As real as it gets

[Short Field]

Do they still promote NG Officers higher when called to active Duty anymore, and then revert them back once their AD time is over?  Or did we get rid of that system?

The 1981 Defense Officer Personnel Management Act (DOPMA) cleaned it all up - for better or worse.  Here is a link that explains it:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R4246/R4246.sec2.pdf

Five star rank came into use during WWII.  Omar Bradley was the last General of the Army (DOR 20 Sept 1950).  

[mikeylikey]

Cool........THANK YOU!

[SarDragon]

Having served as a Marine for 10 years, I wouldn't use Heartbreak Ridge. It gives a terrible view of the Marine Corps, both officers and enlisted. The two officers who were featured were pitiful and the platoon were a bunch of losers. Gunny Highway was a drunken brawler who was chasing after the wife who had left him. I guess he didn't get the hint when she walked out the door.

Ah man.....you ruined it for me, I just ordered from Netflix!  Back to my netflix Que to cancel that one!

Eh, watch it anyway. It's as entertaining as Stripes, but in its own way.

"Adapt, improvise, overcome."

[Cecil DP]

Do they still promote NG Officers higher when called to active Duty anymore, and then revert them back once their AD time is over?  Or did we get rid of that system?

The 1981 Defense Officer Personnel Management Act (DOPMA) cleaned it all up - for better or worse.  Here is a link that explains it:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R4246/R4246.sec2.pdf

Five star rank came into use during WWII.  Omar Bradley was the last General of the Army (DOR 20 Sept 1950).  

Actually General Pershing was authorized to wear 5 when he was appointed as General of the Armies, but continued to wear 4 until  Marshall, MacArthur, Arnold, and Eisenhower received their appointments to General of the Army. At that point he started to wear 5 until his death. He could have worn 6 at that time.

Trivia: The act that gave them 5 stars also mandated their pay as $25,000/year. It was never changed so that Bradley had to move onto Ft Bliss in order to have access to medical care. His aides who were Cols and below were all making more than he was.

[ColonelJack]

Col. McEleney ...

Do you know of any photographs of Pershing wearing five stars?  I'd be interested in seeing them. 

The five-star rank carries one other interesting "benefit":  You're on active duty for life once appointed to that rank.  Unless, like Ike did, you actually resign from the Army (he did to run for President, and resumed his rank after his term in office).

For $25,000 a year?  Hah.  Congress should've realized when the upped officer pay in the '60s and '70s that Bradley was stuck where he was and was still on active duty.  Poor guy.

Jack

[Steve Silverwood]

"Learn from the mistakes of others... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!"

OK, now that is as appropriate a quote for this day and age as anything I've seen.  Source?

The five-star rank carries one other interesting "benefit":  You're on active duty for life once appointed to that rank.  Unless, like Ike did, you actually resign from the Army (he did to run for President, and resumed his rank after his term in office).

Actually, Congress restored Eisenhower to his military rank after the conclusion of his presidency.

FYI to all: the sole reason for the existence of the five-star rank was simply to have a rank equal to that of Field Marshal so that in Allied operations you wouldn't have a foreign Field Marshal taking orders from someone of lower rank (i.e., a four-star General).

CecilDP: Watch "Heartbreak Ridge" anyway.  It's true, I wouldn't want to use the movie as a leadership training tool, but it is satisfying to watch.  (I won't elaborate until after you've seen the movie.)

[jimmydeanno]

^Did that come off the CAP Safety poster they sent out last year?

[JohnKachenmeister]

I ran a SLS, and the new SLS curriculum is pretty lame.  I substituted two movies from the "Approved" list that I considered more relavant to the topic than what was suggested.  (This brought down the wrath of the Wing God of Professional Development, but I can handle it.)

The ones I put in are:

1.  Patton.  The scene from where he calls Bradley and is told that there is "Some activity" up north, through his ruminations about the likelihood of a German winter offensive, his staff briefing, and ending where he is briefing Beedle Smith and says he can "Attack with two divisions in 24 hours."  I used that for intro into "Communications as a Squadron Staff Officer" to show them what a good staff should be able to do.

2.  Patton, 12 O'Clock High, and Heartbreak Ridge.  I showed a medley of the Patton opening speech, the takeover of the faltering bomb group (starting with the smoke with the driver and ending with the "You're already dead" speech, and Clint Eastwood introducing himself to his troops.  Each was a different style of communication, and each was intended for a different audience and situation. 

For cadets, I'd cut out the Clint Eastwood speech.  I'm wild, not reckless.

Having served as a Marine for 10 years, I wouldn't use Heartbreak Ridge. It gives a terrible view of the Marine Corps, both officers and enlisted. The two officers who were featured were pitiful and the platoon were a bunch of losers. Gunny Highway was a drunken brawler who was chasing after the wife who had left him. I guess he didn't get the hint when she walked out the door.
[/quote]

The point wasn't to emulate his lifestyle, the point was to analyze his communication technique.

In the Patton speech, which was given to troops about to embark on the D-Day invasion of Normandy, the speech was to inspire and assure them of ultimate victory.

In the 12-O'Clock High speech, the general was taking over a command that was suffering losses due to timid tactics and indulgent leadership.  He had to bring them back into the Air Corps fast, and he started with the slack MP at the gate and continued down the line.

In the Heartbreak Ridge segment, Highway was taking over a platoon of losers, sitting in civilian clothes, drinking beer during the duty day, and oblivious to the arrival of a new NCO.  He had to so something shocking and intense to get their attention.

The lesson wasn't that throwing the boom box is an approved communications technique, the lesson was that different techniques are called for with different audiences and situations.  One-size-fits-all rarely fits anybody.

[JohnKachenmeister]

"Learn from the mistakes of others... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!"

OK, now that is as appropriate a quote for this day and age as anything I've seen.  Source?

The five-star rank carries one other interesting "benefit":  You're on active duty for life once appointed to that rank.  Unless, like Ike did, you actually resign from the Army (he did to run for President, and resumed his rank after his term in office).

Actually, Congress restored Eisenhower to his military rank after the conclusion of his presidency.

FYI to all: the sole reason for the existence of the five-star rank was simply to have a rank equal to that of Field Marshal so that in Allied operations you wouldn't have a foreign Field Marshal taking orders from someone of lower rank (i.e., a four-star General).

CecilDP: Watch "Heartbreak Ridge" anyway.  It's true, I wouldn't want to use the movie as a leadership training tool, but it is satisfying to watch.  (I won't elaborate until after you've seen the movie.)

I don't know the source of the "Mistakes" quote.  I have heard it around aviation circles since I was a 17-year old pilot trainee.

Interesting fact about Heartbreak Ridge.  The DoD refused to provide support after the script review because of one scene.  The part where Highway shoots wounded Cubans during the Grenada invasion was enough to deny DoD support.  They were cool with the rest of it.

[Cecil DP]

CecilDP: Watch "Heartbreak Ridge" anyway.  It's true, I wouldn't want to use the movie as a leadership training tool, but it is satisfying to watch.  (I won't elaborate until after you've seen the movie.)
I've seen the movie several times. I won't say it doesn't have an entertainment value, It's just an insult to the Marine Corps and all who have served.

[ZigZag911]

Really obscure, and I don't recall the author, but it was a great read and offered many insights into Army life:

"Once an Eagle."

It follows the careers of two officers, a mustang and a privilged-class West Pointer from World War I to the early days of Vietnam.

Author is Anton Myrer

[Fifinella]

Henry V (Shakespeare), the motivational speech before the Battle of Agincourt:

Henry V : Eve of Saint Crispin's Day speech: - "This day is called the feast of Crispian: He that outlives this day, and comes safe home, Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named, And rouse him at the name of Crispian. He that shall live this day, and see old age, Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours, And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:' Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars. And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.' Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages What feats he did that day: then shall our names. Familiar in his mouth as household words Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester, Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd. This story shall the good man teach his son; And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be remember'd; We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition: And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_V_%281989_film%29

[Cecil DP]

Col. McEleney ...

Do you know of any photographs of Pershing wearing five stars?  I'd be interested in seeing them. 

Jack

The articles I've managed to find contradict what I reported. pershing was senior to the 5 stars, but the insignia he chose to wear when appointed General of the Armies was 4 Gold stars vice silver of the General grade. There was a proposal to bury him wearing 6 stars but it was overruled to burying him with the 4 gold stars.

[SarDragon]

Henry V (Shakespeare), the motivational speech before the Battle of Agincourt:

Henry V : Eve of Saint Crispin's Day speech: -

That was also quoted in Renaissance Man.

[O-Rex]

Henry V (Shakespeare), the motivational speech before the Battle of Agincourt:

Henry V : Eve of Saint Crispin's Day speech: -

That was also quoted in Renaissance Man.

In "Ike, Countdown to D-day," Eisenhower and his staff are seen watching the movie.  Don't know if they really did: the film was actually released after the D-day invasion, but it illustrates a point.

Here are some others: "In love & war" was a book (and a made for TV movie) about Adm. Stockdale's years as a POW.  Another one is McCain's "Faith of our Fathers" which is on video.

Also, if anyone has ACSC CD's 4.0 or 4.1, there is a video lecture on accountability, about Bud Holland's B-52 crash in 1994, and the events leading up to it.  It recounts all of the commanders and staff who "looked the other way" regarding Holland's behavior, culminating in the crash at the airshow, killing Holland and three other crewmembers (the video footage is an eye-opener.)  Out of all of the ACSC coursework and videos, that one made the biggest impact on me.

[jimmydeanno]

Here are some others: "In love & war" was a book (and a made for TV movie) about Adm. Stockdale's years as a POW. 

Not to be confused with In Love and War starring Sandra Bullock and Chris O'Donnell about Ernest Hemmingway during WWI.

In Love and War About Admiral Stockdale.


Here is another for the list: Command Decision:

General Dennis of the US Force in England in World War II finds that he must order his planes deeper and deeper into Germany to prevent the production of military jet planes that will turn the tide of battle to the Germans. He must fight congressmen, and his own chain of command to win the political battle before he can send his planes out. His problem is complicated by a very narrow window of good weather necessary to allow his effort to be successful. Adapted from a stage play, it attempts to look at the challenges of command in the political arena.

[Steve Silverwood]

Really obscure, and I don't recall the author, but it was a great read and offered many insights into Army life:

"Once an Eagle."

It follows the careers of two officers, a mustang and a privilged-class West Pointer from World War I to the early days of Vietnam.

Ken Follett also wrote a non-fiction book, On Wings of Eagles, describing how Ross Perot and some of his EDS execs pulled off a rescue of two of their comrades from Iran back when Khomeini took over.  Excellent book, I've read it several times.  They made a TV movie of it, starring Richard Crenna as Ross Perot, which I've also watched several times.

I wouldn't mind working for a guy like that.

//Steve//