BDU Belt

[zonaman]

I have cadets in my squadron that wear the old style BDU belt (the thin blue one), and there is cadets and seniors that wear the black BDU belt. (the same kind the military uses).

I cant seem to find in the 39-1 what belt is ok.

I know this might be a dumb question . . . so be nice. . . AW! what the heck rip into me if you want I can take it.

[SarDragon]

I haven't seen anything that allows rigger belts to be worn with BDUs.

9. Any plain dark blue or black woven cotton web belt may be worn.

9. Any plain dark blue or black woven cotton web belt may be worn.

All of the rigger belts I've seen are nylon, and wider than the standard 1 1/4 inch dark blue belt.

[MIKE]

3 Belt and Buckle Dark blue, 1 1/4-inch woven cotton web, solid or woven elastic belt
with black metal tip end and plain (open faced) black buckle. Black tip
may extend up to 1 inch beyond the buckle, facing to the wearer's left
(men) or facing wearer's right or left (women).

No black belts with the woodland camouflage BDU.

Though I would not be adverse to this personally.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I've seen people wear the 1.5" belts. They seem to be much better at holding up the pants.

[HGjunkie]

I wear a rigger belt only in the field while using my thigh rig. It's black, and holds up extremely well. I believe it's 1.5 inches. Back at squadron I wear the standard blue belt.

[AngelWings]

 At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

[♠SARKID♠]

I wear a black Uncle Mike's L.E Instructor Belt.  It's a 1.5 inch nylon belt with a PVC core.  Stays tight and doesn't roll or bend.

The cotton ones are junk IMHO.  For those of us who live on a higher donut diet, the cotton will stretch and roll.  The buckles always rusted out too.

[Major Carrales]

A pistol belt and other items of use with BDUs for ground team and other ES work seems like items not covered by CAPM 39-1 because they are gear and not uniform items.   While I recommend the OD green webgear et al...honestly, if a cadet needs to hold a canteen for hydration purposes and uses a piece of rope with a water bottle from Wal-Mart attached with a clove hitch it will be allowed.

Honestly, people, gear is not a uniform item.

Now, the manual is pretty clear on what should be holding up one's trousers.

[Spaceman3750]

At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

Because the regs say to wear the regular sized one, blue or black depending on uniform.

Remember integrity? This is one of those issues.

[AngelWings]

At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

Because the regs say to wear the regular sized one, blue or black depending on uniform.

Remember integrity? This is one of those issues.

I get what you are saying. But remember, integrity makes me not want to get in a pointless arguement and come off has an a**, and the other person keep doing what they are doing anyways.

[DakRadz]

Littleguy,

Integrity means YOU do what is right. So if the other person knows they're wrong and still won't change, then no, there isn't much you can do as a lower-enlisted cadet. But you personally should still do the right thing as much as possible, and it will take you far.

[AngelWings]

Littleguy,

Integrity means YOU do what is right. So if the other person knows they're wrong and still won't change, then no, there isn't much you can do as a lower-enlisted cadet. But you personally should still do the right thing as much as possible, and it will take you far.

I do the right things. I don't see why I'm getting comments about integrity, has if I have a lack of, over a small belt topic. I'm mean, come on. Nobody here even knows who I am or what I've done, except for one member.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I wear a rigger belt, one with a tether link, one of our cadets wears the same thing, and it came up in discussion a few weeks ago for the same reason. I don't know how much the Reg belt costs locally, but they cost 8.60 on VG, not much right? If you take into consideration that you have to wait for shipping and then they don't hold up all that great, especially not compared to a rigger belt, and you look at the price of a rigger belt locally and see that they cost 15.00ish there is no more comparison needed, so it was dropped for the sake of ease of access and the durability for those of us that participate in ES actively. My belt I know is much much more that 15.00 probably about 50.00, but I got lucky and got mine from the Army while doing Air Assault on a weekly basis, otherwise I would wear a plain rigger belt over the Reg belt as well. This does not have anything to do with integrity being that it was never an intentionally hidden item, were you trying to hide the fact that you were wearing a different belt, then there is a problem with integrity.

Little Guy,

That is a respect problem as well as an integrity problem. You shouldn't try to intentionally hide who you are or what you do from your fellow members. It is just not right on many wave lengths.

EDIT: Not made clear, but the cadet that has a rigger belt has a standard belt, not an AASLT belt.

[AngelWings]

I wear a rigger belt, one with a tether link, one of our cadets wears the same thing, and it came up in discussion a few weeks ago for the same reason. I don't know how much the Reg belt costs locally, but they cost 8.60 on VG, not much right? If you take into consideration that you have to wait for shipping and then they don't hold up all that great, especially not compared to a rigger belt, and you look at the price of a rigger belt locally and see that they cost 15.00ish there is no more comparison needed, so it was dropped for the sake of ease of access and the durability for those of us that participate in ES actively. My belt I know is much much more that 15.00 probably about 50.00, but I got lucky and got mine from the Army while doing Air Assault on a weekly basis, otherwise I would wear a plain rigger belt over the Reg belt as well. This does not have anything to do with integrity being that it was never an intentionally hidden item, were you trying to hide the fact that you were wearing a different belt, then there is a problem with integrity.

Little Guy,

That is a respect problem as well as an integrity problem. You shouldn't try to intentionally hide who you are or what you do from your fellow members. It is just not right on many wave lengths.

EDIT: Not made clear, but the cadet that has a rigger belt has a standard belt, not an AASLT belt.

If that cadet is me, then no. I don't own any belt other than blue web belt that is in the books.  If it isn't, than sorry, disregard what I just said.
I keep my identidity and what I do pretty locked up so only one or two people know who I am on this forum, so mainly I can have agreements and disagreements with people without having to have people think it is a squadron reflection, and so an interviewer for something like a university doesn't find a thing that he personally disagrees with me and not accept me in to the university I want to go to, when it comes time for that. I witnessed this morning a huge assumption that I lack integrity and the basic meaning of the word, over a belt topic that I'm mearly saying is so miniscual that I'm not going to get to waste my time thinking about it if I see it at the meeting/field level. If I saw it an event like a parade or WAA, I'd tell the person that they should have a blue belt on when mingling with the public and other squadrons. That is what has me going.

[Major Lord]

A pistol belt and other items of use with BDUs for ground team and other ES work seems like items not covered by CAPM 39-1 because they are gear and not uniform items.   While I recommend the OD green webgear et al...honestly, if a cadet needs to hold a canteen for hydration purposes and uses a piece of rope with a water bottle from Wal-Mart attached with a clove hitch it will be allowed.

Honestly, people, gear is not a uniform item.

Now, the manual is pretty clear on what should be holding up one's trousers.

Sparky,

I think we are talking about the belt that holds up your pants, not a pistol web belt. For actual field use, I wear a Blackhawk riggers belt. While being clipped into a line wearing one of these is not exactly pleasant, it can save your life, or act as a belay point should you need to use a rope in some unforeseen fashion....Officers running around in public in a T-shirt and BDU trousers should be under pretty exceptional circumstances only, so no one should no what kind of belt you are wearing anyway! Cadets wear the BDU/T-shirt combo a lot, and unless they are high speed, back woods GTM's, I don't see why they should wear anything but the issue belt. Safety gear is a whole other story. 39-1 does not say you should wear hearing protectors, but 39-1 is not the controlling regulation for safety gear.

Major Lord

[DakRadz]

I had a huge THING written up, and I realized the great role models of old already covered this very situation.

Officers who fail to perform their duty by correcting small violations and in enforcing proper conduct are incapable of leading.

[Major Carrales]

I had a huge THING written up, and I realized the great role models of old already covered this very situation.

Officers who fail to perform their duty by correcting small violations and in enforcing proper conduct are incapable of leading.

If we follow through, historically, then we would be wearing ties with our BDUs as Patton mandated that off all officers for their then field uniforms.

[GroundHawg]

There is a guy on ebay who did a blue rigger belt for me. Awesome quality and only $20.

[Hawk200]

I had a huge THING written up, and I realized the great role models of old already covered this very situation.

Officers who fail to perform their duty by correcting small violations and in enforcing proper conduct are incapable of leading.

If we follow through, historically, then we would be wearing ties with our BDUs as Patton mandated that off all officers for their then field uniforms.

Sorry, but that is a failure in logic. Enforcing proper discipline has little to do with Patton requiring ties for the officers in his day. Field uniforms in that day were far different than the utilities we have now. Even Patton would have updated for the times at hand.

As far as belts go, the manual is clear on what is required to be worn. I would simply say that if you're not wearing a 39-1 legal belt, don't take your shirt off.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I had a huge THING written up, and I realized the great role models of old already covered this very situation.

Officers who fail to perform their duty by correcting small violations and in enforcing proper conduct are incapable of leading.

If we follow through, historically, then we would be wearing ties with our BDUs as Patton mandated that off all officers for their then field uniforms.

Patton was also considered to be a good "subordinate" commander as opposed to a top leader. I'm thinking I can find more examples of GOOD leaders who say they would rather their people do their jobs than what they wear.

In fact, the special forces (of all flavors), wear pretty much whatever they want. But they rock at their jobs.

[AngelWings]

 I respectfully disagree with all of you critizing my leading capabilities and my integrity over a belt. You people are insane, andf I might has well and throw out an insult., but I'm not, because I have the integrity to disagree with people peacefully and not insult their integrity and their leadership capabilities.

[SarDragon]

I respectfully disagree with all of you critizing my leading capabilities and my integrity over a belt. You people are insane, andf I might has well and throw out an insult., but I'm not, because I have the integrity to disagree with people peacefully and not insult their integrity and their leadership capabilities.

Let's look at this again:

At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

We should all care. That's the integrity thing - doing what's right, even when no one's looking. If you're not enforcing the regs, then you're as much apart of the problem as the folks out of uniform.

[AngelWings]

I respectfully disagree with all of you critizing my leading capabilities and my integrity over a belt. You people are insane, andf I might has well and throw out an insult., but I'm not, because I have the integrity to disagree with people peacefully and not insult their integrity and their leadership capabilities.

Let's look at this again:

At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

We should all care. That's the integrity thing - doing what's right, even when no one's looking. If you're not enforcing the regs, then you're as much apart of the problem as the folks out of uniform.

It is a failure of integrity on the other persons side, not mine. I do think though, now that I'm reviewing, that it is better to enforce military bearings, so I do have to change my mind on the subject. I don't like being a party pooper, if you will.

[Major Carrales]

Sorry, but that is a failure in logic. Enforcing proper discipline has little to do with Patton requiring ties for the officers in his day. Field uniforms in that day were far different than the utilities we have now. Even Patton would have updated for the times at hand.

Hawk, that was my scarcastic point.

[Майор Хаткевич]

It's funny, I had this conversation come up with a PJ last night at our meeting. He asked about the rigger 1 1/2" belts, and I told him they aren't authorized in CAPM 39-1 as of yet. Also told him some folks wear them, others stick to the little thin belts. As a former cadet, he understood. As someone who gets to pick his field gear, he gave me the silent treatment on that one.

[Eclipse]

I wear the 1-3/4" tac belts from bdu.com in blue or black.  (I have a couple of the USAF version, too, that ICENINE grabbed for us, but I don't like the buckle.) Of course I wear them just about every day if I am wearing pants with belt loops.  They are TSA-friendly, support "accessories" when necessary, and stop your pants from rolling over. 

A rigger's belt is a little extreme, IMHO, but whatever.  I've seen plenty of people wear them on missions, and at some point even the uniform-Stasi have more important things to worry about.  Also, in 80-90% of the cases, the BDU belt is never seen.  You guys all know I measure insignia with micrometer,
and 30% of my TMFTA is because of hats, but I'm generally of the opinion that anything uniform-related that is unseen, is between the member and their straw-provider.   I have yet to see anyone have 'tude regarding their belt, garters, socks, or Iron Maiden t-shirt (unseen).

With that said, LG's attitude doesn't fly.  In an inspection situation, or if anyone makes an issue of it, the regs are clear, and "what happens at the squadron" is probably more important than on missions or encampments, etc., since that will show how you act around people you know, theoretically respect, and who have an influence on your CAP career. 

How a person dresses every day is a lot more important than how they dress at their wedding.

[Hawk200]

Sorry, but that is a failure in logic. Enforcing proper discipline has little to do with Patton requiring ties for the officers in his day. Field uniforms in that day were far different than the utilities we have now. Even Patton would have updated for the times at hand.

Hawk, that was my scarcastic point.

Sorry, I missed the sarcasm tag.

...and 30% of my TMFTA is because of hats,...

I guess I missed this in the past, but "TMFTA?" Private message is fine if it's not sufficient for public post.

[Eclipse]

...and 30% of my TMFTA is because of hats,...

I guess I missed this in the past, but "TMFTA?" Private message is fine if it's not sufficient for public post.

"Too Much Free Time Award"

[Hawk200]

...and 30% of my TMFTA is because of hats,...

I guess I missed this in the past, but "TMFTA?" Private message is fine if it's not sufficient for public post.

"Too Much Free Time Award"

Thanks. Probably should have got that, but am trying to multitask at the moment.

[DakRadz]

So basically-

There is a huge difference between "not caring" and "making acceptable, [possibly] necessary, and common sense exceptions"

??
That's what I've taken from this thread. Don't do things for the wrong reasons, because intent is at the heart of acceptability.

[SarDragon]

I respectfully disagree with all of you critizing my leading capabilities and my integrity over a belt. You people are insane, andf I might has well and throw out an insult., but I'm not, because I have the integrity to disagree with people peacefully and not insult their integrity and their leadership capabilities.

Let's look at this again:

At the squadron and field level, who cares? Seriously, has ling has you not showing up with pink desert boots and a pink beret, I could care less. It isn't even visibile half the time anyway. I don't wear one, but I'm not going to bust somebodies cookies over it at the meeting level, and definately not at the field/bivouac level.

We should all care. That's the integrity thing - doing what's right, even when no one's looking. If you're not enforcing the regs, then you're as much apart of the problem as the folks out of uniform.

It is a failure of integrity on the other persons side, not mine. I do think though, now that I'm reviewing, that it is better to enforce military bearings, so I do have to change my mind on the subject. I don't like being a party pooper, if you will.

Please look at the highlighted part of the quote. It appears to me that this is your attitude - "who cares?" You stated that you would not enforce the reg by calling out offenders.

That IS an integrity issue, your integrity.

[SPD6696]

I simply don't understand why so many members of CAP refuse to operate within the uniform regulations.  A regulation is a regulation.  Perhaps it's because there are no teeth to go along with it. 

This belt issue.  What is wrong with the authorized belt?  I wore that size belt for over 20 years in the Marines, Army and AF, and had no problems.  Is it because it's not HSLD enough?  Too bad.  Is it because it doesn't support your HSLD leg rig?  Lose the leg rig, they are stupid, anyway. 

I think it's because there are some members that don't quite grasp the concept of "The rules are there for a reason".  If you want to be a member of an organization, you need to play by their rules.  If you want to wear a uniform of your choosing, then, by all means, do it, but don't do it in an organization that has rules.  Go to the surplus store.  Buy your multicam.  Put some 18th Century French Epaullettes and a Star Trek communicator badge on it.  Get some jackboots and tuck your pants into them, and put all your stuff into a drop-leg dump pouch.  Don your beret (color of the week) and off you go. 

Just don't do it as a representative of CAP.  You owe it to all of the members , past and present, that have served well, and followed the rules.

Get.  With.  The.  Program.  A little maturity and integrity go a long way.

[Persona non grata]

Yeah........I went to MCSS and they dont carry the navy blue belt with black buckle anymore..........so what do I do for the replacement, I wear a black hawk bdu belt thats not authorized in 39-1.

[SPD6696]

Yeah........I went to MCSS and they dont carry the navy blue belt with black buckle anymore..........so what do I do for the replacement, I wear a black hawk bdu belt thats not authorized in 39-1.

Buckle here:  http://www.paradestore.com/detail.aspx?ID=91

Belt here:  http://www.paradestore.com/detail.aspx?ID=188

Google is your friend.

[Persona non grata]

Thanks

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I simply don't understand why so many members of CAP refuse to operate within the uniform regulations.  A regulation is a regulation.  Perhaps it's because there are no teeth to go along with it. 

This belt issue.  What is wrong with the authorized belt?  I wore that size belt for over 20 years in the Marines, Army and AF, and had no problems.  Is it because it's not HSLD enough?  Too bad.  Is it because it doesn't support your HSLD leg rig?  Lose the leg rig, they are stupid, anyway. 

I think it's because there are some members that don't quite grasp the concept of "The rules are there for a reason".  If you want to be a member of an organization, you need to play by their rules.  If you want to wear a uniform of your choosing, then, by all means, do it, but don't do it in an organization that has rules.  Go to the surplus store.  Buy your multicam.  Put some 18th Century French Epaullettes and a Star Trek communicator badge on it.  Get some jackboots and tuck your pants into them, and put all your stuff into a drop-leg dump pouch.  Don your beret (color of the week) and off you go. 

Just don't do it as a representative of CAP.  You owe it to all of the members , past and present, that have served well, and followed the rules.

Get.  With.  The.  Program.  A little maturity and integrity go a long way.

WIWOAD and wearing BDUs, the rigger belt was unauthorized, but you know what? I wore it, was able to use it in more ways than just holding up my pants and it caught on, a PFC straight out of basic had a good idea, who woulda guessed? Not authorized according to Reg, yet it worked better, so no one cared and more people in my company started using them because one person had the nuts to go ahead and do what they thought was more effective.

[SPD6696]

Fine.  I used rigger belts when I was deployed downrange and when performing duty, too, but it was to hold up a 6004 holster and pistol.   Other times, the issue belt worked just fine, even back when I was an 11B.  FWIW, there was a LOT of non-reg stuff myself and others were using/wearing/etc when I was downrange.  Completely different circumstances, and not relevant  to CAP.

What we are talking about HERE are CAP members who simply use a belt to hold up their pants at a meeting or event, not support a weapon.  If there is an actual SAR event, well, if that rigger's belt is going to function better in the field than an issue belt (and it will), then it needs to be an authorized item.  I also would have to agree with going ahead and wearing it.  Most quality rigger's belts have the ability to connect in to a line and tie off, a very desirable option in regard to safety and SAR.   However, while not in the field, in garrison, at your weekly meeting, it needs to be in compliance with the regs. 

Not to mention, Cadets need to learn to, and continue to, follow regulations.  SMs need to set the example.

[Persona non grata]

I have seen many cadets just wear the blues belt with the chrome buckle.  I dont make a bif deal about it but I do inform them that they need to get the BDU belt.  Maybe in the new 39-1 we can get approval to wear the belt that they sell at MCSS.   I have never seen any person in CAP go around nd tell people to lift up their BDU top so that they can see what belt they are wearing. If some jack wagon told me they wanted to see my BDU belt I would have some nice words for them.

[SPD6696]

I have seen many cadets just wear the blues belt with the chrome buckle.  I dont make a bif deal about it but I do inform them that they need to get the BDU belt.  Maybe in the new 39-1 we can get approval to wear the belt that they sell at MCSS.   I have never seen any person in CAP go around nd tell people to lift up their BDU top so that they can see what belt they are wearing. If some jack wagon told me they wanted to see my BDU belt I would have some nice words for them.

And there is the biggest problem.  Attitude.  It's actually very simple.  One, you should be in the correct uniform.  Two, your leadership should be conducting weekly inspections to identify any issues.  Three, if "some jack wagon" wants to see your BDU belt, and that "jackwagon" outranks you, well, you need to comply.  If you want to wear the uniform, you need to play by big-boy rules.  Otherwise, go home, put on your multicam/French epaullette/jackboot/StarTrek badge uniform and play by YOUR rules.  I know that a lot of Cadets want to go on to regular military service.  Having "nice words" for a "jackwagon" Team/Squad Leader, or PSG, or PL is not a good idea.  Learning bad habits/behaviors as a Cadet will only create problems for everyone later, either as a regular military member, or as a CAP SM.


Additionally, I agree, the 39-1 needs to make a riggers belt optional or alternate wear.  However, until that happens...

[Майор Хаткевич]

IIRC Eaker.Cadet is not a cadet at this time.

[Persona non grata]

I will deferentially inform my leadership to conduct weekly inspections.
P.S
In my neck of the woods nobody out ranks me unless the WING KING PAYS A VISIT

[Майор Хаткевич]

Also, lumping a belt that will hold my pants on my gut better with berets, bells and whistles and orange hats is just not right. Those issues are miles apart.

[Persona non grata]

IIRC Eaker.Cadet is not a cadet at this time.

Have not  been since 1999
maybe that will clear things up for the previous poster

[SPD6696]

Oh, almost forgot.

" I wear a black hawk bdu belt thats not authorized in 39-1. " 

and

"I have seen many cadets just wear the blues belt with the chrome buckle.  I dont make a bif deal about it but I do inform them that they need to get the BDU belt. "

How would you feel if one of them took note of your UA rigger belt and had some nice words for you?

If you are going to correct someone, then, you should first be correct.  As an NCO in the .mil, when inspecting my guys, I did not make an issue out of something if I were out of compliance myself.  So, I tried to set the example.  I may not have been 100% all the time, but, you temper that with common sense and discretion.

If you are a ranking cadet, or a SM, you should be setting a good example, and practice mentoring those subordinate to you.

[SPD6696]

Also, lumping a belt that will hold my pants on my gut better with berets, bells and whistles and orange hats is just not right. Those issues are miles apart.

Not really.  It all goes back to following orders and regulations, whether it is the color of your socks, BDUs, or type of belt. 

The regulation manual is there for a reason.

[Майор Хаткевич]

You are lumping those who want to be flashy and stand out with those who wear a thicker belt. Not quite the same in my book.

[SPD6696]

Ok, it's not the same in your book.  However, the book that matters is 39-1.

[Sapper168]

Ok, it's not the same in your book.  However, the book that matters is 39-1.

Unfortunately it only seems to matter when enforced.

[Persona non grata]

Oh, almost forgot.

" I wear a black hawk bdu belt thats not authorized in 39-1. " 

and

"I have seen many cadets just wear the blues belt with the chrome buckle.  I dont make a bif deal about it but I do inform them that they need to get the BDU belt. "

How would you feel if one of them took note of your UA rigger belt and had some nice words for you?

If you are going to correct someone, then, you should first be correct.  As an NCO in the .mil, when inspecting my guys, I did not make an issue out of something if I were out of compliance myself.  So, I tried to set the example.  I may not have been 100% all the time, but, you temper that with common sense and discretion.

If you are a ranking cadet, or a SM, you should be setting a good example, and practice mentoring those subordinate to you.

I never said I wear a rigger belt you just assumed that, its a enhanced bdu belt(navy blue in color manufactured by BH).

[Persona non grata]

I think we all can agree that CAP need sto get permission to wear the enhanced BDU belt or riggers belt.   

[SPD6696]

I think we all can agree that CAP need sto get permission to wear the enhanced BDU belt or riggers belt.

Yes.  100%.  Along with some other common sense things.