Vanguard and shipping

[Patterson]

Those on here that are standing up saying they are the best place must be the few that benefit from the overage the rest are paying. This just goes to show what happens when you have the government involved with an exclusive contact for goods, many people pay for the good of a limited few.

Speak plainly, sir.

Did you just accuse me of pocketing members' money?

How exactly am I benefiting from the VG contract to the detriment of the membership?

Serious words, my friend.

Would you care to explain?

Or will you just continue to sharpshoot anonymously?

Ned Lee

Ned I think he was trying to get across that he believes there are just as many CAP Members not getting as great service as those that do.  I know Vanguard has crapped out on me a few times, but the majority of the time it has been positive. Especially now that I can use my business account to ship FEDEX, and get the business shipping rate (about 30% less than through Vanguard)  I am even more pleased.

The only time I was ever really upset was when I found about ten items on the CAP pages on the Vanguard site that sold at a significantly higher price than what the same website was selling the same item for on their Air Force or Army page. That was terrible! 

[Ned]

Ned I think he was trying to get across that he believes there are just as many CAP Members not getting as great service as those that do. 

If that what he means, he can speak for himself. 

But I don't think that is a reasonable interpretation based on his accusation that "the few benefit from the overage the rest are paying" and "many people pay for the good of a limited few."

In my line of work, we are sensitive to allegations of corruption.

The only time I was ever really upset was when I found about ten items on the CAP pages on the Vanguard site that sold at a significantly higher price than what the same website was selling the same item for on their Air Force or Army page. That was terrible!

I agree that that was improper, but they fixed it as soon as it was brought to their attention.  It appears to have been a transition issue as they were standing up the CAP store. 

Now, if Gung Ho would care to respond, I would be interested in what he has to say . . .

[Майор Хаткевич]

I took it to mean that only a few locations are benefiting (Hawk, NESA, NBB), but obviously YMMV.

[Gung Ho]

I took it to mean that only a few locations are benefiting (Hawk, NESA, NBB), but obviously YMMV.

Thats what I mean, it was said before only a very few places were seeing any money from this. So many are paying for the benefit of a few. I never said anybody was getting a kick back but you should jumped pretty quick on that. I don't know where the money is going and that is the point. Sorry I don't waste my time watching the board here so I don't post all day like some do and so I didn't reply quick enough for you.

[Patterson]

Ned I think he was trying to get across that he believes there are just as many CAP Members not getting as great service as those that do. 

If that what he means, he can speak for himself. 

But I don't think that is a reasonable interpretation based on his accusation that "the few benefit from the overage the rest are paying" and "many people pay for the good of a limited few."

In my line of work, we are sensitive to allegations of corruption.

Wow....did not mean to upset you Ned.  I read it as him meaning that the overage the majority pay equates to less others have to pay, both monetarily and in time waiting for a package to arrive. 

I apologize! 

[Major Rob]

What wing? maybe I'm not the only one on here from GLR-OH.

NER-NJ. Got my ship notice not long after making my prior post!

[Ned]

I don't know where the money is going and that is the point.

If that is the case, then perhaps you might consider simply asking the question before making inflammatory statements anonymously accusing our leadership of mismanagement.

Have you asked your wing commander something as simple as "Hey, where is the VG money going?" You could even ask that simple question here, and I'll bet you get the information you seek.

It is not a secret.  The money goes to support regional training facilities like Hawk and  Oshkosh that provide training for thousands of our members.  And all members can apply to attend activities at these terrific facilities.

As in you, me, and every other member of CAP.

[FW]

If you want to know where the vangard money goes, just look at the Minutes of the NEC meetings.  It is located in the Finance Committe report.  As Ned so states.  It's no secret.

[Patterson]

It is not a secret.  The money goes to support regional training facilities like Hawk and  Oshkosh that provide training for thousands of our members.  And all members can apply to attend activities at these terrific facilities.

Legit question any business or military unit must answer at some point..... "is it worth dumping money into the program, location or facility if there is no return on investment".   Not Bashing Hawk MTN, but the attendance was not as high as it has been in previous years, and in fact has been on a decline.  (That is straight from the PA Wing Commander during a conference call).  If attendance is going up at say "NESA" shouldn't the money be shifted to that location from Hawk??

That is true about many things in CAP.  It used to be that if a Squadron does not place enough miles or hours on a Van it goes to a unit that can.  How fair is it that a unit with 73 Cadets can not get a single van, yet a brand new van went to a unit that has 12 Cadets.  According to the equipment lists, the larger Cadet unit should get 2-3 vans, yet they can not get one.  That is something that is more important and relevant in CAP!  Lets improve our fleet before we dump cash into facilities that are not getting used!!

[Larry Mangum]

It is not a secret.  The money goes to support regional training facilities like Hawk and  Oshkosh that provide training for thousands of our members.  And all members can apply to attend activities at these terrific facilities.

Legit question any business or military unit must answer at some point..... "is it worth dumping money into the program, location or facility if there is no return on investment".   Not Bashing Hawk MTN, but the attendance was not as high as it has been in previous years, and in fact has been on a decline.  (That is straight from the PA Wing Commander during a conference call).  If attendance is going up at say "NESA" shouldn't the money be shifted to that location from Hawk??

That is true about many things in CAP.  It used to be that if a Squadron does not place enough miles or hours on a Van it goes to a unit that can.  How fair is it that a unit with 73 Cadets can not get a single van, yet a brand new van went to a unit that has 12 Cadets.  According to the equipment lists, the larger Cadet unit should get 2-3 vans, yet they can not get one.  That is something that is more important and relevant in CAP!  Lets improve our fleet before we dump cash into facilities that are not getting used!!

CAP Corporate vehicles, come from Air force dollars, just like the aircraft, so purchasing additional vehicles with money from Vanguard, would not be allowed.

[Ned]

Legit question any business or military unit must answer at some point.....

Of course these are legitimate questions, and I have been in the room during NB and NEC meetings when our volunteer leaders discuss these factors, as well as others.

While you and I may not personally agree with the specific allocation of funds returned by VG, rest assured that our leaders do carefully consider a number of factors before reaching their decisions.  You can and should express your concerns to your wing commander who will be part of the decision making process.

But they are not just sitting in back rooms tossing darts at the wall.

[Eclipse]

Vehicle (air and ground) issue is not always simple math exercise.

In addition to having the numbers and usage to support it, there has to be one or more people willing to take responsibility, a safe place for it to be stored, a few bucks incidentals, etc.

I recently helped with an SUI at a struggling unit where the CC (slash LGT) was very proud that they had no radios, vehicles, or even a laptop "So we don't have to worry about all those inventories...".

Any unit with 73 cadets likely has someone who would be caretaker for a van, but I have also seen units who took so poor care of their vehicle it was yanked to never come back.

[Gung Ho]

Those places might be all that but none of the cadets from my area can afford to go in the first place. How about spending the money to help them get there? Doesn't do any good to have even a state of the art facility if people can't afford to go. Maybe you guys are from squads that have more money then they know what to do with but we have cadets that find it hard to pay dues so going to even local events is hard to do. Maybe they could spend the money on some events in different states every year and in central part of the state so it's easier for all to go.
Heck cadets don't even get their blues sometimes because there is no money for them at that time. Seem like that would be a bare min. We get cadets to join and tell them they will get a free set of blues and then have to tell them there is no money right now. How do you think that makes them feel?
All I'm saying is only a few get to see the money all are spending to order from a company that to me and what seems like allot of others, don't even seem to care about us. You seem to take this way out of meaning and I can't understand why.

[PHall]

Why do you even tell them they will get a free uniform? You shouldn't promise what you can't deliver.

[Gung Ho]

If they don't put in for the uniform how will they ever get it? As far as I know the cadets are the ones that have to put in for them. How are we suppose to get them to do that without telling them they are free? Should we lye to them and say if they fill that out they might win a lottery and get a free uniform?

[Patterson]

^ Gung Ho....I have my DCC order the FCU's for new cadets at his house, ship them to unit mailing address.  That way we issue them and make sure the Cadet gets his or her new uniform.

Anyway, I do have to conduct fundraisers just to make sure my Cadets get new shoes.  They are not cheap.  I pay $42.50 from AAFES to get them shoes.  Plus the expense of name tags, insignia and such really adds up. 

I will never turn a cadet away from CAP, but I know we are missing out on prospective Cadets who legitimately want (and sometimes need) to join.  They don't because it costs far more than what National shows on the web page. 

[Eclipse]

Anyway, I do have to conduct fundraisers just to make sure my Cadets get new shoes.  They are not cheap.  I pay $42.50 from AAFES to get them shoes.  Plus the expense of name tags, insignia and such really adds up.   

Unnecessary and twice what you should be paying for shoes, which is clearly not the responsibility of the unit or unit staffers.

Shiny Corfams are nice, if you can afford them.  If not, you just wear regular black dress shoes - $20 or less at Target.

[PHall]

The $42.50 at AAFES is for the regular issue leather shoes. Corofams cost more.

[Eclipse]

The $42.50 at AAFES is for the regular issue leather shoes. Corofams cost more.

It could be for shoes with a goldfish in the heel - still too much for shoes only worn a couple times a month and likely outgrown in less than a year.

[arajca]

The problem with most of the black dress shoes I've seen at Target, Wal-Mart, etc is they do not have a plain toe. Here's another inexpensive option - Black dress shoe. $25.