellington Fld (they got tons of cool/weird research planes).
Quote from: CadetProgramGuy on September 20, 2007, 01:37:25 AM
I was thinking of an Boot Camp, NCO - Drill master type of camp.
We do drillmaster off & on in our wing & I don't think it's that great. I'd rather them go to Lackland & learn from TIs that helped write the book or go to honor guard academy, I'm not that big a fan of the event we do.
Quote from: Cadet Tillett on October 15, 2007, 03:55:27 AM
Is there a National C/NCO school? One thing I have noticed as a need in CAP is quality C/NCOs helping their officers run the program.
A few wings (including mine) have very high quality cadet PME programs. I'd sure be in favor of nationalizing those. That's probably more of what you're looking for. I wouldn't like to further encourage career cadet NCOs.
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 22, 2008, 05:20:10 AM
I wish USAF would identify high demand - low density career fields and offer summer activities in those careers to our cadets at no cost. It may end up yielding a good number of enlisted men and women who are interested specifically in those fields.
That's a pretty good idea in the career shadowing vein. That's worth pushing up. They do something like that with Sr AFROTC. I think it'd be a good addition, with some min reqs similar to IACE.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 27, 2008, 04:31:27 AM
No. Im talking a mini OCS for SENIOR MEMBERS. Not for cadets
That'd be nice, but good luck getting attendance if it isn't required.
One I'm currently working on for Gp level...
I'm about to commission in the TXARNG. I'm in an aviation unit at Ellington Fld (Houston), will be going to Flt School in the fall (Apaches). We have a lot of cool stuff on the field. What I'm working out is a wknd long activity. About 100 cadets, in four groups.
1) USCG Air Wing Houston
- Brief on CG Air Ops & career opportunities
- Ops Center tour, planning/ops brief
- Tour helo
- brief with Rescue Swimmer & check out gear
2) National Guard Apache unit
- Brief Army aviation ops & careers
- Flight planning center
- simulators
- crew chief
- sit in helo/check out weps
3) ANG F16
- Brief ANG Air ops & careers
- crew chief
- pilot
- airframe
- weps
- support jobs
4) NASA
- Brief NASA fixed wing ops/research & careers
- check out cool planes (lots to see)
5) ANG SF
- AF cop jobs
- Air Base Defense Demo
- K9 demo
- Self-defense demo
6) ANG Fire Dept/EMS
- Ops/careers
- gear/tour
7) ARNG Cav Scout Troop
- ops/careers
- gear
- Assault demo
8 ) ANG Predator Center
- Ops/Careers
- flight planning
- airframe tour
Also includes BBQ & volleyball at CG. Billeting on cots in Army bldg. Will have a thank you reception for presenters with CAP aircraft on display. May drop some of above, can add lifelight (air EMS) &/or Houston PD helo. May also be able to work out a C-130 o-ride. Just have to work the details, prob need some help given my nutty schedule. It's on the drawing board though. May try to work this out to coincide with IACE visit to the area.
Feedback appreciated!!
What about Field Training with the Army or Marine Corps. It's something that CAP usually dosen't do and it would give the cadet a chance to get a feel for the Marine Corps or Army.
Quote from: McAllister on August 11, 2008, 04:52:20 PM
What about Field Training with the Army or Marine Corps. It's something that CAP usually dosen't do and it would give the cadet a chance to get a feel for the Marine Corps or Army.
Sounds interesting, but how exactly is it relavant to CAP? All NCSAs in one way or another support AE, ES, or the Air Force based Cadet Program.
Running around with Marines doesn't really do any of that...
I know that they have the Honor Guard Academy but what about a Color Guard Academy?
^ They cover color guard at the NHGA
Quote from: afgeo4 on April 27, 2008, 05:59:41 AM
What about a Rescue Swimmer/Water Survival Course?
Somewhat a PJ Indoc/USCG Rescue Swimmer intro course? Could be done by either or both services.
Intensive water survival training with rescue techniques (sans fighting in water).
That would be truly awesome. It would be nice to give cadets a look into another branch and career field that has gone largely unexamined by Civil Air Patrol.
I for one would love that, considering its involvement with the Coast Guard.
Capt. David Leali set up a Color Guard Academy in Florida Wing several years ago. Could that be the reason Florida Color Guards win National Competition so often?
Quote from: BillB on August 12, 2008, 12:34:19 AM
Capt. David Leali set up a Color Guard Academy in Florida Wing several years ago. Could that be the reason Florida Color Guards win National Competition so often?
Well I would think so.
If they still have it, then why not make it a NCSA?
It would give Cadets the chance to experience something new, and give them insite into other services. I could also help cadets make an informed decision on which service they want to join or to even join a service.
Quote from: CAP006 on August 12, 2008, 01:03:02 AM
Quote from: BillB on August 12, 2008, 12:34:19 AM
Capt. David Leali set up a Color Guard Academy in Florida Wing several years ago. Could that be the reason Florida Color Guards win National Competition so often?
Well I would think so.
If they still have it, then why not make it a NCSA?
Because there is already a Honor/Color Guard NCSA ... which i think is held at the USAF Academy.
HQ has asked us here in Nevada to look into a winter NCSA.....an Air Weapons School Familization Course.
It may be a couple of years down the road...any one intrested in something like this?
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on August 22, 2008, 05:50:32 AM
Because there is already a Honor/Color Guard NCSA ... which i think is held at the USAF Academy.
It is held in Maryland. The cadets are trained by the USAF Honor Guardsmen, who are headquartered at Bolling AFB, MD.
Quote from: CAP006 on August 12, 2008, 01:03:02 AM
Quote from: BillB on August 12, 2008, 12:34:19 AM
Capt. David Leali set up a Color Guard Academy in Florida Wing several years ago. Could that be the reason Florida Color Guards win National Competition so often?
Well I would think so.
If they still have it, then why not make it a NCSA?
FLWG has a Color Guard Academy every year, taught be the previous year's Wing Champions. It is only one weekend, and is usually restricted to a fairly small amount of Color Guards. Color Guards that want to attend have to already be formed, must provide their own equipment, and all of that.
I really don't want think it would be a good NCSA. To make it long enough you would have to add a bunch of filler to the schedule, have to figure it so that individual cadets can attend, have to provide equipment for all of the teams, etc. Really not worth it since NHGA is already established.
Quote from: lordmonar on August 22, 2008, 05:56:32 AM
HQ has asked us here in Nevada to look into a winter NCSA.....an Air Weapons School Familization Course.
It may be a couple of years down the road...any one intrested in something like this?
That sounds completely awesome.
Quote from: DC on August 22, 2008, 01:54:55 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on August 22, 2008, 05:56:32 AM
HQ has asked us here in Nevada to look into a winter NCSA.....an Air Weapons School Familization Course.
It may be a couple of years down the road...any one intrested in something like this?
That sounds completely awesome.
I would be very intrested in that
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 27, 2008, 04:31:27 AM
No. Im talking a mini OCS for SENIOR MEMBERS. Not for cadets
RSC and/or NSC?
If it was a mini OCS for SENIORS, it wouldn't be a National CADET Special Activity would it?
There is No National Color Guard Academy and the Honor Guard Academy is in Virginia if not mistaken.
Quote from: BillB on August 26, 2008, 08:03:04 PM
If it was a mini OCS for SENIORS, it wouldn't be a National CADET Special Activity would it?
There is No National Color Guard Academy and the Honor Guard Academy is in Virginia if not mistaken.
Honor Guard Academy was in Virginia, it is now in Maryland.
Quote from: IceNine on August 11, 2008, 10:06:47 PM
^ They cover color guard at the NHGA
They do not, they cover colors element, which is a portion of Honor Guard. If you sent your color guard to HGA you would have wasted >$2000 because you would loose at CG Comp.
Honor Guard drill movements are completly different from regular drill movements, ergo Honor Guard Colors Element drill movements are different from Color Guard drill movements.
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 27, 2008, 04:31:27 AM
No. Im talking a mini OCS for SENIOR MEMBERS. Not for cadets
Psssst. We're
officers now, or did you not get that memo?
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/flaviojj/lumberg.jpg)
;D :P
Quote from: SJFedor on August 29, 2008, 07:42:02 AM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 27, 2008, 04:31:27 AM
No. Im talking a mini OCS for SENIOR MEMBERS. Not for cadets
Psssst. We're officers now, or did you not get that memo?
;D :P
Ummmm.... no. It was exactly that, a memo, and basically suggested that the term officer be used in external correspondence in an attempt to avoid confusion about exactly what a senior member was. The memo no longer shows up on the NHQ website. So it looks like we are still senior members.
OK i am sorry is this has already been discussed in the 6 pages of messages but I'm feeling lazy and i really don't want to read though all of them...
The NCAC is currently looking at developing a NCSA centered around vertical wind tunnels (indoor skydiving) and a NCSA that you build rockets/robotics. these are looking to be on the westcost. the goal is to bring some of the activities to that side of the country to be fair to everyone. more info can be found in the NCAC minutes at http://www.ncac.us/library.aspx
personally i would like to see the National Military Music Academy brought back
I would like to see an Air Operations/Airport Mgmt academy held either by a civilian airport, Air Force base or a University like Embry Riddle, Dowling College, University of North Dakota or the likes.
There is currently a proposal up before NCAC to allow cadets who attend Military Academy Summer Seminars to recieve NCSA credit. I also plan on proposing that the UND Aerospace Camp be added to the list of activities cadets can recieve NCSA Credit for.
Quote from: rightstuffpilot on October 06, 2008, 12:19:57 AM
There is currently a proposal up before NCAC to allow cadets who attend Military Academy Summer Seminars to recieve NCSA credit. I also plan on proposing that the UND Aerospace Camp be added to the list of activities cadets can recieve NCSA Credit for.
But these aren't activities that CAP cadets can apply for through CAP, so how can they be NCSAs? Why would someone want that credit anyway? The military academies' seminars are created for the academies and an academy bound cadet shouldn't worry about "credit for ncsa" he/she should be worried about getting into the academy of his/her choice.
Now if these academies would create programs for CAP cadets to "sample" academy lives... then it'd be different.
Quote from: SJFedor on August 29, 2008, 07:42:02 AM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on April 27, 2008, 04:31:27 AM
No. Im talking a mini OCS for SENIOR MEMBERS. Not for cadets
Psssst. We're officers now, or did you not get that memo?
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u314/flaviojj/lumberg.jpg)
;D :P
Sorry, that memo was recinded.
Must be with those TPS reports!
Quote from: afgeo4 on October 06, 2008, 03:42:28 AM
Quote from: rightstuffpilot on October 06, 2008, 12:19:57 AM
There is currently a proposal up before NCAC to allow cadets who attend Military Academy Summer Seminars to recieve NCSA credit. I also plan on proposing that the UND Aerospace Camp be added to the list of activities cadets can recieve NCSA Credit for.
But these aren't activities that CAP cadets can apply for through CAP, so how can they be NCSAs? Why would someone want that credit anyway? The military academies' seminars are created for the academies and an academy bound cadet shouldn't worry about "credit for ncsa" he/she should be worried about getting into the academy of his/her choice.
Now if these academies would create programs for CAP cadets to "sample" academy lives... then it'd be different.
Because to get a NEW NCSA, the activity has to be running for several years as a regular activity, then CAP will see if it will be viable for a NCSA.
Quote from: afgeo4 on October 06, 2008, 03:42:28 AM
Quote from: rightstuffpilot on October 06, 2008, 12:19:57 AM
There is currently a proposal up before NCAC to allow cadets who attend Military Academy Summer Seminars to recieve NCSA credit. I also plan on proposing that the UND Aerospace Camp be added to the list of activities cadets can recieve NCSA Credit for.
But these aren't activities that CAP cadets can apply for through CAP, so how can they be NCSAs? Why would someone want that credit anyway? The military academies' seminars are created for the academies and an academy bound cadet shouldn't worry about "credit for ncsa" he/she should be worried about getting into the academy of his/her choice.
Now if these academies would create programs for CAP cadets to "sample" academy lives... then it'd be different.
From
here (http://www.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=6521&audienceID=4):
QuoteAviation Challenge *
EAA Air Academy *
Space Camp *
* Aviation Challenge, EAA's Air Academy, and Space Camp are hosted by other agencies, not CAP. However, cadets who graduate
from these programs are authorized to wear the National Cadet Special Activities ribbon.
Service Academy Summer Seminars? Maybe, maybe not. UND Aerospace Camp? Why not?
Quote from: afgeo4 on October 06, 2008, 03:42:28 AM
Quote from: rightstuffpilot on October 06, 2008, 12:19:57 AM
There is currently a proposal up before NCAC to allow cadets who attend Military Academy Summer Seminars to recieve NCSA credit. I also plan on proposing that the UND Aerospace Camp be added to the list of activities cadets can recieve NCSA Credit for.
But these aren't activities that CAP cadets can apply for through CAP, so how can they be NCSAs? Why would someone want that credit anyway? The military academies' seminars are created for the academies and an academy bound cadet shouldn't worry about "credit for ncsa" he/she should be worried about getting into the academy of his/her choice.
Now if these academies would create programs for CAP cadets to "sample" academy lives... then it'd be different.
From
here (http://www.cap.gov/index.cfm?nodeID=6521&audienceID=4):
QuoteAviation Challenge *
EAA Air Academy *
Space Camp *
* Aviation Challenge, EAA's Air Academy, and Space Camp are hosted by other agencies, not CAP. However, cadets who graduate
from these programs are authorized to wear the National Cadet Special Activities ribbon.
Service Academy Summer Seminars? Maybe, maybe not. UND Aerospace Camp? Why not?
I personally would like to see them restart the old Air Force Academy Survival Course. That was a mainstay NCSA when I was a cadet.
Also, the Illinois Wing Communications School(used to be Comm/Sec) is one of the best and most comprehensive comm schools I have ever seen or heard of. The staff is the best, bar none. It is held each year with the Illinois Wing Encampment(check out the web site) and will only get better. This one is open to seniors as well.