Failure by the AF to include CAP on the Holm Center web site

[RiverAux]

Okay, so the Civil Air Patrol was moved to the Holm Center in June  to be included with JROTC, ROTC, and the Officer Accessions program. 

Technically, it was CAP-USAF that was moved rather than CAP itself, but it does show where the AF thinks CAP generally fits into their overall program.

At the time and in a few instances since then it has been mentioned that there has been almost nothing on the Holm's Center site to reflect this change other than a few stories in their online magazine.  CAP (or CAP-USAF) is still not included as one of the major sections on the site, and there are basically no materials about CAP on the site.  Heck, there isn't even a link to CAP in the AF Links section.

Back when the change was made, I counseled a little bit of patience in waiting for such changes to be made on the website, but now that four months have passed, I think that time has come and gone. 

So, the purpose of this thread is to generate a little "public awareness" about this issue and since we know NHQ public affairs monitors CAPTalk, maybe they will get to work on this problem.   Here is the url: http://www.au.af.mil/au/holmcenter/index.asp

Here is what I would like to see:
1.  Long term I would like to see CAP (or at least CAP-USAF) included as a major link at the top of the main page with appropriate information on CAP-USAF and CAP included on the page it goes to.  There should be similar information about joining CAP, as both a senior member and cadet, as there is on the JROTC and ROTC pages. 

2.  In the short term, put a link to CAP in the AF links section of the main page. 

[FW]

Thanks for showing us RiverAux.  It would be nice if they at least mentioned CAP-USAF in their home page.  At least CAP is listed in the "Fact Sheet" link.

[RiverAux]

Yes, but only as an alternative to AFJROTC in communities without AFJROTC units -- the implication being that if there is AFJROTC, that is the one you should join. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=11604

Brig. Gen. Teresa A.H. Djuric is Commander, Jeanne M. Holm Center for Officer Accessions and Citizen Development, Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala.

Stationed AT Maxwell. They dropped the ball on this? Perhaps. Is CAP Leadership? YES!

[ltcmark]

Here is what I would like to see:
1.  Long term I would like to see CAP (or at least CAP-USAF) included as a major link at the top of the main page with appropriate information on CAP-USAF and CAP included on the page it goes to.  There should be similar information about joining CAP, as both a senior member and cadet, as there is on the JROTC and ROTC pages. 

2.  In the short term, put a link to CAP in the AF links section of the main page.

Why would the Air Force want to support CAP in this way.  CAP does not have anything on the front page of the gocivilairpatrol.com website that even suggest we are part of the Air Force, let alone have a link to anything Air Force on the front page.  In fact, you have to do some serious digging on the CAP website to see any info on our relationship with the Air Force.

Turnabout is fair play.......

[Ricochet13]

Here is what I would like to see:
1.  Long term I would like to see CAP (or at least CAP-USAF) included as a major link at the top of the main page with appropriate information on CAP-USAF and CAP included on the page it goes to.  There should be similar information about joining CAP, as both a senior member and cadet, as there is on the JROTC and ROTC pages. 

2.  In the short term, put a link to CAP in the AF links section of the main page.

Why would the Air Force want to support CAP in this way.  CAP does not have anything on the front page of the gocivilairpatrol.com website that even suggest we are part of the Air Force, let alone have a link to anything Air Force on the front page.  In fact, you have to do some serious digging on the CAP website to see any info on our relationship with the Air Force.

Turnabout is fair play.......

Well stated.   :clap:   

[NCRblues]

In my humble opinion, i believe cap is slowly moving further and further away from Ma Blue. At least in My local area, and the greater St. Louis region, Air force support with anything is unheard of. YMMV

[RiverAux]

Why would the Air Force want to support CAP in this way.  CAP does not have anything on the front page of the gocivilairpatrol.com website that even suggest we are part of the Air Force, let alone have a link to anything Air Force on the front page.

Well, CAP hardly has any information about CAP on our front page either, so the AF shouldn't feel left out. 

And we're not talking about the primary USAF web site, we're talking about a very tiny component of the AF that actually has primary responsibility for dealing with CAP issues.

[Short Field]

Another thread about "The Air Forces doesn't (fill in the blank).".    Do you even know who you are talking about when you say "The Air Force"?  When I hear that phrase, I think of the Secretary of the Air Force and the Chief of Staff USAF since they are the two senior policy/decision makers in the USAF. 

If you are complaining about the Holm Center, you are really complaining about Brig Gen Djuric.  So your thread title should be "Failure by Brig Gen Teresa A. H. Djuric to include CAP on the Holm Center web site".    Send her a e-mail complaining about this and I am sure you will get a response.

In the St Louis area, who has went to the local base and met the commander?  That is the person who will sit the tone for your USAF support locally.   We have senior wing leadership that makes it a point to met our local USAF base commanders and we get great support. 

Some people make it sound like there is a secret room someplace where the "Air Force" meets to see how they can downplay CAP.  The reality is the USAF leaders, from the top all the way down to your local base commanders, are too busy trying to get their mission accomplished to worry about another two-star general's organization.   If there is a problem that falls under their control, they will address it when it is brought to their attention.  They didn't get to the positions they have today by ignoring problems.  If a local CAP unit wants support, they will probably support you within their ability.  But you have to open up communications with them first. 

Also remember, Commanders come and Commanders go.  So if you happen to find a rare non-supportive commander, wait two years and work on the replacement.   I know a Air Force Association Chapter that had to do this with a base commander. 

[Gunner C]

When I met her last summer, she seemed very supportive, plus IIRC, she has a son in CAP.  But, it appears that we've been left out.  Not exactly a prized asset there at the Holm Center, are we?

[RiverAux]

Another thread about "The Air Forces doesn't (fill in the blank).". 

No, not really.  It is a thread about CAP being ignored by the AF and sure I suppose the person ultimately responsible in this case is the person you named, but that is sort of irrelevant. 

I don't think the AF in general or all that many specific AF personnel have an active dislike for CAP. 

But I think it is indisputable that while local AF unit commanders generally respond positively to requests for assistance from CAP, the AF as a whole treats CAP with benign neglect.  The failure (so far) to include CAP in any meaningful way on this site is a fairly good example of this. 

[Cecil DP]

Yes, but only as an alternative to AFJROTC in communities without AFJROTC units -- the implication being that if there is AFJROTC, that is the one you should join.

The primary mission of the Holm center is the ROTC and Officer accessions, NOT CAP.

[RiverAux]

The primary mission of the Holm center is the ROTC and Officer accessions, NOT CAP.

It wasn't that even before they moved CAP-USAF over there. and by the way the primary mission of the Holms Center is

Develop the best Air Force leaders and citizens of character, dedicated to serving the Nation

so CAP fits right in there with the other aspects of the program JROTC, ROTS, and Officer Accessions. 

[Nick]

Develop the best Air Force leaders and citizens of character, dedicated to serving the Nation

so CAP fits right in there with the other aspects of the program JROTC, ROTS, and Officer Accessions.

So ... the CAP Cadet Program and Senior Professional Development programs fit right in there.  CAP as a whole, not so much.

Edit: I might even bite on the AE program falling in there.  But ES really does have a place elsewhere in the AF organization (no, I really don't want to open this door again so I won't mention where else I think it has a place).

[BillB]

I don't see the Air Force not supporting CAP as it has in the past. I see a downsized Air Force not having the personnel for that support. WWhen CAP-USAF had active duty Liaison staffs in each Wing, support was easier to obtain. But the Air Force downsized three times since that period. Air Force Squadrons have cut back on flight training to an extent due to budget cutbacks. That's not to say the pilot and flight crews are not trained, but the flight hours have been cut back.
To often CAP Commanders go to an Air Force Base, and have no idea who to contact for any support. I saw one case where a CAP Wing Staff member went to an Air Force Base in blues, and didn't even meet CAP weight standards. This gives a poor impression of CAP, and doesn't help in getting support.
The relationship between CAP-USAF and the Holm Center appears to be up in the air. Where does CAP fit in. Does it compete with AFJROTC? Or are the two organizations complementing each other? Throw in the CAP Corporation and you can see where there may be a problem for the Holm Center.

[Short Field]

But I think it is indisputable that while local AF unit commanders generally respond positively to requests for assistance from CAP, the AF as a whole treats CAP with benign neglect.  The failure (so far) to include CAP in any meaningful way on this site is a fairly good example of this.

I really don't know who you are talking about when you say "the AF as a whole".  If the local commanders are responding to our requests, then who specifically is treating us with "benign neglect"?  The two or three lower ranking people who put up the web site?

[RiverAux]

Or are the two organizations complementing each other?

According to the hoopla at the time, this is the goal.  For example, o-ride flights in CAP planes for JROTC (and the similar flights that have been authorized for ROTC for a long time). 

So ... the CAP Cadet Program and Senior Professional Development programs fit right in there.  CAP as a whole, not so much.

Edit: I might even bite on the AE program falling in there.  But ES really does have a place elsewhere in the AF organization (no, I really don't want to open this door again so I won't mention where else I think it has a place).

FYI, I was really stating their line of reasoning for it.  My own opinion on where CAP should be placed is different (and is a topic of numerous other threads).

If the local commanders are responding to our requests, then who specifically is treating us with "benign neglect"?

In this case, the Holm Center, which is now responsible for CAP issues in the AF.  Hence this thread.  There are other threads discussing other ways the AF doesn't do as much as it could to support CAP (and conversely there are other threads about how CAP could do more to help the AF-- though that is more the case of the AF apparently not being interested in using us rather than CAP ignoring them). 

[NCRblues]

Another thread about "The Air Forces doesn't (fill in the blank).".    Do you even know who you are talking about when you say "The Air Force"?  When I hear that phrase, I think of the Secretary of the Air Force and the Chief of Staff USAF since they are the two senior policy/decision makers in the USAF. 

If you are complaining about the Holm Center, you are really complaining about Brig Gen Djuric.  So your thread title should be "Failure by Brig Gen Teresa A. H. Djuric to include CAP on the Holm Center web site".    Send her a e-mail complaining about this and I am sure you will get a response.

In the St Louis area, who has went to the local base and met the commander?  That is the person who will sit the tone for your USAF support locally.   We have senior wing leadership that makes it a point to met our local USAF base commanders and we get great support. 

Some people make it sound like there is a secret room someplace where the "Air Force" meets to see how they can downplay CAP.  The reality is the USAF leaders, from the top all the way down to your local base commanders, are too busy trying to get their mission accomplished to worry about another two-star general's organization.   If there is a problem that falls under their control, they will address it when it is brought to their attention.  They didn't get to the positions they have today by ignoring problems.  If a local CAP unit wants support, they will probably support you within their ability.  But you have to open up communications with them first. 

Also remember, Commanders come and Commanders go.  So if you happen to find a rare non-supportive commander, wait two years and work on the replacement.   I know a Air Force Association Chapter that had to do this with a base commander.

What base in the St Louis area? The nearest base to St Louis is Scott, which is in Illinois, which is located in a different wing and region, so no help there. The wing has already gone to Whiteman AFB, and asked, and we get the smile and nod, but then we get the "our mission here is undergoing massive change's and we just can't help, sorry, come back after global strike command is stood up" So where do units turn for our parent organization's help, when there is none around? Not being located on the Holm centers web site, just points out a current and future problem with our parent organization.

[Short Field]

In my humble opinion, i believe cap is slowly moving further and further away from Ma Blue. At least in My local area, and the greater St. Louis region, Air force support with anything is unheard of. YMMV

What base in the St Louis area? The nearest base to St Louis is Scott, which is in Illinois, which is located in a different wing and region, so no help there. The wing has already gone to Whiteman AFB, and asked, and we get the smile and nod, but then we get the "our mission here is undergoing massive change's and we just can't help, sorry, come back after global strike command is stood up" So where do units turn for our parent organization's help, when there is none around? Not being located on the Holm centers web site, just points out a current and future problem with our parent organization.

What type of support are you expecting from a non-local base?   Orientation flgihts?  Access to base facilities?   And why would you go to a base 100+ miles away when you have one 10 miles away?   I would be really surprised to find out that Scott AFB didn't want to talk to you since you weren't in the same state.  They really don't care what CAP wing owns you. 

[NCRblues]

Scott AFB is about an hour away from my location, not 10 miles, Whiteman is in the state, so naturally thinking, our wing commander went to the air force base inside the wing for things like access to base facilities for cap members and just general support. Cap members have to be sponsored onto Scott and Whiteman now; it used to be we were granted access to clothing sales, or meeting locations on base. When I Sent an email to both bases Public affairs about the situation, the responses were due to a security shift and due to CAP only be AF AUX during missions. A dependent child has less trouble sponsoring his teenage friends on base than we as cap members do getting on base in uniform. With my cac card I have access to the base, so several times I have gone onto base and purchased uniform items for members. The general reaction to cap, is a smile and a "that's nice, but you're not real" attitude from almost everyone on these bases. Cap, inside the air force, is looked upon like the red headed step child no one wants to deal with. They smile and say nice things until we leave and then say thank god the wannabe's are gone.  We follow the rules the Air force puts down, we run everything (basically) we do by the air force, so I believe that the higher ranking personnel in the Air force should do more than just pay us the lip service and do something about truly supporting us.