New NCO Promotion Regulations

[Shuman 14]

If only you would step into the existing CAP organization on an active basis and seek a leadership role where you could possibly affect CAP programs (Cadet or otherwise), even if simply at the local level.  Think of all that you could accomplish with your MS in OL&S and "... 24+ years in Armed Forces and 10+ years in Law Enforcement and 15+ years of private security experience ...".

But instead, you've chosen to go to occasional CAP parties and awards functions, donate BDU's that you have no further use for and cut your annual Patron Membership check (a little over half of what a Full Membership typically costs, by the way), and then spend your time posting here on CAP Talk discussing Senior Member advancement issues you are not a part of or the colors/shades of the pantaloons of a CAP uniform you are not permitted to wear - http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19359.20.  Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, Oscar?

Even as 'just' a Patron Member, you could be spending whatever free time you might have writing up leadership lesson plans and exercises, based upon your voluminous education and tremendous experience in things mil as shown above, and passing them off to a local Cadet squadron.  The Senior Members there would doubtless be very appreciative as they are likely way too busy doing their 'part-time' best fulfilling National's/Wing's/Group's admin requirements in successfully running a Squadron to be worried about what shade of grey slacks their comrades happen to be wearing.

Feel free to step up to the plate (see first paragraph) any time at all, and let us all know when you've actually got some skin in this game.  I for one would be interested in seeing how that might work out for you.

And I just might, last year was a little busy, finished my Masters, completed Command and General Staff College for the USAR and attended the VA's Police Academy.

My first child was born on the 12th of last month so "She-who-must-be-Obeyed" and I are still adjusting to our new Princess in our lives but as life calms down a bit and I've now got a set shift at work, finding time to support the USCGAux and CAP will come off the back burner is better "maybe" than when I first started posting here.

[ColonelJack]

My first child was born on the 12th of last month

May I be among the first here to offer congratulations!  (They know what causes that now, by the way.)

Jack

[Shuman 14]

Thank you Sir! 

[Private Investigator]

My first child was born on the 12th of last month so ..

Congratulations. In Chinese astrology she is a horse. That is a good thing.  :clap:

[Майор Хаткевич]

My first child was born on the 12th of last month so ..

Congratulations. In Chinese astrology she is a horse. That is a good thing.  :clap:

As a fellow Horse (1990), I agree!

[MacGruff]

My first child was born on the 12th of last month so "She-who-must-be-Obeyed" and I are still adjusting to our new Princess in our lives but as life calms down a bit and I've now got a set shift at work, finding time to support the USCGAux and CAP will come off the back burner is better "maybe" than when I first started posting here.

Congratulations on the new arrival!

You are now launched on an "interesting" course of your life! Enjoy it to its fullest.

[Bobble]

And I just might, last year was a little busy, finished my Masters, completed Command and General Staff College for the USAR and attended the VA's Police Academy.

You forgot to include your volunteering as the Sgt. At Arms at AL Munster Post 16.  And yet, despite all that, you were still somehow able to find the time to spend 5 days, 16 hours and 11 minutes (as of 10/19/14 @2353) logged in here at CAP Talk since your join date of 06/11/13 plugging in those 675 comments, 53% of which were in the "Uniforms and Awards" category regarding uniforms and awards you are not authorized to wear.

Awesome-Sauce! But I'm still interested in hearing back when "might' becomes something a bit more concrete (like CPO, CDC, CDS, CD, or CC at a local Squadron).

[flyboy53]

How about this one.

For the general guy off the street, no special qualifications, no prior military, no nothing....just a 18 year old wishing to serve.

Joins up as an Airman Basic, six moths gets Amn, 10 months later A1C, after three years he gets SrA.

At that point he can (if he qualifies) go to a CAP OTS (sort of like RCS but different) and at the four year mark puts on 2d Lt.

If he can't go officer, he gos to a CAP NCO School and at the four year mark puts on SSgt.

For those non-prior military types with special qualifications CAP is looking for (Pilots, Lawyers, Chaplains, etc)....they join at the six month mark they put on FO, at the sixteen month mark they put on TFO, and at three years they put on SFO....they then go to the OTS and put on 2d Lt.

Prior military personnel can AFTER SIX MONTHS apply for and be appointed to appropriate CAP grade.

Just to point out.....this is my own little ideal, I have no idea if the NCO corps team is working on something like this.

I like your ideal.   :clap:

I couldn't agree more.

I see where the organization is going with this. We are ramping up the professionalism of our volunteers.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH EMBRACING CHANGE INSTEAD OF THE SAME OL' STATUS QUO. Doesn't the status quo excuse get old?

Also, instead of slamming the potential idea of a college education, remember that military commissioning programs don't necessarily require formal college degrees. In some programs its only the number of college credits or hours. Don't believe me, check out the appointment requirements of a chaplain.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, the most important aspect is that the program has the CSAF's attention. We should embrace it and try to make it work. Failure to do so, may have more of an impact on the future of this organization than you think.

[Eclipse]

We are ramping up the professionalism of our volunteers.

Really?  How?

Also, Lordmonor's idea isn't "the" idea it's just "his" idea.

All CAP is doing is changing the drapes because fixing the roof is to hard.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, the most important aspect is that the program has the CSAF's attention.

And as mentioned, it squandered that attention with a per project instead of addressing issues important to CAP's long term viability.

[flyboy53]

We are ramping up the professionalism of our volunteers.

Really?  How?

Also, Lordmonor's idea isn't "the" idea it's just "his" idea.

All CAP is doing is changing the drapes because fixing the roof is to hard.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, the most important aspect is that the program has the CSAF's attention.

And as mentioned, it squandered that attention with a per project instead of addressing issues important to CAP's long term viability.

Did you ever consider that a NCO Program may be part of the issue?

So often in this forum, members (and non-members) espouse those ideas that are important to them because ultimately they can't move mountains on their own and they try to drum up support from the field. So often the opponents only receive scorn if they agree or disagree with something.

I was around when the NCO program was eliminated in this organization and from the Air Force side, I found out why. When that issue keeps being aired in this forum, someone else keeps coming up with the idea that there should be no ranks but that runs counter to how the organization was originally formed and what tends to attract the members.

Ultimately, true the CAP has its flaws. Ultimately this program has its flaws, but you have to start somewhere.

[Shuman 14]

And I just might, last year was a little busy, finished my Masters, completed Command and General Staff College for the USAR and attended the VA's Police Academy.

You forgot to include your volunteering as the Sgt. At Arms at AL Munster Post 16.  And yet, despite all that, you were still somehow able to find the time to spend 5 days, 16 hours and 11 minutes (as of 10/19/14 @2353) logged in here at CAP Talk since your join date of 06/11/13 plugging in those 675 comments, 53% of which were in the "Uniforms and Awards" category regarding uniforms and awards you are not authorized to wear.

Awesome-Sauce! But I'm still interested in hearing back when "might' becomes something a bit more concrete (like CPO, CDC, CDS, CD, or CC at a local Squadron).

While I'm still a member of Post 16, I had to let the SAA position go, no time and haven't attended a meeting in many moons for the same reason.

Most on my online posts are made while working non-patrol duties (i.e. sitting in a Gate House or operating dispatch) where I can multi-task when things are slow.

As to your stats check, thanks for the break down. I post a lot in uniforms because uniforms, awards and decorations are a hobby of mine and in almost every command I've served in, when it came to medals and ribbons, I was/am the subject matter expert. Putting together other Soldiers ribbon racks and assisting with getting their uniforms ready for DA Photos and Boards was something I've always done.

[Shuman 14]

My first child was born on the 12th of last month so ..

Congratulations. In Chinese astrology she is a horse. That is a good thing.  :clap:

As a fellow Horse (1990), I agree!

What's the cut off date? I'm on the 9th and I was told I was a Dog.

[Shuman 14]

We are ramping up the professionalism of our volunteers.

Really?  How?

Also, Lordmonor's idea isn't "the" idea it's just "his" idea.

All CAP is doing is changing the drapes because fixing the roof is to hard.

Regardless of where you stand on this issue, the most important aspect is that the program has the CSAF's attention.

And as mentioned, it squandered that attention with a per project instead of addressing issues important to CAP's long term viability.

Did you ever consider that a NCO Program may be part of the issue?

So often in this forum, members (and non-members) espouse those ideas that are important to them because ultimately they can't move mountains on their own and they try to drum up support from the field. So often the opponents only receive scorn if they agree or disagree with something.

I was around when the NCO program was eliminated in this organization and from the Air Force side, I found out why. When that issue keeps being aired in this forum, someone else keeps coming up with the idea that there should be no ranks but that runs counter to how the organization was originally formed and what tends to attract the members.

Ultimately, true the CAP has its flaws. Ultimately this program has its flaws, but you have to start somewhere.

Sir,

If I may ask, why was the NCO program originally eliminated from CAP?

[Flying Pig]

As much as I am against the implementation of the NCO program in CAP, I do believe completely that it should in no way affect a persons decision to join, quite or not join at all. 

Roles will all overlap regardless of ranks worn.  A Lt Col at a mission base will still make coffee runs for the SSGT working in the Comm shop.  A SSgt will still call his buddy who is a Major "Fred" and in the end, Captain Smith will still empty the trash as MSgt Jones holds the lid of the dumpster open for him.  And when we all meet at Burger King for the after party, none of it matters anyway. 

[Shuman 14]

As much as I am against the implementation of the NCO program in CAP, I do believe completely that it should in no way affect a persons decision to join, quite or not join at all. 

Roles will all overlap regardless of ranks worn.  A Lt Col at a mission base will still make coffee runs for the SSGT working in the Comm shop.  A SSgt will still call his buddy who is a Major "Fred" and in the end, Captain Smith will still empty the trash as MSgt Jones holds the lid of the dumpster open for him.  And when we all meet at Burger King for the after party, none of it matters anyway.

You're absolutely right, which is why I don't understand why I got flamed for suggesting that CAP convert everyone to Warrant Officers and only have temporary commissioned rank for those currently holding command positions.

Education level plus time in CAP Service equals to WO1 - CW5. You show progression via your permanent Warrant Grade and the ones actually in charge hold rank so you don't have the visual confusion (to the public at large) of a CPT directing a flock of LTCs.

[PHall]

As much as I am against the implementation of the NCO program in CAP, I do believe completely that it should in no way affect a persons decision to join, quite or not join at all. 

Roles will all overlap regardless of ranks worn.  A Lt Col at a mission base will still make coffee runs for the SSGT working in the Comm shop.  A SSgt will still call his buddy who is a Major "Fred" and in the end, Captain Smith will still empty the trash as MSgt Jones holds the lid of the dumpster open for him.  And when we all meet at Burger King for the after party, none of it matters anyway.

You're absolutely right, which is why I don't understand why I got flamed for suggesting that CAP convert everyone to Warrant Officers and only have temporary commissioned rank for those currently holding command positions.

Education level plus time in CAP Service equals to WO1 - CW5. You show progression via your permanent Warrant Grade and the ones actually in charge hold rank so you don't have the visual confusion (to the public at large) of a CPT directing a flock of LTCs.

Well, considering that the Air Force and CAP have not had Warrant Officers since the 1980's, it might be a tough sell to get the Air Forces approval on this.
Because the Air Force retains control of CAP's grade structure.  AFI 36-2701.

[Eclipse]

portant to CAP's long term viability.

Did you ever consider that a NCO Program may be part of the issue?[/quote]

Yes.  It's not.

[Shuman 14]

As much as I am against the implementation of the NCO program in CAP, I do believe completely that it should in no way affect a persons decision to join, quite or not join at all. 

Roles will all overlap regardless of ranks worn.  A Lt Col at a mission base will still make coffee runs for the SSGT working in the Comm shop.  A SSgt will still call his buddy who is a Major "Fred" and in the end, Captain Smith will still empty the trash as MSgt Jones holds the lid of the dumpster open for him.  And when we all meet at Burger King for the after party, none of it matters anyway.

You're absolutely right, which is why I don't understand why I got flamed for suggesting that CAP convert everyone to Warrant Officers and only have temporary commissioned rank for those currently holding command positions.

Education level plus time in CAP Service equals to WO1 - CW5. You show progression via your permanent Warrant Grade and the ones actually in charge hold rank so you don't have the visual confusion (to the public at large) of a CPT directing a flock of LTCs.

Well, considering that the Air Force and CAP have not had Warrant Officers since the 1980's, it might be a tough sell to get the Air Forces approval on this.
Because the Air Force retains control of CAP's grade structure.  AFI 36-2701.

OK, very valid point.

I will have to review the AFI before I speak on it.

[Shuman 14]

portant to CAP's long term viability.

Did you ever consider that a NCO Program may be part of the issue?

Yes.  It's not.
[/quote]

Zeus has spoken from the mountian again. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Well, considering that the Air Force and CAP have not had Warrant Officers since the 1980's, it might be a tough sell to get the Air Forces approval on this.
Because the Air Force retains control of CAP's grade structure.  AFI 36-2701.

Flamed or not, I support WO's wholeheartedly.

Why?  Because the AF does not have them.  There is absolutely NO way we could be confused with AF personnel.  As well, it could institute a completely different set of promotion requirements for those of us who do not aspire to command.

The AF never fully embraced the WO concept anyway...it was mostly a leftover from USAAF Flight Officers of WWII.

http://www.warrantofficerhistory.org/WO_Prog_Other_Svc.htm#usaf