My dilemma...

[a2capt]

Complaints require a lot of off in a corner work.

Oh boy do they.

[Private Investigator]

My rule of thumb has been (as it relates to volunteer work): When it ceases to be fun (by that I mean...a source of joy, sense of fulfillment - both personally and professionally, etc), it's time to move on.   Notice I said it relates to volunteer work....there are other commitments in life that demand sacrifice, dedication, perseverance which demands the time and energy.  Volunteer work is simply that...volunteer.   You can choose whether or not to devote yourself to a certain task, organization, etc.

Lots of great advice by everyone but I think the Chaplain nailed it.

You have to have fun and fun varies greatly from each of us.   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Cant join the Sea Cadets because of a Disability? Well Dang there goes my Plan D.

I explored the possibility about 10 years ago, during one of my breaks in service from CAP.

I contacted the nearest unit repeatedly and heard nothing back from them.

Finally I contacted their national organisation...one of their higher-ups contacted me and I told him my story (several years in CAP and the CGAUX - to show that I am not unacquainted with maritime environments), warts and all, with my disabilities, via e-mail.  He replied that he did not know if I could be accepted because of my disabilities.  About a week later one of their higher-higher ups phoned me and told me he thought "it would be best if I went back to CAP."  I asked him about my disabilities, if that played into it, and he just repeated the "go back to CAP" mantra.  Again, maybe they're allowed to get away with it since they aren't directly connected to the Navy as we are (on paper) to the AF.

[Garibaldi]

I'm facing a similar dilemma. I've been in as a SM for a number of years and I used to look forward to meetings, even as a cadet, because they were the highlight of my week. FTX that weekend? EVEN BETTER!

Now, I am disheartened. It's nothing I can really define, but lately, it's just become somewhat of a chore. I don't enjoy ES anymore, and somehow the joy I once felt about working with the cadets has evaporated. I feel that I have expended a lot of time and energy for little reward, not that I go trolling for recognition or anything.

Sometimes, I think I have lost sight of just what it is I am doing. I was spoken to, informally, about a complaint made by a cadet about a music choice I made one evening. I agreed that it was inappropriate, but it was at that moment I realized something was wrong, not necessarily with me, but with my perceptions and expectations.

I guess I expect too much. Over-familiarity with the cadets is not a good thing, and while I haven't done anything expressly wrong, it's caused me to re-evaluate just why I am here. I've lost my passion for the program. Maybe it is time to step down and come back later.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm facing a similar dilemma. I've been in as a SM for a number of years and I used to look forward to meetings, even as a cadet, because they were the highlight of my week. FTX that weekend? EVEN BETTER!

Now, I am disheartened. It's nothing I can really define, but lately, it's just become somewhat of a chore. I don't enjoy ES anymore, and somehow the joy I once felt about working with the cadets has evaporated. I feel that I have expended a lot of time and energy for little reward, not that I go trolling for recognition or anything.

Sometimes, I think I have lost sight of just what it is I am doing. I was spoken to, informally, about a complaint made by a cadet about a music choice I made one evening. I agreed that it was inappropriate, but it was at that moment I realized something was wrong, not necessarily with me, but with my perceptions and expectations.

I guess I expect too much. Over-familiarity with the cadets is not a good thing, and while I haven't done anything expressly wrong, it's caused me to re-evaluate just why I am here. I've lost my passion for the program. Maybe it is time to step down and come back later.

Wow...I'm not the only one.

I've left and returned before...but if I leave this time, it'll be for the last time.

A "music choice?"  What's that to do with anything unless you were playing gangsta rap full of profanity?  After all, in the summer I pull into the parking lot with my windows down, and my car stereo ensures that people in the next county can hear my Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc. discs.

Of course, I know how you feel about "recognition"...but that seems to be a dirty word in CAP, as if you're just in it for the bling, which most are not.

[Garibaldi]

I'm facing a similar dilemma. I've been in as a SM for a number of years and I used to look forward to meetings, even as a cadet, because they were the highlight of my week. FTX that weekend? EVEN BETTER!

Now, I am disheartened. It's nothing I can really define, but lately, it's just become somewhat of a chore. I don't enjoy ES anymore, and somehow the joy I once felt about working with the cadets has evaporated. I feel that I have expended a lot of time and energy for little reward, not that I go trolling for recognition or anything.

Sometimes, I think I have lost sight of just what it is I am doing. I was spoken to, informally, about a complaint made by a cadet about a music choice I made one evening. I agreed that it was inappropriate, but it was at that moment I realized something was wrong, not necessarily with me, but with my perceptions and expectations.

I guess I expect too much. Over-familiarity with the cadets is not a good thing, and while I haven't done anything expressly wrong, it's caused me to re-evaluate just why I am here. I've lost my passion for the program. Maybe it is time to step down and come back later.

Wow...I'm not the only one.

I've left and returned before...but if I leave this time, it'll be for the last time.

A "music choice?"  What's that to do with anything unless you were playing gangsta rap full of profanity?  After all, in the summer I pull into the parking lot with my windows down, and my car stereo ensures that people in the next county can hear my Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc. discs.

Of course, I know how you feel about "recognition"...but that seems to be a dirty word in CAP, as if you're just in it for the bling, which most are not.

It was an AC/DC song, not Highway to Hell. Someone got their little feelers hurt by it, so I took my lumps, willingly. I take all complaints about my or anyone else's behavior seriously.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As a longtime fan I know AC/DC can have some salty lyrics, but depending on the circumstances it shouldn't have become a CAP issue.

The other things you mentioned...now THOSE are significant concerns.

CAP has a schizoid way of looking at member recognition.

They say that the ribbons, promotions, etc., are our way of "getting paid" for a job well done.  However, there are others in the organisation who say that liking those things is "just being in it for the bling."

[Devil Doc]

Ive been known to Rattle and Buzz the hangers with my Boomin System, Maybe a couple times   



She was living in a single room with three other individuals.
One of them was a male and the other two, well, the other two were females.
God only know what they were up to in there.
And furthermore Susan, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that all four of them
Habitually smoke marijuana cigarettes...... reefers

Just because I play the Song, dont mean I do the Act.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

At least CAP can't keep you out because of your favourite style of music, although I would be somewhat reluctant to crank up my classic Judas Priest, Motörhead, Saxon, Rush or Blue Öyster Cult albums in the presence of the National CC.

Iron Maiden would be another story, since their singer, Bruce Dickinson, is a rated airline pilot and flew RAF personnel out of Afghanistan in 2008...a good candidate for RAFVR(T)?

Seriously, I believe I am going to renew.  However, it may be for the last time.  If, in a year's time, I am in the same position I am now, it will be time to say farewell.

Expecting extroverts, or at least non-introverts, to read books or otherwise educate themselves on someone else's problem is just looking for...if not excuses...then "relief" from the burden of fixing the issue yourself.

The only person who is going to care that being an introvert is holding you back, is YOU. 

If you have ever had to manage introverts, doing research on different personality types can make you a more effective manager...unless you're the type of "manager" who just says "change your personality or you're out of here."  I've known those types as well, and usually I pull the eject handle once I notice that.  I remember in my Developmental Psychology class that most of our personality traits are "hard-wired" into us by early childhood.  I have always been an introvert; the real hard work has been accepting that as a valid part of myself, even in a culture that does not value or validate it.

You may well be too "baked" to be able to radically alter your personality, but if you KNOW the reason you're not getting what you want is because of "X", just go Costanza and
do the opposite of what your instincts tell you. 

I have to say that I have never watched an episode of Seinfeld in my life, so that beyond knowing the reference, I have no idea what "going Costanza" means.

If you step on toes, who cares?   Those people seem disinclined to care about your experience, so why care about theirs?  If you leave a wake, at least you'll be remembered.

I have to chuckle at that one a little, because going way back to junior high school parent-teacher conferences, up to employee reviews, I was always a paradox.

Some said that I was the most polite and gentlemanly of sorts, while others said...other things, including a recommendation to my parents that I be put in a reform school.

I have never been afraid to step on toes - sometimes too ready, in fact, if I perceive my back to be to the wall.  I have left jobs with both glowing recommendations and a middle finger on the way out.

It all depends on how I have been treated.  I really try to put the Golden Rule into practice in my life, but I don't let anyone step on me.

Probably the best way I can put it is that I can get along with anyone who wants to get along with me.

[Garibaldi]

I've decided that 20+ years in the program just ain't enough yet. I'm sticking around as there are a few cadets who I want to see grow up in the program. They are doing well enough that they are getting noticed and I want to see their future. It's them I'm here for, not some stick-in-the-mud people. You're always going to offend someone, I guess, no matter how hard you try. Even if I don't stay active, I'll keep sending in the money and renewing, because I believe enough in the program's efficacy.

[SarDragon]

I've decided that 20+ years in the program just ain't enough yet. I'm sticking around as there are a few cadets who I want to see grow up in the program. They are doing well enough that they are getting noticed and I want to see their future. It's them I'm here for, not some stick-in-the-mud people. You're always going to offend someone, I guess, no matter how hard you try. Even if I don't stay active, I'll keep sending in the money and renewing, because I believe enough in the program's efficacy.

Amen. I did "pay, no play" for ten years because of my faith in the overall benefits of CAP.

[Devil Doc]

Membership Renewal Notice

Your membership is due for renewal in 52 day/s.

Click here to renew.


Hmm...  I think I qualify  for Red Service Ribbon? It will be 2 years July 31st.  Soo... 65 Bucks for a Red Service Ribbon, and 6 more hours for the Volunteer Ribbon, so that will be 5 Total Ribbons.

Good thing I dont do CAP for the Ribbons

[Simplex]

It's hard for me to see someone with your experience and interest get sat upon by a promotion board. Was it an actual board where you sat in front of a panel, or an admin board where they reviewed your record without you present? Regardless, there should be some type of an explanation for their decision. Good points bad points, strengths and weaknesses. If not, why not. I can understand your stress level as I've been there myself. All the previous posts have offered excellent advice. I would encourage you to take a second look and see what might suit your needs. Your physical limitations should not be a factor, speech included. This almost smacks of discrimination.  Good luck!

[DoubleSecret]

CAP has a schizoid way of looking at member recognition.

They say that the ribbons, promotions, etc., are our way of "getting paid" for a job well done.  However, there are others in the organisation who say that liking those things is "just being in it for the bling."

I find that very few of the people who level that accusation at others are willing to volunteer to "level down" to plain SMWOG and put their bling where their mouths are.  Funny, that.

In my opinion, if an approval authority roadblocks a promotion but isn't isn't willing to articulate how a candidate is falling short of "performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended" or other criteria, that approval authority isn't "performing in an exemplary manner."  Don't hide the ball.  Have the difficult conversation.  If you don't value the member or their contributions, tell them.  And then tell them why. 

[Eclipse]

Don't hide the ball.  Have the difficult conversation.  If you don't value the member or their contributions, tell them.  And then tell them why.

Cyborg can defend himself, but for clarity, they have told him exactly why.   It's been discussed in other threads and includes membership lapses, some
squadron mobility, and a current slow-down in participation.

If I was the one who had to make the decision, I'd be hard-pressed to disagree, based on what I know of the situation.

Whether or not it is "fair" depends a lot on the perspective.

[JeffDG]

In my opinion, if an approval authority roadblocks a promotion but isn't isn't willing to articulate how a candidate is falling short of "performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended" or other criteria, that approval authority isn't "performing in an exemplary manner."  Don't hide the ball.  Have the difficult conversation.  If you don't value the member or their contributions, tell them.  And then tell them why.

Picking a nit, it's not the responsibility of the commander to show that the member is not "performing in an exemplary manner", as proving a negative is logically impossible.  In my opinion, the burden is on the member to establish that they are performing in such a manner.

Generally speaking, a status quo does not require a burden of proof.  If a member wants to promote, then it's the member who bears to burden of proof, whatever that may be.  If a commander wants to demote the member, then the commander bears the burden of proof.  Maintaining status quo is not a demotion.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It's hard for me to see someone with your experience and interest get sat upon by a promotion board. Was it an actual board where you sat in front of a panel, or an admin board where they reviewed your record without you present?

The first time, I was not present, nor was I asked to be.  I was only given a written statement signed by the CC.

The second time, I was present...because I demanded to be.  I basically took the attitude, since I'd nothing to lose anyway, that "I ain't leavin' till you give me a chance to air my side of it."

It actually turned out relatively positive and there were written recommendations made...but right after that both my wife and I hit a serious wall (as in potentially life-threatening) in terms of health problems and I requested a leave of absence and relief from duty positions.  It's only recently that I have started to ease back into the unit, which of course means that the recommendations made will have to be revised.

Regardless, there should be some type of an explanation for their decision. Good points bad points, strengths and weaknesses. If not, why not. I can understand your stress level as I've been there myself. All the previous posts have offered excellent advice. I would encourage you to take a second look and see what might suit your needs. Your physical limitations should not be a factor, speech included. This almost smacks of discrimination.  Good luck!

I did contact EEO at NHQ, and, without going into too much detail, if the unit would have refused to hear my grievances, I would have gone through with it.

Cyborg can defend himself, but for clarity, they have told him exactly why.   It's been discussed in other threads and includes membership lapses, some squadron mobility, and a current slow-down in participation.

Membership lapses and squadron mobility were, except for a couple of cases, inexorably tied to the fact that I got married and moved around.  The "couple of cases" had to do with personality conflicts.

After all, I was with my first squadron with six years of unbroken service, working my way from SMWOG to Captain and Deputy CC.

If I was the one who had to make the decision, I'd be hard-pressed to disagree, based on what I know of the situation.

That's just it...you only know what I and others have told you.  It is quite different face-to-face.

Whether or not it is "fair" depends a lot on the perspective.

And, without gettting into it with you again, your perspective is incomplete.

Picking a nit, it's not the responsibility of the commander to show that the member is not "performing in an exemplary manner", as proving a negative is logically impossible.  In my opinion, the burden is on the member to establish that they are performing in such a manner.

It is also logically impossible to quantify based on trying to guess the CC's definition of that.  I am not a clairvoyant.  Either tell me what I'm doing right/wrong, or quit screwing around with me and speaking in generalities.  Period.

I have done promotion reviews for cadets in CAP, and I have done employee reviews.  In both cases, I try to enumerate and make things as watertight (in writing) as possible, so the person on the receiving end knows exactly what I have expected, with no guesswork.

Just tell me what you want and expect from me.  It isn't rocket science.  "Exemplary" to one CC may mean "at least s/he keeps her nose clean" to another.

I find that very few of the people who level that accusation at others are willing to volunteer to "level down" to plain SMWOG and put their bling where their mouths are.  Funny, that.

When I rejoined CAP in '09, I asked my unit CC to start me out at SMWOG and let me work my way back up.  However, she got my grade reinstated, and I think it is because at heart she is such a decent person.

Nonetheless, I think it created more problems than it solved.

[Eclipse]

That's just it...you only know what I and others have told you.  It is quite different face-to-face.

That's how it usually is, isn't it?

Reams of text, inexorable detail, multiple PMs, and then someone disagrees with the poster "we don't have the whole story".

You can't expect to have any sort of meaningful internet conversation if no matter the responses, "there's always more detail".

So then why bother?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

That's just it...you only know what I and others have told you.  It is quite different face-to-face.

That's how it usually is, isn't it?

Reams of text, inexorable detail, multiple PMs, and then someone disagrees with the poster "we don't have the whole story".

You can't expect to have any sort of meaningful internet conversation if no matter the responses, "there's always more detail".

So then why bother?

Only in the sense that, even as detailed as a cyber-conversation may be (and, whether you believe me or not, I have greatly valued your input), it is not possible to really know a person based on those conditions.

I have found in life that "there's (almost) always more detail."

But, really, this is kind of moot since I have, as I have said before, accepted that I will never be promoted beyond Captain.  Acceptance does not mean approval; it is just an acknowledgement of what is, not what I would want.  I am not going to put forth any more requests for promotion, not unless someone else higher up the food chain recommends it.

[Eclipse]

r you believe me or not, I have greatly valued your input), it is not possible to really know a person based on those conditions.

Maybe this is part of the issue, and not just in your situation.

How does "knowing you" change the objective facts?   It might make someone more empathetic, but beyond that does
it change anything?

In all the conversations, you've said you've had some personality conflicts, moved a bit, and then after coming up with a plan,
personal circumstance prevented you from fulfilling what you agreed to (or at least were told was expected).

How is any of this a CAP problem?

At the end of the day, there's 100lbs of dirt that has to be moved from this corner to that corner, and you're either carrying
a shovel or not.  Maybe your piece is buying the shovels, or painting them, or tracking them, but any dirt left in the corner
still has to be moved.

If you can't help at the moment, no harm, no foul, come back when you can, but don't expect to be invited to the
same pizza party as those moving the dirt.

There are 100 ways to be involved, only 20 are at the unit level, the rest are at other echelons, activities,
and many are fully remote, especially those at wings and regions, but instead of pursuing those, you just want to keep saying
you have a "dilemma" and then fall back on "not wanting to toot your own horn".

People change, so you can try and wait them out, or you can takes the steps we've suggested, or "other",
but being angsty about it won't help anyone.