Civil Air Patrol Rangers

[Stonewall]

I was called a ground team member since I got qualified in 86.  It's as good of a term as any.  Regardless of what we call our guys, we need to make it consistant across the organization.

+1 (except for 87)

[RedFox24]

I think the funniest thing of this whole thread is how the use of some words or titles causes the feathers on some to stand up on both sides of the same words.  Titles, initials, contractions, acronyms, conjunctions, descriptions or what ever are not the issue.

I firmly believe that it goes back to being, acting, training and dressing professional.  NO name or title will make up for deficiencies in these areas.

.02 worth and expecting change.

[Flying Pig]

Wow...page after page.  Its a term we no longer use.  There are no "CAP Ranger Teams".  Can we just accept it was used out of context?

[wuzafuzz]

It is obvious, in my opinion anyway, that the ever going "inferiority complex" held by many CAPTALKERS about CAP will create the situation where any term will seems to be "poser/pretenderish."  I mean, really, the use of SARTECH would make people think we were trying to pose as Canadians?  Please!?!  If I didn't know this was posted here I might think that was satire.

I am sure that the term "Ground Team" is the most appropriate...unless one of you thinks its means we are trying to somehow pretend to be the Mission Control Team at ESA's Space Operations Centre (ESOC).

Note the riduculous nature of the matter.  I'm just calling them "CAP Ground Teams" and those in the air "CAP Aircrews."

Why the impression that a bunch of people have an inferiority complex?  It's an honest disagreement over titles and image, not a mental nervous condition.  IMHO some things are simply ostentatious and seem a little out of character for CAP.  I can assure you my opinion is most cetainly not the result of self-loathing, inferiority, or any other similar issue.

Unless there is a NIMS standard description that would be more appropriate, Ground Team and Ground Team Member / Leader is perfectly fine.

I suppose this conversation has exceeded the battery of a deceased equine limits.  Spirited conversation was entertaining though ;-) 

[heliodoc]

Yep

NIMS doesn't recognize "CAP Rangers" anyway 

So why not not stick wiith GTM /GTL

Inferiority complexes??   NAH  Only titles.... time to mode to the 21 st century anyway

Nice to to have memories of the old CAP Ranger daze but its  new era....

[alamrcn]

How about...Ground Team? There's no need or warrant for any special term.

That took FOREVER for you to get in on this! Congrats on Post #5000 by-the-way...

I have no problem with "Ground Team" as the official term. I'm just asking that if there WERE special teams, what acceptable PC'ish language would be available?

Did we have a need to create an "Urban Direction Finding" team? That IS a special skill, so why not one for teams specifically trained for mountainous terrain or extended field time with minimal support, for example.

A CAP Ranger, to me - and it has been mentioned ad nausea here by others  - infers someone trained in woodsmanship and survival skills.

[alamrcn]

So why not not stick wiith GTM /GTL

Whoops, don't forget GTM1, GTM2, GTM3...
So maybe different levels of Ground Teams, with a number to designate their level of training and experience?

[arajca]

Unless there is a NIMS standard description that would be more appropriate, Ground Team and Ground Team Member / Leader is perfectly fine.

Wilderness Search and Rescue Team, Type I -IV.

[ZigZag911]

When the use of the term Ranger originated in PA & NJ back in the early 70s, there were a lot of 'wannabes' involved (senior as well as cadet) that just aggravated those of us who took ES seriously. Many of their actions made CAP look ridiculous in the eyes of professional first responders, as well as the Real Military. The program also tended to be rather aggressive,  both in its training methods and in its relationship with other members (non-Rangers).

I'd have no objection to the renewed use of the term as long as arrogant elitism was left at the door (earned esprit de corps is perfectly acceptable -- as long as any qualified member has the opportunity to earn it!)

[NIN]

Wow...page after page.  Its a term we no longer use.  There are no "CAP Ranger Teams".  Can we just accept it was used out of context?

Clearly, you are not within the gravitational pull of the Keystone State.....

[NIN]

Did we have a need to create an "Urban Direction Finding" team? That IS a special skill, so why not one for teams specifically trained for mountainous terrain or extended field time with minimal support, for example.

Yeah, can I only conduct MOUT with my UDF team?  What happens if I have to visit an airpatch in the 'burbs?  Do we become a "Suburban Direction Finding Team?"  Couple miles later, I need to come up with a "Rural Direction Finding and Direction Giving" team ("Ya'll go up this here road a'piece and at the Smith farm, take that left...")?

[RedFox24]

Couple miles later, I need to come up with a "Rural Direction Finding and Direction Giving" team ("Ya'll go up this here road a'piece and at the Smith farm, take that left...")?

Don't make fun of where I live!!!

And by the way, you take a left where the forked ash tree USE to be................

Yes, I had that given to me once as directions and it is where I live.

[Turtle1]

As a former Ranger back in the 70's, being a Ranger was a good thing, but now in the 21st century it is important that we are unified in our mission.  No more " well I am a Ranger, therefore I am better".  The way Emergency Services is set up, we know that we can work with another person from another state and know they have the same qualifications as we do.  On a final note there is no room for elitism in Civil Air Patrol.

[lordmonar]

On a final note there is no room for elitism in Civil Air Patrol.

So....are you going to take off your rank and just be a SMWOR? Take off your GT badge?  What about all your ribbons?

"Elitism" is a slippery word.

[Flying Pig]

Really?  A GT badge is elite?  Elite is a mindset, not a badge.  You can think you are elite, and not be.  You can be elite and not care, or you can be elite and make sure everyone knows you are. 

[lordmonar]

And that is my point.

Elite...means that you are "better" then someone else....either by birth, education, training, wealth, location, position, ability, rank or any number of different factors.

We as leaders use elitism all the time to help build teams.

Elitsim is not in and of itself a bad thing.

We use it all the time.  If you finish your GT training we give you a badge....you wear it to show the world that you are "better" then the average CAP person.  PAWG uses the ranger program to try to make their GT's even better.

The accusation that elitism has no place in CAP is dead wrong.  Can elitism get out of hand....of course it can...I'm not saying that it can't or does not happen.  We have all seen the guy who lords it over everyone else that he went to hawk mountain/blue beret/got his mitchell and then takes it too far and a break down in local team building happens.

But that is an exaple of how one set of elitism is just interfering with your local set of eltism.

I was just pointing our that all outward displays of teams, ranks, specialties, awards are all forms of elitsm.

We have rank to show and a system of customs and courtisies that that make our higher ranking members more "elite" then our C/ABs.
We give ribbons to honor those who accomplish more so that they can be proud of their work AND to encourage others to work hard.  Fors some ribbons we even adopt addtional benifits that are exclusive to rank and file (Spaatz Assocation, the BSVM/SSVM honor role and on the real military side, saluting MOH recepiants).

All of these are forms of elitism.  We use this elitims to make our program better.  So elitism does have a place in CAP.

[flyerthom]

The bottom line is someone used an outdated term quoted from an outdated source. When a call out is needed I don't care what you call me, Air crew, ground crew, ranger, wing winnie, Bubba the av gas hog,
Just Call me! That's why I'm, and if I may say it, we're all here - to serve our town, state and nation.

[lordmonar]

The bottom line is someone used an outdated term quoted from an outdated source. When a call out is needed I don't care what you call me, Air crew, ground crew, ranger, wing winnie, Bubba the av gas hog,
Just Call me! That's why I'm, and if I may say it, we're all here - to serve our town, state and nation.

+1

[ol'fido]

1. The part about the Canadians was a JOKE!!! Get past it.

2. If you tell anybody in CAP you are with the ground team, they will know what you are talking about. However, if you wish to call your team the Anytown Composite Squadron Ranger Team so what. It doesn't mean that the entirety of CAP has to switch. It's just something you do to set yourself apart from the pack. It's why military units from long ago to the present day seek to distinguish themselves through unit patches, mottos, etc. It should be looked at as something to build unit esprit and team integrity.

3. It should not devolve into a clique or good ol' boy's club. It must have standards and strong leadership that puts the hype into its proper perspective. Anybody that has seen TAPS knows how a group like this can go awry. But that doesn't mean that we should ban them altogether. It just means that the standards and leadership must be exemplary.

4. Again, I'm not saying that CAP as a whole should adopt this type of program or its terminology. This should be a local, group, or wing program with clearly  defined standards, a clear mission, and appropriate checks and balances. There does not even have to be any special patches , badges, or other bling but like "blue berets" or "ranger flashes" they can be a positive thing if done right.

5. The RM does not own the names of their elite units. Not Ranger, not Green Beret, not even Marine. There are military forces all over the world that have these names. If we do adopt any that are used by the U.S. military, I do think we should take care not to be seen as imitators or posers. So no gold/black ranger arcs,etc.

6. Once more since my previous posts apparently didn't make it clear. THE CANADIAN THING WAS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[flyguy06]

This post made me think of something. Its funny, in the army when Ragers come into a room, they like to wear the big, bright "RANGER" shirts wih the buzz cuts and talk about how Hoooah they are. When SF folks come into a room, they usually dont say anything thatlinks them to SF> They dont wear shirts, they dont "broadcast" who they are. And I realized they dont have to. You dont have to broadcast who you are or have a "fancy:" title. if you do your job correctly and professionally people will recognize you.

I really hate to use this example. But look at the USMC vs the Army. In the Army, we have "eliet" units like the 82nd, the 101st, the 75th RGR Regt. and they are usually identified by a different type of headgear than the rest of the army. But look at the USMC. I hate to admit it but they are truly "one" unit. They dont distinqusih each other by wearing something that sets them apart from everybody else intheir organization. A Marine is a Marine is a MArine. Doesnt matter if you are an admin specialist or a Force Recon, They all wear the same uniform and they all look the same. That too me is true brotherhood and esprit de corps. We feel the need to spereate units by headgear and that creates a culture of "elitism" The USMC doesnt do that. If you put three mairmes in a room, the novice could not tell who was the recon, who was the supply guy or who was the cook. I kind of like that attitude.

But I still love my U.S. Army.