Mitchell Award presentation question

[Chief2009]

I have a cadet whose Mitchell Award just went through on eServices. My squadron commander tells me that it can take 6 weeks to get the certificate.

This is the first Mitchell award my squadron has had since I came back as a senior. I'm trying to get an idea of when other squadrons do the promotion and the presentation of the certificate.

Do you wait for the certificate to pin on the grade, or pin it on as soon as it goes through?

[jimmydeanno]

I've never had one take that long.  It's usually 1-2 weeks to get it. 

For the presentation, we'll invite a guest presenter. 

We'll have the certificate framed, with a mat, and do the promotion at the same time.

[Al Sayre]

You can have multiple ceremonies if you want.  One simple one at the squadron just to pin it on, and then a formal presentation of the award once it arrives, and yes I've seen them from 2 to 6 weeks to come in.

[Eclipse]

The certificate and the grade can be handled separately, and I've seen a lot of cadets who just show-up to the next meeting
wearing the grade.  That all depends on unit culture.

Since the cert is supposed to be presented by the Group CC or higher, it can sometimes take some coordination to get them in the
same room.  In this case, and considering the unrelated issues which may delay the cert, if your unit has a holiday party, the
stars may align to invite the Group CC to that.

Another suggestion I've used a few times is to borrow another cadets certificate and narrative for the presentation and just substitute
the proper Mitchell number.  You won't be able to tell in the "take and shake" photos that it isn't his cert, and that way you can get it done
if he is anxious.

[jimmydeanno]

Just my preference, but I don't like having CAP presenters.  I think it's the lazy way out. 

Get an outside presenter.  It helps with public relations, and depending on who it is, can be a lot cooler than "the old crusty group commander that nobody knows."

[lordmonar]

+1.

Prmote the cadet now....then work on getting some VIP (wing or group CC?) to present the cert when it comes in.

[coudano]

We strongly discourage any cadet from pinning on until we pin them at their awards ceremony,
even if we administratively promote them before that, in e-services.  --which becomes necessary in the event of Mitchell+ milestones, because it takes the certificate some time in the mail.  I almost always have certificates from nhq within 1 week of clicking 'approve', and they will overnight them on request for special events.  (actually a few weeks ago I promoted an Earhart on a Tuesday, and we had the certificate in hand for presentation at wing conference the following Saturday).

Since my squadron generally loans rank out to cadets and then checks it back in, this is not an issue.  Our cadets generally don't have access to the increased rank until we give it to them (unless they go borrow/buy/steal their own).

But TECHNICALLY the cadet CAN wear their grade effective the date approved in e-services (or form 66)
and if you want to be REALLLY pedantic, they are actually violating regs by wearing any other grade in the meantime.  It can be hard to 'hide' it from them if you are trying to surprise them, because when you promote them in e-services the system sends them an email "congratulations you have been promoted to C/2d Lt!!!"  Generally we will all agree to overlook it for a few days or even up to a week, in favor of a formal pinning for a milestone, with certificate, as everyone sees the value in the formal ceremony.

On another occasion, we might go ahead and pin the rank.  Suppose a cadet is on their way to staff an encampment, and was selected as a flight commander; and this is the difference between that cadet going as a Chief or a Lieutenant.  Then we will handle the certificate another time.


I let cadets have choice (within restrictions) how they want their pinning to go.  Sometimes they have an official that they specifically want (who also meets the minimum requirements).  There have been occasions when there have been officials that a cadet or that cadet's family specifically DIDNT want (the state representative that they campaigned frivilously against and did not vote for, for example).  Generally speaking I try to go outside CAP for officials, but I will use the Wing Commander AT a Wing Conference, for example.  That just seems like common sense.

They can even have a little reception with cookies or whatever if they want to.  This isn't forced.

**That said, we usually see a milestone coming from 2+ months off, and we start working the ceremony, dignitary ahead of time!

But we NEVER, EVER, just let the cadet show up one week in the new rank, without any sort of pinning ceremony, nor slide the certificate in the cardboard envelope to them across the top of the desk.  That sucks in every case, not only for the cadet in question, but also for the whole unit.

[Chief2009]

Thanks for the info, everybody.


We had planned on presenting the certificate at our Holiday Party, but I was unsure of the presentation of the grade.  We have invited both the Wing and Group commanders to the party. The Wing Commander actually presented this cadet with a previous promotion the last time he was at our unit and said he expected to be back to present her Mitchell.

[davidsinn]

But TECHNICALLY the cadet CAN must wear their grade effective the date approved in e-services (or form 66)
and if you want to be REALLLY pedantic, honest they are actually violating regs by wearing any other grade in the meantime. 

Integrity much?

[coudano]

But TECHNICALLY the cadet CAN must wear their grade effective the date approved in e-services (or form 66)
and if you want to be REALLLY pedantic, honest they are actually violating regs by wearing any other grade in the meantime. 

Integrity much?

yeah, that.

At my sq, for everyone except milestones (but including the WBA which is awarded locally)
I promote them in e-services about 15 minutes before the pinning ceremony.

It's only an issue for Mitchell, Earhart, Eaker, Spaatz.

I don't think it was wildly inappropriate to 'surprise' my C/Capt with a pinning and certificate in front of the wing at wing conf, though it was a technical violation of the reg.  He was out of uniform for about 90 minutes that Saturday morning.

[coudano]

i wonder if milestone certificates are on a budget freeze due to the CR issue
other things that get mailed are...

[MSG Mac]

When I was a Squadron Commander, I would promote every week if the cadet met the requirements.  A member should get the promotion as soon as possible after being earned, rather than wait for someone outside the unit have the time to come and present it. A simple pinning on with an announcement that a formal presentation of the Award will be forthcoming is suffecient. The award and promotion are two seperate things, treat them as such.

[Salty]

My Mitchell award was presented to me by my squadron's USAFR liason at a squadron awards dinner and my Earhart was presented by the Wing Commander during a Commander's Call.  Seeing as the Eaker award didn't exist when I was a cadet that one will just come by mail from NHQ once I update my records.

I usually wore the rank before the award certificate made it to the squadron but I'd pull it off and go through the pinning ceremony once the certificate got there.

[arajca]

For the milestones, we ask the cadet what their preference is - now or at the awards night.

[Salty]

I always enjoyed the award night events more than one off promotions during a squadron meeting.

[DBlair]

Promote as soon as it shows in eServices, and then present the certificate when it finally comes in and when a suitable presenter/setting can be arranged.

[Ron1319]

I guess it's up to your culture, but I see the award presentation and the pinning of the grade as two entirely separate things.  I wore my diamonds for about a year before I finally was in the same place as the national commander for the award presentation.  Interestingly, I wasn't actually pinned with C/Col because I was attending a unit out of state at the time and my commander said I could go ahead and put it on.  Our cadets get their grade once they've earned it and to make them wait for an appropriate presenter before wearing it would be very unfair in my opinion and experience.

[jimmydeanno]

I never understood the desire to get backdated awards that didn't exist.  It wasn't part of your program when you were in it.  You don't see me sending off for an unnumbered wright brothers certificate...

[Salty]

That's probably because the Wright Brothers was moved from an achievement to a phase reward.




As far as the Eaker goes, it's listed as a cadet milestone award in eServices.  If it's listed there I see no harm in getting an unnumbered certificate from NHQ. 

I recently rejoined CAP after a 16 year absence and I noticed NHQ has the date when I completed Phase IV in my eServices record.  It's listed as the Eaker Award.  If NHQ thinks it's important enough to add to my record without me asking then I see no issue with asking them to send me the certificate to go along with my other cadet awards.  I'm part of the 2% of cadets who get that far.  If NHQ wants to honor those of us in that group (past, present, future) then so be it.

[SamFranklin]

I agree with jimmy on this one. If you never earned the award, don't wear it, even if you have equivalent qualifications. If someone notices the discrepancy, simply point out, "Back in the day . . ."   

We saw this happen with the Armstrong and the Feik. Cadets had passed through those achievements before they were created. Same thing goes for JROTC cadets whose JROTC camp exempted them from the Mitchell Award encampment pre-req. Those JROTC cadets should not wear the CAP encampment ribbon unless they complete a CAP encampment. 

It seems fundamentally wrong to help yourself to a ribbon that no one ever presented to you.

If called on it, wouldn't you rather be known as someone who showed restraint and didn't help himself to a ribbon, versus someone who is making an argument as to why it should be okay?

[Salty]

As far as the Wright Brothers, Feik and Armstrong achievements go, there was an issue of cadets backtracking to get those after the changes were made.  The CAP Knowledgebase is clear that you can't do that.  Wright Brothers, Feik, and Armstrong can not be given retroactively.

However, NHQ has already made the decision that Eaker Awards are retroactive.  Also, I don't believe you can wear the silver triangular clasp on the Earhart ribbon now.

[jimmydeanno]

That's probably because the Wright Brothers was moved from an achievement to a phase reward.




As far as the Eaker goes, it's listed as a cadet milestone award in eServices.  If it's listed there I see no harm in getting an unnumbered certificate from NHQ. 

I recently rejoined CAP after a 16 year absence and I noticed NHQ has the date when I completed Phase IV in my eServices record.  It's listed as the Eaker Award.  If NHQ thinks it's important enough to add to my record without me asking then I see no issue with asking them to send me the certificate to go along with my other cadet awards.  I'm part of the 2% of cadets who get that far.  If NHQ wants to honor those of us in that group (past, present, future) then so be it.

I earned the Eaker Award, and it has a number on it.  Someone who was a cadet prior to the creation of the award didn't earn the Award.  They earned the Earhart with a few clasps on it.  Different criteria, same position in the program.  Not better or worse.  In fact, I'd probably be proud to wear the Earhart with the clasps because it shows differently than the Eaker does.

I didn't earn the Wright Brothers Award, I earned the Wright Brothers Acheivement, same ribbon, different criteria.  I had three stripes at one point, but I was a C/Sgt, I didn't start wearing the Feik Award later on because I once had three stripes.  The award didn't exist when I went through it, I didn't earn it.  I remember promoting cadets to C/SrA while I was a C/Capt and giving them a ribbon that I didn't have myself.  It is what it is.

NHQ is probably just adding them to the records because they get sick of a bunch of old guys calling up asking them for awards they never earned in some hope that they can hold onto their cadet days.

[Salty]

I understand the sentiment.

[SarDragon]

Here's an even older example.

January 1, 1964 marked the inception of the current cadet program. The transition period lasted from then until 1 Sep of the same year. I completed Phase 1 under the olde program, then moved to the new one. Consequently, I have no Curry ribbon. The same circumstances existed for the other folks who completed achievements under the olde program. I'm sure Doug Roach was missing quite a few new style ribbons when he received the 1st Spaatz award late in 1964.

[Ron1319]

It seems like half of this thread is statements that all agree that you shouldn't wear awards that you didn't earn, yet I don't see any post where anyone says that you should.  Did I miss a post even on the reread? 

I do have a counterexample, however.  I believe that when they redefined the NCSA (Cadet Special Activity) ribbon to include COS that anyone who attended COS now should be able to wear the NCSA ribbon.

[Salty]

My stance is that if it's in eServices or you have a paper trail with all the I's dotted and T's crossed it's legit for you to wear.

[jimmydeanno]

It seems like half of this thread is statements that all agree that you shouldn't wear awards that you didn't earn, yet I don't see any post where anyone says that you should.  Did I miss a post even on the reread? 

It started from me being grumpy about this comment:

Seeing as the Eaker award didn't exist when I was a cadet that one will just come by mail from NHQ once I update my records.

[Salty]

I make no apologies for NHQ's decisions.  If you don't like it, take it up with them.

[Ron1319]

Oh.  I don't have a strong opinion about that.  If national has decided to award them, then that's the way it is, I guess.  I was number Eaker 127 on 15 October 1996.  It was a brand new award, then.

[jimmydeanno]

I make no apologies for NHQ's decisions.  If you don't like it, take it up with them.

I'm not blaming, or being angry at you.  I'm just trying to understand what causes someone (numerous years later) to pursue getting an award that didn't exist.  There are numerous people who rejoin CAP who do the same exact thing (call NHQ, "I was a cadet 40 years ago, can you search through the stacks of old CAP news and send me replacement cadet awards?). 

I can't say that after leaving a program for 15+ years that the thing on my mind would be getting an unnumbered certificate for an award that I didn't earn.  At the time, the Earhart came with attachments to denote your achievement, why not just be happy with that and wear it that way as a symbol of the era that you served in as a cadet?

[Spaceman3750]

There are the SM perks afforded to Eaker cadets that aren't available to Earhart cadets. But then, as one of the folks in my squadron who was otherwise eligible for this award pointed out, if you've been out that long you really need to repeat your CP track and SLS.

[Salty]

Because as best as I can tell, the silver clasp on the Earhart is no longer authorized.  For NHQ's purposes the Earhart ribbon w/ clasp = the Eaker ribbon now.

As a point of clarification, I didn't go award hunting like I'm accused of.  I made a conscious effort to sit down and read all the new regulations while I was waiting to hear from my prospective squadron commander about whether or not I could join for a few months before I moved to another state.  Reading regulations is something I did as a cadet and as a member of the USAF.  I supposed it's strange that I still have hard copies of my CAPF 66 (1989-1994)  and CAPF 45 (1994-1995).

I would've been more than happy to do everything to get a "legit" Eaker Award.  However, I was drummed out of the cadet program in 1994 because I made a choice to enlist in Ma Blue's Aeromedical Technician program as an enlisted 4FOX.

[Salty]

There are the SM perks afforded to Eaker cadets that aren't available to Earhart cadets. But then, as one of the folks in my squadron who was otherwise eligible for this award pointed out, if you've been out that long you really need to repeat your CP track and SLS.

That's exactly what I've been doing too.  I've started completely over.