Agenda

[arajca]

The Feb 2009 Agenda is out!

[Eclipse]

Care to share?  Or will it remain hidden?

[Pylon]

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/NB_2009_Feb_Agenda_BD2E1427664DC.pdf

[Eclipse]

Page 78, Commander's Badge:

"...NHQ Comments: Vanguard is already in the processing of manufacturing a cloth
commanders badge. This badge is currently authorized for sitting unit and group
commanders so the change, if approved, would authorize any one who has ever
served as a unit or group commander to wear the badge..."

I'm not aware of the CC's badge ever being authorized anywhere on the BDU's, the fact that there isn't an embroidered one made yet not withstanding.

If you want to have former CC's wear the badge below the seam, on service dress and corporates, when they step down, fine, but not on the BDU - sitting only.  And then you have to make changes to the pluto and the ES badge placement as well, or better still, lose them altogether.

Also, please authorize the dark tapes on everything, please, please, please.  It would not be cost prohibitive for the average member, especially with a reasonable phase-out.

[bosshawk]

FYI: the agenda is 90 pages: excellent for inducing sleep.  A huge number of items to be covered: they will need all of the two days of the meeting.

[arajca]

Here are some comments I sent forward to my wing/cc:

I found the agenda for the Feb National Board meeting is available. In reading it, I found Item 29j "Change of Embroidery Insignia on AF-Style Uniforms" to be interesting. I would ask that you offer the following as amendments to this item:
    Expand this to include the field uniform, aka bbdu's.
    Increase the phase in period to 36 months. This period would serve to spread out the financial impact to the members.
    Add a requirement that all insignia, badges, and tapes must have the same color backgrounds during the phase in period.

   Also, in reading item 29g, "Wear of Military Decorations and Badges on Corporate Uniforms", I recalled reading in an ICL that military ribbons were authorized if the awarding service permits their wear on civilain uniforms. At the time, I had sent a request to the Army to see what their rules were. Their response was roughly if the organization allows it, the Army will allow it. Since CAP did not expressly state, in my opinion, that is was permitted, I let the issue lie. I would ask that the services (USAF, USA, USMC, USN, UCSG) be officially asked for their authorization to wear their respective ribbons and/or badges on the CAP corporate uniforms. That would remove any confusion or question as to the appropriateness of wearing military ribbons and/or badges.

   Item 29a,"Silver Braid on CAP Corporate Uniform", a suggestion is made to replace the comissioning braid on the service dress uniforms with another color. Obviously, blue would be the best choice, but if that was not acceptable to the AF, perhaps red could be considered. It would be a nod to CAP's heritage, as red was used when CAP was first established.

   Item 14,"HC - Ch. Services Training and Promotion Requirements", para 5 says "Since the SLS and CLC can now be completed online". When did this occur? I know the materials are available online, but actual completion of the courses? I'm sure you noticed it, but I wanted to bring it up.

   Item 8,"DP - CAP Member Standardized Recognition Program", instead of a regulation, a handbook or pamphlet should be developed. It would provide guidance to commanders without restricting their ability to reward performance. In some online forums, members have mentioned that some commanders do not submit/approve awards because they have no guidance, while others submit awards that are over-the-top.

[MIKE]

h. Optional Shoulder Patches on BDU: Col Benckert, VT/CC
When the Civil Air Patrol adopted the wear of the reverse U.S. flag on the BDU
uniform several years ago, previously authorized special activity and school patches
were moved to the pocket. In some wings, this action moved to relocate special
activity/organizational patches that have significant historical ties both to esprit de
corps within the wing and qualifications.

Proposal: That the National Board approves, at the discretion of the member's
wing commander, the wear of previously approved optional patches in place of the
wing patch.

Say what?  If it was a previously approved activity patch... it would be in CAPM 39-1, and would have moved to the left pocket with the addition of the reversed flag.  Seems to me that someone is seeking authorization for some kind of not in CAPM 39-1 i.e. unauthorized home-grown activity patch.

[Pylon]

h. Optional Shoulder Patches on BDU: Col Benckert, VT/CC
When the Civil Air Patrol adopted the wear of the reverse U.S. flag on the BDU
uniform several years ago, previously authorized special activity and school patches
were moved to the pocket. In some wings, this action moved to relocate special
activity/organizational patches that have significant historical ties both to esprit de
corps within the wing and qualifications.

Proposal: That the National Board approves, at the discretion of the member's
wing commander, the wear of previously approved optional patches in place of the
wing patch.

Say what?  If it was a previously approved activity patch... it would be in CAPM 39-1, and would have moved to the left pocket with the addition of the reversed flag.  Seems to me that someone is seeking authorization for some kind of not in CAPM 39-1 i.e. unauthorized home-grown activity patch.

It sounds like they're talking about how Hawk Mountain grads in PAWG wore/wear the Hawk patch in place of the Wing patch instead of in the proper activity patch location.

Frankly, I have to non-concur.  If an activity or qualification warrants a patch, get it approved as an activity/qualification patch and wear it where all of the other activity/qualification patches go. 

[Eclipse]

Pylon got there first...   

[MIKE]

HMRS not withstanding, some wings up this way do have/had patches for in-house activities that you will not find in the manual...  I can't speak specific to VTWG, but I know of a few others including one right here in MAWG. 

[Eclipse]

HMRS not withstanding, some wings up this way do have/had patches for in-house activities that you will not find in the manual...  I can't speak specific to VTWG, but I know of a few others including one right here in MAWG. 

But those aren't approved in any case, and wouldn't be covered by this change.

[MIKE]

But those aren't approved in any case, and wouldn't be covered by this change.

Apparently the VT/CC thinks differently, else he would have got into specifics...

[PhoenixRisen]

If CAP wants to provide a secure web portal for official business, we could do that, but at what cost? My law firm requires official business to be conducted thru our servers and email, so that we don't import viruses or other banned software. If CAP does that, that would be great.

Found that under a proposal regarding confidentiality of e-mail.  Maybe all the stuff I posted (and that was previously posted) on the subject might become a reality.

[RiverAux]

Seems like the Chief of Chaplains is doing what he can to try to get Chaplain promotion requirements integrated with what other senior members are supposed to do (very commendable), but NHQ doesn't want to go along.  Basically they seem to say that because chaplains are "professionals" making them do what other seniors do will hurt CAP.  

-----

Ta da!  Proposal to extend NIMS deadlines -- I told you that it was coming....

--

Judging by some of the proposals, there seems to be a little bit of infighting going on between some members of the National Board and the NEC and the NB members are looking to keep some control in their hands.  

---
Seems like CAP-USAF was out to lunch and didn't comment on much this time.  
----
Who thinks that commanders who sew on a commanders badge in one place when they are in command are actually going to take the time to swith it to a differenct place when they are no longer in that position?  Why in the world do we need to identify former commanders anyway?
---
Seems like everyone non-concurs with any items requiring AF approval automatically.  Seems like turning something down because you would have to ask the AF to approve it is sort of stupid.  

[Major Carrales]

Also, please authorize the dark tapes on everything, please, please, please.  It would not be cost prohibitive for the average member, especially with a reasonable phase-out.

I just dumped a pretty penny on setting up nametapes et al on BDUs, plus the 15 plus new cadets at Kingsville to get them up there at quite a significant cost to me and cadets parents (some cadets did odd jobs to pay for it)  It has not been easy, especially in this economy when Cadet Parents are between jobs or making major cuts due to lost funds (real, not theory, in these cases)

I don't think making changes to BDUs is a way to go, in fact I will lobby against it strongly. Dark blue tapes on BBDUs will be fine, or on whatever replaces the BDUs. 

Start thinking with your head and wallet.

[lordmonar]

Page 78, Commander's Badge:

"...NHQ Comments: Vanguard is already in the processing of manufacturing a cloth
commanders badge. This badge is currently authorized for sitting unit and group
commanders so the change, if approved, would authorize any one who has ever
served as a unit or group commander to wear the badge..."

I'm not aware of the CC's badge ever being authorized anywhere on the BDU's, the fact that there isn't an embroidered one made yet not withstanding.

If you want to have former CC's wear the badge below the seam, on service dress and corporates, when they step down, fine, but not on the BDU - sitting only.  And then you have to make changes to the pluto and the ES badge placement as well, or better still, lose them altogether.

Also, please authorize the dark tapes on everything, please, please, please.  It would not be cost prohibitive for the average member, especially with a reasonable phase-out.

I submitted the suggestion to create a cloth badge for bdus, alowing to be worn on the flight suit and to allow former commanders to wear it below the line over two years ago.

I wonder if it was my suggestion or someone else's who finally got it on the NB agenda.

[Eclipse]

There's no way NHQ can accommodate units and members who are fronting for cadets and others in large numbers - if you choose to do that, good on 'ye, but that doesn't change the per-uniform cost, nor should that influence uniform policy.

$10-15 a uniform, with a multi-year phase in isn't going to kill anyone. (the actual cost is more like $3 a shirt, but most suppliers require you buy 3 tapes at a time.  Some creative ordering can help soften the cost).

Considering that VG seems unable to get ultramarine anymore (which is weird since its readily available all over the place), I'd say its likely on the Blue Field Uniform, and, after some gnashing of teeth by Big brother, will go on the BDU as well.

Now, if they time it right, and let's say its 2011 for ABU's, then they could sundown ultramarine tapes the same time the authorize the ABU, and we all move on smiling.

I will say that VG's challenges in getting Ultramarine bode well for our getting at least dark blue, if not "other" if and when ABU's come down the street.

[Major Carrales]

There's no way NHQ can accommodate units and members who are fronting for cadets and others in large numbers - if you choose to do that, good on 'ye, but that doesn't change the per-uniform cost, nor should that influence uniform policy.

$10-15 a uniform, with a multi-year phase in isn't going to kill anyone.

Considering that VG seems unable to get ultramarine anymore (which is weird since its readily available all over the place), I'd say its likely on the Blue Field Uniform, and, after some gnashing of teeth by Big brother, will go on the BDU as well.

Now, if they time it right, and let's say its 2011 for ABU's, then they could sundown ultramarine tapes the same time the authorize the ABU, and we all move on smiling.

I will say that VG's challenges in getting Ultramarine bode well for our getting at least dark blue, if not "other" if and when ABU's come down the street.

We are not fronting cadets anything, I'm thinking of their parents.  Unhappy parents means <<GONE>> cadets.  These are trying times in a lot of places and I'll be dog gone if were are going to make people waste money just so that some long time uniform focused people can see a minute change.

But I digress a bit, lest you remind me that I'm about looking for compromises and solutions to these things.

I would suggest that instead of a "phase out" have the two authorized forever, when (as you claim) the ultramarine runs out it will solve itself naturally.  Then only old die hards will continue with ultramarine.  In fact, I will bet money that if this were the policy by 2015 some of the "lets get rid of the ultramarine" crowd would be the ones wearing them and seeking them out.

Then there will be a reversal of the norm, whereas now some people loath the ultramarine they will nostaglically cling to them.

[Smokey]

Ulatramarine blue needs to GO....far away.

The color went out in the 70s.  It hurts my eyes. 

Those who want to stick with it over dark blue probably have advocado kitchen appliances and purple shag carpeting at home.

[Eclipse]

I would suggest that instead of a "phase out" have the two authorized forever, when (as you claim) the ultramarine runs out it will solve itself naturally.  Then only old die hards will continue with ultramarine.  In fact, I will bet money that if this were the policy by 2015 some of the "lets get rid of the ultramarine" crowd would be the ones wearing them and seeking them out.

I'm not making the claim on not being able to get Ultramarine, Vanguard is (or at least that is what is indicated in the Agenda).

BTW - I'll take that bet.  Given the choice, anyone who can will change out their tapes in the first 6 months - mine will be ordered the day they are approved.  After the first year, the majority of Blue field uniforms will be dark blue tapes, and more than 3/4 of the BDUs will as well.

[Smokey]

BTW....Weren't there supposed to be several more uniform change items??

Lt Col White headed up a committee that had a number of other changes that were supposed to be presented.  Any idea what happend to them??

Some included  changes to the ABU as BDUs were being phased out, some changes to the service dress, cutting back on CAP corporate uniform styles, etc.

[Major Carrales]

I would suggest that instead of a "phase out" have the two authorized forever, when (as you claim) the ultramarine runs out it will solve itself naturally.  Then only old die hards will continue with ultramarine.  In fact, I will bet money that if this were the policy by 2015 some of the "lets get rid of the ultramarine" crowd would be the ones wearing them and seeking them out.

I'm not making the claim on not being able to get Ultramarine, Vanguard is (or at least that is what is indicated in the Agenda).

BTW - I'll take that bet.  Given the choice, anyone who can will change out their tapes in the first 6 months - mine will be ordered the day they are approved.  After the first year, the majority of Blue field uniforms will be dark blue tapes, and moe than 1/2 the BDUs will as well.

That's the way it always begins.  Everyone wants the news stuff, even I would have it. The "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" nametapes did that same thing, I did not buy them. But then, as the new stuff loses its "sheen," there will be those old-timers who keep it on and relish them as a sign of "been there done that."  

Especially anyone who is at this time a Cadet NCO...a time of especially acute nostalgia.  As they transition to Cadet Officer and eventualy CAP Officers they will maintain the "old set" until eventually you see them on a new set of BDUs.

"Why are your nametapes faded, Capt Nix?" Says a new cadet to the 26 year-old SPAATZEN turned Senior member.

"Well, that is how we wore them when I was a Chief." He replies.

It is the nature to be different, different with a link to the past is the same.

Now, old timer, you have to live (reference to the 2021 "Doomsday") to 2015 to see if you win the bet.  Shall we say one GOLD(brass) Sacagawea (sp) Dollar?

[Eclipse]

Now, old timer, you have to live (reference to the 2021 "Doomsday") to 2015 to see if you win the bet.  Shall we say one GOLD(brass) Sacajawea (sp) Dollar?

Works for me.  

[Eclipse]

Lt Col White headed up a committee that had a number of other changes that were supposed to be presented.  Any idea what happened to them??

He doesn't play with CAP anymore...no idea what happened to his committee.

[Major Carrales]

Now, old timer, you have to live (reference to the 2021 "Doomsday") to 2015 to see if you win the bet.  Shall we say one GOLD(brass) Sacagawea (sp) Dollar?

Works for me.  :-)

I've got three in my CAP First aid-kit (satire on our Health Officer's Track...or lack of resolve to make it an operational one), thus, when we need serious medical help...change for the pay phone.

[DogCollar]

Here are some comments I sent forward to my wing/cc:

I found the agenda for the Feb National Board meeting is available. In reading it, I found Item 29j "Change of Embroidery Insignia on AF-Style Uniforms" to be interesting. I would ask that you offer the following as amendments to this item:
    Expand this to include the field uniform, aka bbdu's.
    Increase the phase in period to 36 months. This period would serve to spread out the financial impact to the members.
    Add a requirement that all insignia, badges, and tapes must have the same color backgrounds during the phase in period.

   Also, in reading item 29g, "Wear of Military Decorations and Badges on Corporate Uniforms", I recalled reading in an ICL that military ribbons were authorized if the awarding service permits their wear on civilain uniforms. At the time, I had sent a request to the Army to see what their rules were. Their response was roughly if the organization allows it, the Army will allow it. Since CAP did not expressly state, in my opinion, that is was permitted, I let the issue lie. I would ask that the services (USAF, USA, USMC, USN, UCSG) be officially asked for their authorization to wear their respective ribbons and/or badges on the CAP corporate uniforms. That would remove any confusion or question as to the appropriateness of wearing military ribbons and/or badges.

   Item 29a,"Silver Braid on CAP Corporate Uniform", a suggestion is made to replace the comissioning braid on the service dress uniforms with another color. Obviously, blue would be the best choice, but if that was not acceptable to the AF, perhaps red could be considered. It would be a nod to CAP's heritage, as red was used when CAP was first established.

   Item 14,"HC - Ch. Services Training and Promotion Requirements", para 5 says "Since the SLS and CLC can now be completed online". When did this occur? I know the materials are available online, but actual completion of the courses? I'm sure you noticed it, but I wanted to bring it up.

   Item 8,"DP - CAP Member Standardized Recognition Program", instead of a regulation, a handbook or pamphlet should be developed. It would provide guidance to commanders without restricting their ability to reward performance. In some online forums, members have mentioned that some commanders do not submit/approve awards because they have no guidance, while others submit awards that are over-the-top.

Obviously, I looked at the Chaplain Corp item and I, too, wondered about online SLS and CLC.  Chaplain Woodard seems to believe that this is presently available.  I haven't seen anything that has led to the belief that those courses are going to ever be online.

I don't have any problem whatsoever with Chaplains needing to take those courses for promotion, however, I certainly want to be sure that Chaplain Woodard is correct before making this proposal.  Has anyone else heard about online SLS and CLC?

[Eclipse]

Has anyone else heard about online SLS and CLC?

No.

He's either confused (ala Level 1 is "online") or misquoted.  There's no allowance for SLS/CLC/TLC or UCC to be completed online, and considering the first three are updated discussion-based curriculum designed as much to being members together as to impart information, online completion would very much miss the point.

Most of the other things we do online are either prerequisites to related training where the concepts are both reinforced or practical execution is required in an operational environment.

[Strick]

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought we did not need AF approval for our corporate uniform so why ask permission to use the blue braid.  Why change the silver?  IT cost money to membership.  They need to leave the uniforms alone .

[Pylon]

Correct me if I am wrong, I thought we did not need AF approval for our corporate uniform so why ask permission to use the blue braid.

I would imagine because the blue braid itself is an Air Force item.  It's basically taking a part of the Air Force uniform and slapping it on our corporate threads.  The Air Force controls use of all of their uniforms and any associated appurtenances, in theory.

[dwb]

I would have to non-concur on any color changes for cloth rank insignia.  The ABU is in our future, even if it's 10 years down the line.  We can just wait until then to change the background color of our patches.

Some interesting stuff on there.  I'm glad to see someone thinks about what it's like to wear dress uniforms in the northern parts of the country.  We just had to wait until we had a CAP/CC from Michigan to get these things on the agenda.

[Strick]

Then why do we wear the blue AF slides , flight cap ectc with the CSU? 

[Pylon]

Then why do we wear the blue AF slides , flight cap ectc with the CSU? 

Great question.  Some people are already looking into the legality and appropriateness of that.  The original uniform itself was pushed through from concept to production at a dizzying speed, and thus a lot of these issues were never considered when it was first created.

[Strick]

understood

[AlphaSigOU]

Personally, I can do without the gaudy silver sleeve braid on the CSU service dress jacket. Red sleeve braid - even though it hearkens back to old-school CAP heritage - isn't going to help the gaudiness factor either.

Back in the olden days of black and white mess dress uniforms, CAP used to wear ultramarine blue sleeve and shoulder board braid. That might be distinctive enough to keep Ma Blue from having kittens sideways over dark blue commisioning braid - or eliminate it altogether. (Yea, I know, we're looking for a way to permanently bury ultramarine blue...  )

Keep the silver chinstrap on the corporate bus driver cap, again if Ma Blue doesn't get conniptions over the black chinstrap for corporates.

The AF blue shoulder marks - just add CAP to 'em and be done with 'em. However, some ya-hoo will put it on AF-style and Ma Blue will have a fit.

[Eclipse]

Personally, I can do without the gaudy silver sleeve braid on the CSU service dress jacket. Red sleeve braid - even though it hearkens back to old-school CAP heritage - isn't going to help the gaudiness factor either.

The silver can go, and blank would be fine with me, but as to any other color than black, are we talking "RED" or "RED"?

[AlphaSigOU]

Personally, I can do without the gaudy silver sleeve braid on the CSU service dress jacket. Red sleeve braid - even though it hearkens back to old-school CAP heritage - isn't going to help the gaudiness factor either.

The silver can go, and blank would be fine with me, but as to any other color than black, are we talking "RED" or "RED"?

"Old school" CAP epaulets and sleeve braid on WWII officer 'pinks and greens'/EM wools (no braid) were bright red.

And I'd betcha someone will have nightmares over maroon sleeve braid... what next, back to the 'Barry Boards'? 

Considering the corporate all-weather jacket and overcoat are black, I wouldn't have a problem with black as CSU braid. Maybe make the braid a little wider (3/4" wide) rather than 1/2" as in the AF dark blue braid?

(Never even noticed it - 1000 posts on CAPTalk - woohoo!  )

[lordmonar]

Page 78, Commander's Badge:

"...NHQ Comments: Vanguard is already in the processing of manufacturing a cloth
commanders badge. This badge is currently authorized for sitting unit and group
commanders so the change, if approved, would authorize any one who has ever
served as a unit or group commander to wear the badge..."

I'm not aware of the CC's badge ever being authorized anywhere on the BDU's, the fact that there isn't an embroidered one made yet not withstanding.

If you want to have former CC's wear the badge below the seam, on service dress and corporates, when they step down, fine, but not on the BDU - sitting only.  And then you have to make changes to the pluto and the ES badge placement as well, or better still, lose them altogether.

Also, please authorize the dark tapes on everything, please, please, please.  It would not be cost prohibitive for the average member, especially with a reasonable phase-out.

I submitted the suggestion to create a cloth badge for bdus, alowing to be worn on the flight suit and to allow former commanders to wear it below the line over two years ago.

I wonder if it was my suggestion or someone else's who finally got it on the NB agenda.

On further reading....I think this is in fact the suggestion I submitted!  Cool!  Suggestions from the field do make it to the NB!  :clap:

[AlphaSigOU]

Yay! Give that man a Pabst Blue Ribbon! (Or whatever potent potable of your choice...)

[O-Rex]

Personally, I can do without the gaudy silver sleeve braid on the CSU service dress jacket. Red sleeve braid - even though it hearkens back to old-school CAP heritage - isn't going to help the gaudiness factor either.

The silver can go, and blank would be fine with me, but as to any other color than black, are we talking "RED" or "RED"?

Naw, maybe black (?)

Army uses it on the Service Greens, at least for the next couple of years.  Even when they phase out, black mohair trim is not hard to find. . .

I like the corp uniform, but the silver sleeve braid makes one look like the doorman at the Hilton. 

Eclipse:  A number of folks made the suggestion about the CC's badge, yours-truly included (my gripe was that CC's paid five bucks for something they wouldn't get to keep.)  don't feel bad: I invented the question mark, and never got credit for it either

You never know, maybe a few more voices made the difference; reminds me of the last line of Alice's Restaurant, about enough people forming a protest/conspiracy, if any of you remember it.

Nontheless, you are a true brother and a kindred soul, so I second AlphaSigOU's motion for that PBR!!  :clap:

[RiverAux]

Then why do we wear the blue AF slides , flight cap ectc with the CSU? 

Great question.  Some people are already looking into the legality and appropriateness of that.  The original uniform itself was pushed through from concept to production at a dizzying speed, and thus a lot of these issues were never considered when it was first created.

The AF made CAP do several changes to the CSU before it was approved in this final version.  I suppose they could change their mind and say they now have an objection to something they didn't before. 

[AlphaSigOU]

Then why do we wear the blue AF slides , flight cap ectc with the CSU? 

Great question.  Some people are already looking into the legality and appropriateness of that.  The original uniform itself was pushed through from concept to production at a dizzying speed, and thus a lot of these issues were never considered when it was first created.

The AF made CAP do several changes to the CSU before it was approved in this final version.  I suppose they could change their mind and say they now have an objection to something they didn't before. 

That might very well happen, but I think the major hangups Ma Blue had from the initial ram-jam of the TPU a couple of years back have been smoothed out. If Ma Blue wants us to wear gray CAP shoulder marks, I don't have a problem; I still feel a little 'hinky' wearing RealAirForce® blue shoulder marks on the CSU shirt, unless they bring back the old CAP blue marks only for the CSU.

[ThorntonOL]

Do you watch NCIS AlphaSigOU?
Now to the topic, anything on the Senior Officer Course that they are working on?

[CAP_truth]

1. CC badge for former commanders thats why we have a Command Service Ribbon.
2. Silver braid out Black, Ultramarine Blue , Dark Navy Blue (darker that uniform) GOOD. Red, Yellow, Green or Orange BAD!!
3. Silver chin strap on hat should be black.
4. Military ribbons on corporate uniform should be authorized. I would not like to see a Medal o Honor, Silver Star,  Bronze Star or Purple Heart member unable to wear awards for Bravery on corporate uniforms.
5. Miniature medals on corporate service uniform for formal occasion a good ideal.

[AlphaSigOU]

Do you watch NCIS AlphaSigOU?
Now to the topic, anything on the Senior Officer Course that they are working on?

Once in a while... 

I put my name in for the focus group working on the new course, but have heard zilch from the echelons above reality... 

[AlphaSigOU]

1. CC badge for former commanders thats why we have a Command Service Ribbon.
2. Silver braid out Black, Ultramarine Blue , Dark Navy Blue (darker that uniform) GOOD. Red, Yellow, Green or Orange BAD!!
3. Silver chin strap on hat should be black.
4. Military ribbons on corporate uniform should be authorized. I would not like to see a Medal o Honor, Silver Star,  Bronze Star or Purple Heart member unable to wear awards for Bravery on corporate uniforms.
5. Miniature medals on corporate service uniform for formal occasion a good ideal.

Ditch the Command Service Ribbon. It looks too similar to the Community Service Ribbon. Former squadron and group commanders deserve a more tangible recognition for the job they got roped into do or have done. Wing kings and region rajahs already get the NEC/NB badge.

Agree on everything else.

[RiverAux]

1. CC badge for former commanders thats why we have a Command Service Ribbon.

Actually they're going to get rid of the ribbon in favor of the badges.  Because we have a ribbon we have no need for badges (insert movie quote). 

[arajca]

Do you watch NCIS AlphaSigOU?
Now to the topic, anything on the Senior Officer Course that they are working on?

Once in a while... 

I put my name in for the focus group working on the new course, but have heard zilch from the echelons above reality... 

I also volunteered and haven't heard anything. A friend of mine did and was told he didn't make the first cut. Appearently, they had more interest then they counted on.

[Cecil DP]

1. CC badge for former commanders thats why we have a Command Service Ribbon.

Actually they're going to get rid of the ribbon in favor of the badges.  Because we have a ribbon we have no need for badges (insert movie quote). 

Currently , only sitting commanders get to wear the badege. The CSR was to show prior command experience.

[Gunner C]

Personally, I can do without the gaudy silver sleeve braid on the CSU service dress jacket. Red sleeve braid - even though it hearkens back to old-school CAP heritage - isn't going to help the gaudiness factor either.

The silver can go, and blank would be fine with me, but as to any other color than black, are we talking "RED" or "RED"?

Naw, maybe black (?)

Army uses it on the Service Greens, at least for the next couple of years.  Even when they phase out, black mohair trim is not hard to find. . .

I like the corp uniform, but the silver sleeve braid makes one look like the doorman at the Hilton. 

Eclipse:  A number of folks made the suggestion about the CC's badge, yours-truly included (my gripe was that CC's paid five bucks for something they wouldn't get to keep.)  don't feel bad: I invented the question mark, and never got credit for it either

You never know, maybe a few more voices made the difference; reminds me of the last line of Alice's Restaurant, about enough people forming a protest/conspiracy, if any of you remember it.

Nontheless, you are a true brother and a kindred soul, so I second AlphaSigOU's motion for that PBR!!  :clap:

When I saw that in the agenda I immediately thought of black braid - Army officer braid is a bit wider IIRC (I'll have to drag out my greens and compare.)  It'll probably look pretty good, especially compared to that aluminum ring around the sleeve.

I guess a CC badge would be OK.  I think it makes more sense than a ribbon.

The Chaplain Corps (not Corp) change is just nothing more than eyewash.  Let'm be a service. Keep them on the Group W bench. 

[CAP_truth]

Do you watch NCIS AlphaSigOU?
Now to the topic, anything on the Senior Officer Course that they are working on?

Once in a while... 

I put my name in for the focus group working on the new course, but have heard zilch from the echelons above reality... 

I also volunteered and haven't heard anything. A friend of mine did and was told he didn't make the first cut. Appearently, they had more interest then they counted on.

I received and email from national headquarter's that I made the first cut. Lets see what happens next

[A.Member]

A lot of uniform items on the agenda again.  

[DogCollar]

[When I saw that in the agenda I immediately thought of black braid - Army officer braid is a bit wider IIRC (I'll have to drag out my greens and compare.)  It'll probably look pretty good, especially compared to that aluminum ring around the sleeve.

I guess a CC badge would be OK.  I think it makes more sense than a ribbon.

The Chaplain Corps (not Corp) change is just nothing more than eyewash.  Let'm be a service. Keep them on the Group W bench. 

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the Group W bench?

[Rotorhead]

A lot of uniform items on the agenda again.  

For some reason, CAP spends an inordinate (and, I think, unhealthy) amount of time worrying about what its members will wear.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

[When I saw that in the agenda I immediately thought of black braid - Army officer braid is a bit wider IIRC (I'll have to drag out my greens and compare.)  It'll probably look pretty good, especially compared to that aluminum ring around the sleeve.

I guess a CC badge would be OK.  I think it makes more sense than a ribbon.

The Chaplain Corps (not Corp) change is just nothing more than eyewash.  Let'm be a service. Keep them on the Group W bench. 

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the Group W bench?

It was the area for rejects at the draft office in the song "Alice's Restaurant".

Drink for knowing!

[DogCollar]

[When I saw that in the agenda I immediately thought of black braid - Army officer braid is a bit wider IIRC (I'll have to drag out my greens and compare.)  It'll probably look pretty good, especially compared to that aluminum ring around the sleeve.

I guess a CC badge would be OK.  I think it makes more sense than a ribbon.

The Chaplain Corps (not Corp) change is just nothing more than eyewash.  Let'm be a service. Keep them on the Group W bench. 

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the Group W bench?

It was the area for rejects at the draft office in the song "Alice's Restaurant".

Drink for knowing!

Ah...I see.

[davedove]

A lot of uniform items on the agenda again.  

For some reason, CAP spends an inordinate (and, I think, unhealthy) amount of time worrying about what its members will wear.

That's because there is no real policy on uniform direction, just a bunch of people sitting around saying "Why don't we do this?"

[arajca]

IF they work these now, AND do not bring up uniform items for the rest of the year, it would be great. Then, maybe, perhaps, possibly, the NB/NEC can get down to real business.

Yea, that's a big if 

[cap235629]

[When I saw that in the agenda I immediately thought of black braid - Army officer braid is a bit wider IIRC (I'll have to drag out my greens and compare.)  It'll probably look pretty good, especially compared to that aluminum ring around the sleeve.

I guess a CC badge would be OK.  I think it makes more sense than a ribbon.

The Chaplain Corps (not Corp) change is just nothing more than eyewash.  Let'm be a service. Keep them on the Group W bench. 

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the Group W bench?

It was the area for rejects at the draft office in the song "Alice's Restaurant".

Drink for knowing!

Ah...I see.

Coming home from the last Sarex (2 hour ride) I indoctrinated another generation of litterbugs when 2 cadets listened to the whole song, twice, and loved every minute of it (I did have to explain a few things between replays)

Kid, have you ever been arrested? LMAO

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Who thinks that commanders who sew on a commanders badge in one place when they are in command are actually going to take the time to swith it to a differenct place when they are no longer in that position?  Why in the world do we need to identify former commanders anyway?

I do.

Commanders are ultimately responsible for compliance with CAPM 39-1. Commanders continue to lead by example once they leave a command post.

This must mean the NB is considering patterning wear rules for the command badge that mimic the Air Force's (that sitting commanders wear the badge ABOVE the name tag, and that graduated commanders wear it 1/2 inch below the service-coat nametag.)

The command badge is authorized to be worn on flight-suit nametags, so extending it to the BDU is logical. Now if some of these NASCAR patches would disappear (all shoulder patches, ES patches, special activity patches), maybe we could clean up the uniform!

[Eclipse]

The command badge is authorized to be worn on flight-suit nametags,

In CAP?  Cite please.

[PhoenixRisen]

Now if some of these NASCAR patches would disappear (all shoulder patches, ES patches, special activity patches), maybe we could clean up the uniform!

Keep dreamin'.... 

[AlphaSigOU]

The command badge is authorized to be worn on flight-suit nametags,

In CAP?  Cite please.

Not in current 39-1 or ICLs. However, Vanguard will allow you to order a 2-badge leather flight suit nametag. CC emblem they consider specialty insignia (not specialty track!) like GT/medical/IC/EMT.

In the current AFI 36-2903 the CC badge on the flight suit nametag is only for sitting commanders.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

The command badge is authorized to be worn on flight-suit nametags,

In CAP?  Cite please.

(looking around in regs, but know it isn't there -- was it an ICL?)

Vanguard put it on mine, after saying that not only could they do ground-team badges, but command badges.

Of course, I had to have them send a second nametag, after they misspelled my name the first time around. The second time, they didn't get it quite right, but at least they spelled the name they had on the tag right. I surrendered at that point.

Wish the NB would authorize cloth flight-suit nametags. They'd be a lot better to have than those stiff leather ones.

[Eclipse]

The command badge is authorized to be worn on flight-suit nametags,

In CAP?  Cite please.

Not in current 39-1 or ICLs. However, Vanguard will allow you to order a 2-badge leather flight suit nametag. CC emblem they consider specialty insignia (not specialty track!) like GT/medical/IC/EMT.

That may be so, and we all know of alternative sources for these things, but I believe that the only thing actually authorized are wings or specialty insignia. (for CAP nametags)  The CC badge is not a specialty insignia as defined by 39-1.

Until March 2007 it was Aeronautical ratings, only.  The March 2007 NB changed it to include "specialty insignia", but that would not include a command badge.

And of course none of this is in 39-1, which still says aeronautical rating only.

[lordmonar]

In my original proposal I did ask for the flight suit option.  I wonder if that is still being looked at or not.

[MikeD]

A lot of uniform items on the agenda again.  

For some reason, CAP spends an inordinate (and, I think, unhealthy) amount of time worrying about what its members will wear.

And misses the big ones like ABU, or at least green boots with BDU's in the interm...