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CAP joins the TEA party

Started by RiverAux, April 26, 2010, 07:37:52 PM

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RiverAux

While I am all for CAP participating in community events, posting the colors at a political rally seems a little bit beyond our scope.  Any comments from our friends in PA Wing?
http://www.kittanningpaper.com/2010/04/26/tea-party-held-along-the-banks/6404

mynetdude

oh noes... I won't say nothing cuz if you all remember what happened in ORWG a couple years ago... 'nuff said.

raivo

#2
Uniform wear at political events is explicitly forbidden. (Unless the Air Force approves it, and the odds of that are virtually nil.)

I can see heads rolling for this.

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

davidsinn

I foresee many former members to come out of this.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

Chappie

Relieved not to read that a CAP chaplain offered the invocation in uniform ---- whew!!!
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

mynetdude

read 39-1 table 1-1 it TELLS you that you cannot wear the uniform at those kinds of events.

I've seen this happen myself first hand, too bad it still happens and has anybody learned from the previous events yet?

SarDragon

Here's my guess on what will happen:

Project Officer gets hands smacked severely.
Participants get counseled to not ever, ever, ever do that again, and the reasons.
A letter goes out to everyone in the food chain reminding folks why they aren't supposed to participate in political events.

I am wondering who approved this, though. Seems like it ought not be left just to the squadron commander.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

mynetdude

Quote from: SarDragon on April 26, 2010, 08:24:43 PM
Here's my guess on what will happen:

Project Officer gets hands smacked severely.
Participants get counseled to not ever, ever, ever do that again, and the reasons.
A letter goes out to everyone in the food chain reminding folks why they aren't supposed to participate in political events.

I am wondering who approved this, though. Seems like it ought not be left just to the squadron commander.

IIRC sqdn CC approved the last one I still vividly remember, don't know what happened at the wing side or if they cared/knew.

FW

This why some wing commanders tear their hair out.  ::)

The PAWG/CC finds out about this through a certain CT reader and, it is being taken care of as we write.  Ahh, the power of the internet.

mynetdude

Quote from: FW on April 26, 2010, 08:42:49 PM
This why some wing commanders tear their hair out.  ::)

The PAWG/CC finds out about this through a certain CT reader and, it is being taken care of as we write.  Ahh, the power of the internet.

That's exactly how I got into something pretty messy which shouldn't have been.

a2capt

Ugh. The sorriest part about it is, especially if, the color guard participants did it because they were asked to do it and, although you would imagine they might think first ..

They could have been doing just the best they knew and with all the best intent. Heck, perhaps they even got mislead into it, that it wasn't anything political. But if you even heard the word "tea party", you have to pretty much live in a cave to not realize ..

Do they have caves in PA? Bat Cave, NC is .. well, maybe not, close.

RiverAux

Quote from: FW on April 26, 2010, 08:42:49 PM
This why some wing commanders tear their hair out.  ::)

The PAWG/CC finds out about this through a certain CT reader and, it is being taken care of as we write.  Ahh, the power of the internet.
I'm pretty sure I probably beat NHQ by only a few hours on this.  They seem to have the same sort of google and yahoo news alerts that I do (which is how they get a lot of content for VolunteerNow) and I'm sure they would have told someone in PA about it. 

lordmonar

Well if this has happened before I wish someone would get the word out to the masses.

My color guard did the Nevada Repulican Convention a few weeks back.  I guess I'm going to hell!   >:D
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

raivo

Well, according to 39-1...

Quotewhen participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews,
picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not
approved by the Air Force. Wearing the uniform may imply sanction
of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.

I'm not really sure a party convention is in the same league as a demonstration.

CAP Member, 2000-20??
USAF Officer, 2009-2018
Recipient of a Mitchell Award Of Irrelevant Number

"No combat-ready unit has ever passed inspection. No inspection-ready unit has ever survived combat."

RiverAux

I'd say there isn't much of a difference there.  After all, what are conventions but a bunch of partisan political speeches.

mynetdude

Quote from: raivo on April 26, 2010, 09:27:54 PM
Well, according to 39-1...

Quotewhen participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews,
picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not
approved by the Air Force. Wearing the uniform may imply sanction
of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.

I'm not really sure a party convention is in the same league as a demonstration.

bold emphasis mine

its a political public speech, therefore the M39-1 prohibits it.


mynetdude

Quote from: lordmonar on April 26, 2010, 09:06:41 PM
Well if this has happened before I wish someone would get the word out to the masses.

My color guard did the Nevada Repulican Convention a few weeks back.  I guess I'm going to hell!   >:D

Sure seems that way don't it? I'm surprise nobody remembers the Obama townhall incident in Medford, OR

FWIW IMHO nobody to blame but overly regulated CAP, and FTW it seems like we'd be doing our country a disservice if we didn't post the colors when asked so I dunno...

ONE thing I could say is what if we sent out a color guard post the colors and if they want to stay, they could change into civvies and it would no longer be a CAP sanctioned event?

lordmonar

Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 09:59:45 PM
Quote from: raivo on April 26, 2010, 09:27:54 PM
Well, according to 39-1...

Quotewhen participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews,
picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not
approved by the Air Force. Wearing the uniform may imply sanction
of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.

I'm not really sure a party convention is in the same league as a demonstration.

bold emphasis mine

its a political public speech, therefore the M39-1 prohibits it.

Well...not really.....it only says that the USAF has to approve.  So....who and how do we go about making sure it is Kosher.  Because I know that the USAF honor guard performs at events where there are political speeches.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

mynetdude

Quote from: lordmonar on April 26, 2010, 10:04:33 PM
Quote from: mynetdude on April 26, 2010, 09:59:45 PM
Quote from: raivo on April 26, 2010, 09:27:54 PM
Well, according to 39-1...

Quotewhen participating in activities such as public speeches, interviews,
picket lines, marches, rallies, or in any public demonstration not
approved by the Air Force. Wearing the uniform may imply sanction
of the cause for which the demonstration or activity is conducted.

I'm not really sure a party convention is in the same league as a demonstration.

bold emphasis mine

its a political public speech, therefore the M39-1 prohibits it.

Well...not really.....it only says that the USAF has to approve.  So....who and how do we go about making sure it is Kosher.  Because I know that the USAF honor guard performs at events where there are political speeches.

If the USAF really does do honor guard at public speeches I'm betting they don't stick around once they've done their part.  In that case I would bet we need to submit changes up the CoC to permit us to perform only color guard and anything else beyond that would be prohibited as far as being sanctioned by CAP.

As for getting USAF approval in time for a political event, dunno but if the above rule were to be applied you would not need approval?

RiverAux

Anyone note the irony in the TEA party using a taxpayer supported color guard at this event?