So, can anyone answer why no military ribbons on CAP distinctive uniforms?

[bflynn]

How does wearing a decoration from an unrelated service make you a happier volunteer? 

Because it matters to me. 

Probably not enough to quit over, but definately enough not to wear that uniform over.

[Eclipse]

Did you really just tell a volunteer to quit?  What would your CO think of that?

Can't speak for his current one, but I can tell you what his recently former one would say.

"If the issue of not being allowed to wear decorations from another service on your uniform is causing you this much angst, then perhaps
you should take some time and consider if you really understand what CAP is about, and whether it is right for you..."

Also, in regards to your comment about people's responses to your question(s), this topic has been beat to death in several threads, you should have spent some time in the forums and added to those conversations (or not if they are locked).  It's frustrating when new members
come here to "tell us a question" about something which has no answer, is a matter of opinion, and has been asked / answered twelve times over. 

Then, when the response is not "light the torches and storm the gates", the response is we aren't receptive to "new ideas", etc.

[bflynn]

the response is we aren't receptive to "new ideas", etc.

Yes, well that is a part of the CAP culture.

It's ok, I'll wear the golf shirt or no ribbons at all if I wear my aviator shirt.  I'll just be a little less energetic and CAP will get a little less effort from me...

[lordmonar]

. For some, due to medical reasons it may not be an option. That leaves only two choices.

... quit over the issue.

Get fit or get out then....I've been trying, but it's not working.  If CAP only wants 180 lb clean cut guys, there goes 90% of my squadron....

Did you really just tell a volunteer to quit?  What would your CO think of that?

I would think my CO would support me in up holding the CAP's Core Values and CAP regulations.

As Eclipse said....volunteer does not mean do what ever you feel like doing.

To answer your quesiton........when the introduced the aviator shirt, from the USAF's point of view it is civian clothing...so no military rank, badges or ribbons.  The USAF has control over our uniforms....all of them.  They don't lord it over us....but they do let their displesure known........AKA the CSU.

CAP wants everyone.  Hence the mutiple uniform options.

If you don't want to follow the rules and regulations....then as a volunteer you are free to leave.

[abdsp51]

Does wearing AD decs in CAP make one better probably not.  But for me if i hose to wear my AD stuuf it's a sense of accimplishment.  I have my CAP ribbons I can wear in conjunction with my AD stuff.  Will I wear both probably not, unless it's mess dress but I dont see that occasion happening for awhile.  For me it comes down to cost, its not worth the cost to wear both.

[davidsinn]

But for me if i hose to wear my AD stuuf it's a sense of accimplishment.

So I should get to wear my Silver Chicken on my CAP uniform then, right? I have a huge sense of accomplishment in earning that considering the hurdles I had to get past in addition to the normal requirements.

I think people should wear the awards that go with the current environment. You're wearing a CAP uniform so wear CAP awards. You wear an AD uniform then wear AD awards. I'm an Eagle Scout, I'll only wear that award in the appropriate venue.

[coudano]

. For some, due to medical reasons it may not be an option. That leaves only two choices.

... quit over the issue.

Get fit or get out then....I've been trying, but it's not working.  If CAP only wants 180 lb clean cut guys, there goes 90% of my squadron....

Did you really just tell a volunteer to quit?  What would your CO think of that?

I'd tell a volunteer who was unable or unwilling to contribute to our here and now mission because of heartburn over some bling candy,  that their time and energy might be better spent in other pursuits.

CAP is not about showing off the awesome stuff you have done so people (including ones self) can think you are cool.

It's about promoting airpower, mentoring young adults, and providing a resource to meet emergencies at the local, state, and national level.

Eye on the ball.

[a2capt]

It's ok, I'll wear the golf shirt or no ribbons at all if I wear my aviator shirt.  I'll just be a little less energetic and CAP will get a little less effort from me...

I can just imagine a review board, "I'd do more if I could wear ribbons"..


Me, the certificate on the wall is great, the thank you from the cadet that looks forward to seeing their testing officer, or their coach, advisor, and driver for those whole Saturday Color Guard practices, the member that came back from a SAREX with a rating and was grateful for the advice given prior to, and help getting it all entered during and afterwards to earn a rating and be able to show it.


Best of all, because I've made a lot of friends in CAP, and we all stick together through thick or thin, and make it happen.

[bflynn]

I'd tell a volunteer who was unable or unwilling to contribute to our here and now mission because of heartburn over some bling candy,  that their time and energy might be better spent in other pursuits.

CAP is not about showing off the awesome stuff you have done so people (including ones self) can think you are cool.

It's about promoting airpower, mentoring young adults, and providing a resource to meet emergencies at the local, state, and national level.

You are correct, it isn't about medals and ribbons.  Which is why I've already said I've reached my conclusion that I'll wear a golf shirt or no ribbons at all.  But assuming that's true, I do wonder about the amount of hot emotion here over my question.

My reason for joining was to serve my community.  If I leave, it will be because I've lost hope that CAP can do that effectively. 

We're all volunteers.  Part of all of our mission is to keep all volunteers engaged and energized.  Can't say this discussion has done that for me.

[abdsp51]

But for me if i hose to wear my AD stuuf it's a sense of accimplishment.

So I should get to wear my Silver Chicken on my CAP uniform then, right? I have a huge sense of accomplishment in earning that considering the hurdles I had to get past in addition to the normal requirements.

I think people should wear the awards that go with the current environment. You're wearing a CAP uniform so wear CAP awards. You wear an AD uniform then wear AD awards. I'm an Eagle Scout, I'll only wear that award in the appropriate venue.

Is it authorized for wear?  If you saw my post it stated if I chose too and the signifigance behind that choice.  I have CAP ribbons to wear and those are what I will wear.  I wouldnt knock anyone for choosing to wear their AD stuff is they chose to. 

[Eclipse]

You are correct, it isn't about medals and ribbons.  Which is why I've already said I've reached my conclusion that I'll wear a golf shirt or no ribbons at all.  But assuming that's true, I do wonder about the amount of hot emotion here over my question.

You're going to "take a stand" by adjusting your uniform choice based on this, but you wonder about the "emotion"?

You can't have it both ways, either you care or you don't.  If you don't, wear your CAP ribbons, don't bring it up to other members, and move on.

[bflynn]

If you adjust your thinking back to "he doesn't really care much", then go back and re-read this thread with that in mind, I think you'll get an entirely different picture that you appear to have.  This isn't about me whining about not being able to wear military awards on a CAP uniform...I was curious about the reason for it and people have gotten off onto an entirely different tangent.

Do I care?  Sure, just enough to admit that yes, I'd like to have my military accomplishments shown.  But that isn't permitted for undefined reasons, so I'll just go on.  It's a very minor disappointment.  But the attitudes I've seen in this thread are far, far more troubling to me.

[lordmonar]

I'd tell a volunteer who was unable or unwilling to contribute to our here and now mission because of heartburn over some bling candy,  that their time and energy might be better spent in other pursuits.

CAP is not about showing off the awesome stuff you have done so people (including ones self) can think you are cool.

It's about promoting airpower, mentoring young adults, and providing a resource to meet emergencies at the local, state, and national level.

You are correct, it isn't about medals and ribbons.  Which is why I've already said I've reached my conclusion that I'll wear a golf shirt or no ribbons at all.  But assuming that's true, I do wonder about the amount of hot emotion here over my question.

My reason for joining was to serve my community.  If I leave, it will be because I've lost hope that CAP can do that effectively. 

We're all volunteers.  Part of all of our mission is to keep all volunteers engaged and energized.  Can't say this discussion has done that for me.

It's not your question so much....I agree that we should be allowed to wear the military ribbons and badges....but we can't.  From that point it is simply supporting the organsisation and following the rules.

[Ned]

One of the small ironies of working on various committees at the National level is this kind of thing.

Some of us have worked VERY hard to provide professional-appearing uniforms for members not currently qualified to wear the USAF-style uniforms.

As Bob pointed out earlier, for most of our history, the only distinctive corporate uniform was the blazer.  And no ribbons or devices of any kind are worn on the blazer (except for grade on the nametag.)  Today, most folks wearing the blazer are wearing the aviator shirt unifom beneath (not strictly kosher, but works for all practical purposes.)  But properly and historically, the blazer is worn with a plain white shirt / blouse.  Or even a white turtleneck.

It was only with the advent of the aviator shirt uniform that we were able to find a way to allow seniors to wear shoulder grade, badges, devices, and CAP ribbons.  It was a huge step forward, and one well-deserved by our volunteers who could now wear their earned CAP bling on a decent-looking non-USAF style uniform.

That was a Good Thing and a Great Victory.

Like anything else dealing with CAP uniforms, the "CAP ribbons only" thing was a compromise.  If we had not compromised, we would still be in blazers and polos only.

And I fully understand that the nature of compromise is that no one is truly happy because by definition, no one got the full extent of what they wanted.

I was just hoping that the discussion would be about how great it was that we could wear CAP ribbons on a corporate uniform rather than how unfair it is that we cannot wear non-CAP ribbons when the USAF style uniform permits them.

Sigh.

[bflynn]

Apparently some read what they want to read.

It was a compromise...ok, that makes sense.  Do you happen to remember the reasons people were opposed to military awards being worn?  I just find it not making sense and the only background I have for it comes from experiences with people who are anti-military, which I'm sure is not the case here.

No, we're not the military, but I know awards from other branches are authorized for wear in different services.  That would seem to be precedent.  It's not like I want to wear my dolphins over CAP wings (when I get my form 5 done)

[a2capt]

If I went out on a limb ..  I might say it has to do with the part about military awards not being worn on civilian clothes, at least from the Air Force's viewpoint, because we are under that influence. That we are a civilian organization with Air Force structure, and again see the first part.

What does your branch of service say about wearing those awards on anything other than the uniform they go on?

The Air Force may or may not control the Corporate uniform, but again, the Air Force says no military ribbons on civilian attire, military, not just Air Force, but you say you're not or never have been in the Air Force, but this organization IS related to the Air Force. So ..

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The USAF has control over our uniforms....all of them.  They don't lord it over us....but they do let their displesure known........AKA the CSU.

As has been postulated many times, there is no proof that the AF had a downer on the CSU.  If that were the case, they would have kiboshed it from the getgo.  We were never really given a concrete reason on that whole mess...probably the worst-handled uniform issue in CAP in my memory (the berry boards don't count because they were imposed on us).

It's ok, I'll wear the golf shirt or no ribbons at all if I wear my aviator shirt.  I'll just be a little less energetic and CAP will get a little less effort from me...

I certainly hope you didn't take that attitude in the Navy.  I would question why you would continue to Come And Pay in an organisation that has rules so distressing to you.  I was really, really ticked off when the CSU was killed but after 1 January of this year, it became a "suck it up and get on with things" issue.

What you see in my sig line is my ribbon rack that I wear in both AF and G/W orders of dress.  I have others that I could potentially wear, but I don't.  I'm not trying to make a statement by doing that, I just prefer the K.I.S.S. model (and I'm not talking about Gene Simmons).  The last award I got was my CommComm...several years ago, unless you count another clasp to my RSR.

As others here know quite well  , I will be the first one to say that I think the grey/white uniform sucks rocks (and the blazer is even worse), and that I believe CAP's idea to the "distinctiveness" non-issue is to turn everything grey.  It is colourless and would be much better with a blue airline-type shirt as I see it, but NHQ didn't ask me. 

I will also be the first one to say that it is worlds better than the previous grey/white setup.  I knew so many people in CAP who were rightly distressed that they could not wear their CAP ribbons or rank (other than on the black nameplate) that they were understandably over the moon when the white shirt with epaulettes was authorised.

I also know of a lot of long-serving CAP members who have a considerable ribbon rack and do not wear it on the white shirt, unless they're "dressing up," i.e., with the long-sleeved shirt and tie.

I personally don't wear my speciality badges on either the AF blue or the white shirt.  Those stay on my AF service dress.

When we had the CSU we couldn't wear military ribbons on that either.

The only way I could ever see any kind of military ribbons on the G/W would be completely non-Air Force ones (Army, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard)...and that's really stretching it.

[coudano]

You are correct, it isn't about medals and ribbons.  Which is why I've already said I've reached my conclusion that I'll wear a golf shirt or no ribbons at all.  But assuming that's true, I do wonder about the amount of hot emotion here over my question.

I wear the golf shirt or the white shirt without ribbons only, as my primary CAP duty uniform.
No big deal.

I've only been in my CAP blues once in the last...   7(?) years.  And that was service dress.  So I wore my ribbons.  I wouldn't wear any ribbons at all on the blues shirt(only) either, just because I would only wear ribbons on the coat anyway.

I wouldn't wear my military stuff on my CAP uniform, because I simply feel they don't belong there.  That's just my personal opinion.  My CAP ribbons alone were sufficient for my CAP uniform when I was a CAP member before joining the military.  They are still sufficient for my CAP uniform after joining the military as well.  From my view, your accomplishments in one are unrelated to your accomplishments in the other; so your bling from one doesn't belong on the other.  This is a two way street.

[lordmonar]

The USAF has control over our uniforms....all of them.  They don't lord it over us....but they do let their displesure known........AKA the CSU.

As has been postulated many times, there is no proof that the AF had a downer on the CSU.  If that were the case, they would have kiboshed it from the getgo.  We were never really given a concrete reason on that whole mess...probably the worst-handled uniform issue in CAP in my memory (the berry boards don't count because they were imposed on us).

When the CSU first came out....the USAF "asked" that we make some changes to it.  Then out of the blue the NEC canned the CSU all together.

Now we are all members of CAP and represent a good cross section of the membership.....but did anyone else hear from a NB or NEC member that they did not like the CSU?  While some did not like it.....there was certainly a good number of our members who did. 

No.....I beleive the USAF did not like it from the get go....but were not willing to get into a urinary olympics with the former National Commander over.....so the......wait for it......compromised and then brought it up again when we got a new commander.

[Майор Хаткевич]

What I said:

The solution? Get "fit/clean shaven" for the Air Force uniform. For some, due to medical reasons it may not be an option. That leaves only two choices. Earn CAP decorations that will tell others what you can and have done in CAP, or quit over the issue.

What you chose to quote.

. For some, due to medical reasons it may not be an option. That leaves only two choices.
... quit over the issue.

Care to quote the meat of a message instead of some gerrymandered perversion of the thought?

Get fit or get out then....I've been trying, but it's not working.  If CAP only wants 180 lb clean cut guys, there goes 90% of my squadron....

Did you really just tell a volunteer to quit?  What would your CO think of that?

I guess I'll restate it for you: Earn CAP decorations that will tell others what you can and have done in CAP.

But as for my Commander? I can't speak for him, but I'm about 98 1/2% sure he'd find a concern like this, above all others, to be quite silly.