Please get rid of the plastic encased ranks

[Avery]

You know (My Mother's favorite admonishion) the green Nomex flight suit is not just an Air Force flight suit. Notice I didn't say uniform. Many organizations wear green Nomex flight suits because they can keep you from being BURNED ALIVE! The Air Force believes, incorrectly I contend, that the green Nomex flight suit is a uniform. But having said that, and acknowledging that I come from a multi-military family, we should, must, follow CAP regs when wearing the green Nomex flight suit. That's why I'm joining a lot of CAP folks and going to dark blue.

[mikeylikey]

The worst that could happen is someone giving us a salute!   Why must we complicate everything?

I think that may be the real reason for the things we wear.  Heaven forbid if a Airman can't read our CAP Bookstore ID Card at the gate and mistakenly salutes us because he sees rank on our shoulder.  I have a feeling it is an AF issue, in that they are full of themselves.  But, hey thats just my take, cause we are still wearing what the AF actually wore when we were wearing it at the same time (follow.....white on ultramine blue was strictly an AF item that they allowed CAP to also wear at the same time they did).  Why the switchout did  not happen when the AF switched is a mind-bogler.  I would imagine it had to do with the CAP Bookstore owning too many blue nametape stocks and didn't want to loose money.  Everything in CAP is centered around $$ if you have not noticed yet.....

[jb512]

I also understand making us noticeably different than the real AF, but not at the expense of being behind the times.  We can still have a distinguishable uniform and insignia without leaving us in smurf colored paraphernalia...

[mikeylikey]

I also understand making us noticeably different than the real AF, but not at the expense of being behind the times.  We can still have a distinguishable uniform and insignia without leaving us in smurf colored paraphernalia...

So True!

[Hawk200]

I have a feeling it is an AF issue, in that they are full of themselves. 

Bingo.

Who actually thinks that the crap they're going with for the ABU actually serves any purpose other than "Because we CAN!" ?

Amazing, how the Air Force talks Joint Ops, but when it comes to the walk, they don't have a whole lot to show when it comes to teamwork. At least for the higher levels anyway. When it comes to the trenches, things tend to be a little different.

[PHall]

You know (My Mother's favorite admonishion) the green Nomex flight suit is not just an Air Force flight suit. Notice I didn't say uniform. Many organizations wear green Nomex flight suits because they can keep you from being BURNED ALIVE! The Air Force believes, incorrectly I contend, that the green Nomex flight suit is a uniform. But having said that, and acknowledging that I come from a multi-military family, we should, must, follow CAP regs when wearing the green Nomex flight suit. That's why I'm joining a lot of CAP folks and going to dark blue.

Perhaps that's why the flight suit is called the Flight Duty Uniform in AFI 36-2903. (The Air Force Uniform Regulation)
To the Air Force, and the military in general, flight suits are considered a duty uniform and are expected to worn correctly.
Just like any other uniform.

[afgeo4]

I have a feeling it is an AF issue, in that they are full of themselves. 

Bingo.

Who actually thinks that the crap they're going with for the ABU actually serves any purpose other than "Because we CAN!" ?

Amazing, how the Air Force talks Joint Ops, but when it comes to the walk, they don't have a whole lot to show when it comes to teamwork. At least for the higher levels anyway. When it comes to the trenches, things tend to be a little different.

Fine... except that the USMC was the first branch to abandon  BDUs in favor of branch-specific uniforms. So specific, in fact, that their logo is imprinted into the fabric in many places. Even the navy (sans corpsmen) aren't allowed to wear it.

The US Army was the 2nd service to design their own uniform. They felt that they needed something different. Something that works for them and that show they're just as high speed as the Marines.

So there went the neighborhood since the BDU was mainly contracted by the US Army and USAF simply attached itself onto that contract. Without the primary client, the contract was allowed to expire. USAF couldn't keep the BDU and pay more for it (because of much smaller production numbers) when it could simply create a new uniform and since all the branches are doing their own...

I'm not sure if the Army would allow the ACU to be adopted by USAF anyway. Don't know if the idea was approached and don't know what the answer was or would have been if it was.

However... it isn't because USAF is "full of themselves" even though they have the right to be. They've earned the title of being the best in the world.

*This is not a comment on how useful ABUs are. Just on why they exist in the first place.

[Hawk200]

Fine... except that the USMC was the first branch to abandon  BDUs in favor of branch-specific uniforms.

The Marine Corps actually allowed Marines themselves (what a concept) to design a new uniform. Ended up being pretty practical because it was designed to use, not because they could.

I'm not sure if the Army would allow the ACU to be adopted by USAF anyway. Don't know if the idea was approached and don't know what the answer was or would have been if it was.

It was offered to the AF. They turned it down. They've said as such in the announcements about the ABU.

However... it isn't because USAF is "full of themselves" even though they have the right to be. They've earned the title of being the best in the world.

I like the Air Force. Will go back if I get the chance and it suits my goals. But they have a history of many decisions made "because they can".

Very little of the development actually recieved legitimate input from the field. Have a few friends still in the Air Force that have been wearing them. The shirts are hot in the most temperate of climates, and all that was done on the configuration was to add a couple of pockets to the BDU design, and make the items available in specific sizes instead of generalized ones. The green boots are another example of "because we can". All in all, it's a fiasco to create such a logistical nightmare.

[DNall]

Does this really need to descend into an ACU vs ABU versus why is the mil wasting so much money on dif util uniforms discussion? I'm as guilty as anyone of holding & talking about those opinions. But is it really necessary again?

Plastic grade isn't commercially avail any longer, and is hard to work with, looks less than desirable. Versus full color on OD is commercially avail, still looks distinguishable from AF, gives similar look to previous, but is cheaper/easier to work with. Priority request needs to be made right away to AF. I know we've asked before, but this is related to supply chain issues now that are beyond our control (and I'm not above mentioning safety).

[Hawk200]

Plastic grade isn't commercially avail any longer, and is hard to work with, looks less than desirable.

Available, but not easily obtained.

Here's where I got mine from: HJ Saunders

Not cheap, but it's all I could find. It certainly wouldn't be an acceptable sole source. It's probably mostly New Old Stock.

[JayT]

Does this really need to descend into an ACU vs ABU versus why is the mil wasting so much money on dif util uniforms discussion? I'm as guilty as anyone of holding & talking about those opinions. But is it really necessary again?

Plastic grade isn't commercially avail any longer, and is hard to work with, looks less than desirable. Versus full color on OD is commercially avail, still looks distinguishable from AF, gives similar look to previous, but is cheaper/easier to work with. Priority request needs to be made right away to AF. I know we've asked before, but this is related to supply chain issues now that are beyond our control (and I'm not above mentioning safety).

Or, we can go to full color on ultramarine, which is even more readily available through our supply chain.

[cnitas]

Full color on ultramarine on the flight suit?

Please, lets not wish that travesty on another uniform.

[Eeyore]

If we stick to ultramarine on the BDU why not use it on the flight suit? I agree that it isn't stylish, but it works.

[cnitas]

Well,

Subdued AF grade 'works' as well.
So does pin on rank as well as 'Bright' rank with OD background, or no shoulder rank at all, and leave it on the leather name patch.

You agree that the ultramarine is not 'stylish', so why don't we choose something that looks good and is professional, instead of taking the easy and cheap way out?

[MIKE]

Because it is easy and cheap and uniform across the uniforms.

[arajca]

Because it is easy and cheap and uniform across the uniforms.

Except for the blue flightsuit and utility uniform. They use full color on dark blue.

So why not carry that through to the green flight suit? Makes all flight suits use the same color.

[DNall]

Cost isn't a discussion. If we go to any embroidered version, it's ~75cents regardless of background color. Plus, being much easier to work with.

We're absolutely not going to subdued grade on OD background like the AF wears. I understand it is readily avail, that's not the issue there & we all know that.

Ultramarine background is a horrible idea. It looks like absolute crap for starters, which is generally agreed on by everyone. It's also not uniform across our uniform combinations. The dark blue flight suit, util, and BBDU all use dark blue grade. In fact the only thing that does use ultramarine grade is BDUs. And far that goes, we're doing everything in our power to change that by the time it gets to ABUs. I don't know what it'll end up, but it won't be idiotic or insulting.

color on OD background is commercially avail, and looks pretty much just like what we're replacing. Where's the issue in going to that?

[Hawk200]

Cost isn't a discussion. If we go to any embroidered version, it's ~75cents regardless of background color. Plus, being much easier to work with.....

color on OD background is commercially avail, and looks pretty much just like what we're replacing. Where's the issue in going to that?

Since price for color isn't an issue, why not just full color on sage? Would look good, be cheap, and achieve the same purpose as our plastic stuff. Just be easier to care for.

[DNall]

OD actually matches the flight suit pretty well, but whatever. If it's off the shelf, sewn on, under a buck, and looks decent (background pretty much like the uniform color). That's all I'm looking for. I don't think that's a huge deal to request.

[ßτε]

The dark blue flight suit, util, and BBDU all use dark blue grade. In fact the only thing that does use ultramarine grade is BDUs.

The BBDU uses utramarine and not dark blue insignia. The dark blue is only for utility and new dark blue NOMEX flight suit.