Rumor Control - Corporate Vehicles

[ZigZag911]

I have driven 3 different vans over the course of the last few years and they get exactly the same miles:

12 pax Chevy Express (2003)- 17
12 pax Ford (2006)- 17
15 pax Ford (2008)- 17

CAP has vans built during this century?!? WOW!!!!

[LtCol Hooligan]

CAP has vans built during this century?!? WOW!!!!

I know- pretty awesome huh!!  If it helps, the previous van was a 1986 that we ran until 2003!!  Now talk about a gas hog!!  It had a 20 gallon tank- got 9 miles a gallon.  One time I was driving it back from Bismarck to Fargo (it broke down in Bismarck so we had to go back and get it) and I forgot to stop at the gas station that was 60 miles from Fargo and it was after 8 pm so i had to stretch it to 198 miles to the first gas staion in Fargo.  I seriously think the thing was on fumes!!

[badger bob]

Brings me back to my original question.

If we need to agrue for increased appropriations for the replacement of our old and in-efficient CAP corporate vehicle fleet, how many vehicles do we need and what critera should we use to modify the current table of allowances

[RiverAux]

Well, that was your original question, but not the original question of the thread...
but I'll give it a shot and say that our goal seems to have been to have a vehicle for every unit.  I'm not sure that is the way to go.  I would base it primarily on the ability of that unit to respond to ES work.  If they've got a ground team, then they've got a vehicle.  That should be the ground floor.  Additional vehicles above that could probably be disposed of and we could use member-owned transportation for routine non-ES travel. 

[badger bob]

How would you allocate for Cadet Programs?

[RiverAux]

I wouldn't. 

No other major national youth organization that I'm aware of buys vehicles for their local clubs to conduct routine activities.  They depend on parents and leaders to carpool.  Why can't we?  There is no organizational need that our cadets all travel in the same vehicle for routine events. 

Our airplanes have a legitimate use as an integral part of the cadet program, but the same cannot be said for ground vehicles.  We aren't teaching kids about the joys of driving.

Radio and DF equipped vehicles are necessary for CAP ES work.  While some of that need certainly could be met by installing the appropriate equipment in personal vehicles, the logistics involved in doing that on a nationwide level just wouldn't work given membership turnover, mission availability, etc. 

Now, if we switched to an all ES-based allocation system we would start out with a lot of extra vehicles.  Those would be allocated to the units using them most for non-ES work.  As those vehicles wore out they wouldn't be replaced.  Over time total fleet size would drop to more in line with what the AF is willing to support. 

Is it handy to have a van together so that a bunch of cadets can ride down to encampment or the CAC meeting together?  Sure, but it isn't necessary. 

[NC Hokie]

No other major national youth organization that I'm aware of buys vehicles for their local clubs to conduct routine activities.  They depend on parents and leaders to carpool.  Why can't we?  There is no organizational need that our cadets all travel in the same vehicle for routine events. 

If NHQ were to go this route, I would hope that they would make it easier for squadrons to access funds locked away in the wing banker program.  Renting vans (as my squadron would have to do) is expensive, and not every squadron is blessed with members that can front rental fees in addition to fuel costs.

[Eclipse]

If NHQ were to go this route, I would hope that they would make it easier for squadrons to access funds locked away in the wing banker program. 

Funds are not "locked away" in WBP.

You want / need to buy something?  Present it to the committee, submit a check request and buy it.

[davidsinn]

No other major national youth organization that I'm aware of buys vehicles for their local clubs to conduct routine activities.  They depend on parents and leaders to carpool.  Why can't we?  There is no organizational need that our cadets all travel in the same vehicle for routine events. 

If NHQ were to go this route, I would hope that they would make it easier for squadrons to access funds locked away in the wing banker program.  Renting vans (as my squadron would have to do) is expensive, and not every squadron is blessed with members that can front rental fees in addition to fuel costs.

INWG just implemented a fleet fuel card for every vehicle.

[NC Hokie]

Funds are not "locked away" in WBP.

You want / need to buy something?  Present it to the committee, submit a check request and buy it.

Unfortunately, that's not the most efficient way to do things like pay for fuel (the amount cannot be pre-planned) or rent a vehicle (which requires a credit card).  In retrospect, "locked away" may have been a poor choice of words, but there's no denying that it has become harder for local units to spend their money since the advent of WBP.

INWG just implemented a fleet fuel card for every vehicle.

Nice.  If you try hard you might be able to feel the envy radiating from here. 

[LtCol Hooligan]

Unfortunately, that's not the most efficient way to do things like pay for fuel (the amount cannot be pre-planned) or rent a vehicle (which requires a credit card).  In retrospect, "locked away" may have been a poor choice of words, but there's no denying that it has become harder for local units to spend their money since the advent of WBP.

Ok- I'll bite on this one.  I am not a fan of WBS for similar reasons to what you are saying (harder to get funds when we have unexpected events happen), but I do think that prior planning can pay for gas and the rental vehicle if that is the way you go.  Simply develop a budget in writing and have the SQ finance committee review it.  They can then approve it and have a check issued to you prior to the event.  Save your receipts (VERY IMPORTANT) and from there, return any unused funds post event.  This should be done on rare occasions, but it is doable.  You just have to do a slight bit more pre-planning before the event.

[Eclipse]

Funds are not "locked away" in WBP.

You want / need to buy something?  Present it to the committee, submit a check request and buy it.

Unfortunately, that's not the most efficient way to do things like pay for fuel (the amount cannot be pre-planned) or rent a vehicle (which requires a credit card).  In retrospect, "locked away" may have been a poor choice of words, but there's no denying that it has become harder for local units to spend their money since the advent of WBP.

I'll deny it - nothing's changed except which bank the money is in. 

If you're not in a position to wait a week or so for a fuel reimbursiement, so be it, just don't pay for the fuel.  If its taking more than a week or so to get a properly submitted check, that's a local execution issue either at your unit or the wing, not a failing of WBP.

As to renting a vehicle, nothing has changed their either, I'd be curious why you are renting vehicles for squadron use, but regardless, few units had credit cards, and if you need one the system still allows for them.

[NC Hokie]

I'll deny it - nothing's changed except which bank the money is in. 

Nothing's changed except for the additional amount of time and paperwork that must must be dealt with to spend unit funds.  While this isn't necessarily a bad thing, it does make units far less agile when it comes to financial issues.

If you're not in a position to wait a week or so for a fuel reimbursiement, so be it, just don't pay for the fuel.  If its taking more than a week or so to get a properly submitted check, that's a local execution issue either at your unit or the wing, not a failing of WBP.

You're right about this being a local issue, but, from what I've been able to ascertain, there is no requirement to process reimbursements in a timely manner.  Absent that requirement, individual members can only be told that their check "will arrive when it arrives."

As to renting a vehicle, nothing has changed their either, I'd be curious why you are renting vehicles for squadron use, but regardless, few units had credit cards, and if you need one the system still allows for them.

The vehicle rental thing was in response to RiverAux's idea to remove vans from squadrons that are not active in ES.  If that were to happen, those units would either have to rely on POVs or rent vans for any trips they wish to take.

Now, since I've raised some issues with WBP it's only fair that I suggest some solutions.  Here goes:

1) Define reimbursement requirements in the regs so members KNOW when they can expect their reimbursement to arrive.

2) Provide a means to charge fuel and emergency maintenance in all corporate vehicles and aircraft.  Some wings already do, but my humble opinion is that all wings should do this.

3) Develop a way to submit reimbursement requests electronically.  This is faster and eliminates the possibility that the request might get lost in the mail.

[BTCS1 C/CC]

yup

[Eclipse]

3) Develop a way to submit reimbursement requests electronically.  This is faster and eliminates the possibility that the request might get lost in the mail.

If you're snail mailing anything, anywhere anymore for CAP, then its your own fault when they get lost. Any wing still requiring mailed hardcopies, or even faxes, needs to have a meeting and work it out.

This is 2009, folks.

If my wing has done anything right, and they do a lot more right than wrong, its accepting anything and everything via email.  National does as well.  Kudos to both, and 10 wet noodle smacks to anyone in between that doesn't.

[NC Hokie]

3) Develop a way to submit reimbursement requests electronically.  This is faster and eliminates the possibility that the request might get lost in the mail.

If you're snail mailing anything, anywhere anymore for CAP, then its your own fault when they get lost. Any wing still requiring mailed hardcopies, or even faxes, needs to have a meeting and work it out.

This is 2009, folks.

If my wing has done anything right, and they do a lot more right than wrong, its accepting anything and everything via email.  National does as well.  Kudos to both, and 10 wet noodle smacks to anyone in between that doesn't.

I suppose that I should have specified that I'd like NHQ to develop a standardized way to handle reimbursement requests electronically.  A national program ought to be managed the same way nationwide, right?

BTW, when did NHQ start accepting membership applications electronically? 

[Eclipse]

BTW, when did NHQ start accepting membership applications electronically?

Actually, they've been accepting cadet applications electronically for years.  The only reason
seniors need anything "wet" is the fingerprint card. 

[PHall]

BTW, when did NHQ start accepting membership applications electronically?

Actually, they've been accepting cadet applications electronically for years.  The only reason
seniors need anything "wet" is the fingerprint card.

And even that could be fixed if we could find a way to send the prints to National via Live Scan.

[Eclipse]

BTW, when did NHQ start accepting membership applications electronically?

Actually, they've been accepting cadet applications electronically for years.  The only reason
seniors need anything "wet" is the fingerprint card.

And even that could be fixed if we could find a way to send the prints to National via Live Scan.

Yep - I was going to include that in my comment, but figured I'd get 12 reasons why that can't happen.

Even a high-resolution scan of the FP card should actually be enough - that's all our friends at the FBI are doing when they get it.

Can we all agree that beyond initial application there's little, if anything, which still should go through the snail mail or fax machine?

[NC Hokie]

Can we all agree that beyond initial application there's little, if anything, which still should go through the snail mail or fax machine?

I'll co-sign this as long as you tell me how to handle sending payment for a cadet application to NHQ if I send the paperwork electronically.