cadet needs D&C before encampment, time is limited suggestions?

[mynetdude]

Drill & Ceremony testing questions for curry achievement cadets.

One of our cadets from our squadron is pretty much the only cadet going to encampment this winter (actually the only cadet and there is only one SM going as well).  This cadet is also my sister; she did well on her curry written and two of her PT tests and passed them all.

D&C from the time she joined until now has been lacking and I would like for her to be able to pass her D&C and I was informed by the CDC that she got through 3/4 of the D&C requirements and would be finished testing on another date but we re are getting very close to encampment and I understand people (cadets/adults) do not always pass on their first try so I encourage her to do the best, I don't raise any standards and expect her to follow that I only expect her to do the best she can.

I asked her to do some D&C commands that were listed in chapter 1 of her leadership book and she could not do 1/2 of them let alone I didn't know 1/4 of them.  (even if you didn't know how to execute a move, you can tell if you're doing it right because it doesn't look made up) so I had a talk with the CDC and we are running into a problem that it is Aerospace night on Tuesday and there isn't any room for D&C training.

So my question is: Can a cadet be tested for D&C at another squadron? Or be trained & tested for D&C on the same night at a different squadron (I guess you could call this cheating) she hasn't had the opportunity to practice because there hasn't been any real instruction provided except the mere basics.

She really wants to go to encampment, I do not want her setup for failure (isn't that what we are supposed to do is make sure that cadets are not put into a position to fail?). If she doesn't test this Tuesday then she has next Tuesday which is promotion night (and our squadron will allow her to do D&C) however if she needs more work then she has lost an extra opportunity by not being able to train/test this week instead of next week giving her an extra buffer.

There is always next encampment too, however I am not sure she will settle for waiting until next encampment especially if it is less expensive to go this time than next time.

I have been given ideas on where to get help, although they are great ideas I do not believe they will be beneficial as it will take time to get them.

[MIKE]

If nobody in the unit is familiar enough with AFMAN 36-2203 to be able to test her then you have a problem... and you are probably going to have to look to another unit as a temporary measure, and also get some seniors trained enough to be competent evaluators.

[lordmonar]

Okay.

First....I am assuming that you are someone of importance in your squadron.

Get with your DCC and tell him of the need for everyone in the squadron to work on their D&C.

This should be practiced every night.  It only takes about 15 minutes to go through all of the required drills for Curry.

For the remedial stuff.....look at another day.  An all day drill work shop. 

Break it up into small groups by ability.

Those who have mastered the list can work with those who still need help.

Off Topic but related.......if your cadets can't drill they should not be getting their Curry.

[Майор Хаткевич]

First, why is she the only one going?

Why aren't you or any other cadets going?

Encampments are fun and should be something to look forward to every year.

Second, why can't there be more time allowed for D&C?

I hope the SMs in your unit realize that not all cadets need the same requirements every meeting/month/year.

People join all the time, and the C/AB doesn't need to be in the same class as the C/SSgt as the C/CMSgt as the C/Capt.

Third, since this is your sister, can't you practice drill with her at home, and request that that she be tested at the meeting so that she could go to encampment? I've been able to get 5 new cadets up to speed on drill in two meetings - to a basic level. Enough for an Encampment, and it didn't take up all of the meetings either.

[mynetdude]

Great responses, my thoughts on every single thing everybody has said.

1. This tuesday night is already reserved for rocketry/aerospace

2. we do have a senior member who is competent on being able to observe D&C tests but he is only available on Tuesday nights and hasn't showed up for a couple weeks till last

3. You are right none of them should have their curry, they can salute, they can march, they can do parade rest they can do present arms/order arms.

I have not seen them do double time, quick time, half time (those ARE the requirements) and my sister can't even do order arms present arms (FWIW I can't either)

I have a difficult time with doing about face, but I will hopefully learn more at encampment since I am going.

I have emailed the commander, and we'll find out Tuesday night if anything is going to happen.  Cadets don't want to go because A) family B) its their christmas break and C) they won't go unless a specific cadet goes, etc

I'm with you all here!

[mynetdude]

Okay.

First....I am assuming that you are someone of importance in your squadron.

Get with your DCC and tell him of the need for everyone in the squadron to work on their D&C.

This should be practiced every night.  It only takes about 15 minutes to go through all of the required drills for Curry.

For the remedial stuff.....look at another day.  An all day drill work shop. 

Break it up into small groups by ability.

Those who have mastered the list can work with those who still need help.

Off Topic but related.......if your cadets can't drill they should not be getting their Curry.

See my latest post before this one about what the cadets can/can't do.

I actually SUGGESTED we do a Saturday training, but the SM that has better knowledge/skill to do this works on Saturdays and the senior cadet staff have difficulty teaching it and all of our Saturdays are booked until Dec 19th which is almost a month past encampment app deadline

I know they can do it on the 21st but our DCC is saying that there isn't any senior staff to supervise them... he can do it but he will be at the G1000 training course.  I will be asking him again tonight/tomorrow, if he won't get the cadets together on the 21st then I may not go to the meeting on Tuesday and just take her to another unit... but she won't pass by any standards.

[Майор Хаткевич]

One Senior is NOT enough to help with the testing.

Is this a new/small unit? Are there any Cadets who are past the C/SNCO stage?

I've administered the drill test with SM oversight as a C/NCO-Officer.

[mynetdude]

First, why is she the only one going?

Why aren't you or any other cadets going?

Encampments are fun and should be something to look forward to every year.

Second, why can't there be more time allowed for D&C?

I hope the SMs in your unit realize that not all cadets need the same requirements every meeting/month/year.

People join all the time, and the C/AB doesn't need to be in the same class as the C/SSgt as the C/CMSgt as the C/Capt.

Third, since this is your sister, can't you practice drill with her at home, and request that that she be tested at the meeting so that she could go to encampment? I've been able to get 5 new cadets up to speed on drill in two meetings - to a basic level. Enough for an Encampment, and it didn't take up all of the meetings either.

That is why I mentioned I asked her to do some of her D&C and she couldn't even march correctly she doesn't know the difference between half time, double time or quick time (and i sure as heck don't either)

[Майор Хаткевич]

Now I'm confused...

What is your status? Cadet? Senior?

What grade?

[mynetdude]

One Senior is NOT enough to help with the testing.

Is this a new/small unit? Are there any Cadets who are past the C/SNCO stage?

I've administered the drill test with SM oversight as a C/NCO-Officer.

we only have a total of 13 cadets only 2 of them are not regularly there because they have either already achieved the highest available or they just do not care because they are moving onto the SM side.

Its a long story but I am not going to point fingers. We do have NCOs, Right now we are so small all of the cadets do the same thing rather than being split up.

[mynetdude]

Now I'm confused...

What is your status? Cadet? Senior?

What grade?

Sorry I am 1Lt, sister is c/AB

[Майор Хаткевич]

Talk to the CDC* (not DCC). Ask to borrow the most senior NCO. Supervise him/her administer the test to the cadet. Take his/her opinion on what s/he believes the cadet's level is.

Along those lines...a few minutes of drill are not a bad thing...the CDC may need some pointers towards CAPR 52-16.

Also, along those lines, there are instructional drill videos of AF drill online. We also have the AF drill manual (http://sq36.cawg.cap.gov/36-2203.pdf) which can help with learning the drill, etc.

Edit: bad link!

[mynetdude]

Talk to the CDC* (not DCC). Ask to borrow the most senior NCO. Supervise him/her administer the test to the cadet. Take his/her opinion on what s/he believes the cadet's level is.

Along those lines...a few minutes of drill are not a bad thing...the CDC may need some pointers towards CAPR 52-16.

Also, along those lines, there are instructional drill videos of AF drill online. We also have the AF drill manual (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/afreg/blafman36-2203.htm) which can help with learning the drill, etc.

awesome source of info, thanks

[Майор Хаткевич]

Sure thing, that's why this forum exists.

Also, while her drill may not be perfect, as long as she gets the basics, Encampment should be a beneficial experience that helps her grow into the drill with the help of her flight staff.


Aaaaand the AF link was DOA. http://sq36.cawg.cap.gov/36-2203.pdf

[Nick]

The AF link is dead?  http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFMAN36-2203.pdf ?

[Gunner C]

Your unit isn't prepared to teach cadets.  WIWAC the SMs could teach anything in D&C.  You guys need to decide if you are going to train cadets or not.  I'm not scolding but since you're officers in a cadet environment, you need to know the cadet stuff.  If you aren't the masters of THEIR terrain, you'll never have their confidence.

I've gotta tell ya, I would have followed my leaders anywhere back in 1968.  Learn the basics of D&C.  You'll have immediate credibility.

[Nick]

How far is the next closest CAP unit, school with JROTC, or maybe even a military installation/guard unit from you?  They all may have resources that could be beneficial to you -- but I strongly urge you to keep your commander/deputy commander in the loop before you start looking for outside assistance.

[lordmonar]

Your unit isn't prepared to teach cadets.  WIWAC the SMs could teach anything in D&C.  You guys need to decide if you are going to train cadets or not.  I'm not scolding but since you're officers in a cadet environment, you need to know the cadet stuff.  If you aren't the masters of THEIR terrain, you'll never have their confidence.

I've gotta tell ya, I would have followed my leaders anywhere back in 1968.  Learn the basics of D&C.  You'll have immediate credibility.

+1

Cadets don't know or expect much.....but they know drill and they know uniforms.  We know as people with Youth Defencies....that in the real world/long run D&C and uniforms are not really all that important....but to a 14 year old they are the center of their world.

So you have to have a good handle on the D&C....or have a bunch of older cadets that do and can carry it on.

It is not really that hard.  90% of the stuff in the D&C manual are very well explained.  Even if you get it wrong....you will be ball park enough that someone else (like at encampment) can correct them and put the finish on it.

As for what is important....IIRC:

Fall in
Attention
Parade Rest
Present Arms
Order Arms
Right Face
Left Face
About Face
Right Step
Left Step
Forward March
Right Flank
Left Flank
Column Right
Column Left
To the Rear
Flight Halt
Open Ranks
Close Ranks
Dress Right

Thems the basics.

If you can master Count Off, Change Step, Extend and Close march, Column of Files you will have all the tools to get your cadets from point a to point b in a military manner.

[Eclipse]

How far is the next closest CAP unit, school with JROTC, or maybe even a military installation/guard unit from you?  They all may have resources that could be beneficial to you -- but I strongly urge you to keep your commander/deputy commander in the loop before you start looking for outside assistance.

+10

You can learn anywhere, and your unit CC should be encouraging you to seek out what you need if they can't provide it, but the only person who can approve the Curry is your unit CC.

[Nick]

You can learn anywhere...

And to tag onto that ... there are the naysayers out there that will pontificate the differences between learning how to drill from an Army guy or a Navy/Marine Corps guy.  Sure, there's some subtle differences in the way we all drill.  The Army's arm-swing is 9" to the front and 6" to the rear, versus the Air Force 6" to the front and 3" to the rear.  The Navy has a couple funky processes of executing in-ranks commands.  Whatever. 

The point is: We all do a right face the same way.  We all salute the same way.  The trick is to learn the mechanics of performing drill movements sharply and with gusto.  Once you have that down, you can refer to your friendly local copy of AFMAN 36-2203 to fine-tune the lengths, distances, paces, etc... most of which will only affect the more complex movements anyway (except the arm-swing).  But only someone who has been drilling proficiently for a while can teach you the tricks of doing it and looking good doing it.