Facebook Security Dangers

[Eclipse]

helio - you're not even discussing the same issue.   

This has nothing to do with whether CAP is a private or public org, or its overall positive press, and everything to do with the new issues being brought to the front when the entire world is digitized and indexed.

25 years ago your photos weren't posted in a public area that the entire world could see, comment on and reuse to their heart's content.  Nor was your unit bulletin board indexed for 1-click searching, and the pictures there weren't tagged so that every bit and byte is further crossed referenced into the tubes.

As to your comments on OPSEC and FOUO - 25 years ago your written communications weren't being scraped for content by dozens of mail servers all over the world.  The computing capability to listen or scrape for key phrases across millions of messages didn't exist, let alone be available to anyone with a few hundred dollars for botnet access.

25 years ago, the ability to send a single photograph to the entire world and end the career or credibility or someone or an organization with a single click was non-existent.

Ask Michael Phelps what he thinks about privacy and the internet.

[heliodoc]

Thanks for help , Eclipse

I know the dangers of today quite well

Thanks for the current day education

Phelps and I we are on the phone right now......

[winterg]

The Phelps issue is a perfect example.  Maybe he shouldn't have used drugs.  Then his amazing accomplishments wouldn't be so tarnished.

If we make sure we are acting properly (and look professional) when in CAP uniform then any pictures can only help our image.  The same can be said for our personal lives.  If you don't want a picture of "it" getting out (excluding OPSEC issues) you probably shouldn't be doing it! lol (speaking from experience  )

As to the concurrent issue being discussed in this thread.  Please put the copy of 1984 down.

[flyguy06]

I have my army pics on Facebook. Whats the big deal?

[Eclipse]

I have my army pics on Facebook. Whats the big deal?

You...want...them...there...

[M.S.]

I have my army pics on Facebook. Whats the big deal?

zOMGSss!!! OPSECx violations!!!!111  Teh Bad guys will find us all now!!  They now know what Civil Air Patrols AND Army members looks liek!  They will be able to take over now.   Did you get model releases from EVERY other Army dudes in the backgrounds?  And have them each fill out individual personal privacy feelings surveys?  

[PhoenixRisen]

I'm so glad that you get pages and pages of images of "The Bronx Bomber" (an 80's boxer) when you search my name.  Phew.


(Ok, ok - fine - one picture actually comes up of me... In a group, from 2006...  But that's about it)

[flyguy06]

I have my army pics on Facebook. Whats the big deal?

zOMGSss!!! OPSECx violations!!!!111  Teh Bad guys will find us all now!!  They now know what Civil Air Patrols AND Army members looks liek!  They will be able to take over now.   Did you get model releases from EVERY other Army dudes in the backgrounds?  And have them each fill out individual personal privacy feelings surveys?  

[NIN]

Let me steer this back on topic a bit..

I guess I shouldn't have to remind some folks that today's social networks are to, say, bulletin boards & newsletters what email was to the telephone and the postal service nearly 15 years ago.  Truly I am amazed that there are folks, especially folks within the technology field, who hold fairly Luddite views on these things.  

I was the IT Director at a small liberal arts college up here in New England until about 4 1/2 months ago.  During my tenure there, Facebook arrived, and then EXPLODED all over the face of things, so to speak.  I was present during the first discussions between students and the administration over the concept of "Internet privacy" as it pertained to Facebook.

A number of students were decidedly unhappy (I believe the word was "pissed" but the curse filter may obviate that word) that at some point during the vetting process for Residence Advisors, someone looked on Facebook and noted a number of photos depicting some RA applicants who were less than 21 with alcoholic beverages in their hands.  This resulted in these applicants having their applications placed in the "EPIC FAIL" pile.  

These students were unhappy that someone had gone onto a public place (Facebook) and observed photographs of them posted in that same public place, in most instances posted BY THEM (I believe this was before the concept of "tagging" was brought to FB but I could be wrong), doing things that were something you don't want your RA's doing and especially don't want them condoning of their charges.  Especially after most of them swore up and down they were as virtuous as alter boys.

I sat in these meetings in amazement.  Kids had just posted photos of them doing something illegal, in a publicly accssible forum, and then had a sufficient degree of logical disconnect to swear up and down that they should not be judged on either their colossally poor judgment or their obvious inability to connect cause with effect.   They said things like "Well, those are my photos, you shouldn't be looking at them." or "I didn't post them for you to look at, just my friends" or my favorite "The Internet isn't a public place. Its the Internet." (oh, man, after that guy graduated, he worked for the Department of Redundancy Department.")

Finally, I got fed up and said to the head instigator, a young man who was very intellectually smart but possessed less common sense than the armrest in my car: "OK, let me pose a hypothetical to you.  You just got back from the local Walgreens with your double-prints of the film from your latest frat party bash.  So your buddies will see them, you make sure that you stick them on the bulletin board in the hallway.   Some days later, the area coordinator (a staff member who supervises the RAs) sees these photos, and remembers that you're not old enough to drink. Even in Canada.  The some weeks later, when its time to interview RA candidates, this area coordinator remembers your 'Tower of Molson Power' image from the frat party and decides that your statement of 'I would never condone underage drinking' does not square with the image of you doing Atomic Keg Stands, or the pic of you passed out in a crumpled heap in the living room of the frat at 18 years old.   He declines to hire you as an RA for the coming academic year.  Who is wrong here?  You, the guy who drank underage, and then posted photos of it for everybody to see, while at the same time saying you don't condone underage drinking and expecting someone to believe that stinking load of crap, or the area coordinator, the guy who doesn't want a lying weasel with piss-poor judgment and a terminal case of the stupids to supervise freshmen next year? And besides, if you pinned up your photos in a public place, like that hallway, you have now COMPLETELY lost the expectation of privacy.  Think of Facebook as that bulletin board..."

Clearly, their argument stemmed from a slightly different situation, however.  Had this guy's buddy stuck up on the bulletin board a photo of  this guy, clearly passed out from excessive consumption, with Sharpie, *ahem*, phrases scrawled on his forehead, without his permission or knowledge, and the area coordinator looked at them, the buddy is surely at risk for screwing his friend, but does it change the fact that the behavior occurred anyway?  No.

Its like these so-called "celebrities" who wind up with photos or video of them doing really intimate things on the Internet.  If you pose in front of the camera, or allow yourself to be photographed by your amateur cinematographer boyfriend doing things your mom doesn't need to see, chances are you're going to be giving mom a show eventually. Nature of the beast.  Would help if you just didn't do it in the first place, or have photos taken of it, in any event.

I make sure that people have a tough time taking photos of me doing something stupid. I don't always succeed.  

[Eclipse]

You're still assuming the issue here is getting narc'ed out doing something dumb.

I don't care if its the best staged portrait of me ever taken - if I want it posted publicly, I'll do it myself.  Have photos of you doing something "awesome" in CAP? Fine - there's no reason to be tagging all the other random people in the photo so that searchs for them come up as well.

[Pylon]

You're still assuming the issue here is getting narc'ed out doing something dumb.

I don't care if its the best staged portrait of me ever taken - if I want it posted publicly, I'll do it myself.  Have photos of you doing something "awesome" in CAP? Fine - there's no reason to be tagging all the other random people in the photo so that searchs for them come up as well.

You do know that active tags only can be made if you have a Facebook account, and you can remove the tags of you on anyone's photos (which also prevents the user from retagging them), right?

[NIN]

Two things I thought of this morning...

I know two guys who are on Facebook.  Each is, obstensibly, a "public figure."   One is a political operative in Michigan, the other an aspiring country & western signer in Nashville.  Each is a former CAP cadet.

In every instance where one of them was tagged in a photo from "Back In The Day," they've untagged themselves.  In the C&W singer's case, its because he's using FB as a marketing vehicle and photos of him looking like a gigantic high school chess club dork in an Air Force uniform are probably not going to be beneficial to his demographic. (oh and he sure looked like a gigantic high school chess club dork back then, too.  Thick glasses, etc... I can see why)

In the other instance, I suppose that this "political operative" wants to downplay his background.  Whatever.   Honestly, after I had friended him up all I got was reams upon reams of BS political rantings in his status updates (it was right around the election) and stuff that he was doing on a radio show he hosts.  I soon realized that maybe his untagging of all his CAP historical photos was actually for the best, since I didn't think that CAP would much want to be associated in any way with an outright hack like him.   I unfriended him a month or so later because I got tired of the vitrol.

The other thing that I wanted to bring up was part of my post above but I got distracted and my laptop was running out of juice.  At the same time we started having these Internet privacy discussions with the students, the administration also started ramping up its presence on Facebook.  Some of the more savvy profs were already there  and in a meeting of all the middle-management team, people were encouraged to setup FB pages on their own.  Some folks (ie. admissions) offered to help the less knowledgeable.  Admissions had been using FB like crazy for many months and they had a fairly well developed FB presence.

One of our profs who was also the Dean of Faculty came to me, distraught at the idea that she *had* to put her personal information on FB and that people would see it.  I patiently explained to her that she had fairly granular and nearly complete control over what information was there and what was available to whom.    And my overriding caveat to the whole thing was "If you don't want it there at all, just don't put it there."

Sure, your name is there. Maybe even a nice flattering photo.  But you can restrict and control just about EVERYTHING else.

She now has a nice, simple FB page that allows her students another avenue to get in touch with her, and yet nobody still knows where she lives, who her husband is, who her dog is, etc, etc, etc....

Its hard to control the presence if you don't participate.  If you do participate, however, you have a much better chance of controlling the message.

[winterg]

^+1

[Rob Sherlin]

  Sometimes you can't stop the photos from appearing...The fact you have to realize is that there is no danger from it unless there's information with it..." This is my buddy "so and so" who is affiliated with "such and such" organization. And even then, I really don't think anyone is out to target CAP members, it would kind of be a waste of time to terrorist and such ( I really don't know what the fear is about ). If you are the main subject in a picture, then they should ask you for permission. If you're just in the background....well, most people don't usually put that much information in those situations as to where you need to fear anyway.

[JoeTomasone]

I was in God-knows-how-many tourists' photographs when I lived in Paris.  A photograph of me taken drinking a beer on a sidewalk cafe appeared in an advertisement in a Chicago airport once; I had no idea it was going to be used commercially.   The point is if you don't tell people you don't want your photo taken up front, you don't have much recourse after the fact. 

Ahh, negative, sir.    The law on this is pretty clear; photographs of you used for personal things are fair game, but commercial use without permission is a big no-no.   The company that made that ad owes you money, and likely damages since it was used without permission (depending on the law in France which I am admittedly unfamiliar with).

Generally speaking, your photograph can be used in conjunction with reporting news without license.  However, a newspaper cannot use your image in a way that falsely portrays you. 

And before anyone gets carried away, these are (pretty good) generalities, but each State has their own right-to-privacy/publicity laws. 

As far as Facebook goes, if a member posts your photo, you have no legal recourse.

[Rob Sherlin]

 OK, maybe I missunderstood the intent of the post. I was under the assumption that the upset was caused by someone the individual knew........My mistake. I agree, general media such as news and such is different, but why would it be a topic on myspace? Granted I don't participate on myspace and really just see it as a way to "show off"....."Look at me, I have a website", type of thing. But from what I understand about myspace, it's mostly just individuals. So, what pictures could someone be talking about? If it's someone just using your photo maliciously out of revenge or whatever reason with a caption or story that's untrue, you may not be able to do anything about the posting of the photo, but can't you sue for slander?

[winterg]

Myspace and facebook came in very handy when I was away in the military and when my friends were/are.  It is a valuable tool to keep in touch and exchange messages with friends and family, sometimes on a daily basis.  I live very far from any family and see them only once or twice a year.  But with Facebook and I can chat with them as often as I want for free.  Like any technology, social networking sites can be used for anything from frivolous inanity to actual practical applications and everything in between.

I do like Facebook for the fact that if I do not add you as a friend (and I don't unless I personally know them) you cannot see my profile or anything about me or my pictures.

[Eclipse]

It is a valuable tool to keep in touch and exchange messages with friends and family, sometimes on a daily basis.  I live very far from any family and see them only once or twice a year.  But with Facebook and I can chat with them as often as I want for free. 

People say that all the time.

How is this different / better from email and IM?

[Pylon]

People say that all the time.

How is this different / better from email and IM?

Uhm, besides being completely different from the basics of its design and concept?  Or was that rhetorical?

[NIN]

People say that all the time.

How is this different / better from email and IM?

People said the same thing about the phone and the US Mail, too....