DANGER! ES NOOB AHEAD!

[biomed441]

Before I go any further, if you are not capable of dealing with noobish questions, please don't trouble yourself with a response on this thread. 

Now, as you probably can guess, I'm new to the ES field.  I went on a few SAREX as a cadet, but that's the extend of my knowledge.  So here are my questions.

1) After browsing around in the tools of the trade section, I hear a lot of talk about what riggins to use, either it be MOLLE, ALICE, or what have you.  Questions ranging from anything to color, to opinions on style are great and have more or less answered my question on if what I have is appropriate for ES use. Though just to be on the safe side I'll ask, if what I have is indeed appropriate. I have something similar to what is in the link below.

http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=28_173&products_id=3359 (Yes it is airsoft gear technicly, but its amazingly well built. I've given it quite a beating and it shows no sign of wear.)

Appropriate or no? I'm ok with having to get something else, but If what I already have will be acceptable, that will be a big money saver for me.

2) On the visibility aspect, I've heard talk that using black over OD is a good idea as it does increase visibility somewhat.  But really its the regulations that I am concerned about. All the orange/yellow/ highlighter goodness that is required.....Or is it? On the few SAREX missions I've been on, I saw everything from reflective tape sewn on to pouches and straps, orange squares sewn to the pouches and shoulder straps, entire orange vest over the persons equipment, entire orange vests under the equipment, and then there were those who simply had nothing at all but their equipment. So It makes me wonder, what are the actual regs on this, if any? I will admit I have no issue of attaching some reflective strips to my rigging's if that's all that is required. If an entire orange vest is required, that's fine as well.

3) For more information on ES regulations, what CAPR, CAPM, CAPP etc. Should I be consulting?

Thanks for your patience with me.

[SJFedor]

I'll take a stab at this:

1) if it holds the gear you need to be carrying (see the Ground Team Member/Leader Reference Text) and is comfortable/workable for you, then it's good to go.

2) All that's required is the orange vest. Obviously, people's personal preference is going to be stuff that doesn't clash with the uniform (no pink hello kitty backpacks) but again, see above. One of the required things in your gear is an orange vest.

3) CAPR 60-3, CAP Emergency Services Training And Operational Missions, outlines all the qualifications, and how we conduct ES operations.  You're also gonna want to find the Ground Team Task Guide, and Ground Team Member/Leader Reference Text, which gives you a lot of in depth information on specifics for GT operations.

[notaNCO forever]

 According to the 39-1 you have to have a orange vest on when performing SAR activities. To me it looks like you have a decent vest. I'd recommend getting a book on survival also, so in case you get lost you will know what to do.

I also have a question; in the 60-3 it mentions a GTL handbook that I can not find does anyone know where it could be found?

[gistek]

Ground team task guide
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/u_052704140516.pdf

Gateway to task guides and ES training materials
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/emergency_services/operations/emergency_services_curriculum.cfm

I have never actually seen a Ground Team Handbook, and I don't know anyone who has. One theory I've heard is that at one time there was a handbook, but it was discontinued and they forgot to remove the reference in the 60-3.

Another person suggested that its main use was to provide materials for starting fires.

[jimmydeanno]

I also have a question; in the 60-3 it mentions a GTL handbook that I can not find does anyone know where it could be found?

http://www.nesa.cap.gov/curriculum_material/GSAR/GTRT.pdf

or conveniently located at www.gocivilairpatrol.com>members>emergency services> operations> operations resources > ground team & UDF> GTL & GTM guide.  

[maverik]

On the note of your vest HSS is top-notch real stuff so you made a good choice also don't order from that sight about every 6 months they have credit card numbers stolen.

[Angus]

One thing I've found that works good for me that covers three bases is called a Hydra SAR vest.  I'll try and find the link to the store.  But it's a tactical vest that can hold my 24 hour gear very comfortably.  It's got orange and has reflectors and it also has a camel back built in. 

One of the great things that will help is find stuff like this that is functional in more than 1 respect and that cuts down on the space of what needs to be carried

[biomed441]

Thanks everyone for the info and respecting my lack of knowledge in this field. Now, who can answer this one? I took the CAPT 116 as a cadet, but its been over 7 years so does that test have an expiration date? My guess is I would need to retake it as it may have been updated, but just never know. If its still good to go then thats just one less thing to have to worry about.

[arajca]

It does not an expiration date, the when the reg changes, a new test is put out that everyone has to take. The reg has changed at least once in the last several years, so you do need to take the current version of the test.

[Eeyore]

I also have a question; in the 60-3 it mentions a GTL handbook that I can not find does anyone know where it could be found?

Or if you want to shell out cash to Vanguard they have the GT Task Guide in bound format here: http://www.vanguardmil.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_383_386&products_id=6971

[biomed441]

It does not an expiration date, the when the reg changes, a new test is put out that everyone has to take. The reg has changed at least once in the last several years, so you do need to take the current version of the test.

I kind of figured as much. Makes sence too. I probably wouldn't have remembed half of what was on the test before. Thanks arajca.

[Angus]

I still look at the test myself just for review.  Doesn't hurt. 

[MSgt Van]

Somebody mentioned a Hydra Sar vest. It's what I use; very comfortable and I can pack a ton of stuff in it.

http://www.searchgear.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=177

[notaNCO forever]

I also have a question; in the 60-3 it mentions a GTL handbook that I can not find does anyone know where it could be found?

Or if you want to shell out cash to Vanguard they have the GT Task Guide in bound format here: http://www.vanguardmil.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_383_386&products_id=6971

I have that one. The way I read it I thought there was another one for GTLs. I was probably just mistaken.

[Pingree1492]

2) On the visibility aspect, I've heard talk that using black over OD is a good idea as it does increase visibility somewhat.  But really its the regulations that I am concerned about. All the orange/yellow/ highlighter goodness that is required.....Or is it? [...] If an entire orange vest is required, that's fine as well.

As far as visibility goes- yes the regs require an orange vest to be worn- but that's it.  The advice I give to new cadets and seniors is to be less concerned with the regs in this issue, and more concerned with personal safety/mission effectiveness.  As a ground team member, you NEED to be visible!  Here's a couple examples:

1) Disaster Relief- we had about 40-50 members reporting to a staging area at about 11pm after an F-3 tornado waltzed through town.  The entire town was out of power (which was strangely eerie and QUIET),  so the only lighting available was that of headlights, a few floodlights and sirens (we eventually got some major floodlights deployed, but that was about 1 1/2 into the operation, and still didn't cover the entire area we were working in).  Those members who were wearing a bright-green vest with large reflective striping were visible.  Anyone who wasn't was pretty much invisible in the night.  This was a huge safety concern as we had a lot of trucks and heavy equipment moving into and out of the site. 

2) SAR- my team was in the woods (mountains in Colorado, with moderate tree coverage, all pines) doing an exercise.  We were coordinating with an aircraft overhead, they were going to lead us into the target that they had spotted close-by.  There were 6 people on the team- the aircraft only saw two of us.  Everyone on the team was wearing an orange vest, just some of them were covered by their gear, or were a small vest that was mesh, and a dull orange color, not the neon-type.  The aircraft only saw those people that had bright orange vests, with the vest covering a large area on the body, and not obscured by gear.  We're in CAP- you're going to work with an aircraft as a ground team member at some point!  It really helps if they can see you easily from the air (as in, as an aircrew member, I can track you, your progress to the target, the target, all while the airplane is moving and circling overhead without having to make you stop and give me mirror flashes every 5 minutes)!

I wear a pack not a vest (personal preference). My summer pack has a rain fly that has reflective lettering and is bright yellow, so I have that covering the pack all the time when I'm wearing it.  My winter pack has an orange vest especially for the pack, so when I put it on, I'm not just half-orange.

So, my suggestion, get something that's reflective, a BRIGHT Orange or Green, and covers your entire torso.  If you want to be seen, don't cover the vest with your gear- even though it "looks cooler that way" (common cadet complaint).

[CadetProgramGuy]

According to the Federal Highway Administration 23 CFR Part 634

People working near roadways have to wear the Lime Green Vests anyways....Might be a good idea for us to make the change as well......

[Eclipse]

According to the Federal Highway Administration 23 CFR Part 634

People working near roadways have to wear the Lime Green Vests anyways....Might be a good idea for us to make the change as well......

A lot of the road workers in IL wear two-toned vests and jackets - 1/2 blaze orange, 1/2 neon lime yellow.  I suspect it is to comply with multiple, conflicting regulations.  Usually orange is on top.

I personally believe the yellow is more visible.