Restoration of adult member NCO chevron ranks?

[ol'fido]

Well, I just got a LinkedIn request from a Major General in the US Ranger Corps. Deleted it.

[NCRblues]

Well, I just got a LinkedIn request from a Major General in the US Ranger Corps. Deleted it.

Really?? I thought it had all but died out... How is it still going?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Well, I just got a LinkedIn request from a Major General in the US Ranger Corps. Deleted it.

Really?? I thought it had all but died out... How is it still going?

Was it this guy:

Commander, 4th Division USRCUnited States Ranger CorpsSeptember 2008 – Present (5 years)Oversight of units in Eastern USA with objective to recruit new members and commission new units.

He used to do this:

Retired Civil Air Patrol 1998-2012United States Air Force Auxiliary Civil Air PatrolMay 1998 – Present (15 years 4 months)Florida Wing Chaplain for two tours of duty, Staff Chaplain Southeast Region, founder and former commander for Springfield Composite Squadron FL-027 which has both Senior and Cadet Members.  CAP provides Aerospace, Emergency Services and Cadet programs.

Additional Honors & AwardsWho's Who in Education
Who's Who in Professional Management
Who's Who in Christian Leadership
30 military / CAP medals with muliple decorations
Decorated by USMC, USN, USAF and USArmy

[ol'fido]

Picture doesn't match, but that's the job description  he gave. Didn't read much past USRC.

[Papabird]

The "US Ranger Corpse" website has been under construction for years, with no information.  I am impressed to even see a uniform, but the picture scares me!!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Wonder if they are using white aviator shirts most of their members most likely already had.

[Archer]

What's all this USRC stuff? Did I miss something?

[Jaison009]

That made me laugh out loud in a room full of people who thought I was crazy  :clap:

Wonder if they are using white aviator shirts most of their members most likely already had.

[Jaison009]

http://usrangercorps.us/  There you go. Their reputation with government proceeds them. They usually get the same reputation as Global Operations Division Special Operations http://www.god-is.in/Special-Operations.html and many of the other fly by night agencies that no one wants or asks to show up in DR situations.

What's all this USRC stuff? Did I miss something?

[Eclipse]

Wow - and the "also may knows" light up a whole wonderland of "fun".
Holey smokes, Don Shipley is only one man!  Lord help him and the guys at TAH!

In the top ten list of annoyances are people who I have never met, never worked with, and have no idea who I am, asking
to "connect" with me on Linked In, because I am some 8th-level connection of someone who is a fifth level of someone they never met,
and they just go in and click "connect" (or whatever).

Even better is being "recommended" for skills by someone who has no idea what the word means, and never worked with me in that capacity.
It just shows how worthless those recommendations are.  The only person your are fooling is yourself and your Grandmother.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Yea, MG above has maxed out his WoW Stats LinkedIn recommendations on about 10+ fields with 99 recommendations in each.

[Archer]

Explain like I'm 5, what is the problem with USRC?

[Eclipse]

Explain like I'm 5, what is the problem with USRC?

Again, search is your friend.

It was started by HWSRN as an attempt to compete with CAP after he was demoted and terminated. 
Beyond a website perpetually under construction and a few people purporting to be Generals and other
high ranking officials of the organizations, it has no public presence or apparent operations.

[a2capt]

Generalissimo's plans to create a haven for himself and his Generalissimus clan were foiled .. so he started his own organization, so he could be whatever he wanted.

..and I doubt they would have had NCO ranks either. 

But it did remove quite a few interesting, and brainwashed people from our ranks.. ;-) as they turned to lemmings and followed.

[DennisH]

Had to chime in I am very new to CAP and a retired Army 1SG. When I Joined I was thinking I would be more comfortable as an NCO, something I had earned over 35 years. I was very  uncomfortable being called Sir. I also had a trained response of "Don't you call me Sir, I work for a living" which is not well received. In the beginning I took my guidance from my Squadron Commander and took my rank as a 1LT which still made me uncomfortable. My decision point was met while serving as a TAC  officer during encampment, while I am still slightly uncomfortable being called Sir I understood that I can better serve the Squadron as an Officer. In the back of my mind I would still prefer to be called Sergeant specially when I am performing drill training with the Seniors or demonstrating command voice to the Cadet NCO's because it feels more right.
One of the things I noticed in some responses is a concern that an NCO can not advance in his NCO rank since there is no rank progression programmed into CAP for NCOs on the Senior side. I for one wouldn't have a care in the world if I remained the same rank until time ends. I joined to share my knowledge, finally see my youngest son excell in this program, and because I was amazed at the dedication and selfless service that this small cross section of youth demonstrates. I am not in the program for myself, I am done taking care of my own career and  only care for the Cadets.

[Eclipse]

"Don't you call me Sir, I work for a living" which is not well received.

It wasn't well received because assuming it ever was an appropriate response, it isn't any more, considering the high level or professionals and
NCO's with college degrees in today's military, not to mention that in a CAP paradigm it insinuates that the officers aren't doing as much as the handful of members
who have chosen note to accept CAP appointment.

One of the things I noticed in some responses is a concern that an NCO can not advance in his NCO rank since there is no rank progression programmed into CAP for NCOs on the Senior side. I for one wouldn't have a care in the world if I remained the same rank until time ends. I joined to share my knowledge, finally see my youngest son excell in this program, and because I was amazed at the dedication and selfless service that this small cross section of youth demonstrates. I am not in the program for myself, I am done taking care of my own career and  only care for the Cadets.

Well good on you for that, but I don't think it would be unfair to detect some hint of attitude towards the senior members around you, maybe I'm seeing too much here,
but those seniors makes up more then 1/2 of CAP, and without them, the "selfless service" of the youth, who, in fact are >being served< by the seniors, would not exist.

And this idea that seniors don't need to progress is one of the reasons we have such knowledge and leadership gaps, because too many people walk around picking things off
a menu, and then wonder why the heavy lifting and the details aren't covered by "someone else".

[RiverAux]

I for one wouldn't have a care in the world if I remained the same rank until time ends. I joined to share my knowledge, finally see my youngest son excell in this program, and because I was amazed at the dedication and selfless service that this small cross section of youth demonstrates. I am not in the program for myself, I am done taking care of my own career and  only care for the Cadets.

I think the concern is not just that individual NCOs can't promote, its that there is also no incentive for them to participate in the CAP senior member professional development program.  While I doubt CAP has much to teach a former high-level military NCO about leadership and the like, there is still stuff to learn about CAP as part of the PD program that not only increases their level of knowledge about how CAP works, it also prepares them to do certain CAP jobs. 

In other word, an NCO that joins and never promotes and never does any PD does have something to contribute, but an NCO that has some incentive to do PD and does so could contribute more to the organization.   

[DennisH]

"Don't you call me Sir, I work for a living" which is not well received.

It wasn't well received because assuming it ever was an appropriate response, it isn't any more, considering the high level or professionals and
NCO's with college degrees in today's military, not to mention that in a CAP paradigm it insinuates that the officers aren't doing as much as the handful of members
who have chosen note to accept CAP appointment.

One of the things I noticed in some responses is a concern that an NCO can not advance in his NCO rank since there is no rank progression programmed into CAP for NCOs on the Senior side. I for one wouldn't have a care in the world if I remained the same rank until time ends. I joined to share my knowledge, finally see my youngest son excell in this program, and because I was amazed at the dedication and selfless service that this small cross section of youth demonstrates. I am not in the program for myself, I am done taking care of my own career and  only care for the Cadets.

Well good on you for that, but I don't think it would be unfair to detect some hint of attitude towards the senior members around you, maybe I'm seeing too much here,
but those seniors makes up more then 1/2 of CAP, and without them, the "selfless service" of the youth, who, in fact are >being served< by the seniors, would not exist.

And this idea that seniors don't need to progress is one of the reasons we have such knowledge and leadership gaps, because too many people walk around picking things off
a menu, and then wonder why the heavy lifting and the details aren't covered by "someone else".

Sir, let me better explain, I never uttered a time honored joke between Senior NCO's and their commanding Officers, I merely had that response in my head and when alone with my fellow Officers I would joke that that would be my regular response, never in front of or in ear shot of cadets or other members that were not aware that is was a joke response. I won't get into the recent requirement that Senior NCO's have degrees or pursue higher education to be more like their officer counterparts. Having reached the level of advancement that I had set a goal for, I have been exposed to most of the social engineering.

Further more I have zero attitude towards my Senior counterparts and treat them with the utmost of respect, I am the one that feels I haven't earned my bars, maybe I am to set in my ways that has yet to be seen. As far as I know from the feedback I get my Squadron is very pleased with my duty performance and contributions to the program. I don't understand your comment about over half the Seniors making up CAP. I never made any derogatory mark about Seniors. I was focusing on NCO' s wanting to serve in their former ranks without concern for their OWN RANK progression. I still take all the required and more professional developent courses so that I can better serve. I  do this so I can better understand CAP, due to my indoctrination in another service. I am in no rush to be promoted but I don't deride or insult another Senior for wanting to advance.

I have no idea what your background is or how you came to CAP so maybe I am stuck in a mindset that was encoded in me at 17. I truly doubt that I would be lumped in with anyone that sits back and lets others do he heavy lifting. I ask and fill in where needed regardless of the task. Since its hard to get an honest read on someone on the Internet I could never truly prove to anyone what dues I have paid and will glady continue to do so.

On a side note I notice more discouragement here about former NCOs that wish to serve in their old ranks. While understand that CAP has to focus on its core mission I see no need to discourage those who want to serve regardless of rank. Maybe its just me I have been wrong many times before.

[DennisH]

I for one wouldn't have a care in the world if I remained the same rank until time ends. I joined to share my knowledge, finally see my youngest son excell in this program, and because I was amazed at the dedication and selfless service that this small cross section of youth demonstrates. I am not in the program for myself, I am done taking care of my own career and  only care for the Cadets.

I think the concern is not just that individual NCOs can't promote, its that there is also no incentive for them to participate in the CAP senior member professional development program.  While I doubt CAP has much to teach a former high-level military NCO about leadership and the like, there is still stuff to learn about CAP as part of the PD program that not only increases their level of knowledge about how CAP works, it also prepares them to do certain CAP jobs. 

In other word, an NCO that joins and never promotes and never does any PD does have something to contribute, but an NCO that has some incentive to do PD and does so could contribute more to the organization.   

Sir, I understand what you are saying, I can't speak for other NCO's but since I have joined I have sought out both PD and other sources for education, this site being one of a few I have learned from. Just because some of us are former NCO's from different services, it doesn't mean that we were good leaders or are proficient. From personal experience I have seen some real losers make it through the system that couldn't lead to save thier lives. In other words they couldn't find their fourth point of contact with both hands and a map.

I am all for a professional development but I also believe that NCO's can assist greatly in training young Cadet NCO's. It seems to me that Cadets rush through the ranks to make 2LT and never truly understand the role of an NCO. That is something that would serve them well should they actually enlist or be commissioned into a Service component. In the Squadron in which I now serve, I emphasize the NCO role in that short window the Cadets have so that I see an NCO conducting drill and inspections instead of the Cadet Commander micro managing while the NCO' sit there like basic Airmen. If Cadets go through the program thinking that Officers run everything and that NCO's can't be trusted to do their duty then they will be in for a real bad awakening even if the join the Air Force. Which is no insult to the Airforce, different services have different cultures.

[RiverAux]

The question is whether or not that same value can be imparted to the cadets by someone wearing CAP officers rank as well as someone wearing a CAP NCO rank.  I suspect the hundreds or thousands of former NCOs that have chosen to serve as CAP officers would say that they can do it just as well wearing bars as stripes. 

The problem is that CAP has no administrative need NCOs as do the armed forces.  The simple fact is that the military needs NCOs to ensure that work gets done and for oversight of non-NCO enlisted.  CAP doesn't work that way and probably never will. 

The thing is that if a CAP NCO were performing the same sort of duties in CAP as they were in the military they would actually be serving as great examples to cadet NCOs.  But that isn't the case.  All a CAP NCO can do is tell someone how an NCO can act, they really aren't going to have a lot of chances to SHOW them, which is a much better way of teaching.  That being the case, a former NCO that is a CAP Lt. Col. can just as effectively share their experience as an NCO with a cadet as can a CAP NCO.  I don't think its going to make much difference to the cadet what is on their shoulder or sleeve -- its their history that counts. 

Until we have a demonstrated need for NCOs, the "program" such as it is is basically represents a backwards form of elitism whereby former NCOs choose to stand out from everyone else.  Although I am certainly not advocating it, it would make more logical sense for most CAP members to be enlisted and that only former military officers would be allowed to wear officer rank.  That makes more sense than lumping together non-prior service and former military officers in the officer corps while only allowing prior NCOs to be CAP NCOs. 

The cadet role model argument is probably about the most common one presented for a CAP NCO corps, but the fact that only a 50 or so (as of the last time I heard a number a few years ago) CAP members that have chosen NCO rank shows that most former NCOs don't really think that is a good enough reason to be an NCO rather than a CAP officer. 

If CAP comes up with a much stronger reason to have NCOs things might change, but I wouldn't bet on it.