My Army waiver got approved

[Duke Dillio]

I was there in 98-99.  The only two camps left across the river were Greaves and Liberty Bell.  I was assigned to Hovey but attached to Camp Greaves.  I remember making the "fun runs" down several of the roads in the area with minefields on either side.  Great times as I recall.

We lost a team of FISTERS from one of the mech units while I was there.  They drove off a bridge.  Very sad time.

RIP brothers.

BOT, hey SPC Seng, did you get an Airborne option?   

[Stonewall]

Seng.  Congrats brother, so glad you're getting a chance to serve.  I'm telling you, those who haven't will never understand.  Not that it's the be all end all to life, but in a way, it is a right of passage in life.  Whether you're a "spoon", humpin' a machine gun as an infantryman or playing your part of the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" as a US Army Band member; there's just something about serving.  And that goes for all branches and jobs. 

All that said, I still find it interesting that motivated folks like yourself choose such out of the ordinary MOS's to go into.  I mean, you were trying to be an officer at one time in ROTC (am I right?).  But now you want to drive an earth mover of some sort.  Look, I never ever knock any job in the military.  From the grease monkeys on an aircraft carrier to a computer geek sucking in A/C in the middle of the desert, someone has to do every job.  Just curious as to why you didn't choose something more, well, exciting.

Either way, hats off to you. 

"Hooah" will have a whole new meaning, trust me.

[afgeo4]

That's odd... USAF doesn't allow their BMT trainees to put on rank while in training until the last week of training (when they lose "trainee" and become "airmen"). Only grade up to E-3 A1C is allowed in BMT. Anyone enlisted at E-4 gets to put on SrA stripes after completion of tech school. They have to wear 2 stripes until then.

Of course you get paid your proper pay grade the whole time. You just don't wear the rank.

[Hawk200]

That's odd... USAF doesn't allow their BMT trainees to put on rank while in training until the last week of training (when they lose "trainee" and become "airmen"). Only grade up to E-3 A1C is allowed in BMT. Anyone enlisted at E-4 gets to put on SrA stripes after completion of tech school. They have to wear 2 stripes until then.

Of course you get paid your proper pay grade the whole time. You just don't wear the rank.

Nothing really odd about it, it's just the way the Army does it. It was a little surpising to me too as former Air Force, but it doesn't create any problems. Those with the advanced ranks get tasked for leadership positions, just like they do in the Air Force. They're just getting a little more pay than their Air Force brothers and sisters while in schools.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Being a SPC in Basic might just qualify you for Platoon Leader or Squad Leader............

[PhoenixRisen]

Congrats on being able to serve, sir!  I'm in the same position as you were.  I've got a medical condition (neurological) that's listed as a DQ for all services, however, in talking to a friend's father (Navy Neurosurgeon) about it, I've found that it's case-by-case - so I may still have a chance.

Congrats and good luck!

[DNall]

Good luck to you (you're going to need it). 

Yeah, I would definately wait to pin on anything that would draw unnecessary attention to yourself until graduation.   

The local National Guard recruiters are pestering me to join up as an officer.  One recruiter wants me to go to Basic then OCS, the other wants me to accept a direct commission.   I can just imagine what would happen if the D.I. found out at Basic that I was an officer candidate *shudder*.

E-1 to E-3 is no big deal. No one cares, least of all the drill sgts. You're jsut a dumb private that doesn't know anything yet. It doesn't matter in the slightest what we're paying you or why. E-4 is a little different. 99.5% of all E-4s at basic are OCS options. They do have a roster with MOSs on it, but they never look at it. They're just going to assume you're there for OCS, even if you're not & regardless of what you say.

Being an OCS option at basic is a bit harder, but nothing close to what actual OCS is like. OCS sucks all kinds of hell, but it's worth it in the end, in theory, maybe - yeah it sucks a lot. It's completely doable though.

Don't enlist for OCS. There's no benefit to it. You're probably getting some kind of bonus now. There isn't one for OCS. Go to AIT, get your bonus, then decide if you like the guard or not. If you want to do OCS, a class starts every March. It's not competitive, it's basically automatic. You just have to find a bunch of paperwork & pass a PT test. Actually enduring the course is the test, and that's all heart.

The added benefit of going enlisted first is if your unit likes you & you want to stick with engineering then you can get a by name request to fill an officer slot with them. That take a lot of the unknowns out of the equation.

You'll have to check & see if you need a new waiver for the chapter II officer physical. I would think yes, but I don't know & it wouldn't be a big deal with an approved one in hand. You also would need to check the vision reqs for engineer officer. I think color vision would be a req, but again not my field.

If you want some help on what to expect & how to get in shape, PM me.

[RogueLeader]

Being a SPC in Basic might just qualify you for Platoon Leader or Squad Leader............

Nuts, thats why I didn't wabt to pin on. . . .

Seng.  Congrats brother, so glad you're getting a chance to serve.  I'm telling you, those who haven't will never understand.  Not that it's the be all end all to life, but in a way, it is a right of passage in life.  Whether you're a "spoon", humpin' a machine gun as an infantryman or playing your part of the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" as a US Army Band member; there's just something about serving.  And that goes for all branches and jobs. 

All that said, I still find it interesting that motivated folks like yourself choose such out of the ordinary MOS's to go into.  I mean, you were trying to be an officer at one time in ROTC (am I right?).  But now you want to drive an earth mover of some sort.  Look, I never ever knock any job in the military.  From the grease monkeys on an aircraft carrier to a computer geek sucking in A/C in the middle of the desert, someone has to do every job.  Just curious as to why you didn't choose something more, well, exciting.

Either way, hats off to you. 

"Hooah" will have a whole new meaning, trust me.

Roger Sir.

I tyhought about OCS, but not ROTC.  I'll see what it's like and move on.

[DNall]

I tyhought about OCS, but not ROTC.  I'll see what it's like and move on.

You have a degree already, so ROTC is out unless you want to work on a masters. There's also an age cutoff, which I think is 27. If you can go the ROTC route though, it's MUCH MUCH MUCH better (read less painful) than OCS. You also get paid about 1300/mo for your one drill wknd & doing ROTC while in school, versus regular drill pay at E-5 for OCS. Both are good options though. You really do want to look at going officer. The main thing you need is a 110 GT on your ASVAB & be passing your PT test with a little slack.

[mikeylikey]

^ Age is almost always waiverable in SROTC (the oldest Cadet I ever had in ROTC was 36, age will be higher if you are prior enlisted and go ROTC or Green to Gold)  If doing the Simultaneous Membership Program you get your Cadet Stipend as well as your E-5 Pay from your drilling unit.  ASVAB is non factorable for ROTC.  APFT is also a non-factor until your last two years, unless you want a scholarship for all 4 years.  So you either contract 4 year, 3 year or 2 year Scholarship, or enter the 4 year, 3 year, or 2 year non-scholarship program.  Two year Cadets attend "Camp" at Fort Knox before entering the final two years of the program.  That is what I reccomend to those that are going after a Masters Degree.  Go to Fort Knox for 5 weeks, get paid there, come back to Campus contract, go to "Camp" after your Junior Year, and Commission at the end of two years, when most Masters Degree Programs award a degree anyway.  No need to do all 4 years of ROTC, unless you are a Freshman going after your Bachelor Degree.

One big thing though, is ROTC will absolutely cut you if you fail to pass at least one APFT each Academic year, and the one at "Camp" at Fort Lewis after your Junior Year.  I lost two Cadets because they did not PT enough.  I also have lost Cadets at Fort Lewis because they failed Land NAV.  You used to be able to get a waiver for specific events at your Summer Camp, but they did away with waivers in 2002.  You fail there, you either get disenrolled, or your ROTC Battalion Commander requests Brigade to keep you in the program.  Requests are rarely approved. 

As far as ROTC goes, I think it is a much better program than either Federal or State OCS (Nothing against those Commissioned that route, or currently enrolled) but the presentation of material is not "crammed" into weeks, but over a well structured academic program.  It also allows individuals to slowly take in the military lifestyle, instead of just getting it all at once.  It truly is the "citizen-soldier" training system that our military is supposedly based on. 

Finally, with the new BOLC (Basic Officer Leadership Program) ROTC is phase one of the system that develops basic Officership skills, BOLC 2 which brings newly Commissioned Officers together from all sources (ROTC, OCS, West Point, Direct Commission) builds upon basics and develops warrior skills, while BOLC 3 is the Old Officer Basic Courses, which instruct Officers in fundamental and general job specific skills they will be performing.  If I am not mistaken....DNALL will attend BOLC 2 and 3 after OCS eventually.  It really is a good training system the Army has developed.  Also, I think he will attend Warrior Forge at Fort Lewis this summer??  Some State OCS courses combine Candidates together for training in other states in a shorter program of instruction.

Aaron, becoming an Officer is very challenging.  Don't let anyone tell you just sign up, pass this and that, and bravo, your a 2LT.  It all depends on your educational goals the time you can commit, your reserve duties, and of course your family situation.  One major plus about ROTC is if you are a SMP Cadet and in the Guard (you can not be ordered to Active Duty and you are non-delpoyable while in ROTC.  However, if your not SMP, and your in the first two years of ROTC, you can be ordered to AD and deploy. 

I am glad your waiver got approved.  Service in the military is one of the finest things we as citizens can do for our country.  I hope you have an enjoyable experience at Basic and AIT, and make sure you PT your but off before arriving.  The friends and experiences you have during the first 5 months of being in the Service are the most enjoyable (at least to me).

If you truly want to pursue a Commission, and DNALL can tell you this as well, check out the Platoon Leader Forums when you get your AKO account up and running.  Also, you can guest log on to Company Commander forums as well, and check out advice from some Captains.       http://platoonleader.army.mil/

Oh and Fort Sill is awesome hot in the Summer as you know.  They do have a kick but Taco Bell on the Basic Training/AIT side, and a fantastic PX and Commissary on the garrison side.  But you know all this already.  Are you sure you don't want to do something with FA??  Artillery is so much cooler than everything else.  Thats what got me initially, was the "cool factor", plus I liked blowing things up with firecrackers when I was younger.     

[afgeo4]

My best friend, and a former senior member of CAP, just finished FAOBC at Sill. He went the ROTC route for Law School. The Army wouldn't pay for it if he went JAG, but they offered a scholarship if he picked combat arms. Field Arty was his third choice (infantry, then armor were the first two), but he was competing in grades with undergraduates, so he wasn't ranked very high in his ROTC class. He did his summer at Knox after year 1 of law school. Then Ft. Lewis in summer after year two. Went to Korea (Camp Casey) for his "internship" right after Ft. Lewis training. Then FAOBC at Sill and a brief intro class to the Paladin and FAST.

He's with 2nd BCT, 1st Cav now. A battery maintenance officer.

[mikeylikey]

^ Ha....Field Artillery was not even one of my choices.  I choose Adjutant General (being a Business Major), Transpo and Chem.  I got FA back as a branch detail duty for three years and Adjutant General as my real branch which I would have went to after making Captain.  I loved FA so much that I had to get a waiver to stay in FA instead of being forcibly transfered to Adj Gen.  Best move on my part.  Fires, Maneuvers is the best career areas in the Army.  Sure, we need Infantry types, but (and you can ask your Friend) FA is so much more modern and technical.  The FAOBC course is the hardest single Officer Basic Course in the Army.  The failure and recycle rate is very high.  I had no math skills before attending, but now I can add up 3 sets of numbers without a calculator. 

I spent time instructing Fire support at Sill years ago.  The OBC program there (altough for Army Officers) is basically a Marine Corps run program.  I was one of three AD Army Officers on a teaching staff of fourteen Marine Officers.  Plus, it is really cool to have both Army and Marine Lt's sitting next to each other learning the same stuff.  And Marines know how to relax better than their Army counterparts when off duty   

I highly reccomend Combat Arms to anyone thinking about the Army.  (unless your a Doctor or Lawyer, we do need those too). 

[DNall]

Ahh, why all the pressure? You think they want you to be accurate with that stuff or what? 

[mikeylikey]

^ Not accurate, as long as one of our rounds hits somewhere near where it was wanted.  The Marines new Howitzer (M777) actually is capable of self placing, and can coordinate between itself and other guns.  The Army developed the weapon, yet decided to not use it.  Weird.  Would have relieved many soldiers of the need to use any math skills at all.   

[sandman]

Congrats on your enlistment and thank you for serving!

I remember being a SP4 (now just SPC) many years ago......

True meaning of the shield (link)

Still applies today in many ways!

/r

LT

[RogueLeader]

I thought about FA, and the Army is paying a bunch of money for it, but it is not what I want to do.  I got a gob I want that matches my interests.  I get to "play" with the big "toys" in the dirt.  I can't hardly believe that the Army is going to pay me to do it. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Ned]

II get to "play" with the big "toys" in the dirt.  I can't hardly believe that the Army is going to pay me to do it. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Try to remember that when it is 0330 at the wash racks and you are playing with high-pressure hoses in 35-degree weather trying to get one of those big metal toys clean enough to pass an embarkation agricultural inspection conducted by some detail oriented civilian Nazi at the port.

Ahhh, good times . . .

Ned Lee
Former Army Guy

[PHall]

II get to "play" with the big "toys" in the dirt.  I can't hardly believe that the Army is going to pay me to do it. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Try to remember that when it is 0330 at the wash racks and you are playing with high-pressure hoses in 35-degree weather trying to get one of those big metal toys clean enough to pass an embarkation agricultural inspection conducted by some detail oriented civilian Nazi at the port.

Ahhh, good times . . .

Ned Lee
Former Army Guy

Been there, done that. And I'm still waiting for the T-Shirt!

[RogueLeader]

II get to "play" with the big "toys" in the dirt.  I can't hardly believe that the Army is going to pay me to do it. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Try to remember that when it is 0330 at the wash racks and you are playing with high-pressure hoses in 35-degree weather trying to get one of those big metal toys clean enough to pass an embarkation agricultural inspection conducted by some detail oriented civilian Nazi at the port.

Ahhh, good times . . .

Ned Lee
Former Army Guy

Way it goes.  I never said it was going to be easy or all fun and games.

Also timed myself for shipping PT, if I do as well for the Recruiter as I did for myself, I'm good to go.