Short Stacking

[Zen Master Charlie]

Hello everyone,

Just a quick show of hands. I know females are allowed to "Short Stack" According to 39-1 "All some or none" but males cant "All or none" Would it be worth me proposing this for males too at the next CAC meeting in my group. Im not sure when it is so I'd like to get the proposal to my Rep ASAP. To be honest I'm fine going without all of my ribbons, infact, I usually dont wear them (Drill Team being the exception) But when I am required to wear my ribbons (if this is set as a standard for Encampment Staff or Squadron SOP Etc) I get really annoyed because I can't wear both my GTM badge and my Wings. I'm mighty proud of all of my ribbons, but at this point they just annoy the crap out of me!    Anyone think its worth it to type a memo for the next CAC meeting? I mean afterall, you can choose to wear all, some, or none, if this rule is approved. I think it would just make it a whole lot easier for people in my situation.

Just an Idea...

btw this is my first time back to CAPTalk in years, I elected to leave after people were chewing me out and being extremely rude, so I'm giving the forum a try again, I hope i get some positive feedback... it ceases to amaze me how rude some people can be on here...    But I know there's a few good souls out there! 

[arajca]

The loss of the "some" option for cadets came as a result of the NCAC proposing to force cadets to only wear their highest cadet achievement or milestone ribbon. The National Board took the opposite approach and removed the "some" option for cadets. The rationale of the NCAC was that higher ranking cadets had some many ribbons that it was more appropriate for cadets to just wear their highest. Since younger cadets would want to still wear all of their ribbons, they could eventually have a bigger stack than cadet officers who chose to short stack and this would not have been right. Obviously, the NB did not agree.

Would it be worthwhile to propose adding the "some" option back to cadets? Probably. Keep in mind it would need to go through your wing commander to be brought up to the National Board and would probably be sent to the uniform committee who is supposed to be developing a cohesive uniform policy/program for CAP.

Your wing commander cannot unilaterally authorize short stacking for cadets, since that is not in the authorized uniform modifications the wing commander can make.

[MIKE]

I don't think that cutting it down to your highest award/achievement ribbon, but wear everything else is unreasonable... and would be consistent with the practice of senior members.

[arajca]

I don't think that cutting it down to your highest award/achievement ribbon, but wear everything else is unreasonable... and would be consistent with the practice of senior members.

Only some senior members do this. I haven't seen many that short stack. Most wear all or none, except when they haven't bothered to update their rack.

[MIKE]

Meant that as a senior I could wear only my Earhart... I had to drop the Mitchell and the other achievement ribbons.  However; seniors have the option of wearing only the highest professional development ribbon as well.

[Zen Master Charlie]

The loss of the "some" option for cadets came as a result of the NCAC proposing to force cadets to only wear their highest cadet achievement or milestone ribbon. The National Board took the opposite approach and removed the "some" option for cadets. The rationale of the NCAC was that higher ranking cadets had some many ribbons that it was more appropriate for cadets to just wear their highest. Since younger cadets would want to still wear all of their ribbons, they could eventually have a bigger stack than cadet officers who chose to short stack and this would not have been right. Obviously, the NB did not agree.

Would it be worthwhile to propose adding the "some" option back to cadets? Probably. Keep in mind it would need to go through your wing commander to be brought up to the National Board and would probably be sent to the uniform committee who is supposed to be developing a cohesive uniform policy/program for CAP.

Your wing commander cannot unilaterally authorize short stacking for cadets, since that is not in the authorized uniform modifications the wing commander can make.

So the option was there years ago, but was dropped because of confusion and/or disagreement at the National board? Haha, why am I not supprised 

[MIKE]

Yeah... back WIWAC or 'round about then, there was a C/Col who was either cadet of the year or NCAC chair who was noted for it.  As seen in a nationally published photo.

[cnitas]

Go ahead and send it through your CAC.  It can't hurt, just don't hold your breath.

Really, there should not be a ribbon for each achievement.  There is already an award (stripe) for each promotion.  Ribbons for only Curry + milestones would cut down greatly on the generalissimo look of cadet officers.

Just my opinion as a former cadet officer.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Go ahead and send it through your CAC.  It can't hurt, just don't hold your breath.

Really, there should not be a ribbon for each achievement.  There is already an award (stripe) for each promotion.  Ribbons for only Curry + milestones would cut down greatly on the generalissimo look of cadet officers.

Just my opinion as a former cadet officer.

Agreed, and like I had said, I am proud of my ribbons, but my whole concern arose when a former Army officer who just jokingly said to me in a nice way, You look like a little General. It was kinda' funny at the time, but I thought about it, and its a sad truth. Its kind of embarrasing. In CAP its cool, I can show off all I want to younger cadets, but from an outsider standpoint, it looks rather unprofessional... like we get ribbons for squating on a toilet or something...

[ßτε]

You are mistaken that female cadets have "all, some, or none." They also have "all or none."

[Zen Master Charlie]

yes, depending on the unifrom combination. But in one of them, they do have the option of all some or none.

[ßτε]

yes, depending on the unifrom combination. But in one of them, they do have the option of all some or none.

Which one, specifically?

[Mark_Wheeler]

yes, depending on the unifrom combination. But in one of them, they do have the option of all some or none.

CAPM 39-1 Page 27 (Female Cadet Long Sleeve Blouse)

Ribbons:  Worn centered on the left side between buttons and arm seam, even with to 1 1/2 inches
higher or lower than the first exposed button with 3 in a row.  Bottom of ribbons will be even with
bottom of nameplate.  Wear all or none.  All ribbons and devices must fall below the bottom tip of
the collar when worn as an outer garment.

CAPM 39-1 Page 29 (Female Cadet Short Sleeve Blouse)

Ribbons:  Worn centered on the left side between buttons and arm seam, even with to 1 1/2 inches
higher or lower than the first exposed button with 3 in a row.  Bottom of ribbons will be even with
bottom of nameplate.  Wear all or none. 

Mark

[Zen Master Charlie]

yes, depending on the unifrom combination. But in one of them, they do have the option of all some or none.

CAPM 39-1 Page 27 (Female Cadet Long Sleeve Blouse)

Ribbons:  Worn centered on the left side between buttons and arm seam, even with to 1 1/2 inches
higher or lower than the first exposed button with 3 in a row.  Bottom of ribbons will be even with
bottom of nameplate.  Wear all or none.  All ribbons and devices must fall below the bottom tip of
the collar when worn as an outer garment.

CAPM 39-1 Page 29 (Female Cadet Short Sleeve Blouse)

Ribbons:  Worn centered on the left side between buttons and arm seam, even with to 1 1/2 inches
higher or lower than the first exposed button with 3 in a row.  Bottom of ribbons will be even with
bottom of nameplate.  Wear all or none. 

Mark

The idea comes from Senior Member unifroms. All cadet must wear all ribbons... it sucks, but some unifroms senior officers may wear all some or none. Thats where my idea comes from.

[AlphaSigOU]

Until the reg is changed, cadets are only allowed 'all or none'.

There is an unwritten tradition in the Air Force which has also been adopted by CAP: enlisted wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, while officers generally do not. As a senior member, I have a full stack of ribbons on my service dress while I just wear a short stack of nine ribbons on the shirt.

Top row: decorations (Commander's Commendation, National Commander's Unit Citation, Unit Citation)
Second row: professional development, cadet milestone and service awards (Paul Garber, Amelia Earhart awards and the Red Service Ribbon)
Third row: activity ribbons (Find, Disaster Relief with V and encampment ribbons)

For more details regarding short stacking, read my monograph on 'The Proper Wear of CAP Ribbons' pinned at the top of this forum.

[Hawk200]

There is an unwritten tradition in the Air Force which has also been adopted by CAP: enlisted wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, while officers generally do not.

It would be more accurate to say "some" in CAP have adopted this. I haven't, and I know many that haven't either.

As military enlisted, I wore all ribbons on blue shirts while AF, and do so on Class B's in the Army.

Not everyonr attempts to completely emulate AF officers at every turn.

[a2capt]

Great.. more "unwritten" ... "rules" ..

If it's not published via the official channel, it's not a rule, a regulation or anything like it. OTOH, it's open to interpolation and takes wild turns.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

...National Board and would probably be sent to the uniform committee who is supposed to be developing a cohesive uniform policy/program for CAP.

Someone wake me when that happens.

A former squadron had several dual-status CAP/AFJROTC cadets, and they were allowed to wear ribbons from both.

I remember one cadet who had so many he had to wear them four to a row, and they still came up almost to his epaulettes.

In my experience, the average cadet ends up with considerably more ribbons than the average NPS CAP officer.

I do not think it is unreasonable to permit a "top-three" option for cadets.  I know the dual-status cadet I referred to earlier had a very difficult time keeping all those ribbons in proper order, clean and without fraying.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Until the reg is changed, cadets are only allowed 'all or none'.

There is an unwritten tradition in the Air Force which has also been adopted by CAP: enlisted wear ribbons on the light blue shirt, while officers generally do not. As a senior member, I have a full stack of ribbons on my service dress while I just wear a short stack of nine ribbons on the shirt.

Top row: decorations (Commander's Commendation, National Commander's Unit Citation, Unit Citation)
Second row: professional development, cadet milestone and service awards (Paul Garber, Amelia Earhart awards and the Red Service Ribbon)
Third row: activity ribbons (Find, Disaster Relief with V and encampment ribbons)

For more details regarding short stacking, read my monograph on 'The Proper Wear of CAP Ribbons' pinned at the top of this forum.

haha, I am well aware of this USAf tradition, I actually kind of agree with it. I met an AF Lt Col last week who wore his ribbons on his SS Blues, and I thought it was a little strange. Only later did I find out he was an enlisted man once   I personally prefer not to wear my ribbons, but some activities require them, such as NCC, or some encampments etc.

[Zen Master Charlie]

...National Board and would probably be sent to the uniform committee who is supposed to be developing a cohesive uniform policy/program for CAP.

Someone wake me when that happens.

A former squadron had several dual-status CAP/AFJROTC cadets, and they were allowed to wear ribbons from both.

I remember one cadet who had so many he had to wear them four to a row, and they still came up almost to his epaulettes.

In my experience, the average cadet ends up with considerably more ribbons than the average NPS CAP officer.

I do not think it is unreasonable to permit a "top-three" option for cadets.  I know the dual-status cadet I referred to earlier had a very difficult time keeping all those ribbons in proper order, clean and without fraying.

That brings up another good reason I want to have the ability to short stack. Were all volunteer members, and we pay CAP enough from our pockets as it is, some of us, a few dollars, and some of us, thousands of dollers, but when it comes to my ribbons, every time I get a new one or break a rack etc, I have to get a new rack, and taking ribbons off old racks and putting them on new racks they get frayed or bent. My last complete rack replacement cost $45... Its not like I just have that laying round, Im a poor student!!!!

[MSG Mac]

...National Board and would probably be sent to the uniform committee who is supposed to be developing a cohesive uniform policy/program for CAP.

A former squadron had several dual-status CAP/AFJROTC cadets, and they were allowed to wear ribbons from both.

I remember one cadet who had so many he had to wear them four to a row, and they still came up almost to his epaulettes.

They are only allowed to wear three (3) JROTC ribbons with the CAP uniform

[lordmonar]

That brings up another good reason I want to have the ability to short stack. Were all volunteer members, and we pay CAP enough from our pockets as it is, some of us, a few dollars, and some of us, thousands of dollers, but when it comes to my ribbons, every time I get a new one or break a rack etc, I have to get a new rack, and taking ribbons off old racks and putting them on new racks they get frayed or bent. My last complete rack replacement cost $45... Its not like I just have that laying round, Im a poor student!!!!

Are you saying you have the money to do the things you do that result in getting a new ribbon....but you don't have the $1 to buy the new ribbon? 

My philosophy on the "some" option has always been two fold.

1)  The AD Air Force does not do it.....nor should we.
2) Short stacking basically tells all the lower ranking members that their ribbons don't mean squat....because the higher ups are too lazy to bother to wear them.

Now I will agree that we have too many ribbons (especially the cadets).  We can eliminate a lot of cadet ribbons by doing away with all of the acheivemtn and milestone ribbons, except two.  Keep the Curry and the Spaatz.  That would eliminate the majority of the problem right there.

[Zen Master Charlie]

That brings up another good reason I want to have the ability to short stack. Were all volunteer members, and we pay CAP enough from our pockets as it is, some of us, a few dollars, and some of us, thousands of dollers, but when it comes to my ribbons, every time I get a new one or break a rack etc, I have to get a new rack, and taking ribbons off old racks and putting them on new racks they get frayed or bent. My last complete rack replacement cost $45... Its not like I just have that laying round, Im a poor student!!!!

Are you saying you have the money to do the things you do that result in getting a new ribbon....but you don't have the $1 to buy the new ribbon? 

Yes, infact I am... Lets see here now:
Search Mission (didnt cost me anything) - Find Ribbon $1
VFW NCO of the Year ribbon (All I had to do was my job, didnt cost me anything) - VFW Ribbon $1
Recruiting two friends (didnt cost me anything but my time to talk to them) - Recruiter Ribbon $1
240+ Hours of Community Service (thats just volunteering, no money there) - Community Service ribbon and attachments - $3
6 Years in CAP - Red Service Ribbon and attachment $3
Just being a good cadet (no money exchanged) - Commanders Commendation ribbon $1
Being ina great Wing that all squadrons got nationally recognized - Unit Citation $1
/\       /\          /\               /\            /\                    /\               /\        - National Commanders Unit Citation $1
All of my acheivment and milestone ribbons (all I had to do was take a couple tests, no money here) - $11 plus attachments $2
Not to mention that ribbon racks as big as I wear arent cheap either!

Yes a few of them involve paying for the activity, such as encampment or NCSA's but I dont pay for those, Thats what parents are for! 

So I'd say 90% of my ribbons were a result of a free activity for me, the other 10% are special activities. Hey, maybe I can just wear my special activities ribbons! NOT...

[Zen Master Charlie]

Now I will agree that we have too many ribbons (especially the cadets).  We can eliminate a lot of cadet ribbons by doing away with all of the acheivemtn and milestone ribbons, except two.  Keep the Curry and the Spaatz.  That would eliminate the majority of the problem right there.

I do agree for the most part, but I would sooner keep mitchell as well, because its a big step, but I'd definatly eliminate all of the achievment ribbons, and the erheart eaker and wright brothers.

But we need to stop these idiots wanting to add a NRA shooting ribbon to the list, WE DONT NEED ANY MORE RIBBONS!!! 

[Eclipse]

That brings up another good reason I want to have the ability to short stack. Were all volunteer members, and we pay CAP enough from our pockets as it is, some of us, a few dollars, and some of us, thousands of dollers, but when it comes to my ribbons, every time I get a new one or break a rack etc, I have to get a new rack, and taking ribbons off old racks and putting them on new racks they get frayed or bent. My last complete rack replacement cost $45... Its not like I just have that laying round, Im a poor student!!!!

Are you saying you have the money to do the things you do that result in getting a new ribbon....but you don't have the $1 to buy the new ribbon? 

Yes, infact I am... Lets see here now:
Search Mission (didnt cost me anything) - Find Ribbon $1
VFW NCO of the Year ribbon (All I had to do was my job, didnt cost me anything) - VFW Ribbon $1
Recruiting two friends (didnt cost me anything but my time to talk to them) - Recruiter Ribbon $1
240+ Hours of Community Service (thats just volunteering, no money there) - Community Service ribbon and attachments - $3
6 Years in CAP - Red Service Ribbon and attachment $3
Just being a good cadet (no money exchanged) - Commanders Commendation ribbon $1
Being ina great Wing that all squadrons got nationally recognized - Unit Citation $1
/\       /\          /\               /\            /\                    /\               /\        - National Commanders Unit Citation $1
All of my acheivment and milestone ribbons (all I had to do was take a couple tests, no money here) - $11 plus attachments $2
Not to mention that ribbon racks as big as I wear arent cheap either!

Yes a few of them involve paying for the activity, such as encampment or NCSA's but I dont pay for those, Thats what parents are for! 

So I'd say 90% of my ribbons were a result of a free activity for me, the other 10% are special activities. Hey, maybe I can just wear my special activities ribbons! NOT...

[lordmonar]

Now I will agree that we have too many ribbons (especially the cadets).  We can eliminate a lot of cadet ribbons by doing away with all of the acheivemtn and milestone ribbons, except two.  Keep the Curry and the Spaatz.  That would eliminate the majority of the problem right there.

I do agree for the most part, but I would sooner keep mitchell as well, because its a big step, but I'd definatly eliminate all of the achievment ribbons, and the erheart eaker and wright brothers.

But we need to stop these idiots wanting to add a NRA shooting ribbon to the list, WE DONT NEED ANY MORE RIBBONS!!! 

You are calling me an idiot. 

I would rather have a ribbon for firearms training then the god awful dangley thing.

As for as "Too many ribbons"....I would have to disagree.  We have a good balance of ribbons for the most part (except all the acheivement ribbons).

Let's analyse what our cadets receive.

Recruiting......this is a good thing (we could roll the cadet and senior into one ribbon)
Encampment.....this is a good thing...not all cadets go to encampment....or go to multiple encampments
NCSA......again this is a good thing...not all cadets go to any NCSAs
CAC........extra duty and performance should be rewarded
NCGC.....good thing.....could be combined with the NCC
NCC.......see above
IACE.......I guess we could kill that one as a NCSA....but it is kind of prestigious.
Community Service.....I think this is a good one.
Homeland Security.....not many cadets can get this one.
Disaster Releif......again I think it is a pretty good one....and not many cadets get it.
SAR.....yes let's ax this one!  (please note the sarcams)
Find....see SAR
Red Service.....I guess this one can go...but we really do want to recognise longetvity.
VFW, AFSA, AFA.........We can loose all three of these IMHO.....replace them with a CAP cadet of the year award.
Curry-SPAATZ.....keep the Curry (call it the cadet training ribbon...add triangle for each mile stone)....Keep the Spaatz.(that axes 11 ribbons right there)
The rest are all unit and or personal decorations.....which ones do you suggest we kill?

[CAPC/officer125]

...snip...

I would rather have a ribbon for firearms training then the god awful dangley thing.

As for as "Too many ribbons"....I would have to disagree.  We have a good balance of ribbons for the most part (except all the acheivement ribbons).

Let's analyse what our cadets receive.
...snip...
Red Service.....I guess this one can go...but we really do want to recognise longetvity.
VFW, AFSA, AFA.........We can loose all three of these IMHO.....replace them with a CAP cadet of the year award.
Curry-SPAATZ.....keep the Curry (call it the cadet training ribbon...add triangle for each mile stone)....Keep the Spaatz.(that axes 11 ribbons right there)
The rest are all unit and or personal decorations.....which ones do you suggest we kill?

As a female, I agree readily with gaining a ribbon for NRA qualifications. Or at least let the females wear the dangly thingy in the same position as the males.

As far as the ribbons, I agree with lordmonar on the parts that I snipped. However, the ones that are left I do see a purpose in.
-Red service ought to be kept because at a quick glance you can tell how long a person has been in, if they are keeping that ribbon up to date. There is nothing cooler in my mind then seeing a senior member with the "25" attachment or multiple devices attached to their Red Service. It show dedication to me.
-VFW, AFSA, AFA ribbons ought to be kept as well. This may just be the recipient in me speaking but having these ribbons offers the opportunity for cadets that do not have them to ask about them and possibly try to get them themselves. I have had several cadets ask me what the AFA stands for and the look on their face when I tell them what it is says it all.
-I think that we should keep the Curry, Wright Brothers, Mitchell, Earhart, Eaker, and Spaatz ribbons. Each of these marks the end of a phase and the beginning of the next. Plus the "enlisted" cadet will then be used to only receiving a ribbon with the milestone awards instead of with every achievement once they reach officer.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

They are only allowed to wear three (3) JROTC ribbons with the CAP uniform

Per CAP regs, or JROTC regs?

This was back in the mid-'90s...a lot about CAP was different then, to put it mildly.

This cadet had more fruit salad than Colin Powell and Curtis LeMay put together.

[PHall]

They are only allowed to wear three (3) JROTC ribbons with the CAP uniform

Per CAP regs, or JROTC regs?

This was back in the mid-'90s...a lot about CAP was different then, to put it mildly.

This cadet had more fruit salad than Colin Powell and Curtis LeMay put together.

It's been in the CAP regs (39-1) since at least 1990.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Let's analyse what our cadets receive.

Recruiting......this is a good thing (we could roll the cadet and senior into one ribbon)
Encampment.....this is a good thing...not all cadets go to encampment....or go to multiple encampments
NCSA......again this is a good thing...not all cadets go to any NCSAs
CAC........extra duty and performance should be rewarded
NCGC.....good thing.....could be combined with the NCC
NCC.......see above
IACE.......I guess we could kill that one as a NCSA....but it is kind of prestigious.
Community Service.....I think this is a good one.
Homeland Security.....not many cadets can get this one.
Disaster Releif......again I think it is a pretty good one....and not many cadets get it.
SAR.....yes let's ax this one!  (please note the sarcams)
Find....see SAR
Red Service.....I guess this one can go...but we really do want to recognise longetvity.
VFW, AFSA, AFA.........We can loose all three of these IMHO.....replace them with a CAP cadet of the year award.
Curry-SPAATZ.....keep the Curry (call it the cadet training ribbon...add triangle for each mile stone)....Keep the Spaatz.(that axes 11 ribbons right there)
The rest are all unit and or personal decorations.....which ones do you suggest we kill?

No I'm not calling you an idiot, that was a little over board, im sorry, i just seriously dont want any more ribbons and if that were one, id be wearing it too... However, if we did like you listed above (which I agree with 100%) then I'd be ok with a shooting ribbon.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Oh god... Im going to Blue Beret in a couple of weeks... I've heard you could potentially walk away with a few ribbons and or attatchments... is this true? 

[JK657]

Are you trying to build your post count with these random posts?

[titanII]

Are you trying to build your post count with these random posts?

that seems to be the intention. or something like that

[Zen Master Charlie]

Are you trying to build your post count with these random posts?

that seems to be the intention. or something like that

Alright, just to confirm that that wasnt my intention, and I really dont care, I've been a member of CAPTalk for about 3 years now... I only get on here to see what other people have to say. Logically now, doncha think If I really cared, after 3 years I would have more than 50 some odd posts? really? 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have to short stack one way or another if I get another ribbon. As is, I have to stack four across on my jacket, or else not everything will fit. On my shirt I only wear two badges. This is how I will always do it, until the day that they tell me I can't wear my CIB, because until then, it won't be coming off.

[ol'fido]

Instead of the VFW, AFA, and AFSA ribbons, how about we have a cadet recognition ribbon kind of like the AF does. This could also include COY type awards.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Instead of the VFW, AFA, and AFSA ribbons, how about we have a cadet recognition ribbon kind of like the AF does. This could also include COY type awards.

Even as a recipiant of one of the VFW awards, I have no objection to that! 

[elipod]

Agreed, and like I had said, I am proud of my ribbons, but my whole concern arose when a former Army officer who just jokingly said to me in a nice way, You look like a little General. It was kinda' funny at the time, but I thought about it, and its a sad truth. Its kind of embarrasing. In CAP its cool, I can show off all I want to younger cadets, but from an outsider standpoint, it looks rather unprofessional... like we get ribbons for squating on a toilet or something...

I saw this while reading this thread. I have to disagree with the part that says

" like we get ribbons for squating on a toilet or something..."

Would you really call the WEEK of volunteer time, that we take off our jobs, to help run an Encampment or activity, 'squatting on a toilet or something...' ?

What about the countless hours of studying and essay / speech / SDA writing, that goes into the milestones. Is that really, 'squatting on a toilet or something...'

Think about it.

[a2capt]

Yup.. outstanding attitude. Good luck with that.

[CAPC/officer125]

Agreed, and like I had said, I am proud of my ribbons, but my whole concern arose when a former Army officer who just jokingly said to me in a nice way, You look like a little General. It was kinda' funny at the time, but I thought about it, and its a sad truth. Its kind of embarrasing. In CAP its cool, I can show off all I want to younger cadets, but from an outsider standpoint, it looks rather unprofessional... like we get ribbons for squating on a toilet or something...

I have had this happen to me, but I was talking with cadets in the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets. They made a comment that alot of the JROTC cadets look like "Mexican generals". I do agree that as cadets in CAP get up there in the ranks we start having a a really big fruit salad on our chest, but I would like to point out that we aren't as bad as some JROTCs. It seems you get a ribbon for showing up to class each day the way the talk about their ribbons (they get them for good grades, good PT scores, good attendance). While I am not saying we don't need to get rid of any ribbons (as per my previous post), I would like to point out that we do more to earn our ribbons then just show up (with exception to the Red Service ribbon)

[Zen Master Charlie]

Agreed, and like I had said, I am proud of my ribbons, but my whole concern arose when a former Army officer who just jokingly said to me in a nice way, You look like a little General. It was kinda' funny at the time, but I thought about it, and its a sad truth. Its kind of embarrasing. In CAP its cool, I can show off all I want to younger cadets, but from an outsider standpoint, it looks rather unprofessional... like we get ribbons for squating on a toilet or something...

I saw this while reading this thread. I have to disagree with the part that says

" like we get ribbons for squating on a toilet or something..."

Would you really call the WEEK of volunteer time, that we take off our jobs, to help run an Encampment or activity, 'squatting on a toilet or something...' ?

What about the countless hours of studying and essay / speech / SDA writing, that goes into the milestones. Is that really, 'squatting on a toilet or something...'

Think about it.

Read through it again. I dont personally think that the weeks or months we spend planning things is squatting on the toilet. But I feel like an outsider (mainly ex-military) might think something similar. That was in refferance t the ex-col telling me i looked like a little general. Its kind of like when i see a young marine with one strip who has more ribbons than some spaatz cadets, I cant help but wonder, what the crap do they get ribbons for?

Im sorry if I didnt make that clear, but to be sure, I dont think that, but I know others might.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Yup.. outstanding attitude. Good luck with that.

Haha, you and Eclips just crack me up, you two are so similar. Read my response to the other poster about the whole "squatting on the toilet" thing, and become enlightened. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I saw this while reading this thread. I have to disagree with the part that says

" like we get ribbons for squating on a toilet or something..."

Plus, it's not true.  I know from many, many hours of supervising cadet testing, including for milestones.

I think the chest candy you get, and I don't like saying this as it reflects badly on CAP, depends on what squadron/wing you're in, and who you know at wing.  I've seen second lieutenants with 3-4 Commander's Commendations because they hold a wing position.

OK, to blow my own hot air for a bit.  What you see in my sig line is everything I have earned in CAP, and that is as a Captain with service from 1993-2001, 2003-2006 and 2009 to present.  There are breaks because of personal reasons, including a lot of moving.

My first squadron was a composite (really should have been a cadet) squadron (oversized flight, really) that had to drive like 70 miles to train with another unit.

My second one was a flying club senior squadron that didn't give a rip about uniforms, let alone chest candy (meaning: nobody got put in for commendations/ribbons unless they were Find, DR, etc.)...though I did get my Observer wings through them (actually through wing Observer schools).

My third one was a nonflying composite squadron where I got my Commander's Commendation, and I was utterly gobsmacked to get that.  I didn't know I was going to get it until a Wing conference.

My current unit is the best, and most active, unit I have belonged to, but unless I get another surprise like the Commander's Commendation, I don't see being awarded much else except the Garber that should be coming through in the next few months.  The vast majority of what I do is behind the scenes and isn't much except making sure the unit functions as smoothly as possible, as far as I am able, and that's not really the kind of thing to earn MSA's, ESA's, DSM's or Achievement Awards, really.

As I said on another thread, by my calculations I should be eligible for my second, if not third, clasp for my Red Service Ribbon, but I would feel somewhat foolish putting myself in for it...that's just me and my neurosis personality quirks (look up "tall poppy syndrome").

I know it's much different on the cadet side, as they have so many achievements that come with a ribbon.

[davidsinn]

Yup.. outstanding attitude. Good luck with that.

Haha, you and Eclips just crack me up, you two are so similar. Read my response to the other poster about the whole "squatting on the toilet" thing, and become enlightened. 

The fact that three different people have mentioned your attitude sucks should be a clue...

[elipod]

How does my attitude suck? Please enlighten me. I'm not being disrespectful. I'm curious, concerned, and open to criticism.

[davidsinn]

How does my attitude suck? Please enlighten me. I'm not being disrespectful. I'm curious, concerned, and open to criticism.

Who said your attitude sucks? I was referring to Zen Master Charlie. He's the one that's been throwing a hissy fit when he doesn't get his way and generally acting disrespectful and arrogant.

[elipod]

Whew. Okay.

[James Shaw]

This thread seems to have started off with a sense that we should be "embarassed" about the uniform you wear or the achievements that someone has earned and worked for. Why should anyone feel embarassed about their individual achievements, if it really bothers the person to wear their recognition for their or the groups hard earned work then the best solution would be to quit doing the work and go somewhere else. If you are embarassed when an Army Officer or anyone else demeans your achievements and work then maybe you are focusing on the wrong thing. Why should any CAP member, no matter if they are a cadet or senior be embarassed about their volunteer work and recognition. This seems like more of a personal situation than a real concern.

I follow the regs to the T per CAP regs.

One of my favorite quotes of all time "No one can make you feel inferior unless you allow them", Eleanor Roosevelt

I do not consider myself any better than others when I am in a group of fellow CAP members.
I do not consider myself any less than others when I am in a group of fellow CAP members.

I would like to know; What is so embarassing about wearing what you have earned?

[Ned]

I would like to know; What is so embarassing about wearing what you have earned?

Nothing, as long as it is appropriate to the occasion, and appears professional and aesthetically pleasing.

And that's where reasonable people can differ.

Some people feel there is a time and a place to wear all possible earned badges and awards, and times and places where it is not appropriate.  Just as it would look silly to wear ribbons on a utility uniform in the field, it is always appropriate to wear all earned awards on formal occasions like a CAP banquet.

It is probably in routine duty situations that people most often disagree.  Some feel full ribbons and bling is appropriate for office work on a meeting night; others thing the work enviornment calls for minimum bling - usually just required items like grade, nameplate, and aviation/duty badges.  I tend to fall in the latter camp.

And most people feel that it is possible for a given uniform to have too many awards and ribbons.  That's the whole cliche about "Latin American Generals." 

It's all about striking a balance and trying to achieve consensus.

And Goodness knows, we will never achieve consensus when discussing uniforms on CAPTalk!

[Grumpy]

Amen, Ned

[James Shaw]

I would like to know; What is so embarassing about wearing what you have earned?

Nothing, as long as it is appropriate to the occasion, and appears professional and aesthetically pleasing.

Agree 100%

And that's where reasonable people can differ.

Some people feel there is a time and a place to wear all possible earned badges and awards, and times and places where it is not appropriate.  Just as it would look silly to wear ribbons on a utility uniform in the field, it is always appropriate to wear all earned awards on formal occasions like a CAP banquet.

Agree 100%, I personally do not wear the PAO, CP, or AE when I am functioning as a Historian. Those are not my primary duties at this time. I dont wear them all on the dress uniform either. At this moment I am a Historian, I dont see the need to wear CP, AE or the like when I am not in that current assignment.

It is probably in routine duty situations that people most often disagree.  Some feel full ribbons and bling is appropriate for office work on a meeting night; others thing the work enviornment calls for minimum bling - usually just required items like grade, nameplate, and aviation/duty badges.  I tend to fall in the latter camp.

Agree 100%, I am a minimulist when it comes to normal duty wear.
And most people feel that it is possible for a given uniform to have too many awards and ribbons.  That's the whole cliche about "Latin American Generals." 

It's all about striking a balance and trying to achieve consensus.

Agree 100%, on striking the balance. I am not saying we should wear every badge, ribbon, or pair of wings everytime we put the uniform on. I just wonder why some would be "embarassed" about their hard work and recognition they receive for it?

And Goodness knows, we will never achieve consensus when discussing uniforms on CAPTalk!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Just as it would look silly to wear ribbons on a utility uniform in the field...

Sir, the Young Marines do it.   

it is always appropriate to wear all earned awards on formal occasions like a CAP banquet.

Some years ago I knew a Lieutenant Colonel, with combat service in Korea, whom I never saw wear anything on his blue service dress other than his pilot's wings.

It is probably in routine duty situations that people most often disagree.  Some feel full ribbons and bling is appropriate for office work on a meeting night; others thing the work enviornment calls for minimum bling - usually just required items like grade, nameplate, and aviation/duty badges.  I tend to fall in the latter camp.

Same camp.

Our cadets wear all theirs, but officers usually don't, or if they do, it's often the "top three."  I usually just wear Observer wings along with grade/nameplate when required; most often you'll see me in BBDU's and/or the blue utility jumpsuit, depending on weather and UOD.

And most people feel that it is possible for a given uniform to have too many awards and ribbons. 

Heresy, sir, heresy!!!!

And Goodness knows, we will never achieve consensus when discussing uniforms on CAPTalk!

Certainly you jest!

[titanII]

Sir, the Young Marines do it.   

And I think it looks silly. Also I would question the purpose of wearing dress uniform articles on your utility uniform. One wouldn't wear a tie or a service cap with BDU's.

That reminds me:

Yeah, 'cause the Kaiser won all those medals by himself.   

[Eclipse]

This thread seems to have started off with a sense that we should be "embarassed" about the uniform you wear or the achievements that someone has earned and worked for. Why should anyone feel embarassed about their individual achievements, if it really bothers the person to wear their recognition for their or the groups hard earned work then the best solution would be to quit doing the work and go somewhere else. If you are embarassed when an Army Officer or anyone else demeans your achievements and work then maybe you are focusing on the wrong thing. Why should any CAP member, no matter if they are a cadet or senior be embarassed about their volunteer work and recognition. This seems like more of a personal situation than a real concern.

I follow the regs to the T per CAP regs.

One of my favorite quotes of all time "No one can make you feel inferior unless you allow them", Eleanor Roosevelt

I do not consider myself any better than others when I am in a group of fellow CAP members.
I do not consider myself any less than others when I am in a group of fellow CAP members.

I would like to know; What is so embarassing about wearing what you have earned?

Excellent post. 

I could not begin to care what someone from another service, especially someone misinformed about my service, thinks about my uniform,
especially in light of the fact that I am standing next to a (presumably) paid professional on my own nickel.

I earned "whatever" by working within the parameter of my organization, they think I did a good job and gave me "whatever".

"Anything else?"

[MIKE]

I dunno, I look at cadet Caldwell's huge sig and think... he could remove 10 ribbons from that rack and as long as he wears the pocket rocket, it tells the same story but is a little less obnoxious.

[lordmonar]

. But I feel like an outsider (mainly ex-military) might think something similar. That was in refferance t the ex-col telling me i looked like a little general.

Well to be blunt....screw them.   We don't wear ribbons to impress outsiders....nor should we care too much about what they think.....because it is not a fair comparison.

Of course any cadet with more ribbons than a general....would look silly if generals and cadets were the same thing.  But they are not.

If we are going to campare cadets with "real military"....then any cadet with even one ribbon wouild look silly as the lowerest AB fresh from BMTS is better then most cadets up to and including some Spaatzens.  So no one should have ribbons at all by that reasoning.

[ProdigalJim]

Yup.. outstanding attitude. Good luck with that.

Haha, you and Eclips just crack me up, you two are so similar. Read my response to the other poster about the whole "squatting on the toilet" thing, and become enlightened. 

The fact that three different people have mentioned your attitude sucks should be a clue...

Make it four.

Cadet, you haven't said much about yourself here in this thread, but what you HAVE said ... and the behavior you've engaged in ... speaks volumes. Snidely telling someone to "become enlightened" (Especially someone to whom you would be obligated to render a salute if you encountered him in real life)? Responding to observations that you're acting like a dork by declaring it's "an Internet forum" so it's all okay? Not to mention failing to take the time and effort to respond when people have offered helpful, on-topic replies to the original post that you made, and thinking that mispellings and exclamation points compensate for poor reasoning.

You're right on one thing: David and Eclipse (that's with an 'e,' by the way, hawkeye) are indeed similar. They're adults. You are not.

I was a cadet officer just under 30 years ago. CAC, like you. Took my Earhart, too. Encampment staff. Etc. I taught cadets under my command that everyone, from C/Airman (that's with one stripe, rather than one strip) to superior officers, deserved human respect. Those who follow you will do so willingly and cheerfully if they believe in you and leadership, and one way to make that happen is to be professional IN EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR MILITARY BEARING. Declaring that you don't need to be professional here because "it's an Internet forum" is, well, unprofessional.

Oh, and there's a Code of Conduct for this little Internet forum. Here are two salient portions from it:

>>All members will respect the opinion and dignity of other members, whether or not they may be present.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and certainly discourse on varying opinions is excellent. However, members will not attack others based on their opinions and beliefs, regardless of whether they agree or not.   <<

>> Keep in mind that a certain level of professionalism must be maintained on the discussion board.  <<

You're young, and brash, and probably pretty high-speed in your unit. I get it. But go back and re-read your own posts with an open mind...consider it a Leadership exercise. Think honestly about how people might *interpret* your meaning. And then re-consider the attitude you bring to your posts here.

As they say on the radio here, "Not a sermon, just a thought."

[lordmonar]

Amen, Ned

+1

[lordmonar]

Sir, the Young Marines do it.   

And I think it looks silly. Also I would question the purpose of wearing dress uniform articles on your utility uniform. One wouldn't wear a tie or a service cap with BDU's.

That is the only uniform that Young Marines wear IIRC.  So they have a field version and a non field version.  Not that I agree with it....but it is not like the YM's are sporting ribbons while they are out doing the compass course or doing PT.

Just so you know.

[arajca]

Sir, the Young Marines do it.   

And I think it looks silly. Also I would question the purpose of wearing dress uniform articles on your utility uniform. One wouldn't wear a tie or a service cap with BDU's.

That is the only uniform that Young Marines wear IIRC.  So they have a field version and a non field version.  Not that I agree with it....but it is not like the YM's are sporting ribbons while they are out doing the compass course or doing PT.

Just so you know.

Actually, I saw them wearing their ribbons on their bdus while working at a disaster scene.

[Zen Master Charlie]

How does my attitude suck? Please enlighten me. I'm not being disrespectful. I'm curious, concerned, and open to criticism.

Who said your attitude sucks? I was referring to Zen Master Charlie. He's the one that's been throwing a hissy fit when he doesn't get his way and generally acting disrespectful and arrogant.

I dont throw a hissy fit when I dont get my way... this is an internet forum, no one gets their way, everyone has an opinion. I just get frustrated when people have to ask for a citation on everything, and believe nothing that anyone says. Its arrogance is what it is. Everyone on CAPTalk thinks their right, and everyone has good points, but its only on rare occasions does everyone agree on anything. This forum is useful in some ways, but seems to get a little out of hand in others. People pulling rank and saying they are more experianced than others and telling everyone their wrong. Its kinda silly. all I can do is  :clap: those who think they can pull rank on-line    who knows, I could be a randome kid who was never in CAP, and you could be a C/AB, and he could be a C/Col, and she could be a General, and and and... 

[Zen Master Charlie]

This thread seems to have started off with a sense that we should be "embarassed" about the uniform you wear or the achievements that someone has earned and worked for. Why should anyone feel embarassed about their individual achievements, if it really bothers the person to wear their recognition for their or the groups hard earned work then the best solution would be to quit doing the work and go somewhere else. If you are embarassed when an Army Officer or anyone else demeans your achievements and work then maybe you are focusing on the wrong thing. Why should any CAP member, no matter if they are a cadet or senior be embarassed about their volunteer work and recognition. This seems like more of a personal situation than a real concern.

I follow the regs to the T per CAP regs.

One of my favorite quotes of all time "No one can make you feel inferior unless you allow them", Eleanor Roosevelt

I do not consider myself any better than others when I am in a group of fellow CAP members.
I do not consider myself any less than others when I am in a group of fellow CAP members.

I would like to know; What is so embarassing about wearing what you have earned?

I respect your last comment "I do not consider..." If only everyone were like that. but ofcourse you get C/2dLt on Power trips, or former military officers who think they are god... well you get the point. If only if only.

As for the embarrasing thing, that was not the focus of my question. That was one minor factor that lead into my question. I am very proud of my ribbons, and I love showing them off, but when they are so large, they get in the way, well, they kind of annoy me. The situation where a former Col in the USAF told me I looked like a little general was a little embarrasing, no matter how you look at it, you know the real wording behind their joke was 'holy crap you guys get a lot of ribbons in CAP.' Thats what I think when I see the Young Marines!    But it doesnt get to me, liek i said, one tiny factor. 

[Zen Master Charlie]

Yup.. outstanding attitude. Good luck with that.

Haha, you and Eclips just crack me up, you two are so similar. Read my response to the other poster about the whole "squatting on the toilet" thing, and become enlightened. 

The fact that three different people have mentioned your attitude sucks should be a clue...

Make it four.

Cadet, you haven't said much about yourself here in this thread, but what you HAVE said ... and the behavior you've engaged in ... speaks volumes. Snidely telling someone to "become enlightened" (Especially someone to whom you would be obligated to render a salute if you encountered him in real life)? Responding to observations that you're acting like a dork by declaring it's "an Internet forum" so it's all okay? Not to mention failing to take the time and effort to respond when people have offered helpful, on-topic replies to the original post that you made, and thinking that mispellings and exclamation points compensate for poor reasoning.

You're right on one thing: David and Eclipse (that's with an 'e,' by the way, hawkeye) are indeed similar. They're adults. You are not.

I was a cadet officer just under 30 years ago. CAC, like you. Took my Earhart, too. Encampment staff. Etc. I taught cadets under my command that everyone, from C/Airman (that's with one stripe, rather than one strip) to superior officers, deserved human respect. Those who follow you will do so willingly and cheerfully if they believe in you and leadership, and one way to make that happen is to be professional IN EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR MILITARY BEARING. Declaring that you don't need to be professional here because "it's an Internet forum" is, well, unprofessional.

Oh, and there's a Code of Conduct for this little Internet forum. Here are two salient portions from it:

>>All members will respect the opinion and dignity of other members, whether or not they may be present.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and certainly discourse on varying opinions is excellent. However, members will not attack others based on their opinions and beliefs, regardless of whether they agree or not.   <<

>> Keep in mind that a certain level of professionalism must be maintained on the discussion board.  <<

You're young, and brash, and probably pretty high-speed in your unit. I get it. But go back and re-read your own posts with an open mind...consider it a Leadership exercise. Think honestly about how people might *interpret* your meaning. And then re-consider the attitude you bring to your posts here.

As they say on the radio here, "Not a sermon, just a thought."

I'm just gonna say one simple thing here. In somewyas your right, and I agree maybe some of my actions are a little over the top, but we are on an internet forum and no one can prove anyone is anyone. If I met Eclipse and he were a Col, yeah he'd get my salute and yessirs, but on here, I dont REALLY  know who he is. As for your comments about me being childish, and 'not an adult' is very hypocritial of everything you said above. I'm not accusing you or eclipse of anything. we just get in some heated discussions, who doesnt. But to insult me as you did above, thats hypocracy my friend. And shows me you have no true knowledge of what you are speaking. If you have something to say to me, you need to try again without being so insulting, and if you can do this, I will listen to what you have to say. thank you in advance.

[spaatzmom]

Yup.. outstanding attitude. Good luck with that.

Haha, you and Eclips just crack me up, you two are so similar. Read my response to the other poster about the whole "squatting on the toilet" thing, and become enlightened. 

The fact that three different people have mentioned your attitude sucks should be a clue...

Make it four.

Cadet, you haven't said much about yourself here in this thread, but what you HAVE said ... and the behavior you've engaged in ... speaks volumes. Snidely telling someone to "become enlightened" (Especially someone to whom you would be obligated to render a salute if you encountered him in real life)? Responding to observations that you're acting like a dork by declaring it's "an Internet forum" so it's all okay? Not to mention failing to take the time and effort to respond when people have offered helpful, on-topic replies to the original post that you made, and thinking that mispellings and exclamation points compensate for poor reasoning.

You're right on one thing: David and Eclipse (that's with an 'e,' by the way, hawkeye) are indeed similar. They're adults. You are not.

I was a cadet officer just under 30 years ago. CAC, like you. Took my Earhart, too. Encampment staff. Etc. I taught cadets under my command that everyone, from C/Airman (that's with one stripe, rather than one strip) to superior officers, deserved human respect. Those who follow you will do so willingly and cheerfully if they believe in you and leadership, and one way to make that happen is to be professional IN EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR MILITARY BEARING. Declaring that you don't need to be professional here because "it's an Internet forum" is, well, unprofessional.

Oh, and there's a Code of Conduct for this little Internet forum. Here are two salient portions from it:

>>All members will respect the opinion and dignity of other members, whether or not they may be present.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and certainly discourse on varying opinions is excellent. However, members will not attack others based on their opinions and beliefs, regardless of whether they agree or not.   <<

>> Keep in mind that a certain level of professionalism must be maintained on the discussion board.  <<

You're young, and brash, and probably pretty high-speed in your unit. I get it. But go back and re-read your own posts with an open mind...consider it a Leadership exercise. Think honestly about how people might *interpret* your meaning. And then re-consider the attitude you bring to your posts here.

As they say on the radio here, "Not a sermon, just a thought."

I'm just gonna say one simple thing here. In somewyas your right, and I agree maybe some of my actions are a little over the top, but we are on an internet forum and no one can prove anyone is anyone. If I met Eclipse and he were a Col, yeah he'd get my salute and yessirs, but on here, I dont REALLY  know who he is. As for your comments about me being childish, and 'not an adult' is very hypocritial of everything you said above. I'm not accusing you or eclipse of anything. we just get in some heated discussions, who doesnt. But to insult me as you did above, thats hypocracy my friend. And shows me you have no true knowledge of what you are speaking. If you have something to say to me, you need to try again without being so insulting, and if you can do this, I will listen to what you have to say. thank you in advance.

WOW just WOW!!!!   What an example of the pot calling the kettle black.   This just might/ should be enough to get you suspended/ banned.  Is it really worth it to continue with the yes childish rants you have been spewing?  Only you can decide, but don't whine when it happens, just a huge warning.  I sure do hope the mods are keeping up with this, it has continued for too long.

[Zen Master Charlie]

Yup.. outstanding attitude. Good luck with that.

Haha, you and Eclips just crack me up, you two are so similar. Read my response to the other poster about the whole "squatting on the toilet" thing, and become enlightened. 

The fact that three different people have mentioned your attitude sucks should be a clue...

Make it four.

Cadet, you haven't said much about yourself here in this thread, but what you HAVE said ... and the behavior you've engaged in ... speaks volumes. Snidely telling someone to "become enlightened" (Especially someone to whom you would be obligated to render a salute if you encountered him in real life)? Responding to observations that you're acting like a dork by declaring it's "an Internet forum" so it's all okay? Not to mention failing to take the time and effort to respond when people have offered helpful, on-topic replies to the original post that you made, and thinking that mispellings and exclamation points compensate for poor reasoning.

You're right on one thing: David and Eclipse (that's with an 'e,' by the way, hawkeye) are indeed similar. They're adults. You are not.

I was a cadet officer just under 30 years ago. CAC, like you. Took my Earhart, too. Encampment staff. Etc. I taught cadets under my command that everyone, from C/Airman (that's with one stripe, rather than one strip) to superior officers, deserved human respect. Those who follow you will do so willingly and cheerfully if they believe in you and leadership, and one way to make that happen is to be professional IN EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR MILITARY BEARING. Declaring that you don't need to be professional here because "it's an Internet forum" is, well, unprofessional.

Oh, and there's a Code of Conduct for this little Internet forum. Here are two salient portions from it:

>>All members will respect the opinion and dignity of other members, whether or not they may be present.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and certainly discourse on varying opinions is excellent. However, members will not attack others based on their opinions and beliefs, regardless of whether they agree or not.   <<

>> Keep in mind that a certain level of professionalism must be maintained on the discussion board.  <<

You're young, and brash, and probably pretty high-speed in your unit. I get it. But go back and re-read your own posts with an open mind...consider it a Leadership exercise. Think honestly about how people might *interpret* your meaning. And then re-consider the attitude you bring to your posts here.

As they say on the radio here, "Not a sermon, just a thought."

I'm just gonna say one simple thing here. In somewyas your right, and I agree maybe some of my actions are a little over the top, but we are on an internet forum and no one can prove anyone is anyone. If I met Eclipse and he were a Col, yeah he'd get my salute and yessirs, but on here, I dont REALLY  know who he is. As for your comments about me being childish, and 'not an adult' is very hypocritial of everything you said above. I'm not accusing you or eclipse of anything. we just get in some heated discussions, who doesnt. But to insult me as you did above, thats hypocracy my friend. And shows me you have no true knowledge of what you are speaking. If you have something to say to me, you need to try again without being so insulting, and if you can do this, I will listen to what you have to say. thank you in advance.

WOW just WOW!!!!   What an example of the pot calling the kettle black.   This just might/ should be enough to get you suspended/ banned.  Is it really worth it to continue with the yes childish rants you have been spewing?  Only you can decide, but don't whine when it happens, just a huge warning.  I sure do hope the mods are keeping up with this, it has continued for too long.

Hey now, I just call it as I see it. If I get booted, then wooptie doo... oh well. So it is. But If I get booted with the justification of pointing out that not everyone is so high and mighty as they think they are on a simple forum, atleast I can sleep at night. Now, I'm not saying this to you, but it seems to me that a lot of people dish out just as much as they call out on others. Its kinda funny honestly. But w/e, its just a forum, nothing I can do.

And I do hope the Mods are keeping up with this, and Im pretty sure they are.  I'm sorry guys If I have done anything wrong, but honestly, who hasnt. Im just as guilty as im sure dozens of other people. I started a simple forum with a simple question, and all I get is judgement and insults. Honestly why shouldnt I have the right to defend myself eh? 

[Eclipse]

I dont throw a hissy fit when I dont get my way...

Yes, you actually do.

this is an internet forum, no one gets their way, everyone has an opinion.

Not exactly. There are opinions and there are facts.  Any opinion is open to discussion, facts are not.  You seem to be confused on the
difference, and frustrated when people who know the program and can cite regulations get in the way of your opinions.

I just get frustrated when people have to ask for a citation on everything, and believe nothing that anyone says. Its arrogance is what it is.
No, it is how adults hold conversations, especially conversations which are about regulations, changes to them, or the ramifications when they
are ignored.

People pulling rank and saying they are more experianced than others and telling everyone their wrong. Its kinda silly. all I can do is  those who think they can pull rank on-line  who knows, I could be a randome kid who was never in CAP, and you could be a C/AB, and he could be a C/Col, and she could be a General, and and and... 

Unfortunately that is not true in your case.  You identified yourself personally, by name, as a Cadet Captain in the Civil Air Patrol.  Further, you
indicate you have been in CAP since 2005, but appear to have self-leveled at that grade.   You are no longer anonymous, whether you would like to
think you are or not.  As a cadet, you have the right to your opinion, but do not have nearly the experience or understanding of the program
as a whole, or the responsibility of running activities and being personally responsible for the lives and well-being of those under your command
as most of the seniors on this forum.  There are seniors on this board who have been retired from CAP longer than you have been a member.

As a cadet in CAP, you are bound to respect your superiors, senior members, and in general comport yourself with the dignity of your grade
and the uniform.  This is not the Halo Forums, and if you are uncomfortable with that reality, it might be time to disengage, again.

This forum is generally under-represented by cadets, and many of us value the opinions of cadets who understand how to interact with adults
in adult conversations, and within the general expectations of CAP.  The problem is the occasional cadet who believes he somehow "knows better"
than the officers and former members on this board and is intent on making sure we all know "how much better" he " knows".

You can stamp your feet, yell it is unfair, and insist the internet isn't the "real world", but like it or not, it is. You should be aware that on more than a few occasions there have been ramifications to behavior here in real life for both seniors and cadets.  Commanders do not generally appreciate their members, especially cadets, representing their units in a way which is disrespectful or childish.

You, and everyone else, have a right to your opinion. Opinions, however, do not go very far when they are contradicted by facts quoted by or from
an authoritative source.  Instead of whining about everyone asking for citations, provide some yourself.  Actually research a topic before
guessing, and provide links to the citations.  This site is an educational tool for a lot of people who do not post here but refer to it for
current info and background on why things are as they are.

Or don't.

[a2capt]

I soooo... want to send that up his chain, so his leadership can see this attitude.

[lordmonar]

Sir, the Young Marines do it.   

And I think it looks silly. Also I would question the purpose of wearing dress uniform articles on your utility uniform. One wouldn't wear a tie or a service cap with BDU's.

That is the only uniform that Young Marines wear IIRC.  So they have a field version and a non field version.  Not that I agree with it....but it is not like the YM's are sporting ribbons while they are out doing the compass course or doing PT.

Just so you know.

Actually, I saw them wearing their ribbons on their bdus while working at a disaster scene.

Wow....I stand corrected.....well there you go.....CAP is not the biggest bunch of doobs around....and I youed tot hing the YM's were squared away. 

[lordmonar]

btw this is my first time back to CAPTalk in years, I elected to leave after people were chewing me out and being extremely rude, so I'm giving the forum a try again, I hope i get some positive feedback... it ceases to amaze me how rude some people can be on here...    But I know there's a few good souls out there! 

I say we pass it up the chain.

Mr....I know everything, and you can't tell me to shut up....I don't care how long you have been doing this...I don't care if you are a frikking retired Major General.....I don't care what anyone says.......It's the Internet I say!....You can't prove a thing........has been warned.  He evidently is a repeat offender.

And he is more intrested in yelling at people instead of defending his position on the topic at hand.

[spaatzmom]

Yup.. outstanding attitude. Good luck with that.

Haha, you and Eclips just crack me up, you two are so similar. Read my response to the other poster about the whole "squatting on the toilet" thing, and become enlightened. 

The fact that three different people have mentioned your attitude sucks should be a clue...

Make it four.

Cadet, you haven't said much about yourself here in this thread, but what you HAVE said ... and the behavior you've engaged in ... speaks volumes. Snidely telling someone to "become enlightened" (Especially someone to whom you would be obligated to render a salute if you encountered him in real life)? Responding to observations that you're acting like a dork by declaring it's "an Internet forum" so it's all okay? Not to mention failing to take the time and effort to respond when people have offered helpful, on-topic replies to the original post that you made, and thinking that mispellings and exclamation points compensate for poor reasoning.

You're right on one thing: David and Eclipse (that's with an 'e,' by the way, hawkeye) are indeed similar. They're adults. You are not.

I was a cadet officer just under 30 years ago. CAC, like you. Took my Earhart, too. Encampment staff. Etc. I taught cadets under my command that everyone, from C/Airman (that's with one stripe, rather than one strip) to superior officers, deserved human respect. Those who follow you will do so willingly and cheerfully if they believe in you and leadership, and one way to make that happen is to be professional IN EVERY ASPECT OF YOUR MILITARY BEARING. Declaring that you don't need to be professional here because "it's an Internet forum" is, well, unprofessional.

Oh, and there's a Code of Conduct for this little Internet forum. Here are two salient portions from it:

>>All members will respect the opinion and dignity of other members, whether or not they may be present.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and certainly discourse on varying opinions is excellent. However, members will not attack others based on their opinions and beliefs, regardless of whether they agree or not.   <<

>> Keep in mind that a certain level of professionalism must be maintained on the discussion board.  <<

You're young, and brash, and probably pretty high-speed in your unit. I get it. But go back and re-read your own posts with an open mind...consider it a Leadership exercise. Think honestly about how people might *interpret* your meaning. And then re-consider the attitude you bring to your posts here.

As they say on the radio here, "Not a sermon, just a thought."

I'm just gonna say one simple thing here. In somewyas your right, and I agree maybe some of my actions are a little over the top, but we are on an internet forum and no one can prove anyone is anyone. If I met Eclipse and he were a Col, yeah he'd get my salute and yessirs, but on here, I dont REALLY  know who he is. As for your comments about me being childish, and 'not an adult' is very hypocritial of everything you said above. I'm not accusing you or eclipse of anything. we just get in some heated discussions, who doesnt. But to insult me as you did above, thats hypocracy my friend. And shows me you have no true knowledge of what you are speaking. If you have something to say to me, you need to try again without being so insulting, and if you can do this, I will listen to what you have to say. thank you in advance.

WOW just WOW!!!!   What an example of the pot calling the kettle black.   This just might/ should be enough to get you suspended/ banned.  Is it really worth it to continue with the yes childish rants you have been spewing?  Only you can decide, but don't whine when it happens, just a huge warning.  I sure do hope the mods are keeping up with this, it has continued for too long.

Hey now, I just call it as I see it. If I get booted, then wooptie doo... oh well. So it is. But If I get booted with the justification of pointing out that not everyone is so high and mighty as they think they are on a simple forum, atleast I can sleep at night. Now, I'm not saying this to you, but it seems to me that a lot of people dish out just as much as they call out on others. Its kinda funny honestly. But w/e, its just a forum, nothing I can do.

And I do hope the Mods are keeping up with this, and Im pretty sure they are.  I'm sorry guys If I have done anything wrong, but honestly, who hasnt. Im just as guilty as im sure dozens of other people. I started a simple forum with a simple question, and all I get is judgement and insults. Honestly why shouldnt I have the right to defend myself eh? 

Good luck with your future if you continue with your entitlement attitude.  The world owes you nothing.  Life is what you make out of it.  If you cannot properly debate here how can you expect to become an accomplished member of society?  Or do you expect to top out at flipping burgers for a career?

[a2capt]

Whats amusing here is, this cadet just represented his region as part of the Rocky Mountain Region drill team at NCC. By his own admission in this thread.

These teams are, in theory, compromised of the some of the top cadets in the program at the time.

[jimmydeanno]

Can we move on yet?  Seriously?  I'm pretty sure there's a PM feature to this forum.

[titanII]

Can we move on yet?  Seriously?  I'm pretty sure there's a PM feature to this forum.

+1, although you threw me for a loop with those dogs

That is the only uniform that Young Marines wear IIRC.  So they have a field version and a non field version.
Just so you know.

Oh, thank you. I didn't know that. I guess that makes a bit more sense. Not that I like it, though...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

WOW just WOW!!!!   What an example of the pot calling the kettle black.   This just might/ should be enough to get you suspended/ banned.  Is it really worth it to continue with the yes childish rants you have been spewing?  Only you can decide, but don't whine when it happens, just a huge warning.  I sure do hope the mods are keeping up with this, it has continued for too long.

It is, and they have, thank God.

I hope it will be a bit of a wakeup call for this young man, especially given that as a CAP cadet, he would have to salute Eclipse, Ned, myself or any senior officer, or any military commissioned/warrant officer.

Of course, when I was a kid I thought I knew it all too...now in middle age I increasingly realise daily how much I DON'T know.

[Eclipse]

Of course, when I was a kid I thought I knew it all too...now in middle age I increasingly realise daily how much I DON'T know.

The paradox of age - those who know things don't have the energy to do anything about it.

[ColonelJack]

I've discovered that young men and women today have all the answers.  They don't know what any of the questions are, but they have all the answers.

  Jus' kiddin' folks.

Jack

[davidsinn]

I've discovered that young men and women today have all the answers.  They don't know what any of the questions are, but they have all the answers.

  Jus' kiddin' folks.

Jack

Speaking as a relatively young person I'd have to say that I resemble that remark. It's amazing how much smarter my elders get as the years go on. ;-)

[lordmonar]

And the really sad part is...that we start off trying to be nice......getting into the youngsters grill in an attempt to keep him from stepping on his gonads in a "real" situation....but they see us as just being mean, crochety old farts, who don't want to listen.



Now sometimes....we are......Mean, crochety old farts who don't want to listen.....I mean....who does that young snot think he is...I've been doing this since Moses was a cadet!   

[elipod]

I've been doing this since Moses was a cadet!   

Haha, that's a quotable quote

[CAPC/officer125]

And the really sad part is...that we start off trying to be nice......getting into the youngsters grill in an attempt to keep him from stepping on his gonads in a "real" situation....but they see us as just being mean, crochety old farts, who don't want to listen.



Now sometimes....we are......Mean, crochety old farts who don't want to listen.....I mean....who does that young snot think he is...I've been doing this since Moses was a cadet!   

As a cadet who has not stepped on any toes and respected opinions no matter the person (at least I hope), I resent this comment. However, I know that you guys are just trying to help. And I thank you for that.

Also, as a cadet that has seen this happen too many time on here, I am tired of the cadets that misrepresent us.

[abdsp51]

I just have to say that when I was a dual enrolled cadet I was allowed to wear all of my AFJROTC ribbons as long as I was active in the program.  When I graduated I removed them and wore only my CAP ribbons.  Being active now when I wear my blues I wear my ribbons and if said now banned cadet thinks that CAP ribbons are a pain to keep up with trying keeping up with the active folks from any branch whom once they are up there any new ribbon can cause someone to shell out a few bucks to over a hundred depending on the route they went. 

[lordmonar]

Which part do you resent?

The part where I say cadets are stupid....or the part where I say Seniors are stupid?   

If you are tired of cadets misrepesenting you.......be a peer leader and stop them befor they sound like a doofus.

I know on senior side of things....we don't hold back....if a senior member is out of line we let them know.....I myself have been told to crank it down a time or two.

[CAPC/officer125]

Which part do you resent?

The part where I say cadets are stupid....or the part where I say Seniors are stupid?   

If you are tired of cadets misrepesenting you.......be a peer leader and stop them befor they sound like a doofus.

I know on senior side of things....we don't hold back....if a senior member is out of line we let them know.....I myself have been told to crank it down a time or two.

I resent the combination of comments. Cadets can be stupid, yes, but a majority of the ones I know aren't. And some senior are mean old farts, but a far bigger majority that I know aren't.

As far as trying to stop them, usually I can't get to them before you guys do and therefore I just leave them to their own devices.

[jimmydeanno]

Which part do you resent?

The part where I say cadets are stupid....or the part where I say Seniors are stupid?   

If you are tired of cadets misrepesenting you.......be a peer leader and stop them befor they sound like a doofus.

I know on senior side of things....we don't hold back....if a senior member is out of line we let them know.....I myself have been told to crank it down a time or two.

I resent the combination of comments. Cadets can be stupid, yes, but a majority of the ones I know aren't. And some senior are mean old farts, but a far bigger majority that I know aren't.

As far as trying to stop them, usually I can't get to them before you guys do and therefore I just leave them to their own devices.

Hey YOU, Cadet!  Get off my lawn!

In my experience, the cadets are usually pretty well versed in their program.  Problems ensue when seniors who don't work with cadets try to interject their cadet program expertise.  I run into this a lot.  For example, "You cadets obviously don't know how to do color guard correctly, let me show you how we did it in the Army, in 'Nam."

The thousands of cadet activities that I've participated in have never had any real issues with the cadets or the CPOs, just the non-CPOs, like Safety Officers who overstep their bounds, or legal officers, but I digress.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I resent the combination of comments. Cadets can be stupid, yes, but a majority of the ones I know aren't. And some senior are mean old farts, but a far bigger majority that I know aren't.

One reason I like to work with cadets...this is from a TV series from long before you were born, called "Taxi," which had a character called "Crazy Jim," played by actor Christopher Lloyd:

"There's a little Obi-Wan Kenobi in all of us."

Obi-Wan could be a crotchety old fart when he wanted to, but overall he was just trying to be a teacher.

I think most seniors who work with cadets have the same goal.

As a former Safety Officer, one of the most hated/misunderstood officer positions in CAP, I know a lot of cadets saw me as a big killjoy.  My objective was that they not get hurt.  Did I overreach sometimes?  Probably.  However, I would rather have done that and had the cadets call me vile names behind my back than to slack off and have some young person end up in the ER, or worse.

Bottom line: there is nothing said on CAPTalk that is worth giving yourself an ulcer over.  There are times when I get frustrated, too, but my way of dealing with that is just to back off and stay away for a bit.