Has anyone ever heard of this bunch?

[ZigZag911]

Folks, I've been a member since 1970 (WIWAC!).

During that time span, there was not "Golden Age" of CAP relationship with USAF.

Neither was there an intentional antipathy on part of the Air Force toward CAP.

Now and then someone in CAP, generally but not always high up the food chain, did something to displease the senior USAF leadership, which occasionally led to a negative reaction and consequences.

Throughout that time, Air Force personal as a whole knew as little about us as the general public.

As with everything else, most relationships tended to be local (wings/units with Air Force bases, Air National Guard units, CAP-RAP reservists) and the nature and quality of those relationships depended on the individuals leading on both sides.

I would suggest that this remains the case today.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The RAF operates - for a while longer - SAR helos on behalf of the Dept of Trade as well as to support the military mission but that will cease when the whole SAR role is placed with a private contractor in the next few years.  It'll be interesting to see how UKCAP fares at that point.  There might be an opportunity for them - or not.

So Flight Lieutenant William Wales, RAF, who flew Sea King SAR helos, would have had to cross-train to something else if he'd remained in the RAF?

[PHall]

The RAF operates - for a while longer - SAR helos on behalf of the Dept of Trade as well as to support the military mission but that will cease when the whole SAR role is placed with a private contractor in the next few years.  It'll be interesting to see how UKCAP fares at that point.  There might be an opportunity for them - or not.

So Flight Lieutenant William Wales, RAF, who flew Sea King SAR helos, would have had to cross-train to something else if he'd remained in the RAF?

If he had stayed in, yes, in a couple of years.

[MSG Mac]

The RAF operates - for a while longer - SAR helos on behalf of the Dept of Trade as well as to support the military mission but that will cease when the whole SAR role is placed with a private contractor in the next few years.  It'll be interesting to see how UKCAP fares at that point.  There might be an opportunity for them - or not.

So Flight Lieutenant William Wales, RAF, who flew Sea King SAR helos, would have had to cross-train to something else if he'd remained in the RAF?

Same as in any other military. Move up or move on.

[Brit_in_CAP]

If I may...yes, that would be correct in the same way that both his father and uncle had to when they moved on in the RN, and as Lt Harry Wales will also do shortly.

Prince Charles commanded HMS Bronington (mine counter-measures vessel) as a Lt and then did some aviation training whilst Prince Andrew flew as part of the Air Group in HMS Invincible during the Falkands War, then as the Flight Commander in a frigate and thence to the Ministry of Defense as a staff officer.  Likewise, Lt Harry Wales is headed to a desk job after flying Apaches.

In the case of Flt Lt Wales, a logical progression would have been to either cross-train on Support Helicopters (SH) or, again, take his first desk job and, in all probability, start flying again in the SH force a few years later.

Added Later: when 'the Royals' are 'active' in one of the Services they follow the normal up or out path and undertake staff training as well as operational training; Charles and William are different in being the heir apparent and heir presumptive to the Throne; their service is intended to familiarize them with all aspects of the UK military and they usually 'serve' in all 3 branches at some point.  William was insistent that he actually 'do' something since the UK was at war and his younger brother was serving first as a FAC and then as an Apache pilot.

[THRAWN]

If I may...yes, that would be correct in the same way that both his father and uncle had to when they moved on in the RN, and as Lt Harry Wales will also do shortly.

Prince Charles commanded HMS Bronington (mine counter-measures vessel) as a Lt and then did some aviation training whilst Prince Andrew flew as part of the Air Group in HMS Invincible during the Falkands War, then as the Flight Commander in a frigate and thence to the Ministry of Defense as a staff officer.  Likewise, Lt Harry Wales is headed to a desk job after flying Apaches.

In the case of Flt Lt Wales, a logical progression would have been to either cross-train on Support Helicopters (SH) or, again, take his first desk job and, in all probability, start flying again in the SH force a few years later.

Prince Harry is a captain, but otherwise, interesting info. Thanks for sharing!

[Brit_in_CAP]

If I may...yes, that would be correct in the same way that both his father and uncle had to when they moved on in the RN, and as Lt Harry Wales will also do shortly.

Prince Charles commanded HMS Bronington (mine counter-measures vessel) as a Lt and then did some aviation training whilst Prince Andrew flew as part of the Air Group in HMS Invincible during the Falkands War, then as the Flight Commander in a frigate and thence to the Ministry of Defense as a staff officer.  Likewise, Lt Harry Wales is headed to a desk job after flying Apaches.

In the case of Flt Lt Wales, a logical progression would have been to either cross-train on Support Helicopters (SH) or, again, take his first desk job and, in all probability, start flying again in the SH force a few years later.

Prince Harry is a captain, but otherwise, interesting info. Thanks for sharing!

You're welcome..

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Captain Wales AAC is going to the RN?

I had also heard unsubstantiated rumours he would be doing at least some service with one of the Commonwealth services.

Flt Lt Wales would also have soon been eligible to promote to Squadron Leader, though I understand that is one of the most competitive of all the ranks in the RAF to earn.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Captain Wales AAC is going to the RN?

I had also heard unsubstantiated rumours he would be doing at least some service with one of the Commonwealth services.

Flt Lt Wales would also have soon been eligible to promote to Squadron Leader, though I understand that is one of the most competitive of all the ranks in the RAF to earn.

I couldn't pass up commenting here!

Sqn Ldr is indeed one of the most competitive RAF ranks to earn.  It's the first point at which promotion is tied to something other than time in grade, and it requires multiple hoops to be jumped through.  The list has changed much since my time so I won't attempt to quote today's list.  In general terms it is the up or out point for most commissioned officers; it's hard to complete full career if you can't make at least the O-4 point (personal experience!).  Flt Lt Wales had sufficient time in grade (just) and would probably have gotten a condensed training if he'd decided to remain.

I have to say also that the herd gets thinned rapidly from O-4 onwards.  The RAF is now ~40,000 strong (regular) plus a share of the total 37,00 reserves (not sure of the split).  Given the intention to reduce the RAF by a further 7,000 personnel (taking total strength close to WW1 levels) a simply analysis shows that you need commensurately fewer commissioned officer and especially senior commissioned officers.  Anyone thinking of joining for a full career needs to consider that.  The chances are much higher that you'll remain as an O3 or O4, or be separated at your 16-year point, rather than ascend the pyramid.

Capt. Wales took up post as a Staff Officer role in HQ London District as SO3 (Defence Engagement) in 2014 , where he will help to co-ordinate significant projects and commemorative events involving the Army in London.   Serving in one of the Commonwealth services is entirely feasibly but I've seen nothing about cross-serving in the RN.  Probably not, unless he goes back to flying Apaches again as part of the embarked Air Group in one of the current assault ships or the new carriers (assuming those go as planned).  The concept - Apache on board ship - has been trialled very successfully.

Cross-serving is actually quite easy when Grandma is Commander in Chief not only of the UK armed forces but also of 'Her Other Realms and Dominions'!  For the rest of us, it meant mountains of paper and(generally) a polite denial!  I write this without any rancor, by the way.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Cross-serving is actually quite easy when Grandma is Commander in Chief not only of the UK armed forces but also of 'Her Other Realms and Dominions'!  For the rest of us, it meant mountains of paper and(generally) a polite denial!  I write this without any rancor, by the way.

If Captain Wales would choose to serve in one of "Her Other Realms and Dominions," not much would change for him uniform-wise...just slap a nationality flash on each shoulder in many cases.

[PHall]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

[PHall]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

Edit: Also found it on the Mail Online web page.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Cross-serving is actually quite easy when Grandma is Commander in Chief not only of the UK armed forces but also of 'Her Other Realms and Dominions'!  For the rest of us, it meant mountains of paper and(generally) a polite denial!  I write this without any rancor, by the way.

If Captain Wales would choose to serve in one of "Her Other Realms and Dominions," not much would change for him uniform-wise...just slap a nationality flash on each shoulder in many cases.

Yes, quite true!  The 'other realms and dominions' adopted the pattern of uniform from the 'Mother Country' to an amazing extent!  That is, part from (wait for it)...the cammo uniforms..!

I knew no CAPTALK thread could live for long without getting to a uniform piece eventually!

[Brit_in_CAP]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

Edit: Also found it on the Mail Online web page.

Likewise.  Getting some minor press coverage but we'll have to wait and see.

[PHall]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

Edit: Also found it on the Mail Online web page.

Likewise.  Getting some minor press coverage but we'll have to wait and see.

Well if you had the choice of either performing "Royal Duties" or helping save someone's life, which would you do?

[Eclipse]

Well if you had the choice of either performing "Royal Duties" or helping save someone's life, which would you do?

A true "Royal" simply issues a proclamation that the person is no longer in peril and moves on with dinner.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Indeed.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Yes, quite true!  The 'other realms and dominions' adopted the pattern of uniform from the 'Mother Country' to an amazing extent!  That is, part from (wait for it)...the cammo uniforms..!

New Zealand personnel are almost indistinguishable from the "Mother Country," except for the nationality flash, as are the RCN. 


AIRCDRE Kevin McEvoy, RNZAF

The Canadian Army has a different shade of green, and the RCAF uses gold sleeve rings and Army ranks.  The Australian Army uses their famed "slouch hat."

The RAAF uses the same cut as the RAF, but in a (very attractive) "midnight blue."


Air Marshal Geoff Brown, AO, RAAF

Well if you had the choice of either performing "Royal Duties" or helping save someone's life, which would you do?

Excellent point, and well-taken, but it seems like those who worry about those in the line of succession would view the same duty performed in a military or a private sector context somewhat differently...in the RAF F/L Wales had to do what he was ordered to do, but in the civilian world he does have a little more choice.

Anyway, if that's what he's doing, I hope he does well and saves lots of lives.

[Flying Pig]

According to what I heard on NPR today, Flt Lt Wales is considering flying helecopters for an Air Ambulance Company.
Just proves that saving lives is a hard habit to break! :clap:

No joke?  I had not heard that.

Edit: Also found it on the Mail Online web page.

Likewise.  Getting some minor press coverage but we'll have to wait and see.

Well if you had the choice of either performing "Royal Duties" or helping save someone's life, which would you do?

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/prince-william-take-job-air-ambulance-pilot-1449958