Mitchell Award presentation question

Salty · November 23, 2011, 07:01:23 PM

As far as the Wright Brothers, Feik and Armstrong achievements go, there was an issue of cadets backtracking to get those after the changes were made. The CAP Knowledgebase is clear that you can't do that. Wright Brothers, Feik, and Armstrong can not be given retroactively.

However, NHQ has already made the decision that Eaker Awards are retroactive. Also, I don't believe you can wear the silver triangular clasp on the Earhart ribbon now.

jimmydeanno · November 23, 2011, 07:07:57 PM

Quote from: Salty on November 23, 2011, 05:58:46 PM
That's probably because the Wright Brothers was moved from an achievement to a phase reward.

As far as the Eaker goes, it's listed as a cadet milestone award in eServices. If it's listed there I see no harm in getting an unnumbered certificate from NHQ.

I recently rejoined CAP after a 16 year absence and I noticed NHQ has the date when I completed Phase IV in my eServices record. It's listed as the Eaker Award. If NHQ thinks it's important enough to add to my record without me asking then I see no issue with asking them to send me the certificate to go along with my other cadet awards. I'm part of the 2% of cadets who get that far. If NHQ wants to honor those of us in that group (past, present, future) then so be it.

I earned the Eaker Award, and it has a number on it. Someone who was a cadet prior to the creation of the award didn't earn the Award. They earned the Earhart with a few clasps on it. Different criteria, same position in the program. Not better or worse. In fact, I'd probably be proud to wear the Earhart with the clasps because it shows differently than the Eaker does.

I didn't earn the Wright Brothers Award, I earned the Wright Brothers Acheivement, same ribbon, different criteria. I had three stripes at one point, but I was a C/Sgt, I didn't start wearing the Feik Award later on because I once had three stripes. The award didn't exist when I went through it, I didn't earn it. I remember promoting cadets to C/SrA while I was a C/Capt and giving them a ribbon that I didn't have myself. It is what it is.

NHQ is probably just adding them to the records because they get sick of a bunch of old guys calling up asking them for awards they never earned in some hope that they can hold onto their cadet days.

Salty · November 23, 2011, 07:12:33 PM

I understand the sentiment.

SarDragon · November 23, 2011, 10:06:07 PM

Here's an even older example.

January 1, 1964 marked the inception of the current cadet program. The transition period lasted from then until 1 Sep of the same year. I completed Phase 1 under the olde program, then moved to the new one. Consequently, I have no Curry ribbon. The same circumstances existed for the other folks who completed achievements under the olde program. I'm sure Doug Roach was missing quite a few new style ribbons when he received the 1st Spaatz award late in 1964.

Ron1319 · November 23, 2011, 10:21:08 PM

It seems like half of this thread is statements that all agree that you shouldn't wear awards that you didn't earn, yet I don't see any post where anyone says that you should. Did I miss a post even on the reread?

I do have a counterexample, however. I believe that when they redefined the NCSA (Cadet Special Activity) ribbon to include COS that anyone who attended COS now should be able to wear the NCSA ribbon.

Salty · November 23, 2011, 10:48:02 PM

My stance is that if it's in eServices or you have a paper trail with all the I's dotted and T's crossed it's legit for you to wear.

jimmydeanno · November 23, 2011, 10:58:08 PM

Quote from: Ron1319 on November 23, 2011, 10:21:08 PM
It seems like half of this thread is statements that all agree that you shouldn't wear awards that you didn't earn, yet I don't see any post where anyone says that you should. Did I miss a post even on the reread?

It started from me being grumpy about this comment:

QuoteSeeing as the Eaker award didn't exist when I was a cadet that one will just come by mail from NHQ once I update my records.

Salty · November 23, 2011, 11:02:38 PM

I make no apologies for NHQ's decisions. If you don't like it, take it up with them.

Ron1319 · November 23, 2011, 11:05:38 PM

Oh. I don't have a strong opinion about that. If national has decided to award them, then that's the way it is, I guess. I was number Eaker 127 on 15 October 1996. It was a brand new award, then.

jimmydeanno · November 23, 2011, 11:08:14 PM

Quote from: Salty on November 23, 2011, 11:02:38 PM
I make no apologies for NHQ's decisions. If you don't like it, take it up with them.

I'm not blaming, or being angry at you. I'm just trying to understand what causes someone (numerous years later) to pursue getting an award that didn't exist. There are numerous people who rejoin CAP who do the same exact thing (call NHQ, "I was a cadet 40 years ago, can you search through the stacks of old CAP news and send me replacement cadet awards?).

I can't say that after leaving a program for 15+ years that the thing on my mind would be getting an unnumbered certificate for an award that I didn't earn. At the time, the Earhart came with attachments to denote your achievement, why not just be happy with that and wear it that way as a symbol of the era that you served in as a cadet?

Spaceman3750 · November 23, 2011, 11:11:31 PM

There are the SM perks afforded to Eaker cadets that aren't available to Earhart cadets. But then, as one of the folks in my squadron who was otherwise eligible for this award pointed out, if you've been out that long you really need to repeat your CP track and SLS.

Salty · November 23, 2011, 11:14:13 PM

Because as best as I can tell, the silver clasp on the Earhart is no longer authorized. For NHQ's purposes the Earhart ribbon w/ clasp = the Eaker ribbon now.

As a point of clarification, I didn't go award hunting like I'm accused of. I made a conscious effort to sit down and read all the new regulations while I was waiting to hear from my prospective squadron commander about whether or not I could join for a few months before I moved to another state. Reading regulations is something I did as a cadet and as a member of the USAF. I supposed it's strange that I still have hard copies of my CAPF 66 (1989-1994) and CAPF 45 (1994-1995).

I would've been more than happy to do everything to get a "legit" Eaker Award. However, I was drummed out of the cadet program in 1994 because I made a choice to enlist in Ma Blue's Aeromedical Technician program as an enlisted 4FOX.

Salty · November 23, 2011, 11:15:25 PM

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on November 23, 2011, 11:11:31 PM
There are the SM perks afforded to Eaker cadets that aren't available to Earhart cadets. But then, as one of the folks in my squadron who was otherwise eligible for this award pointed out, if you've been out that long you really need to repeat your CP track and SLS.

That's exactly what I've been doing too. I've started completely over.