CAP Volunteer Service Clashing With Employer Expectations

[RADIOMAN015]

Interestingly another website is reporting that a Regional Commander has tended his resignation due to his employer's expectation of him being on the job and not off on CAP business.  Apparently he accepted a promotion in a public safety agency and this changed the employer's expectations.

Makes one wonder how anyone at a higher level (maybe even at a squadron commander level), is viewed by their employer, if other than vacation/comp time utilization is being requested (I would paid time to perform CAP duties ).   Surely there's organizations that allow their employees some time off for community type activities (but I would think more of the non profit & government type organizations would be more liberal than the business side in allowing this.  I know one of my relatives works at a company that gives them about 3 days a year to participate in community activities).   Any time I'm away from work for CAP activities during my normal work week I have to use my vacation time.

Seems like it could be a really challenge and maybe even a civilian career stopper for anyone in CAP at a higher level that requires taking lots of time off from work  
RM

             

[Chappie]

I am employed by a county's law enforcement agency as part of the IT team. I have never had an occassion where when I requested vacation time to attend a wing/region/national event have I been denied.  For me it's all about having time on the books.  (That has included 7 CCRSCs, 8 Wing Conferences, 3 Region Conferences, 3 NSCs, 1 NCC as well as participating in a couple of CAP member funerals).

[FARRIER]

I wonder how many in CAP are self employed and how it affects their ability to participate.

[lordmonar]

One of the reasons why our top leadership are all retirees or independly wealthy.

As a former squadron commander I had to take a lot of time off for CAP.  Luckily when I was on AD they were pretty liberal about giving time off....as a civilian contractor I have to take leave or work out a way of working extra hours.

[NIN]

One of the reasons why our top leadership are all retirees or independly wealthy.

WIWAC, that was rumored to be a qualification for Wing Commander: retired, independently wealthy and a pilot.

[Eclipse]

Life is choice, it's also in a constant state of change.
His life changed, and he made a choice.

Some people are committed to the point of using time off for CAP, some people wouldn't consider that, and some people volunteer
at CAP, their church, Boy Scouts, the food pantry, and still have time to learn animal husbandry online.

Some companies encourage community service, and will even fund sabbaticals for that purpose.

How is this even a topic?

[ColonelJack]

The problem of time off from work vis-a-vis CAP duties does extend all the way down to the squadron level.  When I was a squadron CC, I worked full-time as a teacher and part-time as a radio newscaster.  That didn't leave a lot of time for anything but sleeping and raising my then-infant daughter ... but somehow I managed to get six years in as CC before the burnout hit.

My full-time employers (school) were pretty hard-nosed about time off - and rightfully so, as I had signed a contract with them to work a certain number of days per year.

The radio folks were also rather demanding of my agreed-to work schedule.

But somehow, it all "worked" out just fine.

Granted, the situation described in RM's original post (a Region commander) isn't the same.  And public safety personnel generally don't operate on an every-day-nine-to-five schedule.  So I can understand his resignation of the Region CC slot.

That's my two cents, adjusted as always for inflation.

Jack

[RADIOMAN015]

I wonder how many in CAP are self employed and how it affects their ability to participate.

Knowing some members that are self employed, it does affect their ability to participate at times.  IF they have a project to complete for a client/customer within a specific time frame , especially if they have to be at the customer's site to do it, they don't have too much flexibility, especially for unplanned/short notice CAP events.

Being self employed is very difficult, and may not offer the flexibility one enjoyed as an employee of someone else
RM

[rustyjeeper]

Interestingly another website is reporting that a Regional Commander has tended his resignation due to his employer's expectation of him being on the job and not off on CAP business.  Apparently he accepted a promotion in a public safety agency and this changed the employer's expectations.

Makes one wonder how anyone at a higher level (maybe even at a squadron commander level), is viewed by their employer, if other than vacation/comp time utilization is being requested (I would paid time to perform CAP duties ).   Surely there's organizations that allow their employees some time off for community type activities (but I would think more of the non profit & government type organizations would be more liberal than the business side in allowing this.  I know one of my relatives works at a company that gives them about 3 days a year to participate in community activities).   Any time I'm away from work for CAP activities during my normal work week I have to use my vacation time.

Seems like it could be a really challenge and maybe even a civilian career stopper for anyone in CAP at a higher level that requires taking lots of time off from work  
RM

           

I can tell you that I have a job working for municipal government in MA and in order to do anything CAP related, be it an actual mission,  or training _ I use my own earned time off (vacation time) and the local government will NOT cover the time for me. I am fortunate to have a job where I have a decent amount of vactation time, but I spend at least 75% of it doing CAP work. I agree it could be a real career stopper for anyone

[PHall]

Hey RADIOMAN015, the proper title for a Commander of one of CAP's eight regions is Region Commander.

Only wannabes call them Regional Commanders...

[Eclipse]

Being self employed is very difficult, and may not offer the flexibility one enjoyed as an employee of someone else.

Seriously?  Being self-employed gives you 100% flexibility, you are your own boss, and you set the priorities.  That doesn't mean you can work full-time CAP and still bill clients, but it certainly means that you're more likely to be able to work remotely and make everyone happy at the same time.  I see my biggest client about twice a quarter, everything else is remote, and it doesn't matter where the "remote" is - your house, Starbucks, encampment, or running the Ground Branch for a major real-world while troubleshooting workstation problems and doing devel work for a client.

People make an ROI decision every morning about their job - most days they go, once in a while they don't.  It's a member choice, period.
If you decide on a given day that CAP is your priority, it's your call.  End of story.  Many states now guarantee job security for members on orders,
and a lot of companies encourage, or even require, volunteer service on an annual basis.

[Nolan Teel]

My boss is pretty understanding about CAP stuff but if I need to work... I work.  If that means I pull chocks on something with CAP then so be it.  Have to pay the Bills. 

[Walkman]

I wonder how many in CAP are self employed and how it affects their ability to participate.

I'm just coming off a long period of being self-employed (start my new job on April 9th) and I can say that freelancing gives a ton of flexibility. Case in point, I don't get vacation time on the new job for a year. I'll get some personal days. That means that NESA is out this year, so is MIWG SAR Academy. I have to really think about anytime off I take for CAP now because I also need to be able to give my family some of my days off as well.

One of the reasons why our top leadership are all retirees or independly wealthy.

Honestly, if I was wealthy like that, I'd make my CAP time my full-time gig.

[Eclipse]

...I also need to be able to give my family some of my days off as well.

Meh, they know what I look like...

[Spaceman3750]

The only time I've ever had issues getting time off (for CAP or otherwise) was summer 2011 because my boss put a freeze on time off due to a major project. Beyond that, they really don't care whether I'm going CAP'ing or basket weaving, so long as I have the time off on the books for it.

[DBlair]

In some states, job protection for unpaid CAP leave has been signed into law, modeled after National Guard job protection (training and/or missions), and others having a variety of other such CAP-related policies. (If I remember correctly, ~15 States have job legislation protecting CAP service)

Here in FLWG, we've been pushing for CAP members to be granted up to 15 days/year unpaid CAP Leave, for the purpose of training and/or missions. This would be for employers with more than 15 employees, and where it would not provide an unreasonable burden on the employer, with certain legal courses of action if the member was fired or penalized in the workplace.

The need for this came into light when we were facing a hurricane and the National Guard was largely deployed overseas, needing CAP to act as a force multiplier even more than usual. As a result, some CAP members experienced problems at work. I've heard that during Deepwater Horizon, similar issues at work were likewise experienced by some, solidifying the importance of a provision to allow our members to serve and meanwhile not be punished for this service.

Personally, I have a job with a certain level of flexibility and so it has allowed for a decent (substantial) level of involvement, even sometimes working on CAP stuff during the workday, but I can certainly see how many employers would have a problem with it.

[jeders]

Being self employed is very difficult, and may not offer the flexibility one enjoyed as an employee of someone else.

Seriously?  Being self-employed gives you 100% flexibility, you are your own boss, and you set the priorities. 

I'd say more like 85-90% flexibility. Usually you can get away from your work to go "play CAP", but once in a while you do have to pass up on CAP to get a major project done or deal put together. Otherwise, yes you're right.

I can tell you that I have a job working for municipal government in MA and in order to do anything CAP related, be it an actual mission,  or training _ I use my own earned time off (vacation time) and the local government will NOT cover the time for me. I am fortunate to have a job where I have a decent amount of vactation time, but I spend at least 75% of it doing CAP work. I agree it could be a real career stopper for anyone

Interesting. One of the guys in our squadron works for TxDOT and usually if he needs to go on a mission he just tells his boss and goes, no big deal. The only times he can't is when the government needs him for DR related stuff and the like (i.e. keeping traffic flowing in and out of a disaster area).

[Flying Pig]

In regards to the Region Commander stepping back, your assuming that he works Mon-Fri 8-5.  In many LE or Public Safety Agencies, when you get into the management levels  You work ALL THE TIME.  When you start taking time off for your volunteering, thats not going to sit well.
My boss literally works probably 6 days per week.  On vacation, I see him in the office dealing with situations.  They are usually always on call.  You don't just clock out at the end of the day and shut off your cell phone.  In many agencies, 100% commitment is required.  Being a Region Commander has to be an unbelievable amount of time and responsibility.  I would bet this commander just had to make a decision and decided there isnt enough time in a day to do both. 

Now, this same commander I work with would allow me to take time off for CAP activities, CD missions, SARs, Mountain Course, DEA Overflight Course, etc and it was considered training.  I couldnt go to encampment or SLS that way, but I bet if I really explained it, I could have done it based on Leadership Training.   But as an example, the Mountain Course.  The Dept could have paid a couple grand to send me to one AND pay me my salary or they could get a much longer course for free in CAP and pay me my salary.  Seems like a smart move on my commanders part.  But at his level, if he were in CAP there would be now way he would have time do both.  If I promoted or became the Chief Pilot, I imagine that would come to a halt because I am now needed at work to make things happen.  As it sits now, Im just a worker bee.

What this particular CAP region has now is a huge supporter of CAP possibly in a position to push CAP being used.  We just had a real SAR in my area.  As a former SqCC and an LE pilot, when I got the word on the crash the first thing I did was contact CAP who hadnt been alerted yet.  As the search progressed, I was able to push that CAP conduct the airborne search and was able to relay messages between CAP and the LE SAR teams and put people in contact with each other who wouldnt normally have access to each others cell phone numbers.  Lets face it, cops know how to talk to each other.  I could take information I had on a cop level, and translate it into CAP "talk" and visa versa.    No, I was not the puppet-master by any means but it has its benefits.

[Major Carrales]

The affairs of livelihood trump the affairs of CAP service in most cases.  I can, for example, only participate in CAP activities during the school year with the premission of the CAMPUS PRINCIPAL.

This year an issue almost came into being.  There is a mandate for all Unit Commanders to take the BASIC IG course.  It is being offered the friday before the TEXAS WING CONFERENCE...in conjuntion with it.  However, that day is also a testing day for the TEXAS "STAAR" test, a standardized test in accorance with STATE and FEDERAL mandates.  Thus, if it comes down to it....if I am administering the TEST, I could not go.  To take a "sick" or "personal" day against the wishes of the principal I would violate my integrity.

As it turns out, the test being administered that day is SCIENCE and I am a SOCIAL STUDIES teacher.  Thus, I am not directly testng.  The Principal let me go.

Now, what happens if work interfers?  Sad as I would have to say it...WORK takes priority over the squadron.

[Flying Pig]

CAP dont pay the bills