New Montana Wing Patch

[GroundHawg]

MTWG, with the help of NHQ is set to align our wing patch to modern heraldry standards. It makes me want to throw up, but what is done is done.

[LSThiker]

Perhaps a little heraldry would be nice to understand this patch.  Why four white stars and one yellow star?

Generally speaking, there should be less than three elements.  So you have:  1)  mountains; 2) river; 3) stars; 4) tri-prop

Also, compared to the current patch, which does have historical value, almost anything is better:

[RiverAux]

Not really liking how they have the word Montana in the scroll.  It is so off kilter, but I'm not sure if you could fix it.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

AF heraldry standards insist that subordinate-unit emblems don't parrot existing emblems, like the flag, higher-headquarters insignia, yada yada. I'd go with the one without the triangle. When it's seen, it will be in a CAP context, so it's not like anyone's going to mistake it for, say, the Salvation Army. Knowhatamean?

And RiverAux, your concern can be remedied. I do just that, but I do that stuff for a living.

[LSThiker]

AF heraldry standards insist that subordinate-unit emblems don't parrot existing emblems, like the flag, higher-headquarters insignia, yada yada. I'd go with the one without the triangle.

Interestingly, the Guide to AF Heraldry allows it:

On the other hand, an organization wishing to incorporate on its own emblem, an element common to its parent organization's emblem may do so.

However, AFI 84-105 simply states support organizations may incorporate a common element.  In general, it is assumed that the parent organization's emblem is the immediate higher HQ.  So, it should be incorporated from the region emblem.  For CAP though, I could go either way.

[Flying Pig]

Whats the significance of the 4 white stars and the 1 yellow star?

[lordmonar]

Not in Montana....don't care.

Remember when NVWG redesigned our patch and got similar "I don't like it" comments.

Like the fact that they used the sheild but other then that.....don't care.

[Garp]

Whats the significance of the 4 white stars and the 1 yellow star?

five wings in RMR with MT as gold?

[LSThiker]

five wings in RMR with MT as gold?

then really that should not go onto a wing patch as the significance of the stars represent an echelon higher than MTWG.

Looking at the RMR emblem, it is obvious that the MTWG is barrowing heavily from this design.  As quoted above, you may only incorporate one element from your parent organization.  Here you are using the elements:  1) stars; 2) mountains; 3) tri-prop.  Of course, stars are common in many emblem designs, but it is not just the fact that stars and mountains are used.  When comparing the two emblems, the use of the mountains, stars, and tri-prop are the same for both, which is why the emblem is incorporating more than one element.

[Nolan Teel]

MTWG, with the help of NHQ is set to align our wing patch to modern heraldry standards. It makes me want to throw up, but what is done is done.

I would like to know who you are Ground?  There are only 31 members in MT-012 and I know them all so I'm curious who you are.  Feel free to send me a message if your not comfortable to post on here.  I would love to hear your feedback about this transition.

[GroundHawg]

MTWG, with the help of NHQ is set to align our wing patch to modern heraldry standards. It makes me want to throw up, but what is done is done.

I would like to know who you are Ground?  There are only 31 members in MT-012 and I know them all so I'm curious who you are.  Feel free to send me a message if your not comfortable to post on here.  I would love to hear your feedback about this transition.

I will send you an email!
I love our wing patch as it is, but I know how things are as far as the new heraldry push from NHQ.

[A.Member]

I like the second without the tirangle.  Both are solid designs but as mentioned by others, including heraldry would provide more validation/context.

[Garp]

MTWG, with the help of NHQ is set to align our wing patch to modern heraldry standards. It makes me want to throw up, but what is done is done.

I would like to know who you are Ground?  There are only 31 members in MT-012 and I know them all so I'm curious who you are.  Feel free to send me a message if your not comfortable to post on here.  I would love to hear your feedback about this transition.

I will send you an email!
I love our wing patch as it is, but I know how things are as far as the new heraldry push from NHQ.

Actually, the slides from the NUC meeting indicated that NHQ doesn't encourage changes to current Wing patches.  So, not sure there is a "push" from NHQ. 

[ColonelJack]

MTWG, with the help of NHQ is set to align our wing patch to modern heraldry standards. It makes me want to throw up, but what is done is done.

I would like to know who you are Ground?  There are only 31 members in MT-012 and I know them all so I'm curious who you are.  Feel free to send me a message if your not comfortable to post on here.  I would love to hear your feedback about this transition.

I will send you an email!
I love our wing patch as it is, but I know how things are as far as the new heraldry push from NHQ.

Actually, the slides from the NUC meeting indicated that NHQ doesn't encourage changes to current Wing patches.  So, not sure there is a "push" from NHQ.

I seem to recall something along the lines of "Does your wing have the money to purchase the entire current Vanguard stock of patches?" if you're going to change a wing patch.  I may be wrong, however...but Vanguard isn't going to take a bath on old wing patches.  Not good business.

Jack

[LSThiker]

Correct. If you design a new wing emblem, then the wing will be required to purchase the remaining stock.

Now I would be curious to know if Vanguard would just keep selling current stock until it runs out. Then as a replacement, instead of ordering more patches, vanguard orders the new design and you have a phase-in timeline.

However, NHQ is not pushing any wings to design any new patches. There is no requirement nor any pressure to do that. This is only if the wing wants too.

[RiverAux]

Who made that deal?  Has CAP agreed to buy out the stock of any patch or other uniform item that it changes?  Guaranteed profit - gotta love that. 

[Eclipse]

I can concur this is what happened to my wing a few years ago.  The question being, is VG asking the
wing how many to make and when to re-manufacture them?  Because if they aren't, then its a VG problem, AFAIC.

As to the above insignia, it needs to be run by whoever did RMR's to get the scrolls done properly - so tired
of otherwise decent insignia left "unfinished" because they were done in Paint and the artist doesn't understand
how to shape text properly.

[lordmonar]

MTWG, with the help of NHQ is set to align our wing patch to modern heraldry standards. It makes me want to throw up, but what is done is done.

I would like to know who you are Ground?  There are only 31 members in MT-012 and I know them all so I'm curious who you are.  Feel free to send me a message if your not comfortable to post on here.  I would love to hear your feedback about this transition.

I will send you an email!
I love our wing patch as it is, but I know how things are as far as the new heraldry push from NHQ.

Actually, the slides from the NUC meeting indicated that NHQ doesn't encourage changes to current Wing patches.  So, not sure there is a "push" from NHQ.

I seem to recall something along the lines of "Does your wing have the money to purchase the entire current Vanguard stock of patches?" if you're going to change a wing patch.  I may be wrong, however...but Vanguard isn't going to take a bath on old wing patches.  Not good business.

Jack

I was at the Uniform Brief...and that was the stated policy....before NHQ authorities a wing patch change the wing must buy up the existing stock.

[Eclipse]

I was at the Uniform Brief...and that was the stated policy....before NHQ authorities a wing patch change the wing must buy up the existing stock.

Considering Wing patches are no longer required, VG should discontinue supplying them and let their inventory run out.

Those wings that want to require them can source them locally, most likely cheaper and with better quality, but
regardless with the ability to control inventory / reorder levels and change at the will of the CC.

There are vendors now that can create patches at very low quantities, so no issues with sourcing.

[lordmonar]

That's a good idea