What to say on the radio?

[Robborsari]

We are often cautioned at briefings that our communications may be overheard by the media and not to say anything that you would not want a family member to overhear.  Given that we are specifically prohibited from using codes or codewords for things, what do people say on the radio in given situations?
You would not want to have ambulances and so on screaming to the site because you did not want to say dead over the radio but it needs to be communicated to the base.  Does anyone have a list of stock phrases to use for things?   I would like to be able to distribute a sheet of radio safe phrases rather than leave it up to each person to try and figure out what to say at the moment.

[Eclipse]

"Please call me on my cell phone."

[jeders]

Also a simple, "target/objective located."

[lordmonar]

Say what you need to say.

As you said we don't use code words.....but if you need to say "target located...no need for EMS" then anyone listening can figure it out themselves.

[NCRblues]

'we found em, they are all dead.... well except for one, but he ain't ganna make it"

OHHH, this is what TO say over the radio...sorry bout that 

[nesagsar]

"Sir we have a person here who reports body parts falling out of the sky, Over."

[RiverAux]

Personally, I am all in favor of having code words for certain situations and while it certainly isn't in the spirit of the ICS world, sometimes you just need to do things differently. 

[sardak]

I've always liked "Is Quincy in base?"  See how many CAP Talkers understand that.

As for plain language being an ICS requirement, this is from DHS's 19 page "Plain Language Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)" published in June, 2010, page 6:

   According to the NIMS Alert released by FEMA in 2006 and again in 2009, "beginning FY 2006,federal preparedness grant funding is contingent on the use of plain language in incidentsrequiring assistance from responders from other agencies, jurisdictions, and functional disciplines."

   At present there is no requirement at the Federal government level (or known State requirement) that mandates the use of plain language in daily operations inside of a single discipline. Emphasis is from the publication.

Personally, I've never understood why CAP members are so hung up on using codes when a find is made. Within a short time it will be discussed openly on the law/fire/EMS channels with no one worried about keeping it a secret. This is partly why the media often gets it wrong about who really made the find. 

As for being discrete, how about just, "On scene, no further assistance needed." Then let base deal with the paranoia of how to get the rest of the information.

And if there are survivors, I certainly hope no one is considering using codes.

Mike

[RiverAux]

Personally, I think such codes are most appropriate when an aircrew has a sighting of something that they'd like the ground team to check out.  A lot of the time they aren't going to be sure it actually is the target and I'd like the ground team to have some time to make sure before everybody and their brother starts streaking to the scene. 

But, when we get our encryption set up it won't make any difference, so it won't be an issue much longer.

[JeffDG]

But, when we get our encryption set up it won't make any difference, so it won't be an issue much longer.

How bout when the new widow is sitting in the mission base for the search (waiting for word that you've found her husband's overdue plane and that he's safe) and you say over your nice, clear, encrypted digital radio that her husband is dead and the coyotes have picked him clean...discretion in what you say is still warranted.

[wuzafuzz]

I've always liked "Is Quincy in base?"  See how many CAP Talkers understand that.

Quincy.  There's a blast to the past!  I like it.

_________________

I'm convinced any codes we invent will be public knowledge in no time at all.  Radio buffs will have them down faster than our own membership. 

Are codes even needed?  I suggest not.  If we use clear text for survivors and codes for fatalities, everyone will know what's going on anyway.  As others have said, go to the phone if you can, or just say it as delicately as possible. As JeffDG pointed out, you never know who's listening, and an inadvertent or careless revelation can be awful.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I've always liked "Is Quincy in base?"  See how many CAP Talkers understand that.

Never mind separating the cadets from the the seniors. This will go over the head of half the seniors

[Thunder]

________________

I'm convinced any codes we invent will be public knowledge in no time at all. 

Especially if we list them here!

[Mark_Wheeler]

But, when we get our encryption set up it won't make any difference, so it won't be an issue much longer.

How bout when the new widow is sitting in the mission base for the search (waiting for word that you've found her husband's overdue plane and that he's safe) and you say over your nice, clear, encrypted digital radio that her husband is dead and the coyotes have picked him clean...discretion in what you say is still warranted.

I agree with you completely, but I also must wonder why the family was allowed anywhere near the radio equipment... I would think that they should be kept as far away from the operations area as possible. Just my 2 cents.

[Thunder]

I think the concern is a valid. However, its right here in CAPR100-3 1-7.a:

a. Codes and Ciphers.
Locally designed codes or adaptation of official codes, however well intentioned, will not deceive a cryptanalyst; only officially authorized codes are to be used. It has become a practice within CAP to assign "code words" to various mission events, in the belief that doing so will conceal these events from an undesired listener. This practice is seldom effective, violates the principles of the Incident Command System and is therefore not authorized.

[lordmonar]

But, when we get our encryption set up it won't make any difference, so it won't be an issue much longer.

How bout when the new widow is sitting in the mission base for the search (waiting for word that you've found her husband's overdue plane and that he's safe) and you say over your nice, clear, encrypted digital radio that her husband is dead and the coyotes have picked him clean...discretion in what you say is still warranted.

How about the Mission Chaplain doing his job and keeping the family out of the mission base where they could hear such a transmission?

Being sensitive....and protecting the scene.....and trying to control the information are all well and good.......but let's keep a focus on the reasonn why we have radios in the first place.....and that is to do the mission in the most efficiant way.

Say what you got to say.....and nothing else.....use professional language and don't get wrapped up too much over this.

[bosshawk]

Where is the "Secret Squirrel" when we need him?

[Flying Pig]

Cant go wrong with "DRT"

[wuzafuzz]

Cant go wrong with "DRT"

Love it!

[coudano]

"If you had any balls, you'd say 'Oh, my God, what is that thing?' then scream and cut your mic."

[RiverAux]

I think the concern is a valid. However, its right here in CAPR100-3 1-7.a:

a. Codes and Ciphers.
Locally designed codes or adaptation of official codes, however well intentioned, will not deceive a cryptanalyst; only officially authorized codes are to be used. It has become a practice within CAP to assign "code words" to various mission events, in the belief that doing so will conceal these events from an undesired listener. This practice is seldom effective, violates the principles of the Incident Command System and is therefore not authorized.

Possibly one of the dumbest statements in a CAP regulation.  Not because of the prohibition itself -- that is valid even if I disagree with it.  But, the fact that they thought that anyone in CAP believed that there was any chance an actual cryptoanalyst was out there trying to break CAP find codes is just dumb.  Who thought that?  The only point was to give our guys a little headstart when reporting finds back to base so that we might beat the media to a crash site.

Also, what makes me laugh almost as hard is that the folks that say that using such codes won't beat a cryptoanalyst are the same folks who think its important to treat CAP radio frequencies as FOUO.  Just who is kidding themselves now? 

[Hill CAP]

VAWG works very close with the Virginia Dept of Emergency Management and therefore in VA it has been a requirement for years that CAP GTM and GTL be VDEM FTM and FTL (Field Team Member and Field Team Leader) Qualified.

One the radio there are 3 Status Finds


Status 1 Find = All Located and no medical required
Status 2 Find = All Located and Medical Required
Status 3 Find = All Located and Deceased

[SarDragon]

FWIW - encoded =/= encrypted.

[cap235629]

Where is the "Secret Squirrel" when we need him?

RIGHT HERE!

[Thunder]

VAWG works very close with the Virginia Dept of Emergency Management and therefore in VA it has been a requirement for years that CAP GTM and GTL be VDEM FTM and FTL (Field Team Member and Field Team Leader) Qualified.

One the radio there are 3 Status Finds


Status 1 Find = All Located and no medical required
Status 2 Find = All Located and Medical Required
Status 3 Find = All Located and Deceased

Thanks for posting your codes. Time to change them!

[♠SARKID♠]

From what I've been told the codes never really fooled anybody.  One of my older squadron members told me once that while on an a particular actual the code being used for find was "red truck".  When a team made the find, they surreptitiously and cleanly worked it into a sentence over the radio.  The media was on the phone minutes later asking what "red truck" was.
Keep in mind, that's somebody elses anecdote; codewords stopped being used shortly after I joined so I saw no redcaps with them.

The code for find is: Murgatroid; the code for recall is: Dudley; the code for sick is: Barney, as in I'm sick of that freaking purple dinosaur. - Author Retained

[a2capt]

Heavens to Murgatroyd! Exit Grid Left!

[C/Martin]

At the last SAREX I was at, we were told to say "clear the net" before we gave the situation of the person found. When that is said, all communications cease and all family is cleared. However we can not really control what people listening in are hearing. We just were asked not to give any person details.

At the status number mentioned above by another member of the Virginia Wing.

Just another point to add. As far as making official codes, it will never work. According to the manuals CAP members are not allowed to give out the CAP frequencies, but with a simple google search you can find it. If there are code words, they should be made up when the incident happens so it is not like its had some time to find itself on the internet. So code words would probably be at the discretion of the Incident Commander. Also, code words will close gaps. If CAP establishes code words and we use them while commicating with local search and rescue agencies. Escpecially if we use code to speak over the radio. Another probem with code words are what people make up. To be honest, hearing about a red fire truck during a search and rescue operation is a little off-topic. It would need to be words that are easily blended to what is going on.

[lordmonar]

I think the concern is a valid. However, its right here in CAPR100-3 1-7.a:

a. Codes and Ciphers.
Locally designed codes or adaptation of official codes, however well intentioned, will not deceive a cryptanalyst; only officially authorized codes are to be used. It has become a practice within CAP to assign "code words" to various mission events, in the belief that doing so will conceal these events from an undesired listener. This practice is seldom effective, violates the principles of the Incident Command System and is therefore not authorized.

Possibly one of the dumbest statements in a CAP regulation.  Not because of the prohibition itself -- that is valid even if I disagree with it.  But, the fact that they thought that anyone in CAP believed that there was any chance an actual cryptoanalyst was out there trying to break CAP find codes is just dumb.  Who thought that?  The only point was to give our guys a little headstart when reporting finds back to base so that we might beat the media to a crash site.

Also, what makes me laugh almost as hard is that the folks that say that using such codes won't beat a cryptoanalyst are the same folks who think its important to treat CAP radio frequencies as FOUO.  Just who is kidding themselves now?

Well first....there are "undesired listeners" out there.  The press, drug runners, border smugglers and just plain radio enthusiasts. 

CAP radio frequencies are FOUO.....because the are FOUO.....period.  That we treat FOUO as if it were TS/SCI NOFORN/BURNBEFOREREADING is the silly part...but I digress.

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective.  That is....they interfere with the communication process more then they protect the communications process.

Bottom line is that for 99% of the stuff that we do.....there is no need to protect the RF communications.  If the press gets a hold of a find via radio and gets their news team to the location before EMS or the Cops.....well good on them.  If they out the condition of the victims to the family before the MC does.....well bad on them.

We should be sensitive to the dangers of open communication....but let's not get bent out of shape over it.  A 10-4 here and there or Over and Out now and then....is not going to kill anyone.  If you are out on a search and you find the search objective......."Objective found, coordinates as follows" is good enough.  If you need EMS...say so.  If mission base asks for the condition of the objective....tell them.

There are people out there listening.....and we need to be aware of that.....but that is all.

[lordmonar]

VAWG works very close with the Virginia Dept of Emergency Management and therefore in VA it has been a requirement for years that CAP GTM and GTL be VDEM FTM and FTL (Field Team Member and Field Team Leader) Qualified.

One the radio there are 3 Status Finds


Status 1 Find = All Located and no medical required
Status 2 Find = All Located and Medical Required
Status 3 Find = All Located and Deceased

The problem with codes and the reason why FEMA wants us to not use them in multi-agency operations is that no one else knows what they mean.

VA has some nice codes.....so when a DEWG or DCWG people assist you on a search.....they will be out of the comm loop.

[RiverAux]

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective. 

Pretty bold statement there.  Upon what is it based? 

[Thunder]

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective.

No the reason we don't use codes is because of the "plain-english" requirement of ICS.

[Flying Pig]

Most LE agrees with that as well.  A lot of departments use plain talk.  Just say what you have to say.  Just be smart about what you say.  Back in the day before internet and scanners it may have had a purpose, but not anymore.  When you work with other agencies, even neighboring agencies within the same county, similar codes can have totaly different meetings.

Where I am, 10-36 to one agency means "What time is it?" and to an agency in the same jurisdiction it means "confidential information to follow."   Working SAR, it bogs things down when you have people who are fighting trying to talk in code.  Just say it for crying out loud so we can go!!!!!

[lordmonar]

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective. 

Pretty bold statement there.  Upon what is it based?

They are ineffective because 1) they are agency specific. 2) if you try to overcome #1 then they get released to too many people and any joe blow can get to them rendering the effort to keep the communication secure moot. 3) they slow down communications....if you don't know a code then you have to stop and look it up or ask someone.

So....codes don't keep communications secure, slow down the comm process.....i.e. ineffective.

[lordmonar]

The reason why we don't use codes is because they are ineffective. 

No the reason we don't use codes is because of the "plain-english" requirement of ICS.

The reason why FEMA makes us use plain english is because they are ineffective.

[nesagsar]

If ICS can assign tactical callsigns for radio users on a per incident basis then why not designate tactical prowords on a per incident basis?

[Eclipse]

Because the guidelines and regs say "don't".

Tactical call signs are supposed to be easily understandable as well.

[RiverAux]

Sure, any standing codeword will be totally ineffective and will get loose in the public.  It also makes absolutely no difference whether any other agency understands it since we are speaking of CAP members communicating with each other over a CAP radio.  And absolutely no one is talking about some 30 code word system covering every conceivable situation (like the old 10 codes).  However, briefing air and ground crews on a few brand new code words or phrases to use to relay sensitive information (such as the location of a possible find) is well within the grasp of even the dimmest CAP member. 

[lordmonar]

Yes....but why do things one way.....and then have to tell everyone to do it another way "If we work with someone else".

We should train like we fight......if we want to be part of the larger ICS/SAR community....then we should, internally, train as if we are always in a multi-agency operation.  That way we don't screw it up when/if we ever actulally get called out for a large multi-agency operation.

It is that simple.

[RiverAux]

In those situations we are unlikely to face the same situation. 

[JayT]

In those situations we are unlikely to face the same situation.

Why are you so dead for these codes?

The fact of the matter is that FEMA wants plain language for a reason. In Suffolk County, if I called for a 'Signal Ten, forthwith,' it means that I'm calling for police assistance. If I call out 'Signal Ten' in Nassau County, it means 'working structure fire' or 'clear the air.' If I call Signal Ten in New York City, it doesn't mean anything.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The issue is covered in the ICS courses required for GTM. The reason is stated in the post above! It is just as simple as that. Not all agencies use the same terminology therefore you should use plain English when transmitting over comms. The issue of loved ones should be taken care of by the LO and the Chaplain, they should be taking care of the family and keeping them away from the operation. If the Newly widowed woman rushes into the Ops Base when she hears the comms flare up then that is her problem. We have no responsibility when it comes to a situation like that.

[arajca]

We may have no responsibility for her, but she can easily disrupt the operation of the command center. That we do have responsibility for.

As mentioned several times, the chaplain, or someone else, must be assigned to deal with the family/friends/press/media to keep them out of the operations area.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Ok, who was it that deleted their post?

[Thunder]

Because the guidelines and regs say "don't".

Tactical call signs are supposed to be easily understandable as well.

At least according to my wing's communications curriculum (HI HI ICUT where are you) Tactical call signs are supposed to hide the function and location of the station. These will likely be used on DHS/DEA missions. Call signs are something that I don't think slow down the communications unless you slept through the briefing.

I've flown with pilots that keep forgetting their call sign, and its on a placard 1 foot from their nose all the time. Thats going to happen.

[Eclipse]

Because the guidelines and regs say "don't".

Tactical call signs are supposed to be easily understandable as well.

At least according to my wing's communications curriculum (HI HI ICUT where are you) Tactical call signs are supposed to hide the function and location of the station. These will likely be used on DHS/DEA missions. Call signs are something that I don't think slow down the communications unless you slept through the briefing.

I agree on them not confusing anyone paying attention.

I think we are talking about two different things, though.

"tactical", in this case, refers to a "clear-text" term for your function.  (i.e. Ground Team 1, Ground Branch Director, etc.), as opposed to using your wing-assigned station number (my wing uses "Red Fox ###).  I would say that in most CAP operations, it is more important to
make things quick and easy than to try and be "clever" because some HAM guy might be listening in on the channel.

"Tactical" in your example, with a capital "T" is more like "Yellow 6", which, as you say, would be used to shield location and function - like everything else ICS and ES, there are times these things are necessary and appropriate - LEA surveillance teams don't say "White Van in front of the house 4 this is guy sneaking in through the basement window 1", etc.

[Thunder]

Because the guidelines and regs say "don't".

Tactical call signs are supposed to be easily understandable as well.

At least according to my wing's communications curriculum (HI HI ICUT where are you) Tactical call signs are supposed to hide the function and location of the station. These will likely be used on DHS/DEA missions. Call signs are something that I don't think slow down the communications unless you slept through the briefing.

I agree on them not confusing anyone paying attention.

I think we are talking about two different things, though.

"tactical", in this case, refers to a "clear-text" term for your function.  (i.e. Ground Team 1, Ground Branch Director, etc.), as opposed to using your wing-assigned station number (my wing uses "Red Fox ###).

"Tactical" in your example, with a capital "T" is more like "Yellow 6", which, as you say, would be used to shield location and function - like everything else ICS and ES, there are times these things are necessary and appropriate - LEA surveillance teams don't say "White Van in front of the house 4 this is guy sneaking in through the basement window 1", etc.

Thats a functional call sign you are speaking of, then. I see the point though.

[lordmonar]

Because the guidelines and regs say "don't".

Tactical call signs are supposed to be easily understandable as well.

At least according to my wing's communications curriculum (HI HI ICUT where are you) Tactical call signs are supposed to hide the function and location of the station. These will likely be used on DHS/DEA missions. Call signs are something that I don't think slow down the communications unless you slept through the briefing.

I've flown with pilots that keep forgetting their call sign, and its on a placard 1 foot from their nose all the time. Thats going to happen.

HIDE the function?  Tactical Callsigns are supposed to do the complete opposite.  My CAP van is Silverstate 179 IIRC......but when when we use it on a mission it is Ground Team 1.

Our mission bases call sign is Silver State 170....but when we use it on a mission it is "Vegas Command" or "Mission Base" or "VGT Base".

Again...the goal is to make it easier to call who you want and not have to look up a bunch of call signs off of a cheat sheet.

[RiverAux]

In those situations we are unlikely to face the same situation.

Why are you so dead for these codes?

The fact of the matter is that FEMA wants plain language for a reason. In Suffolk County, if I called for a 'Signal Ten, forthwith,' it means that I'm calling for police assistance. If I call out 'Signal Ten' in Nassau County, it means 'working structure fire' or 'clear the air.' If I call Signal Ten in New York City, it doesn't mean anything.

Right, because it is very important when talking with other agencies to speak the same language.  However, in this case we're speaking of CAP members talking to themselves.  In that case interagency communication is irrelevant.

[Flying Pig]

I think CAP members just like to talk in code.

[arajca]

Because the guidelines and regs say "don't".

Tactical call signs are supposed to be easily understandable as well.

At least according to my wing's communications curriculum (HI HI ICUT where are you) Tactical call signs are supposed to hide the function and location of the station. These will likely be used on DHS/DEA missions. Call signs are something that I don't think slow down the communications unless you slept through the briefing.

I've flown with pilots that keep forgetting their call sign, and its on a placard 1 foot from their nose all the time. Thats going to happen.

HIDE the function?  Tactical Callsigns are supposed to do the complete opposite.  My CAP van is Silverstate 179 IIRC......but when when we use it on a mission it is Ground Team 1.

Our mission bases call sign is Silver State 170....but when we use it on a mission it is "Vegas Command" or "Mission Base" or "VGT Base".

Again...the goal is to make it easier to call who you want and not have to look up a bunch of call signs off of a cheat sheet.

Not quite - FUNCTIONAL DESIGNATORS are used for incidents. These include Ground Team 1, Flight Line, etc. TACTICAL CALLSIGNS are what we use everyday, such as Blue Mesa 4, Red Fox 87, etc.

[EMT-83]

I think CAP members just like to talk in code.

Acronyms, definitely. Code, maybe. 

[Flying Pig]

Gunslinger 25.  Heard that one from an AH1 Cobra a couple weeks ago.  I want it.  Bad.

[Eclipse]

Gunslinger 25.  Heard that one from an AH1 Cobra a couple weeks ago.  I want it.  Bad.

Pilot:  Yankee Doodle Floppy Disk, this is Foxtrot Zulu Milkshake, checking in at 700 feet, request permission to land.
ATC: Roger that, Foxtrot Zulu Milkshake, you are cleared to land. Welcome to the Mediterranean!

ATC: Alpha Velveeta Knuckle Underwear, you are cleared for take-off. When you hit that nuclear weapons plant... drop a bomb for me!
Pilot: Sphincter Mucus Niner Ringworm, roger!

[nesagsar]

Gunslinger 25.  Heard that one from an AH1 Cobra a couple weeks ago.  I want it.  Bad.

Pilot:  Yankee Doodle Floppy Disk, this is Foxtrot Zulu Milkshake, checking in at 700 feet, request permission to land.
ATC: Roger that, Foxtrot Zulu Milkshake, you are cleared to land. Welcome to the Mediterranean!

ATC: Alpha Velveeta Knuckle Underwear, you are cleared for take-off. When you hit that nuclear weapons plant... drop a bomb for me!
Pilot: Sphincter Mucus Niner Ringworm, roger!

Hot Shots, great film.

I just think that incident specific designators can be handed out at the inprocess briefing. If it changes on each incident and is only used once per incident (the actual find) then it will never be cracked. It might not work for mass casualty but for mass-cass we wouldnt be lead agency, you would start looking at ESF activation.

[Jerry Jacobs]

I like the use of codes for when I'm near  the family during a search (This is county SAR not CAP). I am usually one of the first specialized SAR personnel on missing person cases in my county and have to go into the house to collect scent samples for the K9's. A simple 10-55 wont raise suspicion from the family and will allow time for a chaplain to come and tell them.

[wuzafuzz]

If there are folks around, such as family, I just plug an earphone into my speaker/mic or headset into my base radio.  When i was a youngster I thought codes were the super-official cats meow.  Now I think they are unneeded. Everything you can do with codes can be done with plain language and discretion.  Family shouldn't be hanging out in communications anyway.  As was mentioned earlier, if they overhear a code word in an otherwise no-code environment they are going to know something is up. What do you say when they ask "what does that mean?" Unless you are a good actor you will reveal it right there anyway.

[a2capt]

"shouldn't be hanging out in ...xxxxx" yup, but sometimes "xxxxx, yyyyy, and zzzzzz" are all in the same small area.
In that scenario I'd figure that a headset/earplug of some nature would be in use anyway just for the sanity of the communications operator(s) in general. Some of you older ones get cranky having to listen to two things at once ;-)

[Eclipse]

Man do I wish more people would "invest" the $25 on a surveillance mic, regardless of what radio they are using.

I hate keying up and hearing myself echo all over the building - so unprofessional.

"Well, it isn't my radio, why should I spend money on it?"

((*sigh*))

[SJFedor]

I like the use of codes for when I'm near  the family during a search (This is county SAR not CAP). I am usually one of the first specialized SAR personnel on missing person cases in my county and have to go into the house to collect scent samples for the K9's. A simple 10-55 wont raise suspicion from the family and will allow time for a chaplain to come and tell them.

Which works in your local jurisdiction, but may not in others. You say you have a 10-55 on a missing person search, you're gonna get some confused looks around here.

(10-55 is intoxicated driver in these parts)

[Flying Pig]

  Here, the code for deceased person is 11-44.  NOW whatchagonnado?  Stop the madness I say.  Just say what you need to say. 

We had a SAR where the mother overheard a SAR member talking about her daughters body being located.  Bad decision #1 was talking in front of the mother.  SAR guy didnt realize she was there.
The mother wanted a homicide investigation claiming her daughter must not have been alone when she fell and that someone must have pushed her. Nobody could figure it out.  Thought it was just being driven by grief and denial.
Her demanding the homicide investigation went on for days until she mentioned she knew foul play was involved because someone must have pushed her daughter off of the "bench".  When one of the SAR detectives told her there were no benches, and that she had fallen off of a cliff, probably during the night. The mother started yelling that there was a conspiracy to cover the truth.  Problem is, in SAR, particular cliff formations are referred to as "benches".  The SAR member was talking in code or "shop talk" and it was overheard by someone who drew their own conclusions.  The mother and father accepted the explanation after the confusion had been overcome.

Just talk.  But be responsible with what you are saying.  If you use a 10 code, someone is going to whip out their IPhone and google 10-55.  Depending on what hit you pull up, you either located a DUI or you found a dead body.  If not, they are going to just ask.  And then what are you going to do?  Make up another 10-Code to answer them?  Codes are outdated and only bring confusion. With technology, nothing said in the open on an non encrypted freq is secure, even super secret CAP codes.

[SarDragon]

Hey, Rob, how about a 5150? 

[Flying Pig]

As long as your in CA!

[BillB]

Every police agency has their own version of 10 signals. ocally the Highway Patrol, Sheriffs Office and several local police departments have different codes. This causes problems for combined communications centers. In general in a combined operation, 10 signals are not used and transmissions are in plain english. So There is no way that CAP could go to codes since every Wing will come up with their own because of local conditions. That is one reason ICS prohibits codes.

[RiverAux]

Every police agency has their own version of 10 signals. ocally the Highway Patrol, Sheriffs Office and several local police departments have different codes. This causes problems for combined communications centers. In general in a combined operation, 10 signals are not used and transmissions are in plain english. So There is no way that CAP could go to codes since every Wing will come up with their own because of local conditions. That is one reason ICS prohibits codes.

Again, totally irrelevant and not what anyone was proposing.

[Flying Pig]

Its exactly the same thing.  Just talk in plain english.  Thats what everyone is saying.

[JayT]

Again, totally irrelevant and not what anyone was proposing.

Again, what is the difference?

[RiverAux]

You do not need established codes for this.  Codes can be briefed before every sortie and can change from mission to mission.  And since they would just be used between CAP members, it does not matter one bit that no one else understands them -- actually that is what you would want.  And it doesn't matter that the codes would be different across CAP since they would be mission specific.  So, it is irrelevant to FL Wing what AL wing is using on a different mission so long as everyone on the same mission is on the same page. 

[arajca]

...so long as everyone on the same mission is on the same page.

Therein lies the problem. I've been on exercises where the codes changed daily, and when the IC changed mid-day (due to family issues) while teams were in the field and aircraft were out. The new IC changed them because he didn't like the other guy's codes. Not to mention the aircrews who forget the new codes and fall back on the codes that they used 20 exercises ago. And of course, the resultant confusion is blamed exclusively on the communications folks.

[a2capt]

How about speaking with discretion, but with the idea that the person at the other end of the com-line has not a clue what you are talking about and needs just enough information to understand what they need to do with it.

[Rescue826]

2 words... PLAIN ENGLISH!!!!!

[Thunder]

Its hard enough to get people to use proper pro-words in transmissions. Its clearly prohibited to use codes. Lets not forget what we are trying to do with emergency services. We need to get a job done and thats to save a life. The dying person is not gonna care that you came up with clever schemes to hide what you are doing.

If everyone does their job, this is not an issue. These codes literally are making up for sloppy performance elsewhere. IC needs to establish a proper mission base. Chaplain needs to be with the family. Radio operators need to be trained on professionalism. PAO needs to handle media inquiries. Ground teams and Air crews need to be 100% focused on search.

Again, its already prohibited practice. Say what you want about ICS, but if CAP wants to be considered professional we need to fully adopt it and train to it.

[Major Lord]

I still think we should use pig latin; The media will never figure it out. " Aircraftkay ocatedlay: Onay urvivorsays- ispcry  itteredcray....."

Major Lord

[Rescue826]

I still think we should use pig latin; The media will never figure it out. " Aircraftkay ocatedlay: Onay urvivorsays- ispcry  itteredcray....."

Major Lord

You are my HERO!!!!