As real as it gets

[O-Rex]

I've seen some recent threads in which there is a military/civilian "culture gap" that seems frustrating for both prior and non-prior military CAP members. 

Being a military-style organization, for those in CAP with no military experience, understanding some of the nuances of the Profession of Arms might be helpful to achieve some common frame of reference with those who've BTDT.

Obviously there is no substitute for training, experience, and just "being there,"  but for some of our members, the military was either not possible, not completed or not on their "radar" way back when, and that opportunity has come and gone.  Nonetheless they continue to make contributions through CAP for which I'm sure we are all appreciative.

In an effort to provide some kind of insight into the Military, and it's culture, ethos, and idiosyncrasies, we might compile a list of movies and literature that actually portray the essence military life, particularly the challenge of command, rather than  comic book-like caricatures, stereotypes and cliches. 

For example, "12 O'clock high" was on the ACSC list of must-see movies, as well as "Glory."   James Caan starred in "A glimpse of Hell" which was about the turret explosion on the USS Iowa in 1989.  "Band of Brothers" stands out too.

Books would include Philip Caputo's "A Rumor of War,"  James MacDonough's "Platoon Leader," Nathaniel Fick's "One Bullet Away,"  "Seal!" by Michael Walsh (who very much counters Dick Marchinko's semi-fiction books) Let's not forget "It does't take a hero" by Schwartzkopf. Tom Clancy has some good non-fiction books; one for each of the services, like "Armored Cav" and "Carrier."  Also include the ones with the not-so-happy endings, like "The Right Thing" by Scott Waddle, and "Soldier!" by Anthony Herbert.

Even fiction like Layne Heath's "CW2" or Ward Carroll's "Punk's War/Punk's Wing/Punk's Fight" trilogy.

Anyway, you get the idea: suggestions that focus on getting inside the military mind and lifestyle, instead of prettyboys/girls, martial-artists, hip background music and inane quips like "I feel the need for speed. . "

Any others?

[Short Field]

Harold G. Moore & Thomas Galloway's "We were Soldiers Once and Young"

WEB Griffin's "The Brotherhood of War" and "The Corps" series

[Slim]

I have to second Griffin's "Brotherhood of War" and "The Corps" series'.  Read both of them many times.  For fiction, both really take you inside the mind of the characters and help understand the culture (and subcultures) of the military.

Another good read (if you can find it) is "The Wild Blue" which I think was written by Walter Thompson and Walter Boyne.  Haven't read it in a while, and it's on my list to hit again.  Similar to "Brotherhood of War", but one book covering a span of time from the 50s-70s.  Very handy for getting into the mind of the Air Force from many different angles.

I was privileged to watch "We Were Soldiers" with a good friend of mine who served in the 7th Cav (think he was 3rd Bn, and got there well after the Ia Drang battle).  Not only the leadership lessons, but the realism (as verified) was top notch.

More good ones are "Blackhawk Down", "Gardens of Stone", "Windtalkers" and "The Great Raid."  All entertaining movies, but with a lot of leadership lessons and getting the viewer into the culture of the military.

[Eclipse]

Ender's Game - Orson Scott Card
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game
(I am not a big fan of the rest of the series, Ender's Shadow being an exception)
This book surprised me, as it spends a lot of time involved in leadership theory and group dynamics, it is especially useful in helping to understand the "cadet mentality" - children thrust into positions of leadership and authority before they are capable of emotionally coping with the situation.

Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers
Considering it was written in 1959, its remarkably current in regards to governmental situations and technology.  Anyone with a general knowledge of politics would certainly consider his "history" of the world's governments as plausible. Don't dismiss it because of the movie.  This book is on the reading list of the 4 academies, and of the Army, Marines and Navy (at the least).  A large portion involves the "why" people join the military and similar "bigger then the sum of its parts" organizations.

[mikeylikey]

Books:

In the Company of Heroes / Michael J. Durant
Black Hawk pilot Mike Durant was shot down and taken prisoner during military operations in the failed country of Somalia in 1993. Published in the tenth anniversary year of that conflict, this riveting personal account at last tells the world about Durant's harrowing captivity and the heroic deeds of his comrades.

Company Commander / Charles B. MacDonald
This is an autobiographical account of a young officer's experiences as an American rifle company commander in France during the Second World War. Fresh from the States, MacDonald led Normandy veterans through the Battle of the Bulge and the invasion of Germany. This absorbing story about the development of leadership in combat is worthwhile reading for all company-grade officers and NCOs who are entrusted with the lives of American Soldiers.

The Soldier and the State: The Theory and Politics of Civil-Military Relations / Samuel Huntington
Blending the disciplines of history, sociology, and political science, Huntington's study is required reading for the Army officer. The author develops a theoretical framework with which to analyze civil- military relations. Particularly noteworthy in this study is the preliminary discussion, "Officership as a Profession." The arguments that Huntington has set forth in this section have colored the American military's self-perception for an entire generation.

Of course the best you can do is pick up a new (or at least no older than 3 years) copy of the Air Force Officers Guide.  There are also "Army Officers Guide, Naval Officers Guide" etc.  IT should be the BASIC reading for all new CAP Officers.  We play on the AF team, perhaps we should get an insight into what being an AF Officer means.  These books have been around more than 50+ years and are full of good info.  I would love to see a chapter placed in the book on "Civil Air Patrol, AF Auxiliary Officership". 

As far as movies go, HBO's band of brothers is excellent.  I always did like every Jimmy Stewart movie made (especially his war movies).  SAC is a good one, very dated though. 

I am in the process of getting a primer created for the PAWG distance ed site.  It will be basic military education material related to being a junior Officer, adjusting to military organizations, and CAP specific Officer needs, abilities, traits and duties.  I have many DVDs from the DOD sitting at work/home, and Colgan has many I sent him.  I hope to have the whole thing done by Mid November. 

You see, AFIADL courses are great, but interactive on line courses, are even better. 

DAVIS (DOD depository of everything media related) is open for CAP members to pull videos on DVD, training material and other things.  If you want, I will send anyone the link if they PM me. 

Sorry about getting "off-course"!

[O-Rex]

"Gardens of Stone"

I read the book: having spent time at Ft. Huachuca during various phases of my Army Career (never came out in the movie) it REALLY took me back...

I just finished "Rolling Thunder" by Mark Berent-fantastic: Although fiction, it takes you through the first year of Operation Rolling Thunder 65-66, from a thud squadron at Bien Hoa, to the Pentagon-gives a full spectrum across the chain of command.

[mikeylikey]

Anyway, you get the idea: suggestions that focus on getting inside the military mind and lifestyle, instead of prettyboys/girls, martial-artists, hip background music and inane quips like "I feel the need for speed. . "

So are you saying the TV show "Army Wives" does not give a glimpse into the military world?  I will answere that......No it doesn't!

[Becks]

Ender's Game - Orson Scott Card


Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein

Funny, both are sitting no more than 2 feet from me. 

[O-Rex]

So are you saying the TV show "Army Wives" does not give a glimpse into the military world?  I will answere that......No it doesn't!

I didn't even know there was a TV show called "Army Wives..."

I doubt I'm missing much: If I'm curious, I'll bet I can fish the boxed set of season 1 in the '5.99-bin' at Wal-Mart in a few months.

[Short Field]

Ender's Game - Orson Scott Card
Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein

Funny, both are sitting no more than 2 feet from me. 

Same here but a few more feet away.  Starship Trooper falls under Heinlein's "juvenile" fiction but does a great job of defining "service before self" and the responsibility that comes with command.  I try to re-read it every couple of years.  FYI:  Heinlein graduated 20th in a class of 243 at the Naval Academy, Class of 1929.  He actually stood fifth in academics but discipline considerations lowered his class standing to 20th.

If you are looking at Sci Fic, then David Weber's two series, March Upcountry (four books waiting for a fifth) and the Honor Harrington books (10+ books and counting) deserve reading.  He does a really great job of defining what a good officer is expected to do - regardless of personal consequences.  He even does a good job discussioning Officer/Enllisted relationships - something another topic here was addressing.  His books do need to be read in order.

[Slim]

"Gardens of Stone"

I read the book: having spent time at Ft. Huachuca during various phases of my Army Career (never came out in the movie) it REALLY took me back...

Mmm...Fort Huachuca, yet another place that I absolutely loved, that I'm not very likely to see again.  My ex in-laws live out that way, and my ex father-in-law retired from Huachuca.  I understand most consider it the armpit of the Army; I was impressed with the updating that was going on around the post, but seeing Grierson Field in all it's 1800's glory was pretty interesting too.  If you miss it that much, check out The Scout at http://www.huachuca.army.mil/USAG/PAO/pao_scout.cfm.  It's one of my regular stops.

Never read the book, methinks it's time to check out amazon.

[Cecil DP]

Gardens of Stone was a movie in 1987w/ James Caan, James Earl Jones. 

[ZigZag911]

Star Trek (Original Series): an episode called "The Galileo Seven", Spock commands a shuttlecraft mission that goes all wrong, his 1st independent command; also anotherOriginal Series episode, I think it's called "The Tholian Web", Spock takes command on Kirk's disappearance, with McCoy objecting strenuously....lot's of lessons in them resolving their roles.

There are a number of similar episodes in ST The Next Generation.

I think one of the finest ST views into leadership & officership, and the sacrifices it may demand, is found throughout the second feature film, "The Wrath of Khan".

[mikeylikey]

There are a number of similar episodes in ST The Next Generation.

One of my favorite TV shows of all time.  Lots of leadership lessons there.  In fact mid 1990's there were some colleges actually creating leadership courses based off ST.  Weird right?

[star1151]

One of my favorite TV shows of all time.  Lots of leadership lessons there.  In fact mid 1990's there were some colleges actually creating leadership courses based off ST.  Weird right?

Weird?  Makes me sorry I didn't get to take one!

[PhotogPilot]

As long as we're tossing Sci-Fi into the mix, Star-Trek, DS 9 fits here, lots of command issues for Sisko, Worf's development as an Officer and leader, and the Dominion War.

As far as traditional military fiction, 12 O'Clock High is IMHO one of the the best studies of command ever filmed. "We Were Soldiers" is a great adaption of a true story. 

Honorable mention goes to "Das Boot", "The Bridges of Toko-Ri" and "A Wing and a Prayer" (mainly for Don Ameche's willingness to let one of his pilots run out of fuel and die rather than risk the ship by breaking radio silence.)

[Steve Silverwood]

I don't see them listed, but there are several biographies that I feel are excellent reading:

Ike by Michael Korda -- just published this year, I believe.  Great bio of Eisenhower from his early years all the way through his presidency, with exceptional detail given to his military service.

Norman Schwartzkopf's bio, don't remember the title offhand, but it also makes for excellent reading.

I'm working on Soldier -- General Matthew Ridgway's memoirs, published in 1956.  Just started it, but it looks to be a good read.

Guys, if you want to get a handle on some excellent books, check out the History Book Club at www.historybookclub.com.  I've been a member for several years, and have amassed quite a collection.  I've read many of them, and will probably still be ordering and reading well past retirement age.  Anyone who wants to join, let me know.  Yes, I get a couple of freebies for referring new members, but I'd recommend their books to anyone regardless of the freebies.  (There is also a Military Book Club, which I also joined several years back, but they don't seem to offer nearly the breadth of material that the HBC offers.)

//Steve//

[star1151]

Norman Schwartzkopf's bio, don't remember the title offhand, but it also makes for excellent reading.

It Doesn't Take a Hero: The Autobiography of General H. Norman Schwarzkopf
Excellent book.

[ZigZag911]

One of my favorite TV shows of all time.  Lots of leadership lessons there.  In fact mid 1990's there were some colleges actually creating leadership courses based off ST.  Weird right?

Makes perfect sense to me!

Over many years in CAP I have frequently seen ST used with great success as the basis for both "regular" leadership and moral leadership discussions.

[O-Rex]

"Gardens of Stone"

I read the book: having spent time at Ft. Huachuca during various phases of my Army Career (never came out in the movie) it REALLY took me back...

Mmm...Fort Huachuca, yet another place that I absolutely loved, that I'm not very likely to see again.  My ex in-laws live out that way, and my ex father-in-law retired from Huachuca.  I understand most consider it the armpit of the Army; I was impressed with the updating that was going on around the post, but seeing Grierson Field in all it's 1800's glory was pretty interesting too.  If you miss it that much, check out The Scout at http://www.huachuca.army.mil/USAG/PAO/pao_scout.cfm.  It's one of my regular stops.

Never read the book, methinks it's time to check out amazon.

There is a section of the book that describes the "Apache Flats" housing area as well as "Colonel's Row" in the 1960's.  By the early 1980's, Apache Flats was so run down that prior to it being demolished in 1985, it was offered to E-3's and junior E-4's who didn't actually qualify for post housing (kind of "handyman specials" if you will)  A buddy of mine lived there with his new bride: the place was a dive, but to the newlyweds it was paradise, not to mention a good place for young M.I. trainees to barbecue and hang-out on a weekend pass.

The first section of the book had special meaning for me: like the protagonist Jack Willow, I went out with an Officer's Daughter who lived in one of the historic quarters "up the hill," and spent an untold number of evenings trying to get back to the barracks by 'lights out' without getting stopped by inquistive M.P's.   

Huachuca was great, then again, nearly anywhere is great when you're 18 years old.....

Get the book, DON'T see the movie.

[O-Rex]

Ike by Michael Korda -- just published this year, I believe.  Great bio of Eisenhower from his early years all the way through his presidency, with exceptional detail given to his military service.

Speaking of Ike, has anyone ever seen the HBO movie "Ike: Countdown to D-day" with Tom Selleck?  They are closing a ton of Hollywood Video locations, with the obligatory stock liquidation, and I snagged it for a buck (!)

It's all behind-the-scenes drama: no shots fired here, but its great insight on the dilemmas of policy & decision-making, as well as senior-subordinate relationships: Ike has to relieve a friend and former West Point classmate for OPSEC violations, and you get an interesting version of Ike's meeting with Patton, in which Patton eats some humble-pie.  Remember that Patton had 12 years and much seniority on Ike. Patton was USMA Class of '03 to Ike's Class of '15. Also, Patton was already a General at the time that Major Eisenhower was MacArthur' aide-de-camp in the Philippines at the outbreak of the war.

It's probably the best politics-meets-strategy movie that I've seen to-date.

[Steve Silverwood]

Speaking of Ike, has anyone ever seen the HBO movie "Ike: Countdown to D-day" with Tom Selleck?  They are closing a ton of Hollywood Video locations, with the obligatory stock liquidation, and I snagged it for a buck (!)

It's all behind-the-scenes drama: no shots fired here, but its great insight on the dilemmas of policy & decision-making, as well as senior-subordinate relationships: Ike has to relieve a friend and former West Point classmate for OPSEC violations, and you get an interesting version of Ike's meeting with Patton, in which Patton eats some humble-pie.  Remember that Patton had 12 years and much seniority on Ike. Patton was USMA Class of '03 to Ike's Class of '15. Also, Patton was already a General at the time that Major Eisenhower was MacArthur' aide-de-camp in the Philippines at the outbreak of the war.

It's probably the best politics-meets-strategy movie that I've seen to-date.

Yes, I saw it when it first ran on TV, but didn't know it was released on DVD.  I'll have to hunt for it.  Thanks for the lead!

[Walkman]

Great thread. I had just asked our Group CC for a book list on this very subject for my son. He's a WWII nut and wants to be an AF pilot. Now when I go to the library, I'll have a target list.

Thanks!

[ZigZag911]

How did I forget this one?

"The Caine Mutiny", by Herman Wouk

[JohnKachenmeister]

Really obscure, and I don't recall the author, but it was a great read and offered many insights into Army life:

"Once an Eagle."

It follows the careers of two officers, a mustang and a privilged-class West Pointer from World War I to the early days of Vietnam.

[JohnKachenmeister]

For a movie, another obscure one:

"The Gallant Hours."

James Cagney as Halsey.  He has to relieve his best friend at Guadalcanal, and uses his staff to manage the battle.  Good insights into avoiding the "Surrounding yourself with yes-men" mindset.

[NYWG Historian]

For the pathos of military life:

Up Front by Bill Mauldin

[Short Field]

"Once an Eagle."

It follows the careers of two officers, a mustang and a privilged-class West Pointer from World War I to the early days of Vietnam.

The author was Anton Myrer.  It was made into a mini-series of the same name in 1976 starring Sam Elliott.

[O-Rex]

Flight of the Intruder (book)

CAG Cmdr Campanella gives Jake Grafton a royal butt-chewing and goes into why the military must remain subordinate to civilian leadership.

It's a great monologue: reads like a chapter out of ACSC text.

[Cecil DP]

Ike by Michael Korda -- just published this year, I believe.  Great bio of Eisenhower from his early years all the way through his presidency, with exceptional detail given to his military service.

  Remember that Patton had 12 years and much seniority on Ike. Patton was USMA Class of '03 to Ike's Class of '15. Also, Patton was already a General at the time that Major Eisenhower was MacArthur' aide-de-camp in the Philippines at the outbreak of the war.

It's probably the best politics-meets-strategy movie that I've seen to-date.

Patton graduated in either 1911 or 12. MacArthur was USMA class of 03. (Marshall was a VMI grad the same year).

[Short Field]

Just FYI.  Patton was very much a "troop commander" for his career while Eisenhower was a supremely capable general staff planner. 

General Patton attended the Virginia Military Institute for one year and went on to graduate from the United States Military Academy at West Point on June 11, 1909. He was then commissioned a Second Lieutenant in the 15th cavalry Regiment.  Promotion to Major in 1920, to Lt Col in 1935, to Col in 1939, to Brig Gen in July 1940, Maj Gen in Apr 1941, to Lt Gen on 12 Mar 1943, and General in Apr 1945.  Died 21 Dec 1945.  Saw combat with Pershing in Mexico and in World War I.

General Eisenhower entered United States Military Academy, West Point, New York, June 14, 1911, and graduated June 12, 1915.  Promoted to Major in 1924, Lt Col in 1936, Col on 11 Mar 1941, Brig Gen on 3 Oct 1941, Maj Gen on 27 Mar 1942, Lt Gen on 7 Jul 1942, and General on 11 Feb 1943, and General of the Army on 20 Dec 1944.  Permanent promotions to the general ranks followed at later dates.

[SAR-EMT1]

PT-109
Honor and Country
Man Down

And I would like to comment that Tom Clancy, WEB Griffen,  Galloway and many others are all excellent and are all on my shelf.

[mikeylikey]

Not to get "too far off topic" again, is (are) there any members out there who have created a powerpoint presentation on military things to present to CAP members.  Such as, differences between Officers and Enlisted, military customs and courtesies to follow when visiting a base/post....etc. I would even go as far as asking for any presentations made to cadets that introduce them to military stuff.

THANKS

[JohnKachenmeister]

Not to get "too far off topic" again, is (are) there any members out there who have created a powerpoint presentation on military things to present to CAP members.  Such as, differences between Officers and Enlisted, military customs and courtesies to follow when visiting a base/post....etc. I would even go as far as asking for any presentations made to cadets that introduce them to military stuff.

THANKS

I ran a SLS, and the new SLS curriculum is pretty lame.  I substituted two movies from the "Approved" list that I considered more relavant to the topic than what was suggested.  (This brought down the wrath of the Wing God of Professional Development, but I can handle it.)

The ones I put in are:

1.  Patton.  The scene from where he calls Bradley and is told that there is "Some activity" up north, through his ruminations about the likelihood of a German winter offensive, his staff briefing, and ending where he is briefing Beedle Smith and says he can "Attack with two divisions in 24 hours."  I used that for intro into "Communications as a Squadron Staff Officer" to show them what a good staff should be able to do.

2.  Patton, 12 O'Clock High, and Heartbreak Ridge.  I showed a medley of the Patton opening speech, the takeover of the faltering bomb group (starting with the smoke with the driver and ending with the "You're already dead" speech, and Clint Eastwood introducing himself to his troops.  Each was a different style of communication, and each was intended for a different audience and situation. 

For cadets, I'd cut out the Clint Eastwood speech.  I'm wild, not reckless.

[ColonelJack]

I know it's off-topic, but since you mention Patton's and Eisenhower's promotion dates, I thought I would add my main man MacArthur's data (since his name came up):

Second Lieutenant, 11 Jun 1903; First Lieutenant, 23 Apr 1904; Captain, 27 Feb 1911; Major, 11 Dec 1915; Colonel (National Army), 5 Aug 1917; Brigadier General (National Army), 26 Jun 1918; Brigadier General (Regular Army), 20 Jan 1920; Major General, 17 Jan 1925; General (to serve as Chief of Staff), 21 Nov 1930; reverted to Major General 1 Oct 1935; Lieutenant General (temporary), 27 Jul 1941; General (temporary), 18 Dec 1941; General of the Army, 18 Dec 1944. 

Interestingly, MacArthur never served in the grade of lieutenant colonel.  He was a major and in charge of the National Guard Bureau in the War Department.  With the mobilization of the Guard for overseas deployment in World War I, MacArthur was promoted directly to colonel -- the grade he'd have to hold to do the job the Army needed him to do.

Also, there were two proposals to make MacArthur a General of the Armies (six-star rank equivalent) but, due to internal politics regarding General Marshall and a concern about retirement benefits, the plans were dropped.  Then, when the plans were revived in 1962-1963, the assassination of President Kennedy and MacArthur's own death scuttled them.

MacArthur is also the only American officer to ever hold the rank of "Field Marshal" -- a position he held with the Philippine Army prior to World War II.  That reminds me of the reason our five-star rank was called General of the Army (or the apocryphal reason, anyway).  Seems that the idea was to call it Field Marshal like everyone else, but one of the men who'd get the rank -- George C. Marshall -- didn't want to be addressed as "Marshal Marshall," so the title was changed.  True?  I don't know, but it makes a great story.

Did I ever mention that MacArthur's portrait hangs on my office wall at home?

Jack

[Short Field]

I know it's off-topic, but since you mention Patton's and Eisenhower's promotion dates, I thought I would add my main man MacArthur's data (since his name came up):

Actually I think it is on-topic as it shows several of us have read enough history that we too easily get drawn into minor historical discussion.  One trait shared by most successful generals and admirals is that they read lots of military history - especially that which was related to their field of warfare.  That trait applies to any field of endeavor.

Reading lists are good and help create a more common background of knowledge.  However, I would highly recommend to the younger members to read a lot - and include both the highly recommend books and ones that you just find on the bookshelf.   Just because a book isn't highly rated doesn't mean it is bad - or that it doesn't contain that one page that puts a major concept into perspective.   There are only two ways to expand your experience level - (1) do things yourself and (2) share how other people did things.  That is what books do for you.  And I would rather read about Custer's Last Stand than have been there.

But continue on with the good books....

[JohnKachenmeister]

I know it's off-topic, but since you mention Patton's and Eisenhower's promotion dates, I thought I would add my main man MacArthur's data (since his name came up):

Actually I think it is on-topic as it shows several of us have read enough history that we too easily get drawn into minor historical discussion.  One trait shared by most successful generals and admirals is that they read lots of military history - especially that which was related to their field of warfare.  That trait applies to any field of endeavor.

Reading lists are good and help create a more common background of knowledge.  However, I would highly recommend to the younger members to read a lot - and include both the highly recommend books and ones that you just find on the bookshelf.   Just because a book isn't highly rated doesn't mean it is bad - or that it doesn't contain that one page that puts a major concept into perspective.   There are only two ways to expand your experience level - (1) do things yourself and (2) share how other people did things.  That is what books do for you.  And I would rather read about Custer's Last Stand than have been there.

But continue on with the good books....

"Learn from the mistakes of others... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!"

[mikeylikey]

Do they still promote NG Officers higher when called to active Duty anymore, and then revert them back once their AD time is over?  Or did we get rid of that system?

Also, why don't we have a five star right now?  Does it have to be a Declared War?

Funny to read that some Officers "skipped" some steps along the way.  Sounds like CAP.  ("Hey Lt Joe, since you are  Group Commander now because you know the Wing Commander, and your have only been in a year, here is your Major")

[Cecil DP]

I ran a SLS, and the new SLS curriculum is pretty lame.  I substituted two movies from the "Approved" list that I considered more relavant to the topic than what was suggested.  (This brought down the wrath of the Wing God of Professional Development, but I can handle it.)

The ones I put in are:

1.  Patton.  The scene from where he calls Bradley and is told that there is "Some activity" up north, through his ruminations about the likelihood of a German winter offensive, his staff briefing, and ending where he is briefing Beedle Smith and says he can "Attack with two divisions in 24 hours."  I used that for intro into "Communications as a Squadron Staff Officer" to show them what a good staff should be able to do.

2.  Patton, 12 O'Clock High, and Heartbreak Ridge.  I showed a medley of the Patton opening speech, the takeover of the faltering bomb group (starting with the smoke with the driver and ending with the "You're already dead" speech, and Clint Eastwood introducing himself to his troops.  Each was a different style of communication, and each was intended for a different audience and situation. 

For cadets, I'd cut out the Clint Eastwood speech.  I'm wild, not reckless.

[/quote]

Having served as a Marine for 10 years, I wouldn't use Heartbreak Ridge. It gives a terrible view of the Marine Corps, both officers and enlisted. The two officers who were featured were pitiful and the platoon were a bunch of losers. Gunny Highway was a drunken brawler who was chasing after the wife who had left him. I guess he didn't get the hint when she walked out the door.

[mikeylikey]

Having served as a Marine for 10 years, I wouldn't use Heartbreak Ridge. It gives a terrible view of the Marine Corps, both officers and enlisted. The two officers who were featured were pitiful and the platoon were a bunch of losers. Gunny Highway was a drunken brawler who was chasing after the wife who had left him. I guess he didn't get the hint when she walked out the door.

Ah man.....you ruined it for me, I just ordered from Netflix!  Back to my netflix Que to cancel that one!

[Short Field]

Do they still promote NG Officers higher when called to active Duty anymore, and then revert them back once their AD time is over?  Or did we get rid of that system?

The 1981 Defense Officer Personnel Management Act (DOPMA) cleaned it all up - for better or worse.  Here is a link that explains it:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R4246/R4246.sec2.pdf

Five star rank came into use during WWII.  Omar Bradley was the last General of the Army (DOR 20 Sept 1950).  

[mikeylikey]

Cool........THANK YOU!

[SarDragon]

Having served as a Marine for 10 years, I wouldn't use Heartbreak Ridge. It gives a terrible view of the Marine Corps, both officers and enlisted. The two officers who were featured were pitiful and the platoon were a bunch of losers. Gunny Highway was a drunken brawler who was chasing after the wife who had left him. I guess he didn't get the hint when she walked out the door.

Ah man.....you ruined it for me, I just ordered from Netflix!  Back to my netflix Que to cancel that one!

Eh, watch it anyway. It's as entertaining as Stripes, but in its own way.

"Adapt, improvise, overcome."

[Cecil DP]

Do they still promote NG Officers higher when called to active Duty anymore, and then revert them back once their AD time is over?  Or did we get rid of that system?

The 1981 Defense Officer Personnel Management Act (DOPMA) cleaned it all up - for better or worse.  Here is a link that explains it:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R4246/R4246.sec2.pdf

Five star rank came into use during WWII.  Omar Bradley was the last General of the Army (DOR 20 Sept 1950).  

Actually General Pershing was authorized to wear 5 when he was appointed as General of the Armies, but continued to wear 4 until  Marshall, MacArthur, Arnold, and Eisenhower received their appointments to General of the Army. At that point he started to wear 5 until his death. He could have worn 6 at that time.

Trivia: The act that gave them 5 stars also mandated their pay as $25,000/year. It was never changed so that Bradley had to move onto Ft Bliss in order to have access to medical care. His aides who were Cols and below were all making more than he was.

[ColonelJack]

Col. McEleney ...

Do you know of any photographs of Pershing wearing five stars?  I'd be interested in seeing them. 

The five-star rank carries one other interesting "benefit":  You're on active duty for life once appointed to that rank.  Unless, like Ike did, you actually resign from the Army (he did to run for President, and resumed his rank after his term in office).

For $25,000 a year?  Hah.  Congress should've realized when the upped officer pay in the '60s and '70s that Bradley was stuck where he was and was still on active duty.  Poor guy.

Jack

[Steve Silverwood]

"Learn from the mistakes of others... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!"

OK, now that is as appropriate a quote for this day and age as anything I've seen.  Source?

The five-star rank carries one other interesting "benefit":  You're on active duty for life once appointed to that rank.  Unless, like Ike did, you actually resign from the Army (he did to run for President, and resumed his rank after his term in office).

Actually, Congress restored Eisenhower to his military rank after the conclusion of his presidency.

FYI to all: the sole reason for the existence of the five-star rank was simply to have a rank equal to that of Field Marshal so that in Allied operations you wouldn't have a foreign Field Marshal taking orders from someone of lower rank (i.e., a four-star General).

CecilDP: Watch "Heartbreak Ridge" anyway.  It's true, I wouldn't want to use the movie as a leadership training tool, but it is satisfying to watch.  (I won't elaborate until after you've seen the movie.)

[jimmydeanno]

^Did that come off the CAP Safety poster they sent out last year?

[JohnKachenmeister]

I ran a SLS, and the new SLS curriculum is pretty lame.  I substituted two movies from the "Approved" list that I considered more relavant to the topic than what was suggested.  (This brought down the wrath of the Wing God of Professional Development, but I can handle it.)

The ones I put in are:

1.  Patton.  The scene from where he calls Bradley and is told that there is "Some activity" up north, through his ruminations about the likelihood of a German winter offensive, his staff briefing, and ending where he is briefing Beedle Smith and says he can "Attack with two divisions in 24 hours."  I used that for intro into "Communications as a Squadron Staff Officer" to show them what a good staff should be able to do.

2.  Patton, 12 O'Clock High, and Heartbreak Ridge.  I showed a medley of the Patton opening speech, the takeover of the faltering bomb group (starting with the smoke with the driver and ending with the "You're already dead" speech, and Clint Eastwood introducing himself to his troops.  Each was a different style of communication, and each was intended for a different audience and situation. 

For cadets, I'd cut out the Clint Eastwood speech.  I'm wild, not reckless.

Having served as a Marine for 10 years, I wouldn't use Heartbreak Ridge. It gives a terrible view of the Marine Corps, both officers and enlisted. The two officers who were featured were pitiful and the platoon were a bunch of losers. Gunny Highway was a drunken brawler who was chasing after the wife who had left him. I guess he didn't get the hint when she walked out the door.
[/quote]

The point wasn't to emulate his lifestyle, the point was to analyze his communication technique.

In the Patton speech, which was given to troops about to embark on the D-Day invasion of Normandy, the speech was to inspire and assure them of ultimate victory.

In the 12-O'Clock High speech, the general was taking over a command that was suffering losses due to timid tactics and indulgent leadership.  He had to bring them back into the Air Corps fast, and he started with the slack MP at the gate and continued down the line.

In the Heartbreak Ridge segment, Highway was taking over a platoon of losers, sitting in civilian clothes, drinking beer during the duty day, and oblivious to the arrival of a new NCO.  He had to so something shocking and intense to get their attention.

The lesson wasn't that throwing the boom box is an approved communications technique, the lesson was that different techniques are called for with different audiences and situations.  One-size-fits-all rarely fits anybody.

[JohnKachenmeister]

"Learn from the mistakes of others... you won't live long enough to make them all yourself!"

OK, now that is as appropriate a quote for this day and age as anything I've seen.  Source?

The five-star rank carries one other interesting "benefit":  You're on active duty for life once appointed to that rank.  Unless, like Ike did, you actually resign from the Army (he did to run for President, and resumed his rank after his term in office).

Actually, Congress restored Eisenhower to his military rank after the conclusion of his presidency.

FYI to all: the sole reason for the existence of the five-star rank was simply to have a rank equal to that of Field Marshal so that in Allied operations you wouldn't have a foreign Field Marshal taking orders from someone of lower rank (i.e., a four-star General).

CecilDP: Watch "Heartbreak Ridge" anyway.  It's true, I wouldn't want to use the movie as a leadership training tool, but it is satisfying to watch.  (I won't elaborate until after you've seen the movie.)

I don't know the source of the "Mistakes" quote.  I have heard it around aviation circles since I was a 17-year old pilot trainee.

Interesting fact about Heartbreak Ridge.  The DoD refused to provide support after the script review because of one scene.  The part where Highway shoots wounded Cubans during the Grenada invasion was enough to deny DoD support.  They were cool with the rest of it.

[Cecil DP]

CecilDP: Watch "Heartbreak Ridge" anyway.  It's true, I wouldn't want to use the movie as a leadership training tool, but it is satisfying to watch.  (I won't elaborate until after you've seen the movie.)
I've seen the movie several times. I won't say it doesn't have an entertainment value, It's just an insult to the Marine Corps and all who have served.

[ZigZag911]

Really obscure, and I don't recall the author, but it was a great read and offered many insights into Army life:

"Once an Eagle."

It follows the careers of two officers, a mustang and a privilged-class West Pointer from World War I to the early days of Vietnam.

Author is Anton Myrer

[Fifinella]

Henry V (Shakespeare), the motivational speech before the Battle of Agincourt:

Henry V : Eve of Saint Crispin's Day speech: - "This day is called the feast of Crispian: He that outlives this day, and comes safe home, Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named, And rouse him at the name of Crispian. He that shall live this day, and see old age, Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours, And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:' Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars. And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.' Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages What feats he did that day: then shall our names. Familiar in his mouth as household words Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester, Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd. This story shall the good man teach his son; And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be remember'd; We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition: And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_V_%281989_film%29

[Cecil DP]

Col. McEleney ...

Do you know of any photographs of Pershing wearing five stars?  I'd be interested in seeing them. 

Jack

The articles I've managed to find contradict what I reported. pershing was senior to the 5 stars, but the insignia he chose to wear when appointed General of the Armies was 4 Gold stars vice silver of the General grade. There was a proposal to bury him wearing 6 stars but it was overruled to burying him with the 4 gold stars.

[SarDragon]

Henry V (Shakespeare), the motivational speech before the Battle of Agincourt:

Henry V : Eve of Saint Crispin's Day speech: -

That was also quoted in Renaissance Man.

[O-Rex]

Henry V (Shakespeare), the motivational speech before the Battle of Agincourt:

Henry V : Eve of Saint Crispin's Day speech: -

That was also quoted in Renaissance Man.

In "Ike, Countdown to D-day," Eisenhower and his staff are seen watching the movie.  Don't know if they really did: the film was actually released after the D-day invasion, but it illustrates a point.

Here are some others: "In love & war" was a book (and a made for TV movie) about Adm. Stockdale's years as a POW.  Another one is McCain's "Faith of our Fathers" which is on video.

Also, if anyone has ACSC CD's 4.0 or 4.1, there is a video lecture on accountability, about Bud Holland's B-52 crash in 1994, and the events leading up to it.  It recounts all of the commanders and staff who "looked the other way" regarding Holland's behavior, culminating in the crash at the airshow, killing Holland and three other crewmembers (the video footage is an eye-opener.)  Out of all of the ACSC coursework and videos, that one made the biggest impact on me.

[jimmydeanno]

Here are some others: "In love & war" was a book (and a made for TV movie) about Adm. Stockdale's years as a POW. 

Not to be confused with In Love and War starring Sandra Bullock and Chris O'Donnell about Ernest Hemmingway during WWI.

In Love and War About Admiral Stockdale.


Here is another for the list: Command Decision:

General Dennis of the US Force in England in World War II finds that he must order his planes deeper and deeper into Germany to prevent the production of military jet planes that will turn the tide of battle to the Germans. He must fight congressmen, and his own chain of command to win the political battle before he can send his planes out. His problem is complicated by a very narrow window of good weather necessary to allow his effort to be successful. Adapted from a stage play, it attempts to look at the challenges of command in the political arena.

[Steve Silverwood]

Really obscure, and I don't recall the author, but it was a great read and offered many insights into Army life:

"Once an Eagle."

It follows the careers of two officers, a mustang and a privilged-class West Pointer from World War I to the early days of Vietnam.

Ken Follett also wrote a non-fiction book, On Wings of Eagles, describing how Ross Perot and some of his EDS execs pulled off a rescue of two of their comrades from Iran back when Khomeini took over.  Excellent book, I've read it several times.  They made a TV movie of it, starring Richard Crenna as Ross Perot, which I've also watched several times.

I wouldn't mind working for a guy like that.

//Steve//