Spaatz

[Dutchboy]

If there was a cadet that was a awsome test taker how fast can a cadet earn their Spaatz from the day they join?

Also, Is there a age requirement (18?) ?

[jimmydeanno]

Assuming that they are not in JROTC a brand new cadet would take a minimum of:

7 Months to earn the Wright Brothers (Assumes the cadet took 1 month to earn the Curry)

19 Months to earn the Billy Mitchell Award

27 Months to earn the Amelia Earhart Award

39 Months to earn the Ira Eaker Award

39 Months to earn the Carl A. Spaatz Award

Every cadet achievement and milestone award has a 2 month period of time between them, exept the Spaatz Award.  You may take the Spaatz exam anytime after completing phase IV.  Of course this could be 38 months if the cadet was promoted within days of joining...

There is no age requirement any of the cadet program awards.

[Flying Pig]

There was an article in the Volunteer Magazine about a 13 year old cadet who got her Spaatz.  How did that work?

[Eclipse]

She got in before the hard-fast rule about being 12, with the home school waiver and before they added the required time between grades.

We won't be seeing one of those again under the current system.

[Flying Pig]

OK, makes sense.  Unfortunately, I think she missed a huge part of the program by promoting so fast.  Just my opinion.

Being the DCC, I have had several homeschooled cadets who parents were ruthless about promotions.  I failed one kid in a review board and about had to fight my way out.  The parent demanded to be in on the next re-exam.  Nope. 

By the way, my kids are homeschooled before anyone jumps on me.

[mikeylikey]

I have met parents like that!  They are everywhere.  In fact, in the military I had one LT whose mother called ME and demanded to know why "Her son was not getting leave for Christmas".  I had to explain to her that someone has to stay at the unit during Exodus.  Needless to say, I had some one-on-one time with that LT, and his mother never called me again!

Freaking Lt's!

[John Bryan]

well I will agree that 13 is a little young for a Cadet Colonel......I will also say I would be against age limits. I have met some 20 yr old Cadet Colonels/Lt Col's who were poor leaders and I have also seen some 15 yr old Cadet Col' / Lt Col's who were great leaders and very bright young people.

The trick is not age limits or any other across the board limits...the trick is training the cadet properly so that a C/SSgt can do what a C/SSgt should be able to do not just pass the tests. We always seem to worry if a C/Col is ready to be a C/Col....we should start asking the questions at the Curry not the Spaatz.

Anyway...just my 2 cents....

ps....I have had public school cadets whose parents have been pains in the necks as well. Of course I normally hand them an application and finger print card and tell them to put up or shut up (I word it nicer  :angel:)

[Psicorp]

WIWAC, there was a Cadet in my unit who was a fantastic test taker.  Very book smart.  He couldn't march a flight of Cadets around a tennis court without running them into the fence, but he could pass tests.   

There is a world of difference between being able to pass an exam and having actually mastered the material therein.   There's also the issue of maturity and being able to handle the responsibilities that go along with advances in grade. 

I can't picture a 13 year old C/Col in my head, I just can't.  Not to be disrespectful, but I just can't believe that a 13 year old has the maturity for that grade.  At best they'd be a Doogie Houser situation...I'm sure you can think of worst case scenarios.   13 isn't just a little young, it's far too young.

[SarDragon]

Regarding the 13 yo C/Col, if you read the /volunteer article, it appears that she has quite an impressive résumé outside of CAP. Sometimes you get a really gifted person, who can do C/Col stuff at 13. It looks like she's one of them.

[JayT]

Regarding the 13 yo C/Col, if you read the /volunteer article, it appears that she has quite an impressive résumé outside of CAP. Sometimes you get a really gifted person, who can do C/Col stuff at 13. It looks like she's one of them.

Yeah,  but when a 13 year old tries to give orders to a 19 year old......

[arajca]

A major issue with these dicussion is that the program has to be designed for the vast majority of the cadets, not the one or two exceptionally exceptional ones. For every cadet like this 13 yo Spaatz, there are hundreds who fall well short.

[BillB]

The problem of the 13 year old giving oders to the 19 year old can be solved by reinstituting the OTC program. This is a program for 18-21 years olds where they would have most of the provledges of cadet membership and also some privledges of senior membership. A stepping stone in training to senior membership which would allow advancement in cadet training milestones.

[Indaweeds]

Although not included in the poster's question, am important aspect that is required to be considered for a cadet's promotion is whether or not he/she "...demonstrates an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion".  The unit commander, in approving a promotion, "is attesting to the cadet's ability to assume the next grade and accept increased responsibilities". (CAPR 52-16, Chapter 2, Section 4).

[Briski]

The problem of the 13 year old giving oders to the 19 year old can be solved by reinstituting the OTC program. This is a program for 18-21 years olds where they would have most of the provledges of cadet membership and also some privledges of senior membership. A stepping stone in training to senior membership which would allow advancement in cadet training milestones.

This problem could also be fixed by reminding the 19 year old that s/he is a follower.

I got a late start in the CP and regularly served under Cadet NCOs and Cadet Officers who were several years younger than I was. Heck, at my Basic Encampment, I was older than every single cadet staff member in my chain of command through the squadron level, and the C/CC of the Encampment only had me by a couple of months.

Yeah, it sucked sometimes. But I sucked it up, worked on my own progression, and in the meantime I followed my orders. I learned how to tactfully and discretely mentor up the chain of command. And most importantly, I got a very small taste of what my NCOs will feel like when I commission in the Army, because I'll be just like those inexperienced Cadet Officers who had passed a few more tests than I had.

The only difference is that those Cadet Officers actually did had more experience in CAP than I had.

Anyway... just sayin'. It's not nearly the big deal that people make it out to be. It's another opportunity to teach and mentor our cadets.

[Sleepwalker]

     I am a Senior member in the Squadron that produced the 13 year-old Spaatz, and watched her work very hard to get it.  She had served well at encampments, and served well in various staff positions in our Squadron and on Field Training Exercises prior to earning her Spaatz. 
    This Cadet is an amazingly mature young person, with some real good leadership skills.  I would not characterize her as a "test taker".   Everyone Cadet in the Squadron fails many tests, but the trick was to test immediatly after earning rank so that a test could be failed and re-taken the next month without an interuption in promotion.
      The rest of the story that you did not hear was that this Cadet was only one of three of our Cadets to earn Spaatz that year.  Motivational help in the Squadron counted for alot.  I have met many former and current Spaatz Cadets from around the country, and I only remember two of whom I was not fully impressed with. 
     The bottom line with the Spaatz is that it is administered by the Air Force (not CAP) and cannot be faked.  This young girl very much earned the right to wear the diamonds, and she earned my respect.     

[Briski]

You know, I have never met the infamous 13-year-old Spaatz recipient personally. But I have yet to hear anything negative about her from those who have.

[John Bryan]

Lets consider an example. Lets say you had a 14 yr old C/Capt telling a 19 year old C/TSgt something and the C/TSgt does not follow instructions or whatever. Lets say the young cadet officer is not doing anything wrong other then being younger then the NCO. I would say we should not limit the promotions of the young cadet officer but rather put limits on the older NCO who needs to act his/her age  :angel:

I can think of a few times in the real world were your boss maybe younger then you and you just have to deal with it. This is a life lesson we should be teaching our cadets. I don't care if they don't like working for that C/Captain or the pain in the butt BK Asst Manager they dislike. We need to teach them to respect those in positions of authority above them.

[Briski]

Lets consider an example. Lets say you had a 14 yr old C/Capt telling a 19 year old C/TSgt something and the C/TSgt does not follow instructions or whatever. Lets say the young cadet officer is not doing anything wrong other then being younger then the NCO. I would say we should not limit the promotions of the young cadet officer but rather put limits on the older NCO who needs to act his/her age  :angel:

I can think of a few times in the real world were your boss maybe younger then you and you just have to deal with it. This is a life lesson we should be teaching our cadets. I don't care if they don't like working for that C/Captain or the pain in the butt BK Asst Manager they dislike. We need to teach them to respect those in positions of authority above them.

What?? Are you actually suggesting that we do our jobs as CP leaders?? That's an outrage!!!

Ugh, I need more coffee and another donut now.

[jimmydeanno]

I hate when people use common sense and logic against us...