Im sorry

[Flying Pig]

Yes, Im sorry to do this, but I am posting a uniform thread.

Can we PLEASE get away from wearing the grey slacks with the blue polo shirt and maybe go to khaki like the VSAF program?  Im not a big fashion guy, but these grey slacks need to go.  I think I got asked 5 times today if the nursing home knew I was gone.  NOBODY wears grey slacks anymore.  I cant hardly even find them at the store.

And really, Im moderately young and exceptionally good looking.  Seriously.....it looks nasty.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Black, Tan, Brown, w/e looks ten times better than gray.

[Flying Pig]

OK, so its not just me?  Im thinking tan because its pretty much become industry standard in the LE/EMS community, and its a cooler color instead a dark.  Especially when wearing it in the summer. 

[JC004]

Pre-thread apology doesn't count!  Off with your head!   

[Eclipse]

So looking like Best Buy employees is somehow "better"?

[JC004]

So looking like Best Buy employees is somehow "better"?

Absolutely.  I've always wanted to do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkkXCF8ZVc

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Count me in with the anti-grey brigade.

I have enough grey in my hair.

I accept, even though I profoundly disagree with, National being so scared of blue for fear of ticking off the AF...but I have never understood, why grey?

[a2capt]

So looking like Best Buy employees is somehow "better"?

Absolutely.  I've always wanted to do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkkXCF8ZVc

Except you got beat by a couple of weeks at least... 
Some other thread that got whacked off, I posted this thing. There was a comment about the first time a DVD was probably sold without a service contract.

I, too- despise the grays. What, was today the first time you tried that combination?
I don't have issues with an alternate uniform, just that un-uniform combination because you can't just buy the same thing as the next guy. There is no standard.

[JC004]

So looking like Best Buy employees is somehow "better"?

Absolutely.  I've always wanted to do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkkXCF8ZVc

Except you got beat by a couple of weeks at least... 
Some other thread that got whacked off, I posted this thing. There was a comment about the first time a DVD was probably sold without a service contract.

I, too- despise the grays. What, was today the first time you tried that combination?
I don't have issues with an alternate uniform, just that un-uniform combination because you can't just buy the same thing as the next guy. There is no standard.

You aren't allowed to steal my ideas in advance.  Do not make me send the Triangle Thingy to you.

[flyboy53]

Gee, someone with common sense?.....especially since the VSAF uniform and Air Force standard for the same type of uniform khaki pants.

[Trung Si Ma]

I'll go one step farther - specify the manufacturer(Dockers?) and style (pleated or non-pleated).  If the golf shirt continues to be the predominant "uniform" let's make it uniform.

I'll even give Vanguard a couple of bucks extra if it comes to that.

[vmstan]

I don't really have a problem with the grays, but I would probably prefer khaki.

[Custer]

I don't have issues with an alternate uniform, just that un-uniform combination because you can't just buy the same thing as the next guy. There is no standard.

One state - Indiana I think (though I could be wrong there) Standardized these http://www.bdu.com/F520138020.html as what to wear with the polo shirt.  standard color, looks good, and functional.  Makes it somewhat like the operational polo shirt uniform used by the CGA.  Its what I'll be using.

I was hesitant to say this earlier, but its been my observation in MY end of California that a lot of members wear Khaki pants with the polo shirt uniform anyway.  I really expected that to be in the Wing 39-1 supplement, it was so widespread.  And we have Wing headquarters right down the street from here.

Still though - now what do you do with the blazer & aviator shirt?  The pants requirement for those is still gray, but a tighter definition, my new gray BDU pants wont work for those.  At least with the white shirt you can still wear blue pants for another 18 months  My guess is that some well meaning person at Wing figured we all had gray pants already for use with the Blazer so they were being economical by just saying use them for the other two uniforms too.  But the gray pants I have for my blazer outfit are dress up type and are not something that would hold up in field duty.

[Custer]

So looking like Best Buy employees is somehow "better"?

Best Buy, Petco, Wal-Mart & I think Target.  I work part time at a Staples and the people doing our store redesign are wearing blue polos over Khaki, its a very common retail uniform, the other one being red over black.

[davidsinn]

So looking like Best Buy employees is somehow "better"?

Best Buy, Petco, Wal-Mart & I think Target.  I work part time at a Staples and the people doing our store redesign are wearing blue polos over Khaki, its a very common retail uniform, the other one being red over black.

I got mistaken for a walmart employee once while I was in my freaking BBDU. It doesn't matter what you wear there are idiots everywhere that will mistake you for something else.

[vmstan]

One state - Indiana I think (though I could be wrong there) Standardized these http://www.bdu.com/F520138020.html as what to wear with the polo shirt.  standard color, looks good, and functional.  Makes it somewhat like the operational polo shirt uniform used by the CGA.  Its what I'll be using.

Those look a lot nicer and more functional than the pair I bought at Kohls, and cheaper too.

[cap235629]

I'll go one step farther - specify the manufacturer(Dockers?) and style (pleated or non-pleated).  If the golf shirt continues to be the predominant "uniform" let's make it uniform.

I'll even give Vanguard a couple of bucks extra if it comes to that.

Good luck in finding dockers with a waist larger than 44 inches

[jimmydeanno]

The polo came out after the blazer/aviator combo.  They probably selected grey because everyone who wore the blazer/aviator already had grey pants.  We (universal, we) complain all the time that new uniform items are implemented without consideration of cost to the member.  Seems like it was a perfect choice to keep the expense of the uniform down.

As for finding grey slacks, I've never had a problem.  I just go to JCPenny or Kohls or Sears or Macy's and pick up a set in the suit section.  $30 and I'm out.  I can also wear them with other stuff.

[cap235629]

The polo came out after the blazer/aviator combo.  They probably selected grey because everyone who wore the blazer/aviator already had grey pants.  We (universal, we) complain all the time that new uniform items are implemented without consideration of cost to the member.  Seems like it was a perfect choice to keep the expense of the uniform down.

As for finding grey slacks, I've never had a problem.  I just go to JCPenny or Kohls or Sears or Macy's and pick up a set in the suit section.  $30 and I'm out.  I can also wear them with other stuff.

don't forget wally world.

They even have sizes that fit us undesirable, disgusting, torture on the eyes, slovenly, worthless, lazy, embarrassing, ignorant, stupid, ugly and useless fat and fuzzies.

[bosshawk]

While I normally don't participate in uniform posts, let me jog PCR members memories: the Region CC put out an email prior to the Region Conference recently, to the effect that polo shirt and either gray or khaki pants were acceptable.   ??

Also, COSTCO usually stocks perfectly acceptable gray wash pants: my favorite haberdashery.

[Eclipse]

The polo came out after the blazer/aviator combo.  They probably selected grey because everyone who wore the blazer/aviator already had grey pants.  We (universal, we) complain all the time that new uniform items are implemented without consideration of cost to the member.  Seems like it was a perfect choice to keep the expense of the uniform down.

As for finding grey slacks, I've never had a problem.  I just go to JCPenny or Kohls or Sears or Macy's and pick up a set in the suit section.  $30 and I'm out.  I can also wear them with other stuff.

Yep - the gray looks sharp and distinctive.

They stay.

Next problem.

[a2capt]

It's not the problem of availability with the gray pants. It's anything but that.

You get them here, he gets them there, Savoir-Faire gets them everywhere!

Some have adopted tactical versions, some tweed, some Dockers, some Dickies. There's no standard. 39-1 even tries to put a standard to it, and for all we know it was probably written by people who used to shop in the Sears, Penny's and Monkey Wards catalogs.

[Eclipse]

Not like that would change with Khaki's - there's plenty of interpretation of that color, and unless you restrict purchase to Vanguard, many who need those pants the most will not be able to get them in their size if you specify one commercial source or style.

The spec is vague on purpose to allow people to wear what they already have.

[vmstan]

I also consider it more to be a "civilian" uniform. Total uniformity isn't really required for it. Heck, no two blue polls are the same depending on vendor, short sleeve or long sleeve, screen print or embroidered. If they added gray OR khaki as an option in 39-1 that'd me fine with me.

[JC004]

I also consider it more to be a "civilian" uniform. Total uniformity isn't really required for it. Heck, no two blue polls are the same depending on vendor, short sleeve or long sleeve, screen print or embroidered. If they added gray OR khaki as an option in 39-1 that'd me fine with me.

Yeah, my polos from Vanguard don't even have the freaking seal centered correctly.  Freaks.

IIIIIIII don't know that I would go as far as an "or."  We have so many options at this point.  I say decide on gray or khaki.  National Board members should have bright red pants, however.  That way, we can hide our wallets when we see them coming.  I'm still hoping they are going to buy back my flight suit CAP seal, USAF Auxiliary command patch, and command patch with "U.S.".   

[AirAux]

I, too, am sorry...That I have to agree 100% with Eclipse on this one.  The polo/gray is not military and therefore we don't all have to look exactly the same.  Give it up already..  If you must wear matching uniforms, such as USAF, lose the fat, shave the beard or drop dead.  The rest of us will go play in our similar clothes and enjoy our selves.  Geeessshhh.  I didn't like the khaki's when I was on active duty and I don't own one pair of khaki dockers and don't plan on ever doing so.. It is what it is...  My new favorite line, out of The Losers...Don't start none, won't be none..  Carry on, hopefully with a different topic..   

[Eclipse]

I, too, am sorry...That I have to agree 100% with Eclipse on this one.

Ahh, the pain we must endure for CAP...

[a2capt]

No, but the White/Gray is a substitute for a military combination, and then it should look the same, and if the rationale for the polo/gray is to utilize the same gray pants then that too would look the same if the uniform type were specified with a commonly available item.

[Eclipse]

"Uniform" to me, means reasonably the same from 10-20 feet - examine anything we wear with a microscope and there are differences.

I have blue USAF shirts from different, but official, manufacturers that are clearly different materials, weight and color from 2 feet - from
10 they look they same.

We get everyone in the same general outfit, and/or just get people to follow the rules and we've won.  Get anal about the manufacturer's tag or whether it has cargo pockets and you lose the war in the minutia of a meaningless battle.

A good percentage of the CAP membership, and a number of AD and GD/RS that I know, don't even know there are color shades specified for service dress pants and wear the wrong ones all the time.  From 20 feet no one cares.

[AirAux]

I'm becoming Eclipse's number one fan today..  Kudos Eclipse..

[cap235629]

If you must wear matching uniforms, such as USAF, lose the fat, shave the beard or drop dead.

Yes you are SORRY, very SORRY.

Rather than get my self in trouble for saying what I really feel, I will leave it at that.

[AirAux]

Excellent!!  And if you expect anyone to understand the post under your name, write it in English, the accepted, preferred language in this country..

[SarDragon]

Eh, there's a bunch of online translators online, if you really care that much. BTW, it's Gaelic.

[Custer]

A good percentage of the CAP membership, and a number of AD and GD/RS that I know, don't even know there are color shades specified for service dress pants and wear the wrong ones all the time.

I'm looking at Table 2-1 in CAPM 39-1 right now.  And I kid you not, it does not specify a color for the service dress pants.  AT ALL.   Full cut, straight hanging, no cuffs, has to fit at the natural waistline.  It does specify fabrics but never mentions shade beyond saying somewhere if you wear the service coat they have to match.  You are lucky they show up wearing blue, as apparently they don't have to.  How can they get the shade wrong?

[Eclipse]

You are lucky they show up wearing blue, as apparently they don't have to.  How can they get the shade wrong?

When discussing USAF-style uniforms, any voids in the CAP regs are back-filled by AFI 36-2903.

There are two shades - 1620 and 1625 - you can wear either without the jacket, but with the jacket the shades must match.

I recently has a conversation with a field grade reservist who was unaware there were even two shades.  Though he's still very active, he hadn't worn anything but a flightsuit in years.

[cap235629]

Eh, there's a bunch of online translators online, if you really care that much. BTW, it's Gaelic.

Close, it is IRISH which is a Gaelic language.....

 

[Earhart1971]

Grey Slacks ad Grey Epaulets. I hate them both.

By the way I am Air Force Standard Weight now.  I can eat one meal a day and not gain weight, and lose a little.

We need a National Command Staff with the (you guess the part) to tell the Air Force the Uniform we will wear.

We don't care if the Army has a similar Uniform.

There is a another competing volunteer organization that wears the complete Army Uniform with their National Commander wearing 4 stars on epaulets. The Army has its own problem with volunteers stealing their uniforms.

Ok, my current suggestion: 1505 Tan uniform with Black Epaulets for Rank, and the Tan Jacket the Air Force wore in the 1950s with metal rank.


All infavor say aye!

[SarDragon]

Eh, there's a bunch of online translators online, if you really care that much. BTW, it's Gaelic.

Close, it is IRISH which is a Gaelic language.....

All Irish is Gaelic. Not all Gaelic is Irish.

[SarDragon]

Ok, my current suggestion: 1505 Tan uniform with Black Epaulets for Rank, and the Tan Jacket the Air Force wore in the 1950s with metal rank.


All infavor say aye!

Nay, for two reasons.

It will be a more expensive uniform, due to economy of scale. Compare the quantities the CAP would use versus the quantities the AF uses. BIG difference.

It is a harder uniform to take care of than the current uniform. I wore 1505s WIWAC, and thought they were horrid. The material was hot, showed dirt quickly, and didn't hold creases well without starch. Thems wasn't the good olde days!

[Earhart1971]

The shade would be 1505, that would be the end of the similarity.

Economies,we could get someone in India or Bangledesh to make a nice comfy cotton uniform.

How about $40bucks trousers and shirt.

By the way the Grey BDU pants that can be gotten from Vangard are tolerable with the blue polo.

The next shoe to drop is Woodlands Camo going bye bye and the next BDU abortion combo they decide on.

Ok dont get me talking about Uniforms.

[SarDragon]

The cotton was the part that made them suck.

[Custer]

By the way the Grey BDU pants that can be gotten from Vangard are tolerable with the blue polo.

You man the Propper ones from bdu.com?  I looked around the Vanguard site and didn't see any gray stuff.  One of the wings already made that their standard for the polo shirt and it is functional, good looking and not too expensive.  I don't think it would work with the Aviator shirt uniform though - probably fits in that "casual slacks" category

[Earhart1971]

I could swear that someone said they come from Vangard, with a nice Black Web belt included. Yeah, they are Grey BDU Trousers.

The Aviator Shirt Uniform is ruined by the NB. The Blue Epaulets leave that Uniform in September 2010. Then we wear the Luftwaffe Grey Epaulets.  Just can the whole thing as far as I am concerned.

I dont need to wear ribbons and wings. I will wear the BDU, but I just hate the way the Blue Uniform has gone and the Air Force kicked us on the Aviator Combo.

Maybe I can get a corp pilot job and use my Aviators Shirts for a paying position, LOL!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I could swear that someone said they come from Vangard, with a nice Black Web belt included. Yeah, they are Grey BDU Trousers.

I still loathe grey anything (except my hair  ) where CAP is concerned, but at least BDU trousers are more "operational," and can look really good if taken care of.

The Aviator Shirt Uniform is ruined by the NB. The Blue Epaulets leave that Uniform in September 2010. Then we wear the Luftwaffe Grey Epaulets.  Just can the whole thing as far as I am concerned.

Actually, the WWII Luftwaffe wore a blue-grey slightly more grey than the RAF, but still blue.

http://www.lostbattalions.com/german33-45/luft/LWTuchrock.html

The uniform today's Luftwaffe wears is very similar, though of course without the Nazi guff.

http://www.wephaus.com/proddetail.php?prod=114321&cat=8

I think you may be thinking of the East German Luftstreitkräfte, which wore grey uniforms with blue piping.

http://www.tridentmilitary.com/New-Photos9/tn21b.jpg

I dont need to wear ribbons and wings. I will wear the BDU, but I just hate the way the Blue Uniform has gone and the Air Force kicked us on the Aviator Combo.

Actually, the AF signed off on the TPU initially, and even asked for changes in it - which were made.

It is National who is deep-sixing the TPU...as far as I know even the modified version with the grey epaulettes is not even being considered except for as a phase-out.

It seems that National is scared of anything blue potentially ticking-off the Air Force, with that silly vague "low-light/at a distance" clause being wielded as an axe against anything blue except the modified AF uniform.

[Eclipse]

BDU.com is where those pants come from, they are not BDU pants, they are lightweight tactical pants, and yes a belt comes with them.

Wear of the Aviator shirt uniform does not change in September and has not changed in about 8 years.

The Air Force has not mandated any changes to the Aviator whites, nor the CSU. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

We need a National Command Staff with the (you guess the part) to tell the Air Force the Uniform we will wear.

Not happening.  After the berry boards era and the TPU, I would be extremely surprised if the uniform issue is ever broached again.  I think the "moratorium" on uniform changes is probably permanent.  National seems to be so afraid of its own shadow where the issue of uniforms is concerned (unless you want to talk grey) that it's a dead issue.

My own preferences, not that they matter a tinker's cuss:

Blue utility uniforms/flying clothing

For AF blue uniform:
Blue 3-line nameplate for both shirt and service coat
CAP cutouts replacing U.S.
Blue rank slides with "CAP" embroidered on all garments
Belt buckle with CAP crest

For "distinctive" uniform:
Darker blue airline issue shirt
Dark blue airline issue trousers
Blue CAP embroidered rank slides
Blue flight jacket and/or black A-2

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The Air Force has not mandated any changes to the Aviator whites, nor the CSU.

Nonetheless, even though General Courter has made some fairly major changes to the CSU, it's still going out the door.

[Earhart1971]

Grey Epaulets look like the Luftwaffe Epaulets of the recent years. I was in USAFE. Familiar with the Luftwaffe Uniform. Light Blue Shirt with the Grey Eps. Or light Blue Eps.

One of my Seniors also a USAFE Vet coined that phrase.

[Eclipse]

The Air Force has not mandated any changes to the Aviator whites, nor the CSU.

Nonetheless, even though General Courter has made some fairly major changes to the CSU, it's still going out the door.

This thread isn't about that uniform.

[Custer]

This thread isn't about that uniform.

It was originally about how it was difficult to find commonly shaded gray pants to wear with the polo shirt.  We came up with two solutions:

1. Use the Tactical pants or BDU pants from Propper (at BDU.com) that are the right shade of gray, durable, and good looking.  Also cheaper than the embroidered shirt itself.

2. Pacific region has authorized Khaki pants for use with this uniform.  This is a far more widely available color, and you can get a perfectly acceptable pair of these at Wal-Mart for $9.88, and wear them with your civilian clothes as well.  If you are going to an activity outside the region you can probably afford to spend more than $32 for a uniform.

[ßτε]

2. Pacific region has authorized Khaki pants for use with this uniform.  This is a far more widely available color, and you can get a perfectly acceptable pair of these at Wal-Mart for $9.88, and wear them with your civilian clothes as well.  If you are going to an activity outside the region you can probably afford to spend more than $32 for a uniform.

Do you have a reference for this?

[cap235629]

BDU.com is where those pants come from, they are not BDU pants, they are lightweight tactical pants, and yes a belt comes with them.

Wear of the Aviator shirt uniform does not change in September and has not changed in about 8 years.

The Air Force has not mandated any changes to the Aviator whites, nor the CSU.

That is what I wear with the polo.  Makes a great uniform for everything but going in to combat, which is why we have BDU's, oh wait a second we don't go into combat.....

[AirAux]

I gotta admit, they do look good.  I don't know if I can remember what all I stuck into all 11 pockets though..  Bill, do you like the way they wear?  Are they wash and wear??  Thanks.

[a2capt]

Is that PCR authorization in writing someplace else besides the "uniform for the conference will be.. "? Finding PCR supplements isn't too easy.

[cap235629]

I gotta admit, they do look good.  I don't know if I can remember what all I stuck into all 11 pockets though..  Bill, do you like the way they wear?  Are they wash and wear??  Thanks.

I love them.  They are great for flying too.  They are really comfortable and lightweight.  They are wash and wear but I iron everything.  I have 2 pairs with polo's rolled into them with a pair of skivvies and socks in my 72 hour gear as well.

We do a TON of joint ops in Arkansas, I spend a lot of time in IC posts.  The look is professional and "fits in".

In the field, the pants are as durable as ripstop BDU's.  I blouse the pants when I am trudging through the brush.

[Custer]

Is that PCR authorization in writing someplace else besides the "uniform for the conference will be.. "? Finding PCR supplements isn't too easy.

I will attempt to find hard copy documentation this evening.  I am starting to get the impression, though, that the basis for this was the Region conference instruction letter and everyone just kept wearing that as a uniform afterwards.

I've only been back in CAP for a month now but I'm seeing khakis on probably 1 out of 3 people.  As those for the most part are the command pilots they may well have all been at the region conference and just kept dressing that way after they came back, and it spread like the proverbial virus.

If it was a temporary authorization it wasn't taken that way, at least not here.

[Eclipse]

If it was a temporary authorization it wasn't taken that way, at least not here.

What are the odds?   

A change like that would require NHQ approval and the supplement would then be required to be posted on the web.

My guess is neither is true - this would have been a big deal we were all aware of.

[a2capt]

A flyer advertising a conference is not an OI, Supplement, letter, or anything else of the sort. It's nothing official at all. How do you cite that? Do you put a copy of flyer with the date circled in the regulations book?

I'm not saying you're saying this, I'm saying if thats what it was intended, it sure is asinine. The only reference I can find to 'khaki' and CAP is the recent CAWG 39-1 that has the glider 'uniform' mentioned. Blue or Khajki shorts.

[Custer]

I'm not saying you're saying this, I'm saying if that's what it was intended, it sure is asinine. The only reference I can find to 'khaki' and CAP is the recent CAWG 39-1 that has the glider 'uniform' mentioned. Blue or Khaki shorts.

Uh.... yeah, yeah, they were all flying gliders......

Well at least now I'm back in line with the thread subject 

Seriously though, why did the Region commander authorize something like that for the conference?  Reading the actual regulations (as I can't trust anything else, apparently) there was no authority to do that.

Any WHY? Everyone with a polo shirt would have had to have had grey pants anyway.  And nobody from national attended and said WTF?

[Eclipse]

^ Welcome back to CAP...

[A.Member]

2. Pacific region has authorized Khaki pants for use with this uniform.  This is a far more widely available color, and you can get a perfectly acceptable pair of these at Wal-Mart for $9.88, and wear them with your civilian clothes as well.  If you are going to an activity outside the region you can probably afford to spend more than $32 for a uniform.

Regions have no authority to make such an authorization.  As such, that is a non-compliant uniform.

There is no need to waste time with yet another change - and to this "uniform" least of all.   Actually, I like the idea that it's kind of ugly - old person style.  Perhaps that will help keep it from becoming more popular.   

Here's an idea, you don't like the golf shirt combo, try wearing one of the umpteen other offerings, preferably an Air Force style uni.  It won't kill you.   Promise.

[JC004]

..
Actually, I like the idea that it's kind of ugly - old person style.  Perhaps that will help keep it from becoming more popular.   
...

You may have a point there.

[Custer]

I was only planning on using it during the time I'm doing level 1, after which its back to regular blues unless we have a unit BBQ or some such.

I think I may have found out how this got started.  Wanna bet they wear khaki pants with this? http://dldesignstore.com//index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=6

[JC004]

Actually, I like the idea that it's kind of ugly - old person style.  Perhaps that will help keep it from becoming more popular.

I was only planning on using it during the time I'm doing level 1, after which its back to regular blues unless we have a unit BBQ or some such.

I think I may have found out how this got started.  Wanna bet they wear khaki pants with this? http://dldesignstore.com//index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=6

HEY!  You quoted me and I didn't say that.

[Custer]

HEY!  You quoted me and I didn't say that.

Fixed.

I was trying to avoid an old Usenet problem of posting something that was 90% quote and 10% new material, and I dropped the tags in the wrong place.