BDU Belt

[AngelWings]

 I respectfully disagree with all of you critizing my leading capabilities and my integrity over a belt. You people are insane, andf I might has well and throw out an insult., but I'm not, because I have the integrity to disagree with people peacefully and not insult their integrity and their leadership capabilities.

[SarDragon]

I respectfully disagree with all of you critizing my leading capabilities and my integrity over a belt. You people are insane, andf I might has well and throw out an insult., but I'm not, because I have the integrity to disagree with people peacefully and not insult their integrity and their leadership capabilities.

Let's look at this again:

At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

We should all care. That's the integrity thing - doing what's right, even when no one's looking. If you're not enforcing the regs, then you're as much apart of the problem as the folks out of uniform.

[AngelWings]

I respectfully disagree with all of you critizing my leading capabilities and my integrity over a belt. You people are insane, andf I might has well and throw out an insult., but I'm not, because I have the integrity to disagree with people peacefully and not insult their integrity and their leadership capabilities.

Let's look at this again:

At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

We should all care. That's the integrity thing - doing what's right, even when no one's looking. If you're not enforcing the regs, then you're as much apart of the problem as the folks out of uniform.

It is a failure of integrity on the other persons side, not mine. I do think though, now that I'm reviewing, that it is better to enforce military bearings, so I do have to change my mind on the subject. I don't like being a party pooper, if you will.

[Major Carrales]

Sorry, but that is a failure in logic. Enforcing proper discipline has little to do with Patton requiring ties for the officers in his day. Field uniforms in that day were far different than the utilities we have now. Even Patton would have updated for the times at hand.

Hawk, that was my scarcastic point.

[Майор Хаткевич]

It's funny, I had this conversation come up with a PJ last night at our meeting. He asked about the rigger 1 1/2" belts, and I told him they aren't authorized in CAPM 39-1 as of yet. Also told him some folks wear them, others stick to the little thin belts. As a former cadet, he understood. As someone who gets to pick his field gear, he gave me the silent treatment on that one.

[Eclipse]

I wear the 1-3/4" tac belts from bdu.com in blue or black.  (I have a couple of the USAF version, too, that ICENINE grabbed for us, but I don't like the buckle.) Of course I wear them just about every day if I am wearing pants with belt loops.  They are TSA-friendly, support "accessories" when necessary, and stop your pants from rolling over. 

A rigger's belt is a little extreme, IMHO, but whatever.  I've seen plenty of people wear them on missions, and at some point even the uniform-Stasi have more important things to worry about.  Also, in 80-90% of the cases, the BDU belt is never seen.  You guys all know I measure insignia with micrometer,
and 30% of my TMFTA is because of hats, but I'm generally of the opinion that anything uniform-related that is unseen, is between the member and their straw-provider.   I have yet to see anyone have 'tude regarding their belt, garters, socks, or Iron Maiden t-shirt (unseen).

With that said, LG's attitude doesn't fly.  In an inspection situation, or if anyone makes an issue of it, the regs are clear, and "what happens at the squadron" is probably more important than on missions or encampments, etc., since that will show how you act around people you know, theoretically respect, and who have an influence on your CAP career. 

How a person dresses every day is a lot more important than how they dress at their wedding.

[Hawk200]

Sorry, but that is a failure in logic. Enforcing proper discipline has little to do with Patton requiring ties for the officers in his day. Field uniforms in that day were far different than the utilities we have now. Even Patton would have updated for the times at hand.

Hawk, that was my scarcastic point.

Sorry, I missed the sarcasm tag.

...and 30% of my TMFTA is because of hats,...

I guess I missed this in the past, but "TMFTA?" Private message is fine if it's not sufficient for public post.

[Eclipse]

...and 30% of my TMFTA is because of hats,...

I guess I missed this in the past, but "TMFTA?" Private message is fine if it's not sufficient for public post.

"Too Much Free Time Award"

[Hawk200]

...and 30% of my TMFTA is because of hats,...

I guess I missed this in the past, but "TMFTA?" Private message is fine if it's not sufficient for public post.

"Too Much Free Time Award"

Thanks. Probably should have got that, but am trying to multitask at the moment.

[DakRadz]

So basically-

There is a huge difference between "not caring" and "making acceptable, [possibly] necessary, and common sense exceptions"

??
That's what I've taken from this thread. Don't do things for the wrong reasons, because intent is at the heart of acceptability.

[SarDragon]

I respectfully disagree with all of you critizing my leading capabilities and my integrity over a belt. You people are insane, andf I might has well and throw out an insult., but I'm not, because I have the integrity to disagree with people peacefully and not insult their integrity and their leadership capabilities.

Let's look at this again:

At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

We should all care. That's the integrity thing - doing what's right, even when no one's looking. If you're not enforcing the regs, then you're as much apart of the problem as the folks out of uniform.

It is a failure of integrity on the other persons side, not mine. I do think though, now that I'm reviewing, that it is better to enforce military bearings, so I do have to change my mind on the subject. I don't like being a party pooper, if you will.

Please look at the highlighted part of the quote. It appears to me that this is your attitude - "who cares?" You stated that you would not enforce the reg by calling out offenders.

That IS an integrity issue, your integrity.

[SPD6696]

I simply don't understand why so many members of CAP refuse to operate within the uniform regulations.  A regulation is a regulation.  Perhaps it's because there are no teeth to go along with it. 

This belt issue.  What is wrong with the authorized belt?  I wore that size belt for over 20 years in the Marines, Army and AF, and had no problems.  Is it because it's not HSLD enough?  Too bad.  Is it because it doesn't support your HSLD leg rig?  Lose the leg rig, they are stupid, anyway. 

I think it's because there are some members that don't quite grasp the concept of "The rules are there for a reason".  If you want to be a member of an organization, you need to play by their rules.  If you want to wear a uniform of your choosing, then, by all means, do it, but don't do it in an organization that has rules.  Go to the surplus store.  Buy your multicam.  Put some 18th Century French Epaullettes and a Star Trek communicator badge on it.  Get some jackboots and tuck your pants into them, and put all your stuff into a drop-leg dump pouch.  Don your beret (color of the week) and off you go. 

Just don't do it as a representative of CAP.  You owe it to all of the members , past and present, that have served well, and followed the rules.

Get.  With.  The.  Program.  A little maturity and integrity go a long way.

[Persona non grata]

Yeah........I went to MCSS and they dont carry the navy blue belt with black buckle anymore..........so what do I do for the replacement, I wear a black hawk bdu belt thats not authorized in 39-1.

[SPD6696]

Yeah........I went to MCSS and they dont carry the navy blue belt with black buckle anymore..........so what do I do for the replacement, I wear a black hawk bdu belt thats not authorized in 39-1.

Buckle here:  http://www.paradestore.com/detail.aspx?ID=91

Belt here:  http://www.paradestore.com/detail.aspx?ID=188

Google is your friend.

[Persona non grata]

Thanks

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I simply don't understand why so many members of CAP refuse to operate within the uniform regulations.  A regulation is a regulation.  Perhaps it's because there are no teeth to go along with it. 

This belt issue.  What is wrong with the authorized belt?  I wore that size belt for over 20 years in the Marines, Army and AF, and had no problems.  Is it because it's not HSLD enough?  Too bad.  Is it because it doesn't support your HSLD leg rig?  Lose the leg rig, they are stupid, anyway. 

I think it's because there are some members that don't quite grasp the concept of "The rules are there for a reason".  If you want to be a member of an organization, you need to play by their rules.  If you want to wear a uniform of your choosing, then, by all means, do it, but don't do it in an organization that has rules.  Go to the surplus store.  Buy your multicam.  Put some 18th Century French Epaullettes and a Star Trek communicator badge on it.  Get some jackboots and tuck your pants into them, and put all your stuff into a drop-leg dump pouch.  Don your beret (color of the week) and off you go. 

Just don't do it as a representative of CAP.  You owe it to all of the members , past and present, that have served well, and followed the rules.

Get.  With.  The.  Program.  A little maturity and integrity go a long way.

WIWOAD and wearing BDUs, the rigger belt was unauthorized, but you know what? I wore it, was able to use it in more ways than just holding up my pants and it caught on, a PFC straight out of basic had a good idea, who woulda guessed? Not authorized according to Reg, yet it worked better, so no one cared and more people in my company started using them because one person had the nuts to go ahead and do what they thought was more effective.

[SPD6696]

Fine.  I used rigger belts when I was deployed downrange and when performing duty, too, but it was to hold up a 6004 holster and pistol.   Other times, the issue belt worked just fine, even back when I was an 11B.  FWIW, there was a LOT of non-reg stuff myself and others were using/wearing/etc when I was downrange.  Completely different circumstances, and not relevant  to CAP.

What we are talking about HERE are CAP members who simply use a belt to hold up their pants at a meeting or event, not support a weapon.  If there is an actual SAR event, well, if that rigger's belt is going to function better in the field than an issue belt (and it will), then it needs to be an authorized item.  I also would have to agree with going ahead and wearing it.  Most quality rigger's belts have the ability to connect in to a line and tie off, a very desirable option in regard to safety and SAR.   However, while not in the field, in garrison, at your weekly meeting, it needs to be in compliance with the regs. 

Not to mention, Cadets need to learn to, and continue to, follow regulations.  SMs need to set the example.

[Persona non grata]

I have seen many cadets just wear the blues belt with the chrome buckle.  I dont make a bif deal about it but I do inform them that they need to get the BDU belt.  Maybe in the new 39-1 we can get approval to wear the belt that they sell at MCSS.   I have never seen any person in CAP go around nd tell people to lift up their BDU top so that they can see what belt they are wearing. If some jack wagon told me they wanted to see my BDU belt I would have some nice words for them.

[SPD6696]

I have seen many cadets just wear the blues belt with the chrome buckle.  I dont make a bif deal about it but I do inform them that they need to get the BDU belt.  Maybe in the new 39-1 we can get approval to wear the belt that they sell at MCSS.   I have never seen any person in CAP go around nd tell people to lift up their BDU top so that they can see what belt they are wearing. If some jack wagon told me they wanted to see my BDU belt I would have some nice words for them.

And there is the biggest problem.  Attitude.  It's actually very simple.  One, you should be in the correct uniform.  Two, your leadership should be conducting weekly inspections to identify any issues.  Three, if "some jack wagon" wants to see your BDU belt, and that "jackwagon" outranks you, well, you need to comply.  If you want to wear the uniform, you need to play by big-boy rules.  Otherwise, go home, put on your multicam/French epaullette/jackboot/StarTrek badge uniform and play by YOUR rules.  I know that a lot of Cadets want to go on to regular military service.  Having "nice words" for a "jackwagon" Team/Squad Leader, or PSG, or PL is not a good idea.  Learning bad habits/behaviors as a Cadet will only create problems for everyone later, either as a regular military member, or as a CAP SM.


Additionally, I agree, the 39-1 needs to make a riggers belt optional or alternate wear.  However, until that happens...

[Майор Хаткевич]

IIRC Eaker.Cadet is not a cadet at this time.