William "Wild Bill" Guarnere Dies

[TexasCadet]

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dfw/obituary.aspx?n=william-guarnere&pid=170100609

I just finished reading the book Band of Brothers yesterday. Great book, about a great group of men. Mr. Guarnere will be missed.

[LSThiker]

Great book, about a great group of men.

Sorry, but is that all you can say about the book?  I think the book is more than just about a great group of men.

[TexasCadet]

I  could say a lot more. I just felt like saying what I said. However, I agree it is more than that. It's about their training, their struggles, and their successes. They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II. For me, it is kind of moving. (One of my favorite quotes: "They got us surrounded - the poor ********.")

[SunDog]

I  could say a lot more. I just felt like saying what I said. However, I agree it is more than that. It's about their training, their struggles, and their successes. They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II. For me, it is kind of moving. (One of my favorite quotes: "They got us surrounded - the poor ********.")

Hey, well said Texas. The video production is also first rate and worth your time. I worked with one of the widows a while back - those guys,  and guys like them, saved the world. They did the hard part - all we have to do is mantain it.

They were just regular guys, too - like you or me. It's always just regular guys, you know? Reaching down and finding what's necessary.

Anyway, what you posted is fine - and made my day, thanks!

[Private Investigator]

They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II.

(One of my favorite quotes: "They got us surrounded - the poor ********.")

Every airborne company thinks they are the best. It comes with the jump wings.

That quote has been around for a few wars and several police actions. I think Henry V coined it actually in France.   

[Flying Pig]

I  could say a lot more. I just felt like saying what I said. However, I agree it is more than that. It's about their training, their struggles, and their successes. They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II. For me, it is kind of moving. (One of my favorite quotes: "They got us surrounded - the poor ********.")

I haven't found what prompted Ambrose to choose that particular unit. Maybe the initial problems in their training added a dramatic story? 

[bosshawk]

From my study of WW II history, I would guess that there are quite a number of company-sized units from that war that could come up with similar stories.

Not to take anything away from the company from the 101st.  Having been stationed at Ft Bragg, I saw first-hand the airborne mentality.

[LSThiker]

I haven't found what prompted Ambrose to choose that particular unit. Maybe the initial problems in their training added a dramatic story?

He answered the question during an interview, but did not exactly state why E company vs D company.  However, it probably is because Ambrose's neighbor, Walter Gordon, was a corporal in Easy Company.   

When asked why he wrote about Easy Company:

"It's the scope of the thing. The adventures of this group of men take you through America and through much of Europe, including most of the high points of the European theater of the war."

...they weren't all that much better than other paratroopers, or the Rangers, or the Marines. They were one of many elite units in the war. But what made them special even among those who were already self-selected special, was their leadership, and how well it held together. And it got tried very severely on several occasions. But the great COs, platoon leaders and sergeants – not all elite units had such luck in their leaders, and that's the difference."

They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II.

I was going for some critical thinking about the book.  Were they really that great?  Were they really the "best" Airborne company?  What makes their story different from other companies?  Or what makes their story different from their sister companies (Dog Company, Charlie Company, Baker Company).  LTC Speirs served in B or C, and D company.  Within the story, they talk about the stories surrounding Speirs.  We have a tendency to think that the story of Easy Company was isolated, but was it really?

[TexasCadet]

They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II.

I was going for some critical thinking about the book.  Were they really that great?  Were they really the "best" Airborne company?

They were one of the best airborne companies. One out of many.

We have a tendency to think that the story of Easy Company was isolated, but was it really?

No, I guess you're right about that.

[LSThiker]

They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II.

I was going for some critical thinking about the book.  Were they really that great?  Were they really the "best" Airborne company?

They were one of the best airborne companies. One out of many.

Come on.  I know Texas is 45th to 49th in State Education depending on which source you read, has a 87.7% high school graduation rate, and an ~8.5% drop out rate.  Do not just switch from "the best" to "one of the best".  Tell me why I should care about a William Guarnere dying?  People from the WWII-era time period die all the time, what makes him any more special beyond the others?  You just got done reading this book, sell it to me.

We have a tendency to think that the story of Easy Company was isolated, but was it really?

No, I guess you're right about that.

You guess I am right?  Could I be wrong?  Why do you guess I am right?

[TexasCadet]

They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II.

I was going for some critical thinking about the book.  Were they really that great?  Were they really the "best" Airborne company?

They were one of the best airborne companies. One out of many.

Come on.  I know Texas is 45th to 49th in State Education depending on which source you read, has a 87.7% high school graduation rate, and an ~8.5% drop out rate.  Do not just switch from "the best" to "one of the best".  Tell me why I should care about a William Guarnere dying?  People from the WWII-era time period die all the time, what makes him any more special beyond the others?  You just got done reading this book, sell it to me.

We have a tendency to think that the story of Easy Company was isolated, but was it really?

No, I guess you're right about that.

You guess I am right?  Could I be wrong?  Why do you guess I am right?

With all due respect, please read my second post on this topic. You will see that it contains the wording "one of the best".

Also with all due respect, you may not care about Mr. Guarnere dying, but others might, such as me. I could care less about this person dying, but she was important to some people.
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18206.0

Of course you could be wrong, but I have come to the realization that while Easy Company was an outstanding company, it did not fight alone. It had to have help, as it could not win alone. This does not take away from the fact that it was a good company.

I  could say a lot more. I just felt like saying what I said. However, I agree it is more than that. It's about their training, their struggles, and their successes. They stared out as a bunch of recruits and became one of the best airborne companies in World War II. For me, it is kind of moving. (One of my favorite quotes: "They got us surrounded - the poor ********.")

And as to your remark about Texas education, I am home-schooled.

Edited to add more content.

[SunDog]

Hi Texas,

Don't sweat it - this is a forum, and you're not under instruction here, unless yu choose to be; and it's always legitimate to ignore a rude response.  His death matters to me because he was made known, in words and on film, to us.If he was more, or less, worthy doesn't come into it for me . . . I think about him, and extrapolate to all the other guys whose names, manner, and heroics I'll never know.  His passing matters to you, and you said so.  I presume you are a cadet - if so, it pleases me you've read the book, and been moved by it.   No in depth essay/book report required here. . . .

[TexasCadet]

Thank you, SunDog. I do not think that LSThiker posted a rude response; after all, everyone's opinion may be expressed here. I was just defending my beliefs. In fact, I probably would not have posted Mr. Guarnere's passing had I not just finished reading Band of Brothers. I wouldn't have even known who he was, except for the information in his obituary.

[LSThiker]

With all due respect, please read my second post on this topic. You will see that it contains the wording "one of the best".

Fair enough, I misread that.

Also with all due respect, you may not care about Mr. Guarnere dying, but others might, such as me.

Where did I say I did not care about Guarnere dying?

Of course you could be wrong, but I have come to the realization that while Easy Company was an outstanding company, it did not fight alone. It had to have help, as it could not win alone. This does not take away from the fact that it was a good company.

Okay, so we are getting somewhere.  So what made them an outstanding company?  What about their struggles, training, and successes moved you?  How do these correlate to E company being an outstanding company?  Had the company existed today in Afghanistan, would what they did in WWII be tolerated today?  Would we have written about them had they been a Nazi party?

Was CPT Sobel a good leader?

The mere act of reading history, while good, is not as important as the thinking it demands.  I am asking you what are your critical thoughts about the history/story?  Did you read critically or merely passively? 

"The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice"--Mark Twain

"That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history"--Huxley

[SunDog]

Thank you, SunDog. I do not think that LSThiker posted a rude response; after all, everyone's opinion may be expressed here. I was just defending my beliefs. In fact, I probably would not have posted Mr. Guarnere's passing had I not just finished reading Band of Brothers. I wouldn't have even known who he was, except for the information in his obituary.

You might also try "Fate is the Hunter", Ernest K. Gann.  It's the aviation book that matters. 

[PaulR]

It is sad to see more and more of these men and women crossing the bar every day. 

[Slim]

Thank you, SunDog. I do not think that LSThiker posted a rude response; after all, everyone's opinion may be expressed here. I was just defending my beliefs. In fact, I probably would not have posted Mr. Guarnere's passing had I not just finished reading Band of Brothers. I wouldn't have even known who he was, except for the information in his obituary.

I don't think it's rude or out of line at all.  Unless I'm misunderstanding him, I think his intent is to spur a little bit of critical thinking on your part.  This isn't necessarily bad; in fact, it's something we should be teaching and encouraging in all of our cadets.

FWIW, I was also somewhat moved at SSG Guarnere's passing, just as I was when Shifty Powell passed last year, and when Richard Winters passed a few years ago.  I've never read the book, I've watched the miniseries many times, typically twice a year since it came out (recorded all of them on VHS tape initially, then got the DVD set for Christmas a few years later).  Every time I watch it, I take away something else, or something I missed.  Oddly enough, I had just finished watching it the Friday before he died. 

Why are these people important to us?  Well, much like your favorite TV character, you let them into your life for x amount of time; at the end of it, you do feel like you know them.  I supposed my biggest problem is that when I hear the name Bill Guarnere, the image that jumps into my head is that of Frank John Hughes.  Then again, I see Damian Lewis when I think of Richard Winters, etc. 

[Wild Weasel]

Critical Thinking:
Episode 5 "Crossroads" should be mandatory viewing in MBA programs, because it's a case study of leadership.

- Winters assembles his resources, investigates a problem (German machine gun firing), and begins a rapid orientation of his environment.
- He mentally notes the location of the gun & direction of fire.  He observes the terrain, plans the proper launching point, angle of attack, and fallback position.
- He brings his squad to the front, quickly explains tactical duty assignments, and begins execution.
- He attacks swiftly, each team member with a specific duty.
- After the initial strike, he falls back, analyzes the enemy's response, calls for additional resources, and waits as he re-observes the changing environment.
- Seeing no exit strategy, Winters decides there is only one acceptable course of action & plans his second attack, asks for questions to insure clarity, and begins tactical execution.
- Noticing uncertainty (and perhaps fear) in the face of his men, he quickly determines he must lead this mission from the front.  He personally attacks first taking the most risk, his men follow with renewed confidence.
- When realizing he is facing more enemy than anticipated, he calls in heavy artillery with clear technical instruction of where to shell, and falls back.
- When the fighting ends, he reflects on his one lost trooper and how he might do better next time.

Winters embodied rapid progression through the OODA loop.  Watch Episode5-Crossroads from the perspective of your career or CAP professional development and it will be beneficial.

[SunDog]

Most well said! This forum is the last possible place (other than congress) that I expected to see reference to the OODA loop! zbless you. . .

[Flying Pig]

I cant even count the amount of times Ive seen references to the OODA loop on CAPtalk