Failure by the AF to include CAP on the Holm Center web site

[RiverAux]

Okay, so the Civil Air Patrol was moved to the Holm Center in June  to be included with JROTC, ROTC, and the Officer Accessions program. 

Technically, it was CAP-USAF that was moved rather than CAP itself, but it does show where the AF thinks CAP generally fits into their overall program.

At the time and in a few instances since then it has been mentioned that there has been almost nothing on the Holm's Center site to reflect this change other than a few stories in their online magazine.  CAP (or CAP-USAF) is still not included as one of the major sections on the site, and there are basically no materials about CAP on the site.  Heck, there isn't even a link to CAP in the AF Links section.

Back when the change was made, I counseled a little bit of patience in waiting for such changes to be made on the website, but now that four months have passed, I think that time has come and gone. 

So, the purpose of this thread is to generate a little "public awareness" about this issue and since we know NHQ public affairs monitors CAPTalk, maybe they will get to work on this problem.   Here is the url: http://www.au.af.mil/au/holmcenter/index.asp

Here is what I would like to see:
1.  Long term I would like to see CAP (or at least CAP-USAF) included as a major link at the top of the main page with appropriate information on CAP-USAF and CAP included on the page it goes to.  There should be similar information about joining CAP, as both a senior member and cadet, as there is on the JROTC and ROTC pages. 

2.  In the short term, put a link to CAP in the AF links section of the main page. 

[FW]

Thanks for showing us RiverAux.  It would be nice if they at least mentioned CAP-USAF in their home page.  At least CAP is listed in the "Fact Sheet" link.

[RiverAux]

Yes, but only as an alternative to AFJROTC in communities without AFJROTC units -- the implication being that if there is AFJROTC, that is the one you should join. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=11604

Brig. Gen. Teresa A.H. Djuric is Commander, Jeanne M. Holm Center for Officer Accessions and Citizen Development, Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala.

Stationed AT Maxwell. They dropped the ball on this? Perhaps. Is CAP Leadership? YES!

[ltcmark]

Here is what I would like to see:
1.  Long term I would like to see CAP (or at least CAP-USAF) included as a major link at the top of the main page with appropriate information on CAP-USAF and CAP included on the page it goes to.  There should be similar information about joining CAP, as both a senior member and cadet, as there is on the JROTC and ROTC pages. 

2.  In the short term, put a link to CAP in the AF links section of the main page.

Why would the Air Force want to support CAP in this way.  CAP does not have anything on the front page of the gocivilairpatrol.com website that even suggest we are part of the Air Force, let alone have a link to anything Air Force on the front page.  In fact, you have to do some serious digging on the CAP website to see any info on our relationship with the Air Force.

Turnabout is fair play.......

[Ricochet13]

Here is what I would like to see:
1.  Long term I would like to see CAP (or at least CAP-USAF) included as a major link at the top of the main page with appropriate information on CAP-USAF and CAP included on the page it goes to.  There should be similar information about joining CAP, as both a senior member and cadet, as there is on the JROTC and ROTC pages. 

2.  In the short term, put a link to CAP in the AF links section of the main page.

Why would the Air Force want to support CAP in this way.  CAP does not have anything on the front page of the gocivilairpatrol.com website that even suggest we are part of the Air Force, let alone have a link to anything Air Force on the front page.  In fact, you have to do some serious digging on the CAP website to see any info on our relationship with the Air Force.

Turnabout is fair play.......

Well stated.   :clap:   

[NCRblues]

In my humble opinion, i believe cap is slowly moving further and further away from Ma Blue. At least in My local area, and the greater St. Louis region, Air force support with anything is unheard of. YMMV

[RiverAux]

Why would the Air Force want to support CAP in this way.  CAP does not have anything on the front page of the gocivilairpatrol.com website that even suggest we are part of the Air Force, let alone have a link to anything Air Force on the front page.

Well, CAP hardly has any information about CAP on our front page either, so the AF shouldn't feel left out. 

And we're not talking about the primary USAF web site, we're talking about a very tiny component of the AF that actually has primary responsibility for dealing with CAP issues.

[Short Field]

Another thread about "The Air Forces doesn't (fill in the blank).".    Do you even know who you are talking about when you say "The Air Force"?  When I hear that phrase, I think of the Secretary of the Air Force and the Chief of Staff USAF since they are the two senior policy/decision makers in the USAF. 

If you are complaining about the Holm Center, you are really complaining about Brig Gen Djuric.  So your thread title should be "Failure by Brig Gen Teresa A. H. Djuric to include CAP on the Holm Center web site".    Send her a e-mail complaining about this and I am sure you will get a response.

In the St Louis area, who has went to the local base and met the commander?  That is the person who will sit the tone for your USAF support locally.   We have senior wing leadership that makes it a point to met our local USAF base commanders and we get great support. 

Some people make it sound like there is a secret room someplace where the "Air Force" meets to see how they can downplay CAP.  The reality is the USAF leaders, from the top all the way down to your local base commanders, are too busy trying to get their mission accomplished to worry about another two-star general's organization.   If there is a problem that falls under their control, they will address it when it is brought to their attention.  They didn't get to the positions they have today by ignoring problems.  If a local CAP unit wants support, they will probably support you within their ability.  But you have to open up communications with them first. 

Also remember, Commanders come and Commanders go.  So if you happen to find a rare non-supportive commander, wait two years and work on the replacement.   I know a Air Force Association Chapter that had to do this with a base commander. 

[Gunner C]

When I met her last summer, she seemed very supportive, plus IIRC, she has a son in CAP.  But, it appears that we've been left out.  Not exactly a prized asset there at the Holm Center, are we?

[RiverAux]

Another thread about "The Air Forces doesn't (fill in the blank).". 

No, not really.  It is a thread about CAP being ignored by the AF and sure I suppose the person ultimately responsible in this case is the person you named, but that is sort of irrelevant. 

I don't think the AF in general or all that many specific AF personnel have an active dislike for CAP. 

But I think it is indisputable that while local AF unit commanders generally respond positively to requests for assistance from CAP, the AF as a whole treats CAP with benign neglect.  The failure (so far) to include CAP in any meaningful way on this site is a fairly good example of this. 

[Cecil DP]

Yes, but only as an alternative to AFJROTC in communities without AFJROTC units -- the implication being that if there is AFJROTC, that is the one you should join.

The primary mission of the Holm center is the ROTC and Officer accessions, NOT CAP.

[RiverAux]

The primary mission of the Holm center is the ROTC and Officer accessions, NOT CAP.

It wasn't that even before they moved CAP-USAF over there. and by the way the primary mission of the Holms Center is

Develop the best Air Force leaders and citizens of character, dedicated to serving the Nation

so CAP fits right in there with the other aspects of the program JROTC, ROTS, and Officer Accessions. 

[Nick]

Develop the best Air Force leaders and citizens of character, dedicated to serving the Nation

so CAP fits right in there with the other aspects of the program JROTC, ROTS, and Officer Accessions.

So ... the CAP Cadet Program and Senior Professional Development programs fit right in there.  CAP as a whole, not so much.

Edit: I might even bite on the AE program falling in there.  But ES really does have a place elsewhere in the AF organization (no, I really don't want to open this door again so I won't mention where else I think it has a place).

[BillB]

I don't see the Air Force not supporting CAP as it has in the past. I see a downsized Air Force not having the personnel for that support. WWhen CAP-USAF had active duty Liaison staffs in each Wing, support was easier to obtain. But the Air Force downsized three times since that period. Air Force Squadrons have cut back on flight training to an extent due to budget cutbacks. That's not to say the pilot and flight crews are not trained, but the flight hours have been cut back.
To often CAP Commanders go to an Air Force Base, and have no idea who to contact for any support. I saw one case where a CAP Wing Staff member went to an Air Force Base in blues, and didn't even meet CAP weight standards. This gives a poor impression of CAP, and doesn't help in getting support.
The relationship between CAP-USAF and the Holm Center appears to be up in the air. Where does CAP fit in. Does it compete with AFJROTC? Or are the two organizations complementing each other? Throw in the CAP Corporation and you can see where there may be a problem for the Holm Center.

[Short Field]

But I think it is indisputable that while local AF unit commanders generally respond positively to requests for assistance from CAP, the AF as a whole treats CAP with benign neglect.  The failure (so far) to include CAP in any meaningful way on this site is a fairly good example of this.

I really don't know who you are talking about when you say "the AF as a whole".  If the local commanders are responding to our requests, then who specifically is treating us with "benign neglect"?  The two or three lower ranking people who put up the web site?

[RiverAux]

Or are the two organizations complementing each other?

According to the hoopla at the time, this is the goal.  For example, o-ride flights in CAP planes for JROTC (and the similar flights that have been authorized for ROTC for a long time). 

So ... the CAP Cadet Program and Senior Professional Development programs fit right in there.  CAP as a whole, not so much.

Edit: I might even bite on the AE program falling in there.  But ES really does have a place elsewhere in the AF organization (no, I really don't want to open this door again so I won't mention where else I think it has a place).

FYI, I was really stating their line of reasoning for it.  My own opinion on where CAP should be placed is different (and is a topic of numerous other threads).

If the local commanders are responding to our requests, then who specifically is treating us with "benign neglect"?

In this case, the Holm Center, which is now responsible for CAP issues in the AF.  Hence this thread.  There are other threads discussing other ways the AF doesn't do as much as it could to support CAP (and conversely there are other threads about how CAP could do more to help the AF-- though that is more the case of the AF apparently not being interested in using us rather than CAP ignoring them). 

[NCRblues]

Another thread about "The Air Forces doesn't (fill in the blank).".    Do you even know who you are talking about when you say "The Air Force"?  When I hear that phrase, I think of the Secretary of the Air Force and the Chief of Staff USAF since they are the two senior policy/decision makers in the USAF. 

If you are complaining about the Holm Center, you are really complaining about Brig Gen Djuric.  So your thread title should be "Failure by Brig Gen Teresa A. H. Djuric to include CAP on the Holm Center web site".    Send her a e-mail complaining about this and I am sure you will get a response.

In the St Louis area, who has went to the local base and met the commander?  That is the person who will sit the tone for your USAF support locally.   We have senior wing leadership that makes it a point to met our local USAF base commanders and we get great support. 

Some people make it sound like there is a secret room someplace where the "Air Force" meets to see how they can downplay CAP.  The reality is the USAF leaders, from the top all the way down to your local base commanders, are too busy trying to get their mission accomplished to worry about another two-star general's organization.   If there is a problem that falls under their control, they will address it when it is brought to their attention.  They didn't get to the positions they have today by ignoring problems.  If a local CAP unit wants support, they will probably support you within their ability.  But you have to open up communications with them first. 

Also remember, Commanders come and Commanders go.  So if you happen to find a rare non-supportive commander, wait two years and work on the replacement.   I know a Air Force Association Chapter that had to do this with a base commander.

What base in the St Louis area? The nearest base to St Louis is Scott, which is in Illinois, which is located in a different wing and region, so no help there. The wing has already gone to Whiteman AFB, and asked, and we get the smile and nod, but then we get the "our mission here is undergoing massive change's and we just can't help, sorry, come back after global strike command is stood up" So where do units turn for our parent organization's help, when there is none around? Not being located on the Holm centers web site, just points out a current and future problem with our parent organization.

[Short Field]

In my humble opinion, i believe cap is slowly moving further and further away from Ma Blue. At least in My local area, and the greater St. Louis region, Air force support with anything is unheard of. YMMV

What base in the St Louis area? The nearest base to St Louis is Scott, which is in Illinois, which is located in a different wing and region, so no help there. The wing has already gone to Whiteman AFB, and asked, and we get the smile and nod, but then we get the "our mission here is undergoing massive change's and we just can't help, sorry, come back after global strike command is stood up" So where do units turn for our parent organization's help, when there is none around? Not being located on the Holm centers web site, just points out a current and future problem with our parent organization.

What type of support are you expecting from a non-local base?   Orientation flgihts?  Access to base facilities?   And why would you go to a base 100+ miles away when you have one 10 miles away?   I would be really surprised to find out that Scott AFB didn't want to talk to you since you weren't in the same state.  They really don't care what CAP wing owns you. 

[NCRblues]

Scott AFB is about an hour away from my location, not 10 miles, Whiteman is in the state, so naturally thinking, our wing commander went to the air force base inside the wing for things like access to base facilities for cap members and just general support. Cap members have to be sponsored onto Scott and Whiteman now; it used to be we were granted access to clothing sales, or meeting locations on base. When I Sent an email to both bases Public affairs about the situation, the responses were due to a security shift and due to CAP only be AF AUX during missions. A dependent child has less trouble sponsoring his teenage friends on base than we as cap members do getting on base in uniform. With my cac card I have access to the base, so several times I have gone onto base and purchased uniform items for members. The general reaction to cap, is a smile and a "that's nice, but you're not real" attitude from almost everyone on these bases. Cap, inside the air force, is looked upon like the red headed step child no one wants to deal with. They smile and say nice things until we leave and then say thank god the wannabe's are gone.  We follow the rules the Air force puts down, we run everything (basically) we do by the air force, so I believe that the higher ranking personnel in the Air force should do more than just pay us the lip service and do something about truly supporting us.

[Short Field]

^^^ Sorry, I hit post instead of preview when I got the quotes loaded, so I was typing in what I wanted to say when you saw the quotes. 

[Mustang]

Okay, so the Civil Air Patrol was moved to the Holm Center in June  to be included with JROTC, ROTC, and the Officer Accessions program. 

Technically, it was CAP-USAF that was moved rather than CAP itself, but it does show where the AF thinks CAP generally fits into their overall program.

There's no "technically" about it.  You do realize that the ONLY reason CAP-USAF is part of Air University at all is because it's located at Maxwell, right?  Just to clear up any lingering confusion:

CAP is not part of the Air Force.

CAP is not an Air Force MAJCOM.

CAP is not part of the Air Force.

CAP does not fall under or report to any Air Force MAJCOM.

CAP is not part of the Air Force.

CAP does not report to the Secretary of the Air Force, Secretary of Defense, or President of the United States.

CAP is not part of the Air Force.

CAP answers to Congress, period.

CAP is not part of the Air Force.

Due to CAP's own past buffoonery, its status has basically been relegated to that of "defense contractor".

Oh, and in case you missed it: CAP is not part of the Air Force.

Clear as mud?

[Nick]

Oh, and in case you missed it: CAP is not part of the Air Force.

We're just the Air Force Auxiliary.

Edit: Give 10 USC Chapter 909 a read sometime. It's a good reminder of what our relationship to the Air Force is exactly.

[jimmydeanno]

From our nifty CAP-USAF briefing at NSC a mere few days ago, given by the CAP-USAF commander.

The Air Force / CAP-USAF is on board with our Organization's vision and direction. 

The CAP-USAF and NHQ are working more closely than ever.

The relationship between our organizations is steadily improving (he says it was never really that bad anyway)

The Air Force leaders (all the way to the Secretary of the Air Force) think that CAP is super awesome.

Brig Gen Djuric (who was the keynote speaker at our NSC banquet) is a fantastic leader and extremely supportive of the CAP program.

CAP-USAF and CAP leaders are actively having meetings with Air Force/Government leaders to better communicate our missions.

All ROTC and JROTC instructors have been recently briefed about CAP at some sort of symposium they had.

The USAF loves us, CAP-USAF loves us, we love us.  The Air Force doesn't want to get rid of its auxiliary.

[Spike]

Wow.  Some real negative posts here.

I have always had nothing but a GREAT relationship with the Local Air Force at every unit I have been.  A decade ago, I had a personal relationship with the Base Commander who granted my CAP unit access to everything (except the Commissary).  We were all encouraged to join one of the Clubs on base, and were treated with nothing but respect.  We always sat at the monthly "Commanders Call", and had input on how we could support the Commanders goals and vision. 

All it takes is making an appointment to speak with the Base Commander.  Be genuine, honest and forthright on what you can provide and do for him or her and you will be rewarded.

I have always had a great relationship with the JROTC/ROTC as well.  We provide extra support for them, and they reward us with uniforms, instructors and facilities when needed.  Again, all it takes is an appointment.

Give it a few more months (five to be exact) and you will see the advantages of CAP-USAF moving to the Holm Center.  Just because you may not see or hear what is going on, does not mean something is not going on! 

Who here has actually addressed the Website issue with the PA staff at Holm?  If the answer is "not me".....then you have your answer.  Perhaps sending an email to NHQ PA staff would serve a purpose, but I think if it give it some time you will see it is being taken care of already.

   

[lordmonar]

Another thread about "The Air Forces doesn't (fill in the blank).". 

No, not really.  It is a thread about CAP being ignored by the AF and sure I suppose the person ultimately responsible in this case is the person you named, but that is sort of irrelevant. 

I don't think the AF in general or all that many specific AF personnel have an active dislike for CAP. 

But I think it is indisputable that while local AF unit commanders generally respond positively to requests for assistance from CAP, the AF as a whole treats CAP with benign neglect.  The failure (so far) to include CAP in any meaningful way on this site is a fairly good example of this.

The Air Force holds any organisation that does not directly support THEIR mission with benign neglect.

Ask any fighter squadron member what they know about the comm squadron or the services squadron or CE.....and you will get the same dumb stares as you would get if you asked them about CAP.

Now....having said that....my question to you is.....do you know how any organisation gets added to a web page?

I know.....it works like this...the web master sends out requests to all their subordinate units to send them content.   If there is no content.....well they don't get added.

The specific problem here is not "The Air Force" but the web master at "CAP-USAF".  There is a link to CAP-USAF on the AU page under "other AU links".  The content under the HOLMS Center is simply the same content that used to be under the AFOATS page.

So basically all they did was changed the banner across the top and pressed on.

No big conspiracy or attempt to put CAP into some dark corner for being the bastard step child.

[Strick]

From our nifty CAP-USAF briefing at NSC a mere few days ago, given by the CAP-USAF commander.

The Air Force / CAP-USAF is on board with our Organization's vision and direction. 

The CAP-USAF and NHQ are working more closely than ever.

The relationship between our organizations is steadily improving (he says it was never really that bad anyway)

The Air Force leaders (all the way to the Secretary of the Air Force) think that CAP is super awesome.

Brig Gen Djuric (who was the keynote speaker at our NSC banquet) is a fantastic leader and extremely supportive of the CAP program.

CAP-USAF and CAP leaders are actively having meetings with Air Force/Government leaders to better communicate our missions.

All ROTC and JROTC instructors have been recently briefed about CAP at some sort of symposium they had.

The USAF loves us, CAP-USAF loves us, we love us.  The Air Force doesn't want to get rid of its auxiliary.

what he said.............. I was there  They want us more than ever and our National Cmmander briefs the Air Staff as to what we are doing.   

[Short Field]

The issues with the Holm Center, Scott AFB, and Whiteman AFB are all about relationships between people - not a CAP/USAF relationship.   You just need to keep working to improve communications and relationships because it is all about the people.

Maybe Lordmonar can expand on his squadron's success in getting USAF support.

[Eclipse]

The issues with the Holm Center, Scott AFB, and Whiteman AFB are all about relationships between people - not a CAP/USAF relationship.   You just need to keep working to improve communications and relationships because it is all about the people.

And just for clarity, I'm not aware of any "issues" with Scott, they offer a lot of support to CAP on an ongoing basis.

Scott AFB is about an hour away from my location, not 10 miles, Whiteman is in the state, so naturally thinking, our wing commander went to the air force base inside the wing for things like access to base facilities for cap members and just general support. Cap members have to be sponsored onto Scott and Whiteman now; it used to be we were granted access to clothing sales, or meeting locations on base. When I Sent an email to both bases Public affairs about the situation, the responses were due to a security shift and due to CAP only be AF AUX during missions.

Suggestion - when you start calling military bases outside your wing and region, especially bases with an established, positive relationship with CAP, you first call either local CAP commanders, or the State Director. 

Its required by our program that the SD's are informed any time we deal with the military, and its common courtesy to the local commanders. 

I can almost guarantee you that you would / will get better response and support.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Scott AFB is about an hour away from my location, not 10 miles, Whiteman is in the state, so naturally thinking, our wing commander went to the air force base inside the wing for things like access to base facilities for cap members and just general support. Cap members have to be sponsored onto Scott and Whiteman now; it used to be we were granted access to clothing sales, or meeting locations on base. When I Sent an email to both bases Public affairs about the situation, the responses were due to a security shift and due to CAP only be AF AUX during missions. A dependent child has less trouble sponsoring his teenage friends on base than we as cap members do getting on base in uniform. With my cac card I have access to the base, so several times I have gone onto base and purchased uniform items for members. The general reaction to cap, is a smile and a "that's nice, but you're not real" attitude from almost everyone on these bases. Cap, inside the air force, is looked upon like the red headed step child no one wants to deal with. They smile and say nice things until we leave and then say thank god the wannabe's are gone.  We follow the rules the Air force puts down, we run everything (basically) we do by the air force, so I believe that the higher ranking personnel in the Air force should do more than just pay us the lip service and do something about truly supporting us.

Um, anyone check the regs about CAP access at least to certain AAFES activities?

[NCRblues]

Eclipse, you may need to re-read what I put down. We never contacted scott afb because it was not in the wing or region, so thanks for that great bit of info.  BuckeyeDEJ, the base commander, of any base has the ability to tell anyone they are not allowed on his base, no matter what cap or cap-usaf regs state. I am very sick of getting jumped on, for putting down what has happened, or is happening around my local area. You all need to calm down, and realize you're speaking to other VOLUNTEERS, not your subordinates. Some on this site are very nice and helpful, others come here to blast people to make them feel better and you know who you are.

[lordmonar]

The issues with the Holm Center, Scott AFB, and Whiteman AFB are all about relationships between people - not a CAP/USAF relationship.   You just need to keep working to improve communications and relationships because it is all about the people.

Maybe Lordmonar can expand on his squadron's success in getting USAF support.

We get nothing but great support from Nellis AFB, NV ANG or Creech AFB.

We get O-rides 3-4 times a year, ramp visits, Red Flag visits, Threat Training Facility Visits, they are hosting next years Encampment on base.

As for Big Blue support.....the SUAV program is worth multi-millions of dollars.....if the USAF had problems with CAP I don't think we would see any of that.

This is a non-issue.   Any push back by local bases is most likely just because operational realities just don't allow a lot of extra support.

[PHall]

Scott AFB is about an hour away from my location, not 10 miles, Whiteman is in the state, so naturally thinking, our wing commander went to the air force base inside the wing for things like access to base facilities for cap members and just general support. Cap members have to be sponsored onto Scott and Whiteman now; it used to be we were granted access to clothing sales, or meeting locations on base. When I Sent an email to both bases Public affairs about the situation, the responses were due to a security shift and due to CAP only be AF AUX during missions. A dependent child has less trouble sponsoring his teenage friends on base than we as cap members do getting on base in uniform. With my cac card I have access to the base, so several times I have gone onto base and purchased uniform items for members. The general reaction to cap, is a smile and a "that's nice, but you're not real" attitude from almost everyone on these bases. Cap, inside the air force, is looked upon like the red headed step child no one wants to deal with. They smile and say nice things until we leave and then say thank god the wannabe's are gone.  We follow the rules the Air force puts down, we run everything (basically) we do by the air force, so I believe that the higher ranking personnel in the Air force should do more than just pay us the lip service and do something about truly supporting us.

Um, anyone check the regs about CAP access at least to certain AAFES activities?

At the Base Commander's discretion.

[Eclipse]

Eclipse, you may need to re-read what I put down. We never contacted scott afb because it was not in the wing or region,

Oh, my apologies.  I must have misread what you said...

Scott AFB is about an hour away from my location, not 10 miles, Whiteman is in the state, so naturally thinking, our wing commander went to the air force base inside the wing for things like access to base facilities for cap members and just general support. Cap members have to be sponsored onto Scott and Whiteman now; it used to be we were granted access to clothing sales, or meeting locations on base. When I Sent an email to both bases Public affairs about the situation, the responses were due to a security shift and due to CAP only be AF AUX during missions.

Clearly my misreading your post in thinking you had contacted both bases.  No idea where I could get that idea.

[Mustang]

Oh, and in case you missed it: CAP is not part of the Air Force.

We're just the Air Force Auxiliary.

Edit: Give 10 USC Chapter 909 a read sometime. It's a good reminder of what our relationship to the Air Force is exactly.

I'm very familiar with that particular statute--especially Section 9442(a), where it says when we're an auxiliary and when we aren't:

"The Civil Air Patrol is a volunteer civilian auxiliary of the Air Force when the services of the Civil Air Patrol are used by any department or agency in any branch of the Federal Government."

Prior to Jay Bobick's buffoonery in the late '90s, we were always the Air Force Auxiliary; now, it's Aux On, Aux Off....

[FW]

Prior to Jay Bobick's buffoonery in the late '90s, we were always the Air Force Auxiliary; now, it's Aux On, Aux Off....

An interesting assumption....  I would love to hear some explanation supporting it.   

My "take" goes all the way back to 1995; when a certain SECAF found out he couldn't remove a certain national/cc for cause.... then again, in 1998 when a certain CAP/NB decided to demote a general officer in CAP, then again.... when a certain "white paper" separating the "Aux" from the "Corp" circulated through the Pentegon later the same year....because of the above; and, serious charges made against CAP for serious mismanagement of appropriated dollars, unlawful means by which we obtained appropriated dollars and, a severe lack of transparancy and/or accountablilty in any management practice.  IMHO, no one single person caused this.  But then again, what do I know....

Now, how does this relate to the Holm Center web site?

[IceNine]

In my humble opinion, i believe cap is slowly moving further and further away from Ma Blue. At least in My local area, and the greater St. Louis region, Air force support with anything is unheard of. YMMV

Are you talking support from Scott?  Because if you're saying they won't help you then it's your fault.  They are great to IL.

[jimmydeanno]

I believe cap is slowly moving further and further away from Ma Blue. At least in my local area, and the greater St. Louis region, Air force support with anything is unheard of. YMMV

I believe that you are wrong.

Currently, appropriated funds account for ~90% of our annual budget.  With that money we performed ~113,000 hours of Air Force Assigned Missions, an increase from last year. 

CAP-USAF and NHQ are working together to generate more missions to enable us to be competitive and nimble in our market.  This cooperation requires a better relationship between our organizations.

NHQ is implementing their strategic plan to better balance the appropriated funding with corporate funding.  This also requires the acquisition of Non-Air Force assigned missions, like State taskings, etc.  (This is also where the "part-time" Auxiliary comes in, it enables us to do this).

If we have a budget that includes 50% Appropriated monies and 50% corporate monies, that doesn't mean that the AF is pushing us away, it means that we're doing the same amount of stuff for the Air Force AND 40% more "other" missions.  That is not a bad thing, it is good for our organization.

Our briefing at NSC stated, rather matter-of-factly, that we may not alway be legally recognized as the Auxiliary but the Air Force in no way wants to lose its auxiliary.

If you are not able to receive support at the local level, it sounds to me that you need to develop a better local relationship with your State Directors, CAPRAP Folks, etc to help you get a better relationship with your local installation commanders.

YMMV.

[Strick]

Colonel Ward ,USAF-CAP Commander stated that when we are on assigned AF misions we are the Auxiliary with a capital A and when not on assigned missons we are still the Air Forces'auxiliary .   

[Nick]

I like that perspective.

[LTC Don]

The Air Force is a huge organization, with lots of right and left hands.  I work in state government so I am very familiar with the left and right not being in synch.  It is not hard to imagine why CAP is not featured on the website.  It is most likely simple lack of communications. Someone simply needs to step up and communicate with the Holm Center folks and get it fixed.

I was looking around for something else when I came across this at the Middle East Region website: http://mer.cap.gov/TARC%202009.aspx

All the harbingers of doom constantly whining about how the CAP-USAF relationship is sour grapes gets a little tiresome.  I've been in for 22+ years, and was around when the maroon epaulets debacle happened (and yes, that wound for me still festers), but when I see the SECAF posing for pics with our members.....my spirits are at least lifted a little bit.

Cheers,

[Strick]

We need to stay positive .......... There is no conspiracy forthe AF to get rid of CAP.  With not being the Auxiliary on non- AF assigned misions it is greater oppurtunity to expand our missions  For not being on the website, I would give it some time.   Just rember we have our own website wich they think is great!   

[RiverAux]

FYI, the Holm Center web page now has a box for CAP-USAF at the top of the main page and in the quick links section on the left-hand side of the page. 

There are a few odd things... the link to the actual CAP web page is "Go Civil Air Patrol!" rather than just "Civil Air Patrol" and for some reason there is a link to the Alabama Wing web site.  Maybe it is there for new CAP-USAF personnel who might want to get their kids in as cadets??

This is a big step in the right direction and hopefully the integration will continue into the future. 

[RiverAux]

Okay, thought I'd check in on how they're doing with integrating CAP to their web site.

1.  Well, they have a quick link to CAP-USAF (not to CAP) on the main page. 
2.  They do have a link to CAP in the AF links section of the main page, but it is partially broken.  It goes to a page that is no longer part of the CAP site, but with a little initiative you can navigate to the right place.  But, still, this may be indicative of the status of CAP in this system when they can't even get a link to this large program right.  It still says "Go Civil Air Patrol!" as pointed out several years ago. 
3.  For some reason there is still a link to the Alabama Wing on the CAP-USAF page. 
4.  On the Holms Center public affairs page, they leave out CAP as among the programs and don't have a CAP fact sheet.
5. The Holms Center magazine "Leader" has no CAP stories featured in the "top stories".  However, it doesn't appear that very many stories are submitted to it from anyone as there are very few recent ones.  Who knows if CAP NHQ sends them over any of our stuff or not.  So, its unclear whether this is a CAP problem or an AF problem.  It does appear that you can submit your story directly to them, so I wonder what would happen if a squadron or wing PAO sent them something?
The CAP link on that page also goes to the broken page mentioned above. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

In my humble opinion, i believe cap is slowly moving further and further away from Ma Blue. At least in My local area, and the greater St. Louis region, Air force support with anything is unheard of. YMMV

I don't think that in practical terms the Air Force really cares much about us anymore...kind of a "benign neglect."

[RADIOMAN015]

In my humble opinion, i believe cap is slowly moving further and further away from Ma Blue. At least in My local area, and the greater St. Louis region, Air force support with anything is unheard of. YMMV

I don't think that in practical terms the Air Force really cares much about us anymore...kind of a "benign neglect."

Well check out the HQ AF website on the CAP fact sheet:
http://www.af.mil/information/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=163  Interesting to note Aerospace Education is before Cadet Programs.  Would be nice if our website was cross referenced right in the fact sheet.  Actually though a very good write up :angel:

I totally disagree that the AF doesn't care about CAP.  I believe that overall the AF has some real budget/financial & manpower (potential reduction in force) issues that are like a tidal wave forming off the coast, and to a certain extent this has gotten them a bit preoccupied .   

Also I've got to admit that I'm still confused with what all those 350 (22 assigned to Maxwell) personnel assigned to CAP-USAF are really doing .  I don't want to come across as negative but on the other hand I'd like to get a better understanding of what they actually do to support us out in the field.  When you add in the National HQ Staff paid employees, that's just one full time paid person for every aircraft we have

Website wise, yea, it would be nice if all the links worked properly :angel:
RM   

[SarDragon]

My guess on the 350 people is that it includes the CAP-RAP folks. Just a guess.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My guess on the 350 people is that it includes the CAP-RAP folks. Just a guess.

I haven't seen a CAP-RAP in a good year or so...and we meet on an ANG base.

[Tim Medeiros]

Don't forget those assigned to the liaison regions and the state directors and the folks they work with.

[SarDragon]

Don't forget those assigned to the liaison regions and the state directors and the folks they work with.

Yeah, them, too. Knew there were more than just CAP-RAP.

[RADIOMAN015]

My guess on the 350 people is that it includes the CAP-RAP folks. Just a guess.

We have non paid (retirement points only) RAP NCO assigned to our State Director.  He's been helpful at some activities in the past.    I see that HQ CAP-USAF still appears to be recruiting for these positions on their website (at least with contact information).  I was under the impression (from a comment made by the RAP NCO) that even these points only positions were being cut back by the USAF Reserve.   
RM

[RiverAux]

topic?