Saluting/Room, Attention for non-uniformed officers

[benhen1997]

If passing by an officer that is not in an official CAP/USAF uniform, would you salute him/her?  Or, if an officer walks into a room, and he/she is not in an official CAP/USAF uniform, then would you call the room to attention for him/her?
Personally, I don't think you should, because if you are wearing a uniform without grade on it, then there is no way to tell whether or not you are higher ranking than the rest of the people in the room.  Also, what if he/she is wearing a uniform, but is not totally complient with CAPM 39-1?

[tsrup]

What does CAPP 151 say?

[PhoenixRisen]

If passing by an officer that is not in an official CAP/USAF uniform, would you salute him/her?

Of course.  USAF / USAF-style uniforms aren't the only ones you'll come in contact with throughout your CAP career.  There are other military services (and "uniformed services" - though, less common) that are to be shown the same respect.

Or, if an officer walks into a room, and he/she is not in an official CAP/USAF uniform, then would you call the room to attention for him/her?

Same deal.  Other services' officers are to be extended the same courtesies.

Personally, I don't think you should, because if you are wearing a uniform without grade on it, then there is no way to tell whether or not you are higher ranking than the rest of the people in the room.

Uh... what?  Two separate thought trains running together here...

Also, what if he/she is wearing a uniform, but is not totally complient with CAPM 39-1?

Yes.

[NIN]

Simple test here:

Is that person recognizable as an officer?   YES = Salute; NO = do not salute.

If you're bip-bopping down the street at Burpelson AFB and you see a guy coming your way wearing oak leaves on his epaulets, but his flight cap is on backwards, do you salute him, or just grin at his backward hat and think "I'm not saluting you, you're not in uniform!"?  Of course you salute!  (and maybe say "Good Morning, sir! Do you realize your flight cap is on backwards?")

I've saluted officers in civilian clothes. Why? I recognize that they're officers and the salute is a military greeting.  I was in uniform, they were not. I still saluted.  Just because my LT  is wearing a polo shirt and jeans doesn't mean he's not still my LT.  (substitute "Battalion commander" for LT.. been there, done that..)

Its like the chowderheads who believe there is a minimum saluting distance.  I'm on one side of the street, they're on the other, they're looking right at me, they know I'm an officer, but you can see them mentally calculating the distance and thinking "Nay-nah.. I don't have to salute.."  Dude, you totally do.

[FlyTiger77]

Simple test here:

Is that person recognizable as an officer?   YES = Salute; NO = do not salute.

If you're bip-bopping down the street at Burpelson AFB and you see a guy coming your way wearing oak leaves on his epaulets, but his flight cap is on backwards, do you salute him, or just grin at his backward hat and think "I'm not saluting you, you're not in uniform!"?  Of course you salute!  (and maybe say "Good Morning, sir! Do you realize your flight cap is on backwards?")

I've saluted officers in civilian clothes. Why? I recognize that they're officers and the salute is a military greeting.  I was in uniform, they were not. I still saluted.  Just because my LT  is wearing a polo shirt and jeans doesn't mean he's not still my LT.  (substitute "Battalion commander" for LT.. been there, done that..)

Its like the chowderheads who believe there is a minimum saluting distance.  I'm on one side of the street, they're on the other, they're looking right at me, they know I'm an officer, but you can see them mentally calculating the distance and thinking "Nay-nah.. I don't have to salute.."  Dude, you totally do.

Concur.

[Eclipse]

+ another...

[lordmonar]

A salute is ALWAYS appropriate!

Showing respect is always appropriate.

As for calling the room to attention....because there are so many local variations on this rule....ask your chain of command.

Bottom line as NIN said....if you recognise an officer....then it is time to render honors.

[Major Carrales]

What does CAPP 151 say?

...tell us...show us?

[bflynn]

A salute is ALWAYS appropriate!

I think the OP was a cadet, but one exception is a SM in the polo shirt.  Saluting is not appropritate when you are in civilian clothing and the polo shirt qualifies there.

[Spaceman3750]

A salute is ALWAYS appropriate!

I think the OP was a cadet, but one exception is a SM in the polo shirt.  Saluting is not appropritate when you are in civilian clothing and the polo shirt qualifies there.

Says who?

[NIN]

I must remind: Saluting is a customary military greeting.

Would it be inappropriate to say to your LT "Good morning, sir?" when you encounter him on the street? No. You customarily greet people you know.

Same goes for the salute.  It is a greeting, a customary exchange of pleasantries, if you will.  In a military environment (which CAP qualifies as for this purpose), it is not inappropriate to proffer and receive the customary greeting.  Regardless of uniform.

As a newbie SM, I would always laugh when I ran into cadets at the mall and they stood at attention.  I'm not in uniform, but they're doing it anyway. Why? Because I was one of their officers.  Whether I'm wearing sneakers, board shorts and a skydiving t-shirt, its still "The Colonel"

As people have been quick to point out: you don't stop being who (or what) you are just because you take the uniform off.  That is a true statement.

[bflynn]

Says who?

Military custom.  The salute is a military greeting, the custom is to salute while in a military style uniform. 

The polo shirt is not a military uniform.  It's still appropriate to offer a greeting.

I believe it says the same thing in CAPP 151.  It might be somewhere else, I know I read it somewhere.

[Eclipse]

What 115 actually says...

Expected / required in all uniforms but the golf shirt (so the off-mentioned issue of the hat is moot), acceptable and encouraged at all times.

Page 3
Senior Members. For senior members, the rendering of customs and courtesies is expected when wearing a military-style uniform (all
uniform combinations except the polo shirt and blazer). Regardless, CAP encourages all members to take part in something larger than
themselves by participating in these rich traditions.

And to the original question...

Page 6
When in uniform, salute officers upon recognition, regardless of what the officer is wearing. For example, uniformed cadets salute their
squadron commander even if that commander is in civilian attire. In such instances, the commander typically would verbally acknowledge
the salute, but not return it.

[tsrup]

What does CAPP 151 say?

...tell us...show us?

give a man a fish...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Of course.  USAF / USAF-style uniforms aren't the only ones you'll come in contact with throughout your CAP career.  There are other military services (and "uniformed services" - though, less common) that are to be shown the same respect.

You salute all commissioned and warrant officers of the United States Armed Forces and allied (NATO, British Commonwealth, etc.) armed forces (though British, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand warrants are more like our E-8/E-9...you do not salute them but address them as "Sir/Ma'am").

Uniformed services:


NOAA Corps Directer RADM Jonathan W.Bailey, NOAA


U.S. Public Health Service (who provide most medical care for the Coast Guard; the female Commander front row, second left is wearing CG blue)

I don't think we are required to salute NOAA/USPHS but I would anyway...anyhow, they look so much like the Navy/CG that I'm not going to look for distinguishing insignia and decide not to salute (rude anyway).

It is never improper to salute.

I remember my first squadron CC telling me that once when he was at Maxwell he encountered uniforms from all over the world...Belgians, Aussies, Germans, French, Canadians and many more...he said "I don't know all of their insignia so I just saluted anyway; I might have been saluting a Corporal but at least I know I was in compliance!"

[Ford73Diesel]

USPHS and NOAA hold the same commission as their armed forces counterparts, thus rate a salute. Military personnel (whether they know it or not) are required to salute their officers. As a CG member, I've never encountered any except for some dental staff at boot camp.

While I was at TRACEN Yorktown, there was an international officer class going through. Talk about crazy uniforms. I had no idea what country these guys were from, let alone what rank they were, so I saluted all of them. Some were humbled by the gesture and told us not to, others kinda seemed like they expected it.

I always salute officers out of uniform if I recognize them, and only if I am in uniform. From my experience, most O's don't expect it, at least in my unit.

[CAP_Marine]

WIWAD, we had to salute the cars that belonged to officers, whether or not it was them or their 16 year old daughter driving it! That is/ was military custom. I don't get where people are trying to find wiggle room on this one. Render the appropriate courtesy (salute) and move on! It is not a sign of subservience to do so, it is a sign of respect.

[Eclipse]

WIWAD, we had to salute the cars that belonged to officers, whether or not it was them or their 16 year old daughter driving it! That is/ was military custom. I don't get where people are trying to find wiggle room on this one. Render the appropriate courtesy (salute) and move on! It is not a sign of subservience to do so, it is a sign of respect.

We still see that at NSGL, especially on the RTC.

Ditto on just showing the respect and moving on...

[bflynn]

WIWAD, we had to salute the cars that belonged to officers, whether or not it was them or their 16 year old daughter driving it! That is/ was military custom. I don't get where people are trying to find wiggle room on this one. Render the appropriate courtesy (salute) and move on! It is not a sign of subservience to do so, it is a sign of respect.

I don't see anyone trying to find wiggle room, there is just what is done and what is not.  You don't salute if you are not in uniform.  You salute even if the officer is not in uniform.

I was stationed in Norfolk and since it was the Atlantic Fleet HQ, there were a crazy amount of foreign officers through the area.  If it was a weird uniform, I saluted it.  Probably saluted a couple of CAP folks at some point...

You're right, it's no big deal. 

[Ned]

At my various AD Army schools, there were always a bunch of allied officers floating around.  And some of the African grade insignia can be a little confusing -  does two elephants outrank three palm leaves or vice versa?  And one of them was wearing stars, but was a 30 year-old 1LT.

Normally, they wore a small ID badge/tab thing with their US-equivalent insignia on their pocket.

But it sure could case some internal mental calculations when you saw some of those uniforms coming your way on the sidewalk.